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Re: [z_scale] Very poor running.

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  • dpstripe@aol.com
    In a message dated 5/14/03 10:03:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Well, you could try a gagemaster electronic rail cleaner , available from Glenn and Sandy
    Message 1 of 7 , May 14, 2003
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      In a message dated 5/14/03 10:03:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      terryrowsell@... writes:

      > My two Z scale locos are Markln and for all intents and purposes 0-4-
      > 0 locos electrically which is itself frustrating.
      >
      > I am at the end of my rope! Is there something I am missing???
      >
      > I have had years without ANY of these worries in N scale.
      >
      > TERRY
      >

      Well, you could try a gagemaster "electronic rail cleaner", available from
      Glenn and Sandy Stiska. Also, I have found that if I solder leads to every
      couple of feet of track that my locos run much better. The Z rail joiners are
      very easily damaged and spread. Also, check the electrical contacts at the
      frogs of your turnouts, sometimes they can ground out even when the loco
      isn't near them. I discovered this by accident when I touched my layout near
      a turn out, and my engine stopped 5 inches from the turnout. The multiple
      power taps definately helps, though.

      Dan S.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kurtulueck@aol.com
      Hi Terry, I had a similar situation last year when I went the first time after the rebuild of my Red Rock Railroad to the local train show. As I am now about
      Message 2 of 7 , May 15, 2003
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        Hi Terry,

        I had a similar situation last year when I went the first time after the
        rebuild of my Red Rock Railroad to the local train show. As I am now about 20
        years in Z I had expirienced several contact issues, but had never seen a
        desaster like that just at that public show. The show was Saturday and Sunday
        and I finished the build up of the layout at about midnight from Friday to
        Saturday.

        The layout is wired for DCC and I wanted to show DCC on Z scale that show -
        BUT I was not able to run a single loco on the layout. I used SR24 or Trix
        fluid (a thin cleaning oil, probably similar to the Wahle oil, SR24 is sold
        as cleaning fluid for ultrasonic cleaners too) as usual with no big success.
        I used Jörger cleaner - no big success. Running DCC was impossible.
        Absolutely depressed I went to sleep for a few hours - I coul not solve that
        problem.

        The next morning I went to the drug store and asked for something mild
        (aggressive) stuff to clean my rails. I first thought tooth paste for smokers
        could be a solution, but they recommended a fluid used to polish brass. The
        strain show started just when I came back from the drug store and I had to
        start the show - I used 3 (three) MTL F7 coupled together and ran analog to
        bring my train through! But something was running.

        Then I started polishing the rails with the brass cleaner and the rag
        wasbecoming REALLY DIRTY. It turned to a dark green to black colour and the
        train ran perfectly on the already cleaned tracks even with a single engine!
        After the brass cleaner I used my standard cleaning method and I was able to
        run DCC later at the show.

        What happend? On ballasting and scenery making I used a lot of white glue
        which remained as a hard layer on the track which could not be removed with
        normal cleaning procedure. Probably something similar happend to your layout.
        I would recommend to try this one. Of course the general electric feeders
        should be installed correctly, but that shouldn't be the issue for an
        expirienced N scaler I believe.

        Don't use any grinding paper on your tracks, this will make the surface of
        the rails rough and again more difficult to clean.

        If Z scales is properly cleaned it runs very well, similar to N and nearly
        similar to H0. I have seen N and H0 layouts which were running really poor.
        So it is not a question of scale.

        The locomotive itself should be inspected either. Cleaning the engine with
        SR24 and relubing (very carefully) should provide you an excellent engine.
        Try your engine with two wires to the wheels - if it is easyly running the
        engine will be ok. If you see dirt at the wheels remove it.

        Hope you will get back to Z track and enjoy!

        Highball

        Kurt

        The Redrock Railroad - Home of the Desert Hog
        http://hometown.aol.de/redrockrail/index.html


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ralph.Scott
        Hi I just thought that I would add that Marklin say leave 0.1mm between the track pin head and the track tie (see their track pin instructions). Also if you
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 1, 2003
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          Hi
          I just thought that I would add that Marklin say leave 0.1mm between the track pin head and the track tie (see their track pin instructions). Also if you use longer pins you are more likely to increase the possibility of not hitting them in perfectly straight causing some degree of rail missalignment. I have been guilty of this and have always had to redo the affected area! -especially where S curves are involved.
          regards Ralph.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Reynard Wellman
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 5:42 PM
          Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Very poor running.


          Hello ELF

          I found out a long time ago that Z track is real sensitive to
          the slightest incursions, misalignments, off cambers,
          "S" curves and white glue. Marklin track works excellent right out
          of the box because basically we haven't interfered with
          it much when we first play with it. Take a new track set,
          connect it together and everything will work fine but
          once you start pinning it down, adding ballast and
          warping it to fit your track plan things can get pretty bad.

          Keeping the track somewhat loose and coplanar helps
          tremendously and I now pin my track down on the outside
          of the ties.

          On Sunday, June 1, 2003, at 12:12 AM, rohirrim98236 wrote:
          Edited For Length>
          >
          > I proceeded to remove ALL the nails (track was already held
          > in place by ballast and glue), and some of the problems
          > cleared up right away.
          >
          > Just a bit of experience which might be of help to you, or
          > someone.
          >
          > ELF
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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        • bill.foote
          One possible way of avoiding this problem is to drill holes through the ties(sleepers) and into the baseboard (very necessary if you have a fairly hard
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 1, 2003
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            One possible way of avoiding this problem is to drill holes through the
            ties(sleepers) and into the baseboard (very necessary if you have a fairly
            hard material for a baseboard anyhow) - drill to a depth that just allows
            the end of track pins to "bite" into the baseboard, using a drill that is
            what I would describe as "barely clearance" for the track pins

            Well that is how I did it on my most recent layout, and it seems to work

            As ever, use as few pins as possible

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "rohirrim98236" <rohirrim@...>
            To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:12 AM
            Subject: [z_scale] Re: Very poor running.


            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Terry J.N. Rowsell" <terryrowsell@y...> wr=
            ote:
            > Hi.
            >
            > I am at the point where all of my track is layed on my Z scale layout
            > and the scenery is coming along.
            > BUT I can never ever ever get my little locos to run around once
            > without stopping.
            > My two Z scale locos are Markln and for all intents and purposes 0-4-
            > 0 locos electrically which is itself frustrating.
            > I am at the end of my rope!


            [I am just back and catching up on a few weeks
            of emails, so please forgive the `step backwards".]

            I too had been suffering from a very similar experience
            (especially the rope part!). My two locos are Märklin
            8895 (five pole 2-6-0) and Märklin 8899 (three pole 4-6-0)
            steamers.

            I had the good fortune, a couple of weeks ago, of taking my
            locos to Terry Sutfin's house and running them on the
            Poorville and Debt City. They ran fine -- smooth, no
            hesitation and well at slow speeds. He graciously lent me
            a few of his (4 axle and 6 axle Märklin Diesel and
            Electrics) to try on my layout. Because of the much longer
            wheel base I was able to `see' problems in the track
            which were not apparent otherwise.

            Terry also questioned me about my tack nails. I was sure
            they had not been put in too deeply (which I could verify
            with an optivisor!), but he wondered if the tight fit in the
            molded-in hole might still create enough friction to cause
            just enough binding [leteral movement of the rail heads]
            to be a problem. (This guess was prompted by the fact that
            the locos run very well on the two sections on Faller bridges
            where NO nails had been used.)

            I proceeded to remove ALL the nails (track was already held
            in place by ballast and glue), and some of the problems
            cleared up right away.

            Just a bit of experience which might be of help to you, or
            someone.

            ELF




            "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


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          • Ralph.Scott
            On one of my earlier layouts I layed 1.5mm cork then added track withith the occassional pin partly driven in to hold the track in place then added catenary
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 1, 2003
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              On one of my earlier layouts I layed 1.5mm cork then added track withith the occassional pin partly driven in to hold the track in place then added catenary supports and then the ballast material followed by diluted pva glue. This was fine until usage caused some ballast particles to come loose and get caught up in the locos' gears.
              This time I layed the cork but spray painted it with a thick coat of Plasti cote Fleck Stone. Then just before the paint was completely dry partialy pinned the track inplace and weighted it down until the paint dried and hardened. Then removed most of the track pins and near- homed the remaining few pins. The flek paint looks very like ballast and comes in different shades of granite from pink-brown through to grey -black.. it is also easy to clean.
              I have some photos but I am not quite sure how or where to post them or what size they should be
              Ralph.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: bill.foote
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:19 PM
              Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Very poor running.


              One possible way of avoiding this problem is to drill holes through the
              ties(sleepers) and into the baseboard (very necessary if you have a fairly
              hard material for a baseboard anyhow) - drill to a depth that just allows
              the end of track pins to "bite" into the baseboard, using a drill that is
              what I would describe as "barely clearance" for the track pins

              Well that is how I did it on my most recent layout, and it seems to work

              As ever, use as few pins as possible

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "rohirrim98236" <rohirrim@...>
              To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:12 AM
              Subject: [z_scale] Re: Very poor running.


              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Terry J.N. Rowsell" <terryrowsell@y...> wr=
              ote:
              > Hi.
              >
              > I am at the point where all of my track is layed on my Z scale layout
              > and the scenery is coming along.
              > BUT I can never ever ever get my little locos to run around once
              > without stopping.
              > My two Z scale locos are Markln and for all intents and purposes 0-4-
              > 0 locos electrically which is itself frustrating.
              > I am at the end of my rope!


              [I am just back and catching up on a few weeks
              of emails, so please forgive the `step backwards".]

              I too had been suffering from a very similar experience
              (especially the rope part!). My two locos are Märklin
              8895 (five pole 2-6-0) and Märklin 8899 (three pole 4-6-0)
              steamers.

              I had the good fortune, a couple of weeks ago, of taking my
              locos to Terry Sutfin's house and running them on the
              Poorville and Debt City. They ran fine -- smooth, no
              hesitation and well at slow speeds. He graciously lent me
              a few of his (4 axle and 6 axle Märklin Diesel and
              Electrics) to try on my layout. Because of the much longer
              wheel base I was able to `see' problems in the track
              which were not apparent otherwise.

              Terry also questioned me about my tack nails. I was sure
              they had not been put in too deeply (which I could verify
              with an optivisor!), but he wondered if the tight fit in the
              molded-in hole might still create enough friction to cause
              just enough binding [leteral movement of the rail heads]
              to be a problem. (This guess was prompted by the fact that
              the locos run very well on the two sections on Faller bridges
              where NO nails had been used.)

              I proceeded to remove ALL the nails (track was already held
              in place by ballast and glue), and some of the problems
              cleared up right away.

              Just a bit of experience which might be of help to you, or
              someone.

              ELF




              "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor





              "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David George
              Don t use any pins at all ! just glue-tack the track with Mr Elmer. David G. bill.foote wrote: One possible way of avoiding this
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 2, 2003
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                Don't use any pins at all ! just glue-tack the track with Mr Elmer.

                David G.

                "bill.foote" <bill.foote@...> wrote:
                One possible way of avoiding this problem is to drill holes through the
                ties(sleepers) and into the baseboard (very necessary if you have a fairly
                hard material for a baseboard anyhow) - drill to a depth that just allows
                the end of track pins to "bite" into the baseboard, using a drill that is
                what I would describe as "barely clearance" for the track pins

                Well that is how I did it on my most recent layout, and it seems to work

                As ever, use as few pins as possible

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "rohirrim98236" <rohirrim@...>
                To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:12 AM
                Subject: [z_scale] Re: Very poor running.


                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Terry J.N. Rowsell" <terryrowsell@y...> wr=
                ote:
                > Hi.
                >
                > I am at the point where all of my track is layed on my Z scale layout
                > and the scenery is coming along.
                > BUT I can never ever ever get my little locos to run around once
                > without stopping.
                > My two Z scale locos are Markln and for all intents and purposes 0-4-
                > 0 locos electrically which is itself frustrating.
                > I am at the end of my rope!


                [I am just back and catching up on a few weeks
                of emails, so please forgive the `step backwards".]

                I too had been suffering from a very similar experience
                (especially the rope part!). My two locos are M�rklin
                8895 (five pole 2-6-0) and M�rklin 8899 (three pole 4-6-0)
                steamers.

                I had the good fortune, a couple of weeks ago, of taking my
                locos to Terry Sutfin's house and running them on the
                Poorville and Debt City. They ran fine -- smooth, no
                hesitation and well at slow speeds. He graciously lent me
                a few of his (4 axle and 6 axle M�rklin Diesel and
                Electrics) to try on my layout. Because of the much longer
                wheel base I was able to `see' problems in the track
                which were not apparent otherwise.

                Terry also questioned me about my tack nails. I was sure
                they had not been put in too deeply (which I could verify
                with an optivisor!), but he wondered if the tight fit in the
                molded-in hole might still create enough friction to cause
                just enough binding [leteral movement of the rail heads]
                to be a problem. (This guess was prompted by the fact that
                the locos run very well on the two sections on Faller bridges
                where NO nails had been used.)

                I proceeded to remove ALL the nails (track was already held
                in place by ballast and glue), and some of the problems
                cleared up right away.

                Just a bit of experience which might be of help to you, or
                someone.

                ELF




                "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

                "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steven Delibert
                Another nail-less possibility is the wonderful butyl rubber instant roadbed from AMI. We have just been using it for a few months, and love it-- pressing
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 2, 2003
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                  Another nail-less possibility is the wonderful butyl rubber "instant
                  roadbed" from AMI.
                  We have just been using it for a few months, and love it-- pressing down
                  the track adheres it firmly; the "tack" of any single spot is little enough
                  that you can move bits of track around for alignment, but the combined
                  "tack" on a long section of track is enough that it seems determined to stay
                  put for a long, long time.
                  At one point we found after we had laid a good size stretch of track - 8
                  ft long, much 2 and 3 track, 6 switches, etc - we just weren't happy with
                  the general alignment; 2 of us were able to untack and lift up the entire
                  stretch of track and roadbed from the base, move it several inches, and
                  press it back down where it again adhered rock-hard.
                  Has anyone found a downside to this stuff (except that it's sometimes
                  hard to get)?
                  Steve Delibert
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "David George" <dlgeorgesr@...>
                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:30 PM
                  Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Very poor running.


                  Don't use any pins at all ! just glue-tack the track with Mr Elmer.

                  David G.

                  "bill.foote" <bill.foote@...> wrote:
                  One possible way of avoiding this problem is to drill holes through the
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