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  • Malcolm Cleaveland
    Zeds, I have been a lurker for some time. I have always been interested in model trains, got some of the original N scale when it first came out. My son and
    Message 1 of 25 , May 3, 2003
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      Zeds,

      I have been a "lurker" for some time. I have always been interested in
      model trains, got some of the original N scale when it first came out.
      My son and daughter knew I was interested in Z and several years ago got
      me a MicroTrains starter. Since then I have accumulated about 80 cars,
      some AZL Dash Nines and assorted track (Peco, MTL and Haberman: code 40
      carried by Aspen, was Halwa). I want to model modern -- BNSF the late
      90s, just after the BN-ATSF merger. I have been working on expanding my
      library and accumulating ideas for a big layout.

      The main problem this scale has is the lack of a good, affordable track/
      switch system, no bigger than code 40 rail. The Marklin track and
      couplers make Marklin trains look like toys IMHO, far from prototypical (I
      apologize to the Marklin devotees, maybe I aspire to be a rivet counter).
      Give me some code 40 flex track and affordable switches and I'll be happy
      to make my own roadbed and ballast it. When I say affordable -- well, 2
      switches and less than 20' of Haberman track cost almost $200. That's
      <not> affordable for a real layout.

      What's on my workbench? I'm building a 28'x40' shop building with a
      full bathroom. My daughter got me a sign to put over the door that says
      "Dad's Doghouse". After more than a year I have it weathered in and the
      plumbing and most of the wiring installed and passed inspection. Once
      it's done, then I get to do my train building. I'm dreaming of 30'x60'.
      I won't do that myself. I'll get a local contractor to put up a steel
      building for me.

      Regards,
      Malcolm Z
    • de Champeaux Dominique
      ... Hi Malcolm, and welcome here! How many turnouts do you intend to have on your layout? A good way to lower their price should be using Peter Wright Nn3
      Message 2 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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        --- Malcolm Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> a écrit :
        >
        > Zeds,
        >
        > I have been a "lurker" for some time. I have
        > always been interested in
        > model trains, got some of the original N scale when
        > it first came out.
        > My son and daughter knew I was interested in Z and
        > several years ago got
        > me a MicroTrains starter. Since then I have
        > accumulated about 80 cars,
        > some AZL Dash Nines and assorted track (Peco, MTL
        > and Haberman: code 40
        > carried by Aspen, was Halwa). I want to model
        > modern -- BNSF the late
        > 90s, just after the BN-ATSF merger. I have been
        > working on expanding my
        > library and accumulating ideas for a big layout.
        >
        > The main problem this scale has is the lack of a
        > good, affordable track/
        > switch system, no bigger than code 40 rail. The
        > Marklin track and
        > couplers make Marklin trains look like toys IMHO,
        > far from prototypical (I
        > apologize to the Marklin devotees, maybe I aspire to
        > be a rivet counter).
        > Give me some code 40 flex track and affordable
        > switches and I'll be happy
        > to make my own roadbed and ballast it. When I say
        > affordable -- well, 2
        > switches and less than 20' of Haberman track cost
        > almost $200. That's
        > <not> affordable for a real layout.
        >
        > What's on my workbench? I'm building a 28'x40'
        > shop building with a
        > full bathroom. My daughter got me a sign to put
        > over the door that says
        > "Dad's Doghouse". After more than a year I have it
        > weathered in and the
        > plumbing and most of the wiring installed and passed
        > inspection. Once
        > it's done, then I get to do my train building. I'm
        > dreaming of 30'x60'.
        > I won't do that myself. I'll get a local contractor
        > to put up a steel
        > building for me.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Malcolm


        Hi Malcolm, and welcome here! How many turnouts do you
        intend to have on your layout? A good way to lower
        their price should be using Peter Wright Nn3 turnouts
        (diverging track radius:490mm -sorry for the
        conversion in inches but I'm lacking energy this
        morning!-, like Marklin), but straight track after the
        frog (like any serious turnout wichever the scale):
        I've ordered 10 of them for a price of 240 Euros
        (USD), so not a very higher price than Marklin
        turnouts, and they are very nice; you just have to
        file a little bit the end of the ties so they match
        standard gauge size. And about track, I think the best
        way to have prototypical track is using MT flextrack:
        I've currently 11 packages, plus 5 in order for my
        soon starting Tehachapi Pass.
        Cheers
        Dominique

        ___________________________________________________________
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      • de Champeaux Dominique
        Sorry, I made a mistake: I spent 280 Euros for 10 Wright Nn3 turnouts: With a Tortoise motor you have a turnout for 28 + 15 = 43 Euros (USD), to be compared to
        Message 3 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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          Sorry, I made a mistake: I spent 280 Euros for 10
          Wright Nn3 turnouts: With a Tortoise motor you have a
          turnout for 28 + 15 = 43 Euros (USD), to be compared
          to the 37 euros asked in my local shop (Paris,
          France)for an electrically powered Marklin turnout.
          Cheers
          Dominique


          ___________________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
          Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
        • Svein-Martin Holt
          Hi Dominique I have earlier seen you writing about your Tehachapi Pass. Do you have any layout plans that you can share with us? I am myself planning a small
          Message 4 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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            Hi Dominique

            I have earlier seen you writing about your Tehachapi Pass. Do you have any
            layout plans that you can share with us? I am myself planning a small layout
            based on Tehachapi, and wonder how you have sorted out the plan for the
            layout, the size, trackplan, etc.

            Hilsen/Regards,
            Svein-Martin Holt

            ============================================
            Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@...
            Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
            Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
            ============================================

            -----Original Message-----
            From: de Champeaux Dominique [mailto:ddechamp71@...]
            Sent: 4. mai 2003 11:40
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [z_scale] Lurker


            And about track, I think the best
            way to have prototypical track is using MT flextrack:
            I've currently 11 packages, plus 5 in order for my
            soon starting Tehachapi Pass.
            Cheers
            Dominique
          • de Champeaux
            ... have any ... small layout ... for the ... Hi Svein-Martin, how are you today? To give you an answer, I have already a track plan for my layout;
            Message 5 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...>
              wrote:
              > Hi Dominique
              >
              > I have earlier seen you writing about your Tehachapi Pass. Do you
              have any
              > layout plans that you can share with us? I am myself planning a
              small layout
              > based on Tehachapi, and wonder how you have sorted out the plan
              for the
              > layout, the size, trackplan, etc.
              >
              > Hilsen/Regards,
              > Svein-Martin Holt
              >
              > ============================================
              > Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@s...
              > Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
              > Internet: http://www.platelayer.com

              Hi Svein-Martin, how are you today? To give you an answer, I have
              already a track plan for my layout; unfortunately, as I have no
              scanner, I'm not able to send it on the web. But for those here who
              are interrested, please give me offline your home address, and I'll
              send you a copy on paper. Basically it will be a (hidden)loop to
              point layout (as I don't like continuous operation of a train
              unprototypically turning around an "horse-racetrack" type loop). It
              will be established in a 6,5 x 4,5 meters room, plus an extension in
              a 6 x 2 meters corridor, and starting at Caliente, passing by
              Bealville, Cliff, the Loop and finishing at Mojave (with obviously a
              serious scale compression, you bet it!).
              Cheers
              Dominique
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: de Champeaux Dominique [mailto:ddechamp71@y...]
              > Sent: 4. mai 2003 11:40
              > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [z_scale] Lurker
              >
              >
              > And about track, I think the best
              > way to have prototypical track is using MT flextrack:
              > I've currently 11 packages, plus 5 in order for my
              > soon starting Tehachapi Pass.
              > Cheers
              > Dominique
            • Edward Scullin
              Dominique and Svein-Martin I happen to live about 60 miles north west of Mojave. We drive by it a couple of times a month. If we go to Bakerfield, we pass by
              Message 6 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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                Dominique and Svein-Martin
                I happen to live about 60 miles north west of Mojave. We drive by it
                a couple of times a month. If we go to Bakerfield, we pass by the
                loop. Have never gotten off the road to go to Bealville of Caliente.
                Would you like some pictures of the towns of area? If so let me
                know, and the next time we go out of town., I'l take the camera.
                Ed Scullin
                Ridgecrest CA

                --- de Champeaux <ddechamp71@...> wrote:
                > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...>
                > wrote:
                > > Hi Dominique
                > >
                > > I have earlier seen you writing about your Tehachapi Pass. Do you
                >
                > have any
                > > layout plans that you can share with us? I am myself planning a
                > small layout
                > > based on Tehachapi, and wonder how you have sorted out the plan
                > for the
                > > layout, the size, trackplan, etc.
                > >
                > > Hilsen/Regards,
                > > Svein-Martin Holt
                > >
                > > ============================================
                > > Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@s...
                > > Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
                > > Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
                >
                > Hi Svein-Martin, how are you today? To give you an answer, I have
                > already a track plan for my layout; unfortunately, as I have no
                > scanner, I'm not able to send it on the web. But for those here who
                >
                > are interrested, please give me offline your home address, and I'll
                >
                > send you a copy on paper. Basically it will be a (hidden)loop to
                > point layout (as I don't like continuous operation of a train
                > unprototypically turning around an "horse-racetrack" type loop). It
                >
                > will be established in a 6,5 x 4,5 meters room, plus an extension
                > in
                > a 6 x 2 meters corridor, and starting at Caliente, passing by
                > Bealville, Cliff, the Loop and finishing at Mojave (with obviously
                > a
                > serious scale compression, you bet it!).
                > Cheers
                > Dominique
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: de Champeaux Dominique [mailto:ddechamp71@y...]
                > > Sent: 4. mai 2003 11:40
                > > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [z_scale] Lurker
                > >
                > >
                > > And about track, I think the best
                > > way to have prototypical track is using MT flextrack:
                > > I've currently 11 packages, plus 5 in order for my
                > > soon starting Tehachapi Pass.
                > > Cheers
                > > Dominique
                >
                >


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              • Edward Scullin
                I forgot to mention that on the way south, we pass thru Red Rock Canyon. To the fellow who has the Red Rock Railroad. The same offer holds true. Ed Scullin
                Message 7 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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                  I forgot to mention that on the way
                  south, we pass thru Red Rock Canyon. To the fellow who has the Red
                  Rock Railroad. The same offer holds true.
                  Ed Scullin

                  --- de Champeaux <ddechamp71@...> wrote:
                  > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Hi Dominique
                  > >
                  > > I have earlier seen you writing about your Tehachapi Pass. Do you
                  >
                  > have any
                  > > layout plans that you can share with us? I am myself planning a
                  > small layout
                  > > based on Tehachapi, and wonder how you have sorted out the plan
                  > for the
                  > > layout, the size, trackplan, etc.
                  > >
                  > > Hilsen/Regards,
                  > > Svein-Martin Holt
                  > >
                  > > ============================================
                  > > Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@s...
                  > > Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
                  > > Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
                  >
                  > Hi Svein-Martin, how are you today? To give you an answer, I have
                  > already a track plan for my layout; unfortunately, as I have no
                  > scanner, I'm not able to send it on the web. But for those here who
                  >
                  > are interrested, please give me offline your home address, and I'll
                  >
                  > send you a copy on paper. Basically it will be a (hidden)loop to
                  > point layout (as I don't like continuous operation of a train
                  > unprototypically turning around an "horse-racetrack" type loop). It
                  >
                  > will be established in a 6,5 x 4,5 meters room, plus an extension
                  > in
                  > a 6 x 2 meters corridor, and starting at Caliente, passing by
                  > Bealville, Cliff, the Loop and finishing at Mojave (with obviously
                  > a
                  > serious scale compression, you bet it!).
                  > Cheers
                  > Dominique
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: de Champeaux Dominique [mailto:ddechamp71@y...]
                  > > Sent: 4. mai 2003 11:40
                  > > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [z_scale] Lurker
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > And about track, I think the best
                  > > way to have prototypical track is using MT flextrack:
                  > > I've currently 11 packages, plus 5 in order for my
                  > > soon starting Tehachapi Pass.
                  > > Cheers
                  > > Dominique
                  >
                  >


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                  The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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                • kurtulueck@aol.com
                  Hi Ed! It is a real pity for me never been there in the Red Rock Canyon. Is it somehow similar than what I modeled in Lonesome Dove??? Cheers Kurt The Redrock
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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                    Hi Ed!

                    It is a real pity for me never been there in the Red Rock Canyon. Is it
                    somehow similar than what I modeled in Lonesome Dove???

                    Cheers

                    Kurt

                    The Redrock Railroad - Home of the Desert Hog
                    http://hometown.aol.de/redrockrail/index.html


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Edward Scullin
                    Kurt First I want to apologise for not having your name and not taking time to look it up. I do have your home page bookmarked. The Red Rock Canyon (now a
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 4, 2003
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                      Kurt
                      First I want to apologise for not having your name and not taking
                      time to look it up. I do have your home page bookmarked.
                      The Red Rock Canyon (now a state park) is quite different
                      geologically (spelling?). This one is layers of red and tan stone.
                      They have weathered into columns, but not stand alone ones. Will take
                      some picture next time we go through it and send them to you. If you
                      like the old US western movies, you might have seen it, a lot of them
                      were filmed there. It was only three hours from Hollywood,
                      therefrore less expensive.
                      Like your layout and love your web site.
                      Ed Scullin

                      --- kurtulueck@... wrote:
                      > Hi Ed!
                      >
                      > It is a real pity for me never been there in the Red Rock Canyon.
                      > Is it
                      > somehow similar than what I modeled in Lonesome Dove???
                      >
                      > Cheers
                      >
                      > Kurt
                      >
                      > The Redrock Railroad - Home of the Desert Hog
                      > http://hometown.aol.de/redrockrail/index.html
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >

                      __________________________________
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                      The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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                    • de Champeaux Dominique
                      ... Dominique and Svein-Martin ... Ed, it s very kind, thanks a lot! Indeed I have a lot of photos, books, DVD, etc..about this line, but I think we have never
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 5, 2003
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                        --- Edward Scullin <sculline@...> a écrit : >
                        Dominique and Svein-Martin
                        > I happen to live about 60 miles north west of
                        > Mojave. We drive by it
                        > a couple of times a month. If we go to Bakerfield,
                        > we pass by the
                        > loop. Have never gotten off the road to go to
                        > Bealville of Caliente.
                        > Would you like some pictures of the towns of area?
                        > If so let me
                        > know, and the next time we go out of town., I'l take
                        > the camera.
                        > Ed Scullin
                        > Ridgecrest CA
                        >

                        Ed, it's very kind, thanks a lot! Indeed I have a lot
                        of photos, books, DVD, etc..about this line, but I
                        think we have never too many of anything! So I accept
                        with a great pleasure! I had used to come to this
                        location about twice a year for 8 years, but
                        unfortunately my employer discontinued our Californian
                        sector last month, so I have no plans to come back
                        before may 2004, on vacation that time!...
                        Best regards
                        dominique

                        ___________________________________________________________
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                      • kurtulueck@aol.com
                        Ed, thank you very much ! I am looking forward to see how the real one looks! Highball Kurt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 5, 2003
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                          Ed,

                          thank you very much ! I am looking forward to see how the real one looks!

                          Highball

                          Kurt


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bill Hoshiko
                          ... looks! ... The most spectacular feature of the Tehachapi Pass is the Loop. In order to gain altitude S.P. s engineer Wm Hood wrapped the mainline around a
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, kurtulueck@a... wrote:
                            > Ed,
                            >
                            > thank you very much ! I am looking forward to see how the real one
                            looks!
                            >
                            > Highball
                            >
                            > Kurt


                            The most spectacular feature of the Tehachapi Pass is the Loop. In
                            order to gain altitude S.P.'s engineer Wm Hood wrapped the mainline
                            around a small hill. If the following link works, you can see it,
                            in color, from overhead.

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Espee/files/Tehachapi/The%20Loop.JPG

                            If the link doesn't work then you need to go the Yahoo group called
                            Espee. You may have to join the yahoo group in order to view the
                            file.

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Espee

                            Go to the files link in the left column and scroll down to Tehachapi.

                            A model of this section of the pass has always been tempting to
                            build because you can model a real life scene where your train will
                            be in view for a long stretch. Back before Amtrak, streamlined
                            passenger trains traveled this route also. The idea that you can
                            have a train where the locomotive can pass directly over the tail
                            end of the train also seems to be an appealing feature.

                            The track at left goes on to Mojave and then on to Los Angeles or on
                            to points east through Barstow. The track at right goes on to
                            Bakersfield and on to San Francisco or Sacramento.

                            Z scale is the perfect scale for this scene. It is being built in
                            HO by the San Diego club but they are using a museum building to
                            house it. They have been working on it for over 20 years.

                            Bill
                            El Toro, ca
                          • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
                            Does anyone know what the radius of these curves work out to be? Tough to tell how big that loop is from so high.
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                              Does anyone know what the "radius" of these curves work out to be? Tough
                              to tell how big that loop is from so high.



                              >The most spectacular feature of the Tehachapi Pass is the Loop.
                            • Svein-Martin Holt
                              Hi TopoZone can give you a map of the area, using this link: http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3896096&e=360175&s=25&size=m Here you can see the size on
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                                Hi

                                TopoZone can give you a map of the area, using this link:
                                http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3896096&e=360175&s=25&size=m

                                Here you can see the size on the distance-"legend" in the bottom of the map.

                                I have used this to create my z-scale plan of Tehachapi Loop, in correct
                                scale and size.

                                Hilsen/Regards,
                                Svein-Martin Holt

                                ============================================
                                Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@...
                                Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
                                Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
                                ============================================

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: ted_lamar@... [mailto:ted_lamar@...]
                                Sent: 6. mai 2003 20:47
                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Tehachapi Pass - The Loop



                                Does anyone know what the "radius" of these curves work out to be? Tough
                                to tell how big that loop is from so high.



                                >The most spectacular feature of the Tehachapi Pass is the Loop.





                                "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              • Steven Delibert
                                Looking at the topographic at http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=2&s=12&x=450&y=4870&z=11&w=1 , the diameter of the loop is about a quarter mile
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                                  Looking at the topographic at
                                  http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=2&s=12&x=450&y=4870&z=11&w=1 ,
                                  the diameter of the loop is about a quarter mile (1300 ft), radius thus
                                  about 650 feet -- or only 3 feet in z-scale! Actually possible to model
                                  something in full scale without a gymnasium for a layout room, for once,
                                  though this thread is still in no danger of merging with the "coffee-table
                                  layout" one, I don't guess.
                                  Steve Delibert
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <ted_lamar@...>
                                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:46 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Tehachapi Pass - The Loop


                                  >
                                  > Does anyone know what the "radius" of these curves work out to be? Tough
                                  > to tell how big that loop is from so high.
                                  >
                                • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
                                  Thanks to all who sent the url of the topo. Really neat to see. It s amazing that a real life helix is only 6 feet in diameter!!!! Thanks again, T Steven
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                                    Thanks to all who sent the url of the topo. Really neat to see.

                                    It's amazing that a real life helix is only 6 feet in diameter!!!!


                                    Thanks again,

                                    T





                                    "Steven Delibert"
                                    <STEVDEL@prodigy. To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                    net> cc:
                                    Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Tehachapi Pass - The Loop
                                    05/06/2003 01:46
                                    PM
                                    Please respond to
                                    z_scale







                                    Looking at the topographic at
                                    http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=2&s=12&x=450&y=4870&z=11&w=1
                                    ,
                                    the diameter of the loop is about a quarter mile (1300 ft), radius thus
                                    about 650 feet -- or only 3 feet in z-scale! Actually possible to model
                                    something in full scale without a gymnasium for a layout room, for once,
                                    though this thread is still in no danger of merging with the "coffee-table
                                    layout" one, I don't guess.
                                    Steve Delibert
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: <ted_lamar@...>
                                    To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:46 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Tehachapi Pass - The Loop


                                    >
                                    > Does anyone know what the "radius" of these curves work out to be? Tough
                                    > to tell how big that loop is from so high.
                                    >




                                    "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  • Bill Hoshiko
                                    ... Careful, the curve is not a constant radius. It is tighter at the bottom, after exiting the tunnel and becomes wider near the top. At the point that it
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                                      - In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ted_lamar@p... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks to all who sent the url of the topo. Really neat to see.
                                      >
                                      > It's amazing that a real life helix is only 6 feet in diameter!!!!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Thanks again,
                                      >
                                      > T


                                      Careful, the curve is not a constant radius. It is tighter at the
                                      bottom, after exiting the tunnel and becomes wider near the top. At
                                      the point that it crosses over itself the track is a tangent befor
                                      entering the curve at Walong siding.

                                      I haven't visited Microsoft's TerraServer for a long time but I have
                                      a print copy that has a straight down satelite shot of the Loop.

                                      The link that printed at the top of the page is:

                                      http://terraserver.microsoft.com/printimage.asp?
                                      S=11&T=1&X=900&Y=9740&Z=11&W=1

                                      I suspect that the entire url did not print.

                                      The header at the top of the picture states: 131 km N of
                                      los Angeles, California, United States 08 Jun 1994.

                                      I could never navigate around TerraServer. I always get side tracked
                                      when I see something else that interests me.

                                      Hope this helps.

                                      Bill
                                      El Toro, Ca
                                    • Steven Delibert
                                      ... Quite so, and no argument here --the Loop is most certainly first and foremost a piece of brilliant railroad location (by engineers who had no idea how
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                                        > Careful, the curve is not a constant radius. It is tighter at the
                                        > bottom, after exiting the tunnel and becomes wider near the top.

                                        Quite so, and no argument here --the Loop is most certainly first and
                                        foremost a piece of brilliant railroad location (by engineers who had no
                                        idea how wide a 20th century modeler's basement might be), and my saying it
                                        is "about" a quarter-mile diameter was only to help get a general fix onthe
                                        scale of things. We might indeed 3 or 6 more inches, and modeling it ALL
                                        in "only" six feet diameter, or even 6'-3" or 6'-6", would still be an
                                        unspeakably wonderful coup-de-force miracle for those of us *ld f*rts who
                                        grew up thinking of HO as the "new", "probably ok", "scarily small" "new"
                                        scale.

                                        Anyone who wants to really get down to business and try to take advantage of
                                        Z-scale's remarkably tight curves and other tolerances, to make a believable
                                        layout of Tehachapi, or Cajon, or for that matter, Soldier Summit, Sherman,
                                        the real Horseshoe Curve, or the double horseshoes on the Ulster and
                                        Delaware as it held the assult on Pine Hill down to "only" 4%, here's your
                                        prototype.

                                        Go for it, and send us pictures.



                                        At
                                        > the point that it crosses over itself the track is a tangent befor
                                        > entering the curve at Walong siding.
                                        >
                                        > I haven't visited Microsoft's TerraServer for a long time but I have
                                        > a print copy that has a straight down satelite shot of the Loop.
                                        >
                                        > The link that printed at the top of the page is:
                                        >
                                        > http://terraserver.microsoft.com/printimage.asp?
                                        > S=11&T=1&X=900&Y=9740&Z=11&W=1
                                        >
                                        > I suspect that the entire url did not print.
                                        >
                                        > The header at the top of the picture states: 131 km N of
                                        > los Angeles, California, United States 08 Jun 1994.
                                        >
                                        > I could never navigate around TerraServer. I always get side tracked
                                        > when I see something else that interests me.
                                        >
                                        > Hope this helps.
                                        >
                                        > Bill
                                        > El Toro, Ca
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
                                        THAT, is cool. Thanks, T PS Copy and paste the top part [up to .asp?] into your browser first, then append the second part [lower line] Careful, the curve is
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 6, 2003
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                                          THAT, is cool.

                                          Thanks,

                                          T

                                          PS Copy and paste the top part [up to .asp?] into your browser first, then
                                          append the second part [lower line]




                                          Careful, the curve is not a constant radius. It is tighter at the
                                          bottom, after exiting the tunnel and becomes wider near the top. At
                                          the point that it crosses over itself the track is a tangent befor
                                          entering the curve at Walong siding.

                                          I haven't visited Microsoft's TerraServer for a long time but I have
                                          a print copy that has a straight down satelite shot of the Loop.

                                          The link that printed at the top of the page is:

                                          http://terraserver.microsoft.com/printimage.asp?
                                          S=11&T=1&X=900&Y=9740&Z=11&W=1
                                        • de Champeaux Dominique
                                          ... About 180m/650ft; in Z scale it makes about 80cm/2,5ft radius; Cheers Dominique ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 7, 2003
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                                            --- ted_lamar@... a écrit : >
                                            > Does anyone know what the "radius" of these curves
                                            > work out to be? Tough
                                            > to tell how big that loop is from so high.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            About 180m/650ft; in Z scale it makes about 80cm/2,5ft
                                            radius;
                                            Cheers
                                            Dominique

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                                          • de Champeaux Dominique
                                            Guys, in my case I computed my plan of the Loop using 2 datas: -first the plate that is close to the Loop says the Loop has a 1200m/4000ft-circumference. -2nd
                                            Message 21 of 25 , May 7, 2003
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                                              Guys, in my case I computed my plan of the Loop using
                                              2 datas:
                                              -first the plate that is close to the Loop says the
                                              Loop has a 1200m/4000ft-circumference.
                                              -2nd I used S.Schmolinger's amazing book "railroading
                                              in a desert mountain" that gives track plan and
                                              amazing photos of this line, including the Loop.
                                              Cheers
                                              dominique

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                                            • Bill Hoshiko
                                              Go to: http://terraserver.microsoft.com find Famous Places at left column. Scroll down alphabeticaly to Tehachapi. Click & voila! Sorry Jeffery if we strayed
                                              Message 22 of 25 , May 7, 2003
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                                                Go to:

                                                http://terraserver.microsoft.com

                                                find "Famous Places" at left column.

                                                Scroll down alphabeticaly to Tehachapi.

                                                Click & voila!

                                                Sorry Jeffery if we strayed from topic, but we Tehachapi fans tend
                                                to be a little fanatical. & a near scale Z Tehachapi layput would
                                                make a fine feature for at least one of our RR magazines.

                                                Bill
                                                El Toro
                                                Jay call 768-3997
                                              • David George
                                                Thanks everyone for T-Loop info. I had been flying close to the idea of a T-Loop module for years,but never had a real feel for its true configuration. All of
                                                Message 23 of 25 , May 7, 2003
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                                                  Thanks everyone for T-Loop info. I had been flying close to the idea of a T-Loop module for years,but never had a real feel for its true configuration. All of the recent items on this has convinced me to "JUST DO IT ! ". It will be a while before completion , but rest assured the G~B&CC RR will extend its reach to the Pacific Rim via the Tehachapi Loop. David G.Spring ,Tx.

                                                  Bill Hoshiko <billhko@...> wrote:Go to:

                                                  http://terraserver.microsoft.com

                                                  find "Famous Places" at left column.

                                                  Scroll down alphabeticaly to Tehachapi.

                                                  Click & voila!

                                                  Sorry Jeffery if we strayed from topic, but we Tehachapi fans tend
                                                  to be a little fanatical. & a near scale Z Tehachapi layput would
                                                  make a fine feature for at least one of our RR magazines.

                                                  Bill
                                                  El Toro
                                                  Jay call 768-3997


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                                                • Jeff Calhoun
                                                  Newbie here; my first post. I despise the awful Marklin track - as bad as the Atlas HO track when I was a boy. Impossible to keep engines running smoothly.
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , May 7, 2003
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                                                    Newbie here; my first post. I despise the awful
                                                    Marklin track - as bad as the Atlas HO track when I
                                                    was a boy. Impossible to keep engines running
                                                    smoothly.
                                                    That is "code 40"? I am not familiar with any of the
                                                    brands mentioned except Marklin. What is MT
                                                    flextrack?

                                                    I have a small outfit (Sonnalpe) and have even
                                                    soldered track together -- and even though I have
                                                    never yet run any cars on it, just my 2 engines, it
                                                    hesitates. This is brand new stuff.

                                                    --- de Champeaux Dominique <ddechamp71@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > --- Malcolm Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> a
                                                    > �crit�:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Zeds,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I have been a "lurker" for some time. I have
                                                    > > always been interested in
                                                    > > model trains, got some of the original N scale
                                                    > when
                                                    > > it first came out.
                                                    > > My son and daughter knew I was interested in Z and
                                                    > > several years ago got
                                                    > > me a MicroTrains starter. Since then I have
                                                    > > accumulated about 80 cars,
                                                    > > some AZL Dash Nines and assorted track (Peco, MTL
                                                    > > and Haberman: code 40
                                                    > > carried by Aspen, was Halwa). I want to model
                                                    > > modern -- BNSF the late
                                                    > > 90s, just after the BN-ATSF merger. I have been
                                                    > > working on expanding my
                                                    > > library and accumulating ideas for a big layout.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The main problem this scale has is the lack of a
                                                    > > good, affordable track/
                                                    > > switch system, no bigger than code 40 rail. The
                                                    > > Marklin track and
                                                    > > couplers make Marklin trains look like toys IMHO,
                                                    > > far from prototypical (I
                                                    > > apologize to the Marklin devotees, maybe I aspire
                                                    > to
                                                    > > be a rivet counter).
                                                    > > Give me some code 40 flex track and affordable
                                                    > > switches and I'll be happy
                                                    > > to make my own roadbed and ballast it. When I say
                                                    > > affordable -- well, 2
                                                    > > switches and less than 20' of Haberman track cost
                                                    > > almost $200. That's
                                                    > > <not> affordable for a real layout.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > What's on my workbench? I'm building a 28'x40'
                                                    > > shop building with a
                                                    > > full bathroom. My daughter got me a sign to put
                                                    > > over the door that says
                                                    > > "Dad's Doghouse". After more than a year I have
                                                    > it
                                                    > > weathered in and the
                                                    > > plumbing and most of the wiring installed and
                                                    > passed
                                                    > > inspection. Once
                                                    > > it's done, then I get to do my train building.
                                                    > I'm
                                                    > > dreaming of 30'x60'.
                                                    > > I won't do that myself. I'll get a local
                                                    > contractor
                                                    > > to put up a steel
                                                    > > building for me.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Regards,
                                                    > > Malcolm
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Malcolm, and welcome here! How many turnouts do
                                                    > you
                                                    > intend to have on your layout? A good way to lower
                                                    > their price should be using Peter Wright Nn3
                                                    > turnouts
                                                    > (diverging track radius:490mm -sorry for the
                                                    > conversion in inches but I'm lacking energy this
                                                    > morning!-, like Marklin), but straight track after
                                                    > the
                                                    > frog (like any serious turnout wichever the scale):
                                                    > I've ordered 10 of them for a price of 240 Euros
                                                    > (USD), so not a very higher price than Marklin
                                                    > turnouts, and they are very nice; you just have to
                                                    > file a little bit the end of the ties so they match
                                                    > standard gauge size. And about track, I think the
                                                    > best
                                                    > way to have prototypical track is using MT
                                                    > flextrack:
                                                    > I've currently 11 packages, plus 5 in order for my
                                                    > soon starting Tehachapi Pass.
                                                    > Cheers
                                                    > Dominique
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    >
                                                  • de Champeaux Dominique
                                                    Hi Jeff: MT flextrack: Micro-Trains (made in Oregon)flextrack, north-american with prototypically spaced ties, and something like code 50 rail: a little too
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , May 8, 2003
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                                                      Hi Jeff:
                                                      MT flextrack: Micro-Trains (made in Oregon)flextrack,
                                                      north-american with prototypically spaced ties, and
                                                      something like code 50 rail: a little too high, but
                                                      fine looking anyway.
                                                      Cheers
                                                      Dominique

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