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Re: [z_scale] uhlenbrock?

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  • jager6863
    Hi David, I ve been considering using the Intellibox for my Z-scale layout as well as my Marklin HO Christmas layout. I want to go digital, however I don t
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2003
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      Hi David,

      I've been considering using the Intellibox for my Z-scale layout as well as
      my Marklin HO Christmas layout. I want to go digital, however I don't want
      to own two different systems. This what I have dsicovered;

      The smallest decoders for Z-scale are made by MUT/Digirail. These are the
      same decoders available installed by Schmidt in Z-scale locomotives.
      MUT/Digirail only uses the Selectrix (Trix) digital system which is not
      compatiable with DCC or Marklin Motorola format.

      The Intellibox works with DCC, Marklin Motorola Format 1 and 2 and Selectrix
      decoders, plus others. The Intellibox needs 16volts of input power, usually
      supplied by a Marklin 6001 transformer. This is great for Marklin HO, but
      for Z-scale you need to do something different. I have been told that you
      can use the Intellibox for Z-scale by using the "N-scale" setting and then
      routing this to a Lenz LV101 booster which will limit (or boost?) the
      voltage to around 10 volts, perfect for Z-scale. Keep in mind that I haven't
      tried this, only been told that it will work.

      Hopefully this information is correct, if not I'd love to hear additional
      comments from members of the list.

      Thanks,

      Kevin
    • stacyeisenmann
      I am purchasing a Uhlenbrock 6500 intellibox setup for my marklin 3 rail ho set, and it states it is compatible with all formats including dcc...Question is,
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 2, 2003
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        I am purchasing a Uhlenbrock 6500 intellibox setup for my marklin 3
        rail ho set, and it states it is compatible with all formats including
        dcc...Question is, if I want to go digital with my z layout (and I
        do)..anyone have an idea if the system can be used on z. I am
        quessing the only issues are compatablility and current output for the
        smaller engines.

        The system states it's compatible with lenz, selectrix, digitrax,
        marklin, etc 2 rail or 3 rail. The new version also contols all of
        your switches. Seems pretty enticing if I can switch between marklin
        digital and z digital with the same controller.

        Any thoughts or comments.

        David Eisenmann
      • Manfred Geister
        Hi David! As you already mentioned, the main problems of all H0-digitalsets are output frequency(!!!) and output voltage, which is always at the maximum of
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 2, 2003
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          Hi David!

          As you already mentioned, the main problems of all H0-digitalsets are
          output frequency(!!!) and output voltage, which is always at the
          maximum of about 16 Volt. So therefore (here in Europe) we all don't
          use H0-Sets. It's definitly destroying the motors of your Z-locos!
          Z-locos should not be used with more than 10 Volt! Some of my friends
          tried to use a different (means lower-voltage) power supply for the
          controlbox, but the result was, that there have still been some
          problems left frequency, ...). I'm sorry for you, having no better
          informations,

          yours,

          Manfred (Austria, Europe)



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "stacyeisenmann" <stacyeisenmann@...>
          To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:23 AM
          Subject: [z_scale] uhlenbrock?


          I am purchasing a Uhlenbrock 6500 intellibox setup for my marklin 3
          rail ho set, and it states it is compatible with all formats including
          dcc...Question is, if I want to go digital with my z layout (and I
          do)..anyone have an idea if the system can be used on z. I am
          quessing the only issues are compatablility and current output for the
          smaller engines.

          The system states it's compatible with lenz, selectrix, digitrax,
          marklin, etc 2 rail or 3 rail. The new version also contols all of
          your switches. Seems pretty enticing if I can switch between marklin
          digital and z digital with the same controller.

          Any thoughts or comments.

          David Eisenmann
        • Peter Ibbotson
          I notice that Mut (www.muet-gmbh.de) controller has a Z scale option. I can t figure out what the actual difference is from their website, perhaps someone with
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 3, 2003
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            I notice that Mut (www.muet-gmbh.de) controller has a Z scale option. I
            can't figure out what the actual difference is from their website, perhaps
            someone with better german can confirm (I assume it's voltage) Personally
            I'm getting tempted to go down the Selectrix route, but merg
            (www.merg.org.uk) here in the UK have self build DCC controllers which I
            quite like the idea of and changing the voltage is easy if you have the
            circuit diagram. Merg also have their meetings local to me so I might be
            able to get some help with making drop in PCBs for the larger diesels. Also
            CT Elektronik (www.tran.at) are threating to make even smaller decoders than
            the DCX74 (and they seem Z friendly).
            Unhlenbrook do however have some of their manuals in English and have an
            active support group on yahoo.
            Since at the moment I'm not in a position to go digital (Moving house some
            time soon, so I'll wait until I do a new layout) I'm sitting back and
            waiting however the whole digital arena for Z folks is still up in the air,
            particularly as PIC seem to have some very slim packaging which should
            shrink the next generation of DCC decoders.

            --
            Work peteri@... | remove magic word .org to reply
            Home peter@... | I own the domain but theres no MX
          • kurtulueck@aol.com
            Wow! Much traffic on the DCC list! DCC can be used on Z scale - the frequency is not the problem with the control unit or the boosters, because this is a kind
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 3, 2003
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              Wow! Much traffic on the DCC list!

              DCC can be used on Z scale - the frequency is not the problem with the
              control unit or the boosters, because this is a kind of standard at NMRA DCC Systems
              like Lenz, Digitrax,... and Uhlenbrock. Frequency is an issue of the used
              decoder and types of motors in your s Z scale equipment. Standard decoder using
              relative low frequency PWM may cause damage to Faulhaber motors, normal 3 or 5
              pole motors should be OK with them. Most of the modern small DCC decoder
              provide high frequency PWM to the motor and so they are also suitable to Faulhaber
              and similar motors.

              The really important issue is the current. This needs to be limited! A 12 V
              supply to my Lenz systems provides about 10V to the motor. This has been proven
              due to several sessions on the Red Rock Railroad - the last took 7 hours more
              or less continous operation.

              Try to limit the input current at your Intellibox as low as possible - just
              do a test with a standard train transformer connected to the Intellibox. Put a
              voltmeter at the output of the transformer and start at full throttle. Then
              turn the voltage down until the Intellibox quits. So yo will know what is
              feasible. Then measure the voltage at the track at minimum input voltage. If it is
              just between 10V and 11 V you are OK.

              Good luck

              Kurt

              The Redrock Railroad - Home of the Desert Hog
              http://hometown.aol.de/redrockrail/index.html


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • stacyeisenmann
              Kevin, Thanks for the input. What you recommend sounds familiar in conversations I ve have months ago. I haven t committed to a z scale digital format yet,
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 3, 2003
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                Kevin,
                Thanks for the input. What you recommend sounds familiar in
                conversations I've have months ago. I haven't committed to a z scale
                digital format yet, but I've gone with uhlenbrock decoders for the ho
                christmas set.

                The intellibox is enticing because of the 'one box' solution that's
                convenient, upgradeable, and pretty. It's route controller functions
                are enticing too. I am purchasing it mainly because for the ho sets,
                I can run either trix 2 rail, markling 3 rail or whatever and run on
                the same layout (this is nice). At nearly $500, I only want to buy
                one system that works with Z too.

                thanks,
                david

                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jager6863" <jager6863@s...> wrote:
                > Hi David,
                >
                > I've been considering using the Intellibox for my Z-scale layout as
                well as
                > my Marklin HO Christmas layout. I want to go digital, however I
                don't want
                > to own two different systems. This what I have dsicovered;
                >
                > The smallest decoders for Z-scale are made by MUT/Digirail. These
                are the
                > same decoders available installed by Schmidt in Z-scale locomotives.
                > MUT/Digirail only uses the Selectrix (Trix) digital system which is not
                > compatiable with DCC or Marklin Motorola format.
                >
                > The Intellibox works with DCC, Marklin Motorola Format 1 and 2 and
                Selectrix
                > decoders, plus others. The Intellibox needs 16volts of input power,
                usually
                > supplied by a Marklin 6001 transformer. This is great for Marklin
                HO, but
                > for Z-scale you need to do something different. I have been told
                that you
                > can use the Intellibox for Z-scale by using the "N-scale" setting
                and then
                > routing this to a Lenz LV101 booster which will limit (or boost?) the
                > voltage to around 10 volts, perfect for Z-scale. Keep in mind that I
                haven't
                > tried this, only been told that it will work.
                >
                > Hopefully this inf
                ormation is correct, if not I'd love to hear additional
                > comments from members of the list.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Kevin
              • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
                ... It would seem to me that you could just alter the speed table in the decoder in order to limit the voltage. 16 volts on a Z dcc system shouldn t be an
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 3, 2003
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                  >which will limit (or boost?) the
                  >voltage to around 10 volts, perfect for Z-scale

                  It would seem to me that you could just alter the "speed table" in the
                  decoder in order to limit the voltage. 16 volts on a Z dcc system
                  shouldn't be an issue, as the decoder gets the current, not the locomotive.
                  The loco only gets juice delivered from the decoder.

                  T
                • Robert Allbritton
                  Ted, Yes and no - don t forget that almost all DCC decoders use pulse power to *simulate* the desired voltage. If you feed your rails 16 volts, then you Z
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 3, 2003
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                    Ted,

                    Yes and no - don't forget that almost all DCC decoders use pulse power
                    to *simulate* the desired voltage. If you feed your rails 16 volts, then
                    you Z Scale loco is going to get 16 Volt pulses (albeit very quickly)
                    and that builds up heat awful fast.

                    I have had best results when I lower the entire DCC system's voltage to
                    10 volts. Most DCC systems still work fine, and I can lower the voltage
                    at the power supply level. It is a fairly easy solution.

                    Best,
                    -Rob

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: ted_lamar@... [mailto:ted_lamar@...]
                    Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:12 PM
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [z_scale] uhlenbrock?


                    >which will limit (or boost?) the
                    >voltage to around 10 volts, perfect for Z-scale

                    It would seem to me that you could just alter the "speed table" in the
                    decoder in order to limit the voltage. 16 volts on a Z dcc system
                    shouldn't be an issue, as the decoder gets the current, not the
                    locomotive.
                    The loco only gets juice delivered from the decoder.

                    T






                    "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
                    DoseZ!


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                  • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
                    ... Right!! Thanks - I remember that now. I ve never had to pay attention with my HO gear. :) Thanks, Rob! T
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 3, 2003
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                      >Dont forget that almost all DCC decoders use pulse power
                      >to *simulate* the desired voltage. If you feed your rails 16 volts, then
                      >you Z Scale loco is going to get 16 Volt pulses

                      Right!! Thanks - I remember that now. I've never had to pay attention
                      with my HO gear. :)

                      Thanks, Rob!

                      T
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