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"Station Stop" Circuits

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  • John Cubbin
    I think I ve seen all the commercially available electronic circuits for creating an automated station stop , but thought I d ask in case I ve missed one or
    Message 1 of 10 , May 7 9:22 AM
      I think I've seen all the commercially available electronic circuits for
      creating an automated "station stop", but thought I'd ask in case I've
      missed one or two. The closest thing I've found is made by Heathcote
      Electronics, it allows the train to pass through it sensors up to three
      times, then applies braking over a specified distance and stops at a
      specific point. The braking is triggered by one set of sensors, the
      stopping by another. After a period of time, gradual acceleration is
      applied until full speed is reached.

      The problem I'm running into is that I'm using a throttle with both
      pulse and Back EMF circuitry. The pulse circuitry is fine, but the Back
      EMF would be a problem according to the manufacturer.

      Does anyone know of another company that makes a station stop device?

      Thanks,
      John
    • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
      You ve looked at Jeremy s, right? T
      Message 2 of 10 , May 7 11:20 AM
        You've looked at Jeremy's, right?

        T

        >Does anyone know of another company that makes a station stop device?
      • uptoolateny
        Ted, I just had a look through the archives and the files and didn t come across a station stop circuit, do you have a link or a location for this? Thanks,
        Message 3 of 10 , May 7 11:42 AM
          Ted,

          I just had a look through the archives and the files and didn't come across a station stop circuit, do you have a
          link or a location for this?

          Thanks,
          John

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ted_lamar@p... wrote:
          >
          >
          > You've looked at Jeremy's, right?
          >
          > T
          >
          > >Does anyone know of another company that makes a station stop device?
        • uptoolateny
          Hi Ted (or Jeremy), Do you have a link for this? I ve done an archive search but failed to come up with any information. John
          Message 4 of 10 , May 7 12:45 PM
            Hi Ted (or Jeremy),

            Do you have a link for this? I've done an archive search but failed to come up with any information.

            John


            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ted_lamar@p... wrote:
            >
            >
            > You've looked at Jeremy's, right?
            >
            > T
          • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
            http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/olaj1/zthek.htm I dont see the circuit on the website. It may be too new. Jeremy Brandon is a regular contributor to this list
            Message 5 of 10 , May 7 1:04 PM
              http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/olaj1/zthek.htm

              I dont see the circuit on the website. It may be too new.

              Jeremy Brandon is a regular contributor to this list and I'm sure he will
              respond.

              T





              uptoolateny
              <jcubbin@optonlin To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              e.net> cc:
              Subject: [z_scale] Re: "Station Stop" Circuits
              05/07/2003 12:45
              PM
              Please respond to
              z_scale







              Hi Ted (or Jeremy),

              Do you have a link for this? I've done an archive search but failed to come
              up with any information.

              John


              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ted_lamar@p... wrote:
              >
              >
              > You've looked at Jeremy's, right?
              >
              > T




              "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • jmac_han
              John, did you try some of the URLs in the Links - ElectronicZ folder? There are several excellent electronic circuit sources listed. Jeffrey ... come across
              Message 6 of 10 , May 7 5:05 PM
                John, did you try some of the URLs in the "Links - ElectronicZ"
                folder? There are several excellent electronic circuit sources
                listed.

                Jeffrey

                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "uptoolateny" <jcubbin@o...>
                wrote:
                > Ted,
                >
                > I just had a look through the archives and the files and didn't
                come across a station stop circuit, do you have a
                > link or a location for this?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > John
              • Lajos Thek
                ... circuits for ... I ve ... The Zthek #21202 auto reverse circuit with timer has the automated station stop feature. It can operate two or more trains on the
                Message 7 of 10 , May 7 5:13 PM
                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
                  > I think I've seen all the commercially available electronic
                  circuits for
                  > creating an automated "station stop", but thought I'd ask in case
                  I've
                  > missed one or two.

                  The Zthek #21202 auto reverse circuit with timer has the automated
                  station stop feature. It can operate two or more trains on the same
                  loop. The timer is adjustable between 0 - 180 seconds.
                  http://www.lthek.com/zthek40.htm
                  Lajos
                • Jeremy Brandon
                  ... Jeremy here ... I have worked on station stops longer than I have worked on controllers! In fact it was trying to use a Heathcote station stop with a
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 8 12:32 AM
                    --- John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
                    > I think I've seen all the commercially available electronic
                    > circuits for creating an automated "station stop" ..
                    > The closest thing I've found is made by Heathcote
                    > Electronics ...
                    > The problem I'm running into is that I'm using a throttle with both
                    > pulse and Back EMF circuitry. The pulse circuitry is fine, but the
                    > Back EMF would be a problem according to the manufacturer.

                    Jeremy here ...

                    I have worked on station stops longer than I have worked on
                    controllers! In fact it was trying to use a Heathcote station stop
                    with a back-EMF controller that got me on the controller path.

                    There are two parts of a station stop circuit that can interfere with
                    the back-EMF: the detectors, and the decelerate/accelerate circuit.
                    The problem is this: the back-EMF from a Z-loco is a very small
                    voltage at slow speeds and passing it through any non-linear
                    component (like diodes and transistors) destroys it.

                    So detectors that measure the voltage across a diode in the track
                    power supply are "out" because the diode destroys the back-EMF (this
                    rules out the otherwise excellent Viessmann devices, for example).
                    But detectors using reed switches or infra-red light are OK. (I
                    personally wouldn't use reed switches because the magnets can derail
                    the wagons when passing something made of iron.) Heathcote make
                    excellent infra-red detectors which I recommend.

                    All decelerate/accelerate circuits involve passing the track power
                    through a transistor, so they ALL destroy the back-EMF! (Except those
                    with abrupt stop/starts, which is not what we are looking for.) My
                    conclusion is thís: the decelerate/accelerate process HAS to be done
                    in the controller, in effect by turning the speed control knob. There
                    needs to be some automatic circuitry in the controller that can
                    respond to a "slow" signal from a detector by decelerating the train
                    from fast to slow at some pre-determined rate, and to a "stop" signal
                    by decelerating from slow to stop, again at some pre-determined rate.
                    And when "slow" and "stop" are removed (= "fast"), by accelerating
                    the train from stop to fast at some, possibly different, rate.

                    As a further complication, each loco is different, so each loco needs
                    different settings of the speed control corresponding to "fast"
                    and "slow". My solution to that problem is a second knob that "tunes"
                    the controller to the range of back-EMF produced by the loco that is
                    running (I call it "maximum speed").

                    I am sorry I do not have an easy solution, but I am still working on
                    it. The simplest solution commercially available is to "go digital"
                    using the D&H decoders available from Selectrix and MÜT: with these
                    all the necessary parameters for the loco can be preset in the
                    decoder and the stop/start is triggered by switching a diode in and
                    out of the track power. What could be simpler?

                    Alternatively, use the Heathcote station stop with Heathcote infra-
                    red detectors, but ensure the track power passes through the station
                    stop only in the vicinity of the station. Then you have proper back-
                    EMF control everywhere else, but a less-than-perfect setup for the
                    station. That is the best I can recommend.

                    Try it - you might be satisfied. Jeremy.
                  • Steven Delibert
                    Lajos - Couple of questions: Does this unit have the clout to run N scale equipment, for the back-&-forths on the N section of the 2-scale exhibit we re
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 8 4:07 AM
                      Lajos -
                      Couple of questions: Does this unit have the clout to run N scale
                      equipment, for the back-&-forths on the "N" section of the 2-scale exhibit
                      we're building?
                      How does it handle trains chasing each other on a loop? Does it need
                      blocks, or what?
                      Is there a way to get it (or 2 of it?) to handle 3 or more trains on one
                      loop?
                      Thanks!
                      Steve Delibert
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Lajos Thek <olaj@...>
                      To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:13 PM
                      Subject: [z_scale] Re: "Station Stop" Circuits


                      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
                      > > I think I've seen all the commercially available electronic
                      > circuits for
                      > > creating an automated "station stop", but thought I'd ask in case
                      > I've
                      > > missed one or two.
                      >
                      > The Zthek #21202 auto reverse circuit with timer has the automated
                      > station stop feature. It can operate two or more trains on the same
                      > loop. The timer is adjustable between 0 - 180 seconds.
                      > http://www.lthek.com/zthek40.htm
                      > Lajos
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Lajos Thek
                      ... scale ... exhibit ... It is used by N-scalers already. The circuit s relay is rated 1 Amp, so even 2 HO locomotives can be operated by it. ... A Marklin
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 8 5:42 AM
                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Delibert" <STEVDEL@p...>
                        wrote:
                        > Lajos -
                        > Couple of questions: Does this unit have the clout to run N
                        scale
                        > equipment, for the back-&-forths on the "N" section of the 2-scale
                        exhibit
                        > we're building?

                        It is used by N-scalers already. The circuit's relay is rated 1 Amp,
                        so even 2 HO locomotives can be operated by it.

                        > How does it handle trains chasing each other on a loop?

                        A Marklin contact track or reed switch near the station(s) turns the
                        timer on and turns the DC current off at the isolated section of the
                        station, so the locomotive stops. The time of waiting can be set up
                        to 3 minutes. On the longer loops additional isolated sections
                        (connected to the isolated section(s) of the station(s)) can manage
                        the traffic, so the train(s) will stop at the designated areas before
                        catching each other.
                        Lajos
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