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Any Good Tips For Reseating Gears, 4-6-2

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  • John Cubbin
    Hi, I ve been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck of a time getting the gears to really sit well. I have aligned the side rods so they are
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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      Hi,

      I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck of a
      time getting the gears to really sit well. I have aligned the side rods
      so they are all level, yet many times upon attempting to run the loco,
      the gears would bind up almost immediately. More than once I would
      reseat the gears and there would be a pronounced "thump" as the train
      ran. The subtleties involved here are really surprising me.

      Does anyone have a preferred method for reseating the gears cleanly
      right off the bat, or is this just a matter of playing with the gears
      until they mesh just so? I haven't run into this with any of my #8803s,
      they seem to fall right into place, but this 4-6-2 Pacific is a good
      deal more challenging.

      Any thoughts or tips appreciated.

      Thanks,
      John
      http://www.ztrains.com
    • dpstripe@aol.com
      I can only reccomend patience. And maybe alcohol. And maybe sedatives. It just takes a lot of trial and error. Being off by one tooth can mean a lot. Just take
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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        I can only reccomend patience. And maybe alcohol. And maybe sedatives. It
        just takes a lot of trial and error. Being off by one tooth can mean a lot.
        Just take your time, you'll get it. I made a jig to hold the chassis in a
        vice to help stabilize the work a bit. Good luck.
        Dan S.

        In a message dated 4/2/03 4:31:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        jcubbin@... writes:

        > Hi,
        >
        > I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck of a
        > time getting the gears to really sit well. I have aligned the side rods
        > so they are all level, yet many times upon attempting to run the loco,
        > the gears would bind up almost immediately. More than once I would
        > reseat the gears and there would be a pronounced "thump" as the train
        > ran. The subtleties involved here are really surprising me.
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jmac_han
        John, See Garth Hamilton s reseating locomotive wheelset method in the FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/files/FAQ/ Hope that is of some help. Jeffrey
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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          John,

          See Garth Hamilton's reseating locomotive wheelset method in
          the FAQ:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/files/FAQ/

          Hope that is of some help.
          Jeffrey

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...>
          wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck
          of a
        • John Cubbin
          Hi Dan, I d like to ask you a question on this gear reseating business. I read the Garth Hamilton FAQ (Thanks Jeffrey) where he says he removes the side rods
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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            Hi Dan,

            I'd like to ask you a question on this gear reseating business. I read
            the Garth Hamilton FAQ (Thanks Jeffrey) where he says he removes the
            side rods from the wheel sets to reseat his gears.... do you do this as
            well? I would think this runs a really high chance of bending a side rod
            or the rod's holding pin.

            I imagine this is how they are initially assembled at the factory, as
            attempting to install the gears with the side rods in place just
            wouldn't be a cost effective method. Are the side rod's holding pins
            just snug fit, or are they actually some type of rivet that expands and
            locks itself in place in the wheel?

            If you do remove the side rods, how do you remove the holding pins in
            those rods?

            Since I posted this question last night, I have reseated the gears (a
            few times!) and the loco is actually running smoother at low (app. 1.2
            volts) speeds than it did out of the box. Still, if there's a way to
            more effective way to do this I'd like to know.

            Thanks,
            John
            http://www.ztrains.com
          • superchip62
            Hi guys, I had good reason to pull apart my 2-10-0 Loco the other night (8884) and It was real fun! trying to reset all the cogs and stuff! I found that by
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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              Hi guys, I had good reason to pull apart my 2-10-0 Loco the other
              night (8884) and It was real fun! trying to reset all the cogs and
              stuff! I found that by lifting the individual axle and jiggling it
              the wheels could be made to align. As a reference I set the front
              wheel counterbalance at a determined point (i.e 12 o'clock) then
              gently lifted the others in turn to align as above. In some cases I
              had to remove the intermedeate cog and the pop it back. The biggest
              gripe was the weel contacts that would pop out if the axle was
              lifted too high. You need a fair bit of patience, infact a lot of
              patience, and the ability to hold your breath for long periods!!

              So nice to have a part

              Nick (UK)






              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
              > Hi,
              >
              > I've been playing a bit with a 4-6-2 Pacific and have had a heck
              of a
              > time getting the gears to really sit well. I have aligned the side
              rods
              > so they are all level, yet many times upon attempting to run the
              loco,
              > the gears would bind up almost immediately. More than once I would
              > reseat the gears and there would be a pronounced "thump" as the
              train
              > ran. The subtleties involved here are really surprising me.
              >
              > Does anyone have a preferred method for reseating the gears cleanly
              > right off the bat, or is this just a matter of playing with the
              gears
              > until they mesh just so? I haven't run into this with any of my
              #8803s,
              > they seem to fall right into place, but this 4-6-2 Pacific is a
              good
              > deal more challenging.
              >
              > Any thoughts or tips appreciated.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > John
              > http://www.ztrains.com
            • kimvellore
              John, Dont remove the side rods because it goes back to the same location after you remove it and will not help if misalligned. I remove and install the gears
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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                John,
                Dont remove the side rods because it goes back to the same
                location after you remove it and will not help if misalligned.

                I remove and install the gears all the time it takes me a few minutes
                to put it back together. I will try to explain the way I do it.

                First remove the motor and the worm gear if there are any in between
                the motor and the wheels.

                Now you can spin the wheels freely to check if it is binding or not.
                I will start with all the gears removed.

                First install the three gears with the wheels and side rods and
                allign the side rods so they are straight.

                Now you have two more gears to install in between. Start with the end
                closest to the motor and keeping one wheel fixed (the last one close
                to the motor) insert the gear in between. you will see the center
                wheel turn a little during the process, this is the amount of
                missalignment. Now still keeping the last wheel fixed spin the center
                wheeel in the opposite direction the center gear will come out from
                its location when you do this continue to spin in the same direction
                so it slips one or two gear sprocket with respect to the center gear.
                Spin the center wheel back so the three gears are set (you still have
                to keep the last wheel from spinning) and the side rods are still
                straight and free.

                Repeat the same process now keeping the center wheel fixed. You will
                get a hang of it after you get it right once. now put back the gear
                cover (oil pan?) and spin the wheels to make sure there is no
                binding. if there is it is usually the last wheel you worked on so
                repear the process of alligning the gear till it is set right.

                If you still have problems I can make up some pictures and describe
                it.
                Kim



                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, John Cubbin <jcubbin@o...> wrote:
                > Hi Dan,
                >
                > I'd like to ask you a question on this gear reseating business. I
                read
                > the Garth Hamilton FAQ (Thanks Jeffrey) where he says he removes the
                > side rods from the wheel sets to reseat his gears.... do you do
                this as
                > well? I would think this runs a really high chance of bending a
                side rod
                > or the rod's holding pin.
                >
                > I imagine this is how they are initially assembled at the factory,
                as
                > attempting to install the gears with the side rods in place just
                > wouldn't be a cost effective method. Are the side rod's holding pins
                > just snug fit, or are they actually some type of rivet that expands
                and
                > locks itself in place in the wheel?
                >
                > If you do remove the side rods, how do you remove the holding pins
                in
                > those rods?
                >
                > Since I posted this question last night, I have reseated the gears
                (a
                > few times!) and the loco is actually running smoother at low (app.
                1.2
                > volts) speeds than it did out of the box. Still, if there's a way to
                > more effective way to do this I'd like to know.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > John
                > http://www.ztrains.com
              • uptoolateny
                Hi Kim, As I write this I m in the process of following your instructions. I have to wait a moment for the old soldering iron to heat as I accidently broke one
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 2, 2003
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                  Hi Kim,

                  As I write this I'm in the process of following your instructions. I have to wait a moment for the old soldering iron
                  to heat as I accidently broke one of the capicator's solder joints as I was seating the gears! I use David Karp's
                  method of removing and replacing the motor on a steam engine so normally I don't need any soldering, I just
                  slip the new motor onto the exsisting capacitor.

                  One thing I have noticed, after lining up the side rods very evenly, I can turn the loco chassis around and see
                  that the side rods on the opposite side are not all sitting in quite as nice a horizontal plane. I have run the
                  wheels and I don't detect any binding at all. I imagine that fact that the side rods can be perfectly level on one
                  side and not quite so perfectly level on the other is just a manufacturing tolerance?

                  I'll post back when I'm up and running!

                  Thanks Kim,
                  John
                  http://www.ztrains.com
                • John Cubbin
                  Hi Kim, I appreciate your earlier email detailing your method of reseating the gears. As I wrote earlier, I accidentally broke one of the solder joints on the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 3, 2003
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                    Hi Kim,

                    I appreciate your earlier email detailing your method of reseating the
                    gears. As I wrote earlier, I accidentally broke one of the solder joints
                    on the capacitor when I removed the motor. Having soldered that back in
                    place, I went ahead with the gears. After all were in place correctly, I
                    found it very tricky to then get everything to slide into place:

                    1) The worm gear into the chassis and motor
                    2) The ends of the capacitor into both sets of holes in the motor
                    3) Making sure the pan on the gears didn't slip while I reassembled

                    I did replace the screw on the front of the oil pan, but without that
                    rear (pan & motor) screw in place, the pan can still move around a bit
                    and one of the gears can slip out of position. After it was all
                    assembled I placed it on the track, and the gears were binding
                    immediately. Rather than remove the motor again, I removed the entire
                    oil pan, and began reseating the gears. Since the worm gear was now in
                    place, I followed your idea of starting with the wheel closest to the
                    motor. After inserting and adjusting the three wheels, I then added the
                    smaller (intermediate?) gears.

                    I'd like to be able to say that was it, all ran smoothly, but it ran
                    with a decided thump! I'm believe from a excessive push / pull force due
                    to the side rods not being aligned just right. Since everything was
                    pretty much assembled at this point, I was able to again just quickly
                    remove the oil pan, make a minor adjustment to a gear or two, and try
                    that out. After a couple of attempts this way, all fell into place
                    nicely. The loco has been running for a couple of hours now, without
                    question it's running smoother than when I started this whole process. I
                    should also note that this is a brand new loco, all of a couple of days
                    old. I find that a little puzzling also, but that's a story for another
                    day.

                    The biggest question I have is the one I mentioned earlier... why, when
                    the side rods on one side of the loco are absolutely straight, the rods
                    on the other side of the loco are off just a bit. I'm guessing that that
                    this is just a manufacturing tolerance. If that is so, then there is a
                    bit of tweaking to be done to maximize a loco's (every loco's)
                    performance?

                    It's been a fun project, and the 4-6-2 is running great....

                    Again thanks for your advice here!

                    John
                    http://www.ztrains.com
                  • John Engbers
                    In the PROTOTYPE THE siderods have to be off center or the engine will get stuck. The local Shortline, Middletown and New Jersey had that problem with one of
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 3, 2003
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                      In the PROTOTYPE THE siderods have to be off center or the engine will get stuck. The local Shortline, Middletown and New Jersey had that problem with one of their steamers. Regards, John Engbers.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: John Cubbin
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:26 AM
                      Subject: [z_scale] Re: Any Good Tips For Reseating Gears, 4-6-2


                      Hi Kim,

                      I appreciate your earlier email detailing your method of reseating the
                      gears. As I wrote earlier, I accidentally broke one of the solder joints
                      on the capacitor when I removed the motor. Having soldered that back in
                      place, I went ahead with the gears. After all were in place correctly, I
                      found it very tricky to then get everything to slide into place:

                      1) The worm gear into the chassis and motor
                      2) The ends of the capacitor into both sets of holes in the motor
                      3) Making sure the pan on the gears didn't slip while I reassembled

                      I did replace the screw on the front of the oil pan, but without that
                      rear (pan & motor) screw in place, the pan can still move around a bit
                      and one of the gears can slip out of position. After it was all
                      assembled I placed it on the track, and the gears were binding
                      immediately. Rather than remove the motor again, I removed the entire
                      oil pan, and began reseating the gears. Since the worm gear was now in
                      place, I followed your idea of starting with the wheel closest to the
                      motor. After inserting and adjusting the three wheels, I then added the
                      smaller (intermediate?) gears.

                      I'd like to be able to say that was it, all ran smoothly, but it ran
                      with a decided thump! I'm believe from a excessive push / pull force due
                      to the side rods not being aligned just right. Since everything was
                      pretty much assembled at this point, I was able to again just quickly
                      remove the oil pan, make a minor adjustment to a gear or two, and try
                      that out. After a couple of attempts this way, all fell into place
                      nicely. The loco has been running for a couple of hours now, without
                      question it's running smoother than when I started this whole process. I
                      should also note that this is a brand new loco, all of a couple of days
                      old. I find that a little puzzling also, but that's a story for another
                      day.

                      The biggest question I have is the one I mentioned earlier... why, when
                      the side rods on one side of the loco are absolutely straight, the rods
                      on the other side of the loco are off just a bit. I'm guessing that that
                      this is just a manufacturing tolerance. If that is so, then there is a
                      bit of tweaking to be done to maximize a loco's (every loco's)
                      performance?

                      It's been a fun project, and the 4-6-2 is running great....

                      Again thanks for your advice here!

                      John
                      http://www.ztrains.com


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