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Re: Amps

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  • Kari Sarmanne
    Paul, My smallest Marklin loco 0-6-0 BR89 with a 5-pole motor needs only 2.5 - 3 volts to run at a moderate speed. Over 3 volts it starts running too fast and
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 30, 2004
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      Paul,

      My smallest Marklin loco 0-6-0 BR89 with
      a 5-pole motor needs only 2.5 - 3 volts to
      run at a moderate speed. Over 3 volts it starts
      running too fast and 8 volts makes it to run
      like a bullet train.
      It takes only about 150 - 200 mA.
      I think it is quite the same with other locos too.
      With max voltage 8 or 10 volts all locos run
      too fast. I guess no loco takes over 400 mA.
      Maybe somebody else knows better.

      CheerZ
      Kari S.
      Helsinki/Finland


      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...> wrote:
      > How much voltage and Amps can a loco motor take?
      > How about a 5 POL?
      >
      > Thanks all.
      >
      > Happy Z'ing
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > Car A
      > Midwezt Haulerz
      > Belleville, IL
    • Paul Hertel
      Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the voltage as I m working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery. Last night I had
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 1, 2004
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        Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the voltage
        as I'm
        working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery.
        Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V battery
        made the insides glow nicely.
        Then the tell tail smell of burnt electronics!
        Maybe I'll have to get the voltage regulator from ZTrack. I was hoping for
        a cheaper alternative.

        Thankz again!

        Paul

        _____

        From: Kari Sarmanne [mailto:kaikari@...]
        Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:48 AM
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [z_scale] Re: Amps


        Paul,

        My smallest Marklin loco 0-6-0 BR89 with
        a 5-pole motor needs only 2.5 - 3 volts to
        run at a moderate speed. Over 3 volts it starts
        running too fast and 8 volts makes it to run
        like a bullet train.
        It takes only about 150 - 200 mA.
        I think it is quite the same with other locos too.
        With max voltage 8 or 10 volts all locos run
        too fast. I guess no loco takes over 400 mA.
        Maybe somebody else knows better.

        CheerZ
        Kari S.
        Helsinki/Finland


        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...> wrote:
        > How much voltage and Amps can a loco motor take?
        > How about a 5 POL?
        >
        > Thanks all.
        >
        > Happy Z'ing
        >
        > Paul
        >
        > Car A
        > Midwezt Haulerz
        > Belleville, IL



        "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!




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      • Patrick Tighe
        The problem may be that you used a potentiometer under rated for the power, possibly 1/2W. 200mA at 9V is 1.8 watts and at 400mA, 3.6 watts. These are just
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 1, 2004
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          The problem may be that you used a potentiometer under rated for the
          power, possibly 1/2W. 200mA at 9V is 1.8 watts and at 400mA, 3.6
          watts. These are just guidelines. Starting and/or locked rotor
          current can be quite a bit higher. Try a pot rated at 2W or better
          yet 5W. That's a cheaper alternative.

          Patrick

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...>
          wrote:
          > Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the
          voltage
          > as I'm
          > working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery.
          > Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V
          battery
          > made the insides glow nicely.
          > Then the tell tail smell of burnt electronics!
          > Maybe I'll have to get the voltage regulator from ZTrack. I was
          hoping for
          > a cheaper alternative.
          >
          > Thankz again!
          >
          > Paul
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: Kari Sarmanne [mailto:kaikari@l...]
          > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:48 AM
          > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [z_scale] Re: Amps
          >
          >
          > Paul,
          >
          > My smallest Marklin loco 0-6-0 BR89 with
          > a 5-pole motor needs only 2.5 - 3 volts to
          > run at a moderate speed. Over 3 volts it starts
          > running too fast and 8 volts makes it to run
          > like a bullet train.
          > It takes only about 150 - 200 mA.
          > I think it is quite the same with other locos too.
          > With max voltage 8 or 10 volts all locos run
          > too fast. I guess no loco takes over 400 mA.
          > Maybe somebody else knows better.
          >
          > CheerZ
          > Kari S.
          > Helsinki/Finland
          >
          >
          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...>
          wrote:
          > > How much voltage and Amps can a loco motor take?
          > > How about a 5 POL?
          > >
          > > Thanks all.
          > >
          > > Happy Z'ing
          > >
          > > Paul
          > >
          > > Car A
          > > Midwezt Haulerz
          > > Belleville, IL
          >
          >
          >
          > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in
          Small DoseZ!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bamksq/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011
          76/D=gr
          >
          oups/S=1706533816:HM/EXP=1088750944/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http
          ://comp
          > anion.yahoo.com> click here
          >
          > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
          M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
          > :HM/A=2128215/rand=152748992>
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          >
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          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kari Sarmanne
          Take a look at the following page: http://www.fr-model.de/english/information_scratch_battery.htm You can use a 0.4 W potentiometer with the LM317T regulator.
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 1, 2004
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            Take a look at the following page:

            http://www.fr-model.de/english/information_scratch_battery.htm

            You can use a 0.4 W potentiometer with the LM317T regulator.

            I have built some battery power packs using a 0.4 W potentiometer
            and a transistor ( BD244C ). They work just fine.

            Without a regulator or transistor you must have at
            least a 4 W potentiometer, but I do not recommend it.

            I have built two cigar box layouts, but I have not put
            the 9 V battery in the box. I just have a connection to
            a battery power pack or to 230 V power pack.

            Kari S.

            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...> wrote:
            > Thankz. I was think the amps were pretty small. I know about the
            voltage
            > as I'm
            > working on a cigar box layout to be run with a 9V battery.
            > Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V
            battery
            > made the insides glow nicely.
            > Then the tell tail smell of burnt electronics!
            > Maybe I'll have to get the voltage regulator from ZTrack. I was
            hoping for
            > a cheaper alternative.
            >
            > Thankz again!
            >
            > Paul
          • Glen Chenier
            ... wrote: ... Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer. A 9V ... Sorry for the delayed response, have just been browsing recent messages
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 5, 2004
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              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Kari Sarmanne" <kaikari@l...> wrote:
              > I have built some battery power packs using a 0.4 W potentiometer
              > and a transistor ( BD244C ). They work just fine.
              >
              > Without a regulator or transistor you must have at
              > least a 4 W potentiometer, but I do not recommend it.

              > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hertel" <paulhertel@c...>
              wrote:
              ...> > Last night I had the pleasure of burning up a potentiometer.
              A 9V
              > battery
              > > made the insides glow nicely.


              Sorry for the delayed response, have just been browsing recent
              messages and came upon this one.

              A resistor (potentiometer) voltage control is fine for a layout with
              no changes in load - ie flat landscape. If there are grades on your
              layout, the regulated voltage option (transistor) will maintain a
              more constant train speed.

              When using a 4 watt (or more) variable resistance (potentiometer) go
              for at least 50 ohms, better 75-100 ohms. Use only 2 terminals in
              series with the track. Some uses of a potentiometer use all 3
              terminals where the ends of the resistance terminals are placed
              across the power source and the variable voltage is taken from the
              central wiper contact. This is not required for locomotive speed
              control and will waste battery life un-neccessarily if all 3
              terminals are used since battery current is drawn through the
              potentiometer and does no useful work.

              If you have grades on your cigar box layout the regulated voltage
              circuit helps to keep the speed more constant. The transistor
              regulator maintains a constant voltage to the locomotive by
              constantly self-adjusting it's electrical resistance to compensate
              for variations in current demand by the loco (it measures it's own
              output voltage and adjusts itself to keep this voltage at a constant
              level). A fixed resistance (potentiometer) instead without this self-
              monitoring feature will drop more voltage as the loco current demand
              increases to climb a grade, this results in even less current
              available and the loco slows even more. If drastic speed changes are
              the desired effect, then go for the resistor approach. If you wish
              to maintain a more constant speed, use the transistor regulator.

              BTW, the simplest form of regulated voltage adjustment is a series
              string of silicon rectifier diodes, about 10 cents each if bought in
              bulk, like a pack of 25. Unlike a resistance, each diode in it's
              forward conduction polarity drops a constant 0.7 volts regardless of
              the current through it. A battery is already voltage regulated other
              then a small internal resistance and gradually decreasing voltage as
              it is used. Any common silicon diode rated for 1 amp or more is
              suitable - 1N4001, 1N4002, 1N4003, 1N4004 etc. Ten in series will
              drop 7 volts for minimum speed (2 volts left for the loco from the 9
              volt battery), 5 in series drop 3.5 volts (5.5 volts left over for
              the loco) etc. An alligator clip wire can be used to select how many
              diodes are electrically in the string. If you want to get fancy you
              can connect each diode wire connection to a screw, a series of screws
              in the back of the cigar box let you select speed with the alligator
              clip. As the battery ages move the clip to the next screw. Not
              elegant, but for a small layout with grades this is the simplest form
              of constant voltage supply.

              Another use for diodes proposed and tested by Cliff Travis - series
              diodes used on a helix in the downhill polarity help maintain the
              speed so the same throttle setting results in the same speed both up
              and down. Neat idea.
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