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Re: [z_scale] Any Good Tips For Reseating Gears, 4-6-2

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  • dpstripe@aol.com
    I can only reccomend patience. And maybe alcohol. And maybe sedatives. It just takes a lot of trial and error. Being off by one tooth can mean a lot. Just take
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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      I can only reccomend patience. And maybe alcohol. And maybe sedatives. It
      just takes a lot of trial and error. Being off by one tooth can mean a lot.
      Just take your time, you'll get it. I made a jig to hold the chassis in a
      vice to help stabilize the work a bit. Good luck.
      Dan S.

      In a message dated 4/2/03 4:31:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      jcubbin@... writes:

      > Hi,
      >
      > I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck of a
      > time getting the gears to really sit well. I have aligned the side rods
      > so they are all level, yet many times upon attempting to run the loco,
      > the gears would bind up almost immediately. More than once I would
      > reseat the gears and there would be a pronounced "thump" as the train
      > ran. The subtleties involved here are really surprising me.
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jmac_han
      John, See Garth Hamilton s reseating locomotive wheelset method in the FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/files/FAQ/ Hope that is of some help. Jeffrey
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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        John,

        See Garth Hamilton's reseating locomotive wheelset method in
        the FAQ:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/files/FAQ/

        Hope that is of some help.
        Jeffrey

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...>
        wrote:
        > Hi,
        >
        > I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck
        of a
      • John Cubbin
        Hi Dan, I d like to ask you a question on this gear reseating business. I read the Garth Hamilton FAQ (Thanks Jeffrey) where he says he removes the side rods
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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          Hi Dan,

          I'd like to ask you a question on this gear reseating business. I read
          the Garth Hamilton FAQ (Thanks Jeffrey) where he says he removes the
          side rods from the wheel sets to reseat his gears.... do you do this as
          well? I would think this runs a really high chance of bending a side rod
          or the rod's holding pin.

          I imagine this is how they are initially assembled at the factory, as
          attempting to install the gears with the side rods in place just
          wouldn't be a cost effective method. Are the side rod's holding pins
          just snug fit, or are they actually some type of rivet that expands and
          locks itself in place in the wheel?

          If you do remove the side rods, how do you remove the holding pins in
          those rods?

          Since I posted this question last night, I have reseated the gears (a
          few times!) and the loco is actually running smoother at low (app. 1.2
          volts) speeds than it did out of the box. Still, if there's a way to
          more effective way to do this I'd like to know.

          Thanks,
          John
          http://www.ztrains.com
        • superchip62
          Hi guys, I had good reason to pull apart my 2-10-0 Loco the other night (8884) and It was real fun! trying to reset all the cogs and stuff! I found that by
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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            Hi guys, I had good reason to pull apart my 2-10-0 Loco the other
            night (8884) and It was real fun! trying to reset all the cogs and
            stuff! I found that by lifting the individual axle and jiggling it
            the wheels could be made to align. As a reference I set the front
            wheel counterbalance at a determined point (i.e 12 o'clock) then
            gently lifted the others in turn to align as above. In some cases I
            had to remove the intermedeate cog and the pop it back. The biggest
            gripe was the weel contacts that would pop out if the axle was
            lifted too high. You need a fair bit of patience, infact a lot of
            patience, and the ability to hold your breath for long periods!!

            So nice to have a part

            Nick (UK)






            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
            > Hi,
            >
            > I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck
            of a
            > time getting the gears to really sit well. I have aligned the side
            rods
            > so they are all level, yet many times upon attempting to run the
            loco,
            > the gears would bind up almost immediately. More than once I would
            > reseat the gears and there would be a pronounced "thump" as the
            train
            > ran. The subtleties involved here are really surprising me.
            >
            > Does anyone have a preferred method for reseating the gears cleanly
            > right off the bat, or is this just a matter of playing with the
            gears
            > until they mesh just so? I haven't run into this with any of my
            #8803s,
            > they seem to fall right into place, but this 4-6-2 Pacific is a
            good
            > deal more challenging.
            >
            > Any thoughts or tips appreciated.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > John
            > http://www.ztrains.com
          • kimvellore
            John, Dont remove the side rods because it goes back to the same location after you remove it and will not help if misalligned. I remove and install the gears
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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              John,
              Dont remove the side rods because it goes back to the same
              location after you remove it and will not help if misalligned.

              I remove and install the gears all the time it takes me a few minutes
              to put it back together. I will try to explain the way I do it.

              First remove the motor and the worm gear if there are any in between
              the motor and the wheels.

              Now you can spin the wheels freely to check if it is binding or not.
              I will start with all the gears removed.

              First install the three gears with the wheels and side rods and
              allign the side rods so they are straight.

              Now you have two more gears to install in between. Start with the end
              closest to the motor and keeping one wheel fixed (the last one close
              to the motor) insert the gear in between. you will see the center
              wheel turn a little during the process, this is the amount of
              missalignment. Now still keeping the last wheel fixed spin the center
              wheeel in the opposite direction the center gear will come out from
              its location when you do this continue to spin in the same direction
              so it slips one or two gear sprocket with respect to the center gear.
              Spin the center wheel back so the three gears are set (you still have
              to keep the last wheel from spinning) and the side rods are still
              straight and free.

              Repeat the same process now keeping the center wheel fixed. You will
              get a hang of it after you get it right once. now put back the gear
              cover (oil pan?) and spin the wheels to make sure there is no
              binding. if there is it is usually the last wheel you worked on so
              repear the process of alligning the gear till it is set right.

              If you still have problems I can make up some pictures and describe
              it.
              Kim



              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
              > Hi Dan,
              >
              > I'd like to ask you a question on this gear reseating business. I
              read
              > the Garth Hamilton FAQ (Thanks Jeffrey) where he says he removes the
              > side rods from the wheel sets to reseat his gears.... do you do
              this as
              > well? I would think this runs a really high chance of bending a
              side rod
              > or the rod's holding pin.
              >
              > I imagine this is how they are initially assembled at the factory,
              as
              > attempting to install the gears with the side rods in place just
              > wouldn't be a cost effective method. Are the side rod's holding pins
              > just snug fit, or are they actually some type of rivet that expands
              and
              > locks itself in place in the wheel?
              >
              > If you do remove the side rods, how do you remove the holding pins
              in
              > those rods?
              >
              > Since I posted this question last night, I have reseated the gears
              (a
              > few times!) and the loco is actually running smoother at low (app.
              1.2
              > volts) speeds than it did out of the box. Still, if there's a way to
              > more effective way to do this I'd like to know.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > John
              > http://www.ztrains.com
            • uptoolateny
              Hi Kim, As I write this I m in the process of following your instructions. I have to wait a moment for the old soldering iron to heat as I accidently broke one
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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                Hi Kim,

                As I write this I'm in the process of following your instructions. I have to wait a moment for the old soldering iron
                to heat as I accidently broke one of the capicator's solder joints as I was seating the gears! I use David Karp's
                method of removing and replacing the motor on a steam engine so normally I don't need any soldering, I just
                slip the new motor onto the exsisting capacitor.

                One thing I have noticed, after lining up the side rods very evenly, I can turn the loco chassis around and see
                that the side rods on the opposite side are not all sitting in quite as nice a horizontal plane. I have run the
                wheels and I don't detect any binding at all. I imagine that fact that the side rods can be perfectly level on one
                side and not quite so perfectly level on the other is just a manufacturing tolerance?

                I'll post back when I'm up and running!

                Thanks Kim,
                John
                http://www.ztrains.com
              • John Cubbin
                Hi Kim, I appreciate your earlier email detailing your method of reseating the gears. As I wrote earlier, I accidentally broke one of the solder joints on the
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 3, 2003
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                  Hi Kim,

                  I appreciate your earlier email detailing your method of reseating the
                  gears. As I wrote earlier, I accidentally broke one of the solder joints
                  on the capacitor when I removed the motor. Having soldered that back in
                  place, I went ahead with the gears. After all were in place correctly, I
                  found it very tricky to then get everything to slide into place:

                  1) The worm gear into the chassis and motor
                  2) The ends of the capacitor into both sets of holes in the motor
                  3) Making sure the pan on the gears didn't slip while I reassembled

                  I did replace the screw on the front of the oil pan, but without that
                  rear (pan & motor) screw in place, the pan can still move around a bit
                  and one of the gears can slip out of position. After it was all
                  assembled I placed it on the track, and the gears were binding
                  immediately. Rather than remove the motor again, I removed the entire
                  oil pan, and began reseating the gears. Since the worm gear was now in
                  place, I followed your idea of starting with the wheel closest to the
                  motor. After inserting and adjusting the three wheels, I then added the
                  smaller (intermediate?) gears.

                  I'd like to be able to say that was it, all ran smoothly, but it ran
                  with a decided thump! I'm believe from a excessive push / pull force due
                  to the side rods not being aligned just right. Since everything was
                  pretty much assembled at this point, I was able to again just quickly
                  remove the oil pan, make a minor adjustment to a gear or two, and try
                  that out. After a couple of attempts this way, all fell into place
                  nicely. The loco has been running for a couple of hours now, without
                  question it's running smoother than when I started this whole process. I
                  should also note that this is a brand new loco, all of a couple of days
                  old. I find that a little puzzling also, but that's a story for another
                  day.

                  The biggest question I have is the one I mentioned earlier... why, when
                  the side rods on one side of the loco are absolutely straight, the rods
                  on the other side of the loco are off just a bit. I'm guessing that that
                  this is just a manufacturing tolerance. If that is so, then there is a
                  bit of tweaking to be done to maximize a loco's (every loco's)
                  performance?

                  It's been a fun project, and the 4-6-2 is running great....

                  Again thanks for your advice here!

                  John
                  http://www.ztrains.com
                • John Engbers
                  In the PROTOTYPE THE siderods have to be off center or the engine will get stuck. The local Shortline, Middletown and New Jersey had that problem with one of
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 3, 2003
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                    In the PROTOTYPE THE siderods have to be off center or the engine will get stuck. The local Shortline, Middletown and New Jersey had that problem with one of their steamers. Regards, John Engbers.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: John Cubbin
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:26 AM
                    Subject: [z_scale] Re: Any Good Tips For Reseating Gears, 4-6-2


                    Hi Kim,

                    I appreciate your earlier email detailing your method of reseating the
                    gears. As I wrote earlier, I accidentally broke one of the solder joints
                    on the capacitor when I removed the motor. Having soldered that back in
                    place, I went ahead with the gears. After all were in place correctly, I
                    found it very tricky to then get everything to slide into place:

                    1) The worm gear into the chassis and motor
                    2) The ends of the capacitor into both sets of holes in the motor
                    3) Making sure the pan on the gears didn't slip while I reassembled

                    I did replace the screw on the front of the oil pan, but without that
                    rear (pan & motor) screw in place, the pan can still move around a bit
                    and one of the gears can slip out of position. After it was all
                    assembled I placed it on the track, and the gears were binding
                    immediately. Rather than remove the motor again, I removed the entire
                    oil pan, and began reseating the gears. Since the worm gear was now in
                    place, I followed your idea of starting with the wheel closest to the
                    motor. After inserting and adjusting the three wheels, I then added the
                    smaller (intermediate?) gears.

                    I'd like to be able to say that was it, all ran smoothly, but it ran
                    with a decided thump! I'm believe from a excessive push / pull force due
                    to the side rods not being aligned just right. Since everything was
                    pretty much assembled at this point, I was able to again just quickly
                    remove the oil pan, make a minor adjustment to a gear or two, and try
                    that out. After a couple of attempts this way, all fell into place
                    nicely. The loco has been running for a couple of hours now, without
                    question it's running smoother than when I started this whole process. I
                    should also note that this is a brand new loco, all of a couple of days
                    old. I find that a little puzzling also, but that's a story for another
                    day.

                    The biggest question I have is the one I mentioned earlier... why, when
                    the side rods on one side of the loco are absolutely straight, the rods
                    on the other side of the loco are off just a bit. I'm guessing that that
                    this is just a manufacturing tolerance. If that is so, then there is a
                    bit of tweaking to be done to maximize a loco's (every loco's)
                    performance?

                    It's been a fun project, and the 4-6-2 is running great....

                    Again thanks for your advice here!

                    John
                    http://www.ztrains.com


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