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RE: [z_scale] Re: Amps

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  • Paul Hertel
    Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the voltage as I m working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery. Last night I had
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 1, 2004
      Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the voltage
      as I'm
      working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery.
      Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V battery
      made the insides glow nicely.
      Then the tell tail smell of burnt electronics!
      Maybe I'll have to get the voltage regulator from ZTrack. I was hoping for
      a cheaper alternative.

      Thankz again!

      Paul

      _____

      From: Kari Sarmanne [mailto:kaikari@...]
      Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:48 AM
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [z_scale] Re: Amps


      Paul,

      My smallest Marklin loco 0-6-0 BR89 with
      a 5-pole motor needs only 2.5 - 3 volts to
      run at a moderate speed. Over 3 volts it starts
      running too fast and 8 volts makes it to run
      like a bullet train.
      It takes only about 150 - 200 mA.
      I think it is quite the same with other locos too.
      With max voltage 8 or 10 volts all locos run
      too fast. I guess no loco takes over 400 mA.
      Maybe somebody else knows better.

      CheerZ
      Kari S.
      Helsinki/Finland


      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...> wrote:
      > How much voltage and Amps can a loco motor take?
      > How about a 5 POL?
      >
      > Thanks all.
      >
      > Happy Z'ing
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > Car A
      > Midwezt Haulerz
      > Belleville, IL



      "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!




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    • Patrick Tighe
      The problem may be that you used a potentiometer under rated for the power, possibly 1/2W. 200mA at 9V is 1.8 watts and at 400mA, 3.6 watts. These are just
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 1, 2004
        The problem may be that you used a potentiometer under rated for the
        power, possibly 1/2W. 200mA at 9V is 1.8 watts and at 400mA, 3.6
        watts. These are just guidelines. Starting and/or locked rotor
        current can be quite a bit higher. Try a pot rated at 2W or better
        yet 5W. That's a cheaper alternative.

        Patrick

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...>
        wrote:
        > Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the
        voltage
        > as I'm
        > working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery.
        > Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V
        battery
        > made the insides glow nicely.
        > Then the tell tail smell of burnt electronics!
        > Maybe I'll have to get the voltage regulator from ZTrack. I was
        hoping for
        > a cheaper alternative.
        >
        > Thankz again!
        >
        > Paul
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: Kari Sarmanne [mailto:kaikari@l...]
        > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:48 AM
        > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [z_scale] Re: Amps
        >
        >
        > Paul,
        >
        > My smallest Marklin loco 0-6-0 BR89 with
        > a 5-pole motor needs only 2.5 - 3 volts to
        > run at a moderate speed. Over 3 volts it starts
        > running too fast and 8 volts makes it to run
        > like a bullet train.
        > It takes only about 150 - 200 mA.
        > I think it is quite the same with other locos too.
        > With max voltage 8 or 10 volts all locos run
        > too fast. I guess no loco takes over 400 mA.
        > Maybe somebody else knows better.
        >
        > CheerZ
        > Kari S.
        > Helsinki/Finland
        >
        >
        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...>
        wrote:
        > > How much voltage and Amps can a loco motor take?
        > > How about a 5 POL?
        > >
        > > Thanks all.
        > >
        > > Happy Z'ing
        > >
        > > Paul
        > >
        > > Car A
        > > Midwezt Haulerz
        > > Belleville, IL
        >
        >
        >
        > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in
        Small DoseZ!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bamksq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011
        76/D=gr
        >
        oups/S=1706533816:HM/EXP=1088750944/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http
        ://comp
        > anion.yahoo.com> click here
        >
        > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
        M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
        > :HM/A=2128215/rand=152748992>
        >
        > _____
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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        >
        >
        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        >
        >
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        Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kari Sarmanne
        Take a look at the following page: http://www.fr-model.de/english/information_scratch_battery.htm You can use a 0.4 W potentiometer with the LM317T regulator.
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 1, 2004
          Take a look at the following page:

          http://www.fr-model.de/english/information_scratch_battery.htm

          You can use a 0.4 W potentiometer with the LM317T regulator.

          I have built some battery power packs using a 0.4 W potentiometer
          and a transistor ( BD244C ). They work just fine.

          Without a regulator or transistor you must have at
          least a 4 W potentiometer, but I do not recommend it.

          I have built two cigar box layouts, but I have not put
          the 9 V battery in the box. I just have a connection to
          a battery power pack or to 230 V power pack.

          Kari S.

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...> wrote:
          > Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the
          voltage
          > as I'm
          > working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery.
          > Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V
          battery
          > made the insides glow nicely.
          > Then the tell tail smell of burnt electronics!
          > Maybe I'll have to get the voltage regulator from ZTrack. I was
          hoping for
          > a cheaper alternative.
          >
          > Thankz again!
          >
          > Paul
        • Glen Chenier
          ... wrote: ... Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V ... Sorry for the delayed response, have just been browsing recent messages
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 5, 2004
            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Kari Sarmanne" <kaikari@l...> wrote:
            > I have built some battery power packs using a 0.4 W potentiometer
            > and a transistor ( BD244C ). They work just fine.
            >
            > Without a regulator or transistor you must have at
            > least a 4 W potentiometer, but I do not recommend it.

            > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...>
            wrote:
            ...> > Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer.
            A 9V
            > battery
            > > made the insides glow nicely.


            Sorry for the delayed response, have just been browsing recent
            messages and came upon this one.

            A resistor (potentiometer) voltage control is fine for a layout with
            no changes in load - ie flat landscape. If there are grades on your
            layout, the regulated voltage option (transistor) will maintain a
            more constant train speed.

            When using a 4 watt (or more) variable resistance (potentiometer) go
            for at least 50 ohms, better 75-100 ohms. Use only 2 terminals in
            series with the track. Some uses of a potentiometer use all 3
            terminals where the ends of the resistance terminals are placed
            across the power source and the variable voltage is taken from the
            central wiper contact. This is not required for locomotive speed
            control and will waste battery life un-neccessarily if all 3
            terminals are used since battery current is drawn through the
            potentiometer and does no useful work.

            If you have grades on your cigar box layout the regulated voltage
            circuit helps to keep the speed more constant. The transistor
            regulator maintains a constant voltage to the locomotive by
            constantly self-adjusting it's electrical resistance to compensate
            for variations in current demand by the loco (it measures it's own
            output voltage and adjusts itself to keep this voltage at a constant
            level). A fixed resistance (potentiometer) instead without this self-
            monitoring feature will drop more voltage as the loco current demand
            increases to climb a grade, this results in even less current
            available and the loco slows even more. If drastic speed changes are
            the desired effect, then go for the resistor approach. If you wish
            to maintain a more constant speed, use the transistor regulator.

            BTW, the simplest form of regulated voltage adjustment is a series
            string of silicon rectifier diodes, about 10 cents each if bought in
            bulk, like a pack of 25. Unlike a resistance, each diode in it's
            forward conduction polarity drops a constant 0.7 volts regardless of
            the current through it. A battery is already voltage regulated other
            then a small internal resistance and gradually decreasing voltage as
            it is used. Any common silicon diode rated for 1 amp or more is
            suitable - 1N4001, 1N4002, 1N4003, 1N4004 etc. Ten in series will
            drop 7 volts for minimum speed (2 volts left for the loco from the 9
            volt battery), 5 in series drop 3.5 volts (5.5 volts left over for
            the loco) etc. An alligator clip wire can be used to select how many
            diodes are electrically in the string. If you want to get fancy you
            can connect each diode wire connection to a screw, a series of screws
            in the back of the cigar box let you select speed with the alligator
            clip. As the battery ages move the clip to the next screw. Not
            elegant, but for a small layout with grades this is the simplest form
            of constant voltage supply.

            Another use for diodes proposed and tested by Cliff Travis - series
            diodes used on a helix in the downhill polarity help maintain the
            speed so the same throttle setting results in the same speed both up
            and down. Neat idea.
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