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shells for 88476 loco

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  • scott <clockdragger2000@yahoo.com>
    Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the early 80 s a shell
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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      Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look
      of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the
      early 80's a shell you could purchase to make Marklin Diesel and
      Electric locos resemble American equipment. Picked up the engine used
      this week. I'm also think of modifiying it to resemble a Milwaukee
      Road electric engine. Anybody try that yet?
    • Randy Smidt
      I don t know anything about these shells or conversions, but I am very interested also. Randy Smidt ... From: scott
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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        I don't know anything about these shells or conversions, but I am very interested also.

        Randy Smidt
        -------Original Message-------
        From: "scott <clockdragger2000@...>" <clockdragger2000@...>
        Sent: 02/25/03 04:19 PM
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [z_scale] shells for 88476 loco

        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • zbendtrack@aol.com
        Clockdragger and others: Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look ... Your question is timely. The Narrow Gauge and Short
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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          "Clockdragger" and others:


          Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look >
          > of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the
          > early 80's a shell you could purchase to make Marklin Diesel and
          > Electric locos resemble American equipment.

          Your question is timely. The "Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette" Magazine
          for Jan/Feb 2003 has the early history of Z scale on page 87. The article
          reports on Nelson Gray's efforts in 1977 to cut a die master for an F7 shell
          that fit over a Marklin chassis. But it was not until 1980 that a few shells
          actually were produced.

          On a much faster track, Nelson was able to machine dies for a series of
          freight cars, which ultimately were purchased by MicroTrains, and are the
          basis for the products we buy today.

          However, MicroTrains did not use Nelson's dies for a Marklin F7 conversion,
          rather, they made their own F7 locomotive frame and shell (which is larger in
          size). I do not know personally, where the Marklin dies went. But I've not
          seen any advertisements for the Marklin shells since I became aware of Z
          scale in the mid-1990's.

          Until February 11th. That's when this item went up on eBay: Nelson Gray - Z
          scale F7A Diesel shell Item # 3114819354

          I absolute could not believe there were only two bidders on this treasure of
          the history of Z scale. Fortunately, the winning bid was mine. Its always
          possible that another one will turn up, so keep watching.

          Bill K.
          Houston







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • The Prez
          Bill, I guess to have another one of those shells, at least it is identical to the shell you won (you were lucky since I missed the opportunity to bid for few
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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            Bill, I guess to have another one of those shells, at least it is identical to the shell you won (you were lucky since I missed the opportunity to bid for few minutes :-)) ). I did not its story, it has now the front plow broken and I am using it for painting tests, the problem was that it does not fit well in any marklin or MTL chassis I have although it seems closer to the MTL ones, the 88476 should have the standard B-B chassis of the MKL , correct?
            Which chassis are you using exactly?

            Alex

            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            The power of love, as the basis of a State, has never been tried.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



            Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look >
            > of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the
            > early 80's a shell you could purchase to make Marklin Diesel and
            > Electric locos resemble American equipment.

            Your question is timely. The "Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette" Magazine
            for Jan/Feb 2003 has the early history of Z scale on page 87. The article
            reports on Nelson Gray's efforts in 1977 to cut a die master for an F7 shell
            that fit over a Marklin chassis. But it was not until 1980 that a few shells
            actually were produced.

            On a much faster track, Nelson was able to machine dies for a series of
            freight cars, which ultimately were purchased by MicroTrains, and are the
            basis for the products we buy today.

            However, MicroTrains did not use Nelson's dies for a Marklin F7 conversion,
            rather, they made their own F7 locomotive frame and shell (which is larger in
            size). I do not know personally, where the Marklin dies went. But I've not
            seen any advertisements for the Marklin shells since I became aware of Z
            scale in the mid-1990's.

            Until February 11th. That's when this item went up on eBay: Nelson Gray - Z
            scale F7A Diesel shell Item # 3114819354

            I absolute could not believe there were only two bidders on this treasure of
            the history of Z scale. Fortunately, the winning bid was mine. Its always
            possible that another one will turn up, so keep watching.

            Bill K.
            Houston



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • zbendtrack@aol.com
            ... ... 99.99999% percent of the time, I m a runner. There is no factory air inside of any of the plastic boxes that my locomotives and cars came in.
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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              Alex:

              > Bill, I guess to have another one of those shells, at least it is identical
              > to the shell you won
              <snip>
              > Which chassis are you using exactly?
              >
              99.99999% percent of the time, I'm a runner. There is no "factory air"
              inside of any of the plastic boxes that my locomotives and cars came in. All
              wheels clearly show my locomotives and cars are runners.

              But THIS shell is going into a vacuumed sealed glass container, inside a
              vault, high atop my "shrine" to Z scale's USA beginnings. Sorry, it will
              never run. <smile> Thank you, Nelson, for starting all this.

              Bill K.
              Houston



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jmac_han <jmac_han@yahoo.com>
              Hi Bill, Do you have the NGSL issue handy? Who is the author, how many photos and pages? This is for our article database. Cheers, Jeffrey
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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                Hi Bill,

                Do you have the NGSL issue handy? Who is the author, how
                many photos and pages? This is for our article database.

                Cheers,
                Jeffrey
              • zbendtrack@aol.com
                ... No problem: Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette, $4.95 US, $6.94 CA, $5.95 Others Jan/Feb 2003 Issue, pages 87-89 (full pages), 14 illustrations Article by
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 25, 2003
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                  Jeffrey:

                  > Do you have the NGSL issue handy? Who is the author, how
                  > many photos and pages? This is for our article database.

                  No problem:

                  Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette, $4.95 US, $6.94 CA, $5.95 Others
                  Jan/Feb 2003 Issue, pages 87-89 (full pages), 14 illustrations
                  Article by Steve A. Scheighofer: "Models by Nelson W. Gray"
                  Covers Nelson's contributions (1", Nn3, Z) from 1950-present

                  For those not familiar with 1" to the foot scale, those are the trains you
                  ride on top of, outside. Nelson's work from 1950 through 1977 was focused on
                  that scale. Interestingly, we went from the largest, to the smallest, scale
                  to do his magic in.

                  Regards,
                  Bill K.
                  Houston


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • FR.model@t-online.de
                  ... I m really wondering. There is a guy speaking about Marklin #88476 and there come so many answers. I assume most Z-heads have the Marklin item numbers in
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 26, 2003
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                    "scott <clockdragger2000@...>" <clockdragger2000@...> schrieb:
                    >Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look
                    >of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the
                    >early 80's a shell you could purchase to make Marklin Diesel and
                    >Electric locos resemble American equipment. Picked up the engine used
                    >this week. I'm also think of modifiying it to resemble a Milwaukee
                    >Road electric engine. Anybody try that yet?

                    I'm really wondering. There is a guy speaking about Marklin #88476 and there
                    come so many answers. I assume most Z-heads have the Marklin item numbers in
                    their mind. Although I'm working with Z-scale stuff every day I don't know what a
                    #88476 is. I must look at the list. If there is one talking about a class Re4/4 IV
                    or Re446 electric I know immediately what it is.

                    Concerning the shells:
                    American locos have a complete different design and chassis geometry compared
                    to European locos. The best example for an American shell at an European chassis
                    is Marklin's F7. It looks odd. Most American popular locos need a chassis that
                    can not be taken from European Marklin Z-scale designs. Those few exceptions are
                    less popular and nobody would buy the replacement shell.
                    Since 2001 I posted a conversion kit in my catalog to convert Marklin's German
                    class 86 steamer to a Great Northern class Z1 electric. The design is nearly ready.
                    The etched stainless steel GN-pantograph with double pick up shoe and the
                    remarkable "side wings" is an eye-catcher. After it was posted for one year I
                    received exactly ZERO orders. So it seems the customer demand for replacement
                    shells/kits is no demand. Ready designed items that will never be produced we
                    call in German "Erlkoenig" (alder king). The Z-scale Great Northern Z1 is an
                    Erlkoenig.

                    Harald


                    --
                    FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                    Harald Freudenreich
                    Schwarzer Weg 1B
                    D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

                    phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@... internet: www.fr-model.de
                  • Curtis Campbell
                    Harald, I certainly appreciate your efforts, and did not realize you had actually done designs for a Z1 conversion. You may recall that I was working on a
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 26, 2003
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                      Harald,

                      I certainly appreciate your efforts, and did not realize you had actually
                      done designs for a Z1 conversion. You may recall that I was working on a
                      similar project to produce a PRR L-6 electric. My efforts have stalled
                      because I find that I am not skilled enough with brass yet. Therefore I
                      have been building your kits to acquire the skills. I hope to continue the
                      project, but it will be slow.

                      The problem you may have with the American electrics is demand. Everyone
                      knows the GG1. I doubt that many people really know of that many other
                      types of electric locomotives as the US railrods that used them were very
                      specific. PRR (including PennCentral and Amtrak), GN, Virginian, NH and not
                      too many others with any regularity.

                      We have to remember that to grow z-scale, it is important to get as many
                      people interested as possible. To do that we need to have the most popular
                      rolling stock available in the most popular roads. As the customer base
                      grows in the future, specialty items like the Z1 will become more popular.

                      Without FR, AZL, PennZee and Micro Trains producing high quality US
                      prototypes, I would be modeling in n-scale. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!! I
                      love your CSX coal porter. I will be buying more and Conrail soon.

                      Curtis H. Campbell

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: FR.model@... [mailto:FR.model@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:49 AM
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [z_scale] shells for 88476 loco




                      "scott <clockdragger2000@...>" <clockdragger2000@...> schrieb:
                      >Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look
                      >of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the
                      >early 80's a shell you could purchase to make Marklin Diesel and
                      >Electric locos resemble American equipment. Picked up the engine used
                      >this week. I'm also think of modifiying it to resemble a Milwaukee
                      >Road electric engine. Anybody try that yet?

                      I'm really wondering. There is a guy speaking about Marklin #88476 and there
                      come so many answers. I assume most Z-heads have the Marklin item numbers in
                      their mind. Although I'm working with Z-scale stuff every day I don't know
                      what a
                      #88476 is. I must look at the list. If there is one talking about a class
                      Re4/4 IV
                      or Re446 electric I know immediately what it is.

                      Concerning the shells:
                      American locos have a complete different design and chassis geometry
                      compared
                      to European locos. The best example for an American shell at an European
                      chassis
                      is Marklin's F7. It looks odd. Most American popular locos need a chassis
                      that
                      can not be taken from European Marklin Z-scale designs. Those few exceptions
                      are
                      less popular and nobody would buy the replacement shell.
                      Since 2001 I posted a conversion kit in my catalog to convert Marklin's
                      German
                      class 86 steamer to a Great Northern class Z1 electric. The design is nearly
                      ready.
                      The etched stainless steel GN-pantograph with double pick up shoe and the
                      remarkable "side wings" is an eye-catcher. After it was posted for one year
                      I
                      received exactly ZERO orders. So it seems the customer demand for
                      replacement
                      shells/kits is no demand. Ready designed items that will never be produced
                      we
                      call in German "Erlkoenig" (alder king). The Z-scale Great Northern Z1 is an

                      Erlkoenig.

                      Harald


                      --
                      FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                      Harald Freudenreich
                      Schwarzer Weg 1B
                      D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

                      phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@...
                      internet: www.fr-model.de


                      "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • RanddomZ
                      In 1987 or 1988 ISM also produced metal body shells of the F-40PH for the Marklin F-7 chassis. Made of Pewter, they looked crude until painted; then they
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 26, 2003
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                        In 1987 or 1988 ISM also produced metal body shells of the F-40PH for
                        the Marklin F-7 chassis. Made of Pewter, they looked crude until
                        painted; then they looked acceptable for the $20 retail price. because
                        they weigh 20+ grams, the shells made a massive performance differance
                        on the Marklin F unit chassis.

                        "scott " wrote:

                        > Does anybody make, or were there shells available to modify the look
                        > of the Marklin #88476 electric locomotive. I seem to remember in the
                        > early 80's a shell you could purchase to make Marklin Diesel and
                        > Electric locos resemble American equipment. Picked up the engine used
                        > this week. I'm also think of modifiying it to resemble a Milwaukee
                        > Road electric engine. Anybody try that yet?
                      • FR.model@t-online.de
                        ... Curtis, I understand that the GG1 is one of the most popular locos. But a Z-scale GG1 requires a complete set of new tools. Nothing can be taken from any
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                          "Curtis Campbell" <ccampbell@...> wrote:

                          >The problem you may have with the American electrics is demand. Everyone
                          >knows the GG1. I doubt that many people really know of that many other
                          >types of electric locomotives as the US railrods that used them were very
                          >specific. PRR (including PennCentral and Amtrak), GN, Virginian, NH and not
                          >too many others with any regularity.

                          Curtis,
                          I understand that the GG1 is one of the most popular locos. But a Z-scale
                          GG1 requires a complete set of new tools. Nothing can be taken from any
                          other designs (including the pantographs). But the demand is much too less
                          to justify the tooling costs.
                          So we have the choice to enlarge the fleet with either cripple shells, less
                          popular but perfect locomotives, purchase high price limited fine AZL-locos
                          or waiting for a wonder.

                          I think the second and third is the best. Four years ago nearly nobody knew
                          what a box cab oil electric is. Now 50% of American Z-modeler know it and may
                          be 5% have it. And they are sadisfied and have fun. This model requires high
                          assembly costs but needed very low design costs. It is the most economical
                          FR- loco design.

                          Yes, it is possible to make a FT, F3 or F9 shell fitting for the MT-chassis.
                          But I think a good FT, F3 or F9 looks closer to an F7 than a Marklin F7.
                          So does it really make sense?
                          Let me make jokes about cripple locos because I personally hate them. This is not
                          the right way to make Z-scale more popular.
                          Making a Baldwin or ALCO loco based on the MT-chassis means a new truck frame.
                          Or imagine a Baldwin or ALCO with Blomberg style trucks! The only way to get
                          new trucks is a new injection mold tool at $7,000.00 minimum if you have a low
                          cost tool maker (for the truck frame only!). Is there anyone willing to do
                          economical suicide?
                          Sorry, but z_scale polls have nearly no influence at decissions for FR or any
                          other serious manufacturer's new model designs. These wish lists are far away
                          from any technical and economical understanding.

                          My two Euro Cents

                          Harald

                          --
                          FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                          Harald Freudenreich
                          Schwarzer Weg 1B
                          D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

                          phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@... internet: www.fr-model.de
                        • Curtis Campbell
                          Harald, I definately agree with you, I hope you know that. While Marklin is the pioneer of Z, their American prototypes have a lot of deficiencies. Their
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                            Harald,

                            I definately agree with you, I hope you know that. While Marklin is the
                            pioneer of Z, their American prototypes have a lot of deficiencies. Their
                            European stuff is excellent. But they try to shape American rolling stock
                            on their european frames. The 2-8-2 and 4-6-0 use the same boiler shells
                            and they don't match up with any prototype. The Marklin F7 is honestly
                            horrible, the trucks are too long as is the unit itself. All the rolling
                            stock (except the passenger cars) are toyish looking because the trucks are
                            set too far in due to the Marklin coupler.

                            The only Marklin cars I really like are the passenger cars. I think they do
                            a fine job with them. But you need to match them up with AZL or Micro
                            Trains locos to look correct.

                            I think that I can speak for the majority of American prototype Z modelers
                            and say a collective thank you to FR, AZL, Micro Trains, PennZee, Micron
                            Art, etc. for producing what you do. The quality is superior, and the
                            selection continues to grow. Please don't do anything that would put you
                            out of business. I agree that the "wish lists" are sometimes outrageous.
                            We all need to wish for the simple basics. Good turnouts would be a start.
                            A basic American steam engine or two like the mikado that was used on
                            multiple railroads so as not to limit demand. Maybe a diesel switcher or
                            two.

                            I have a strong belief that these things are coming. I wish you much
                            success.

                            Thanks...Curtis

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: FR.model@... [mailto:FR.model@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:48 AM
                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [z_scale] shells for 88476 loco




                            "Curtis Campbell" <ccampbell@...> wrote:

                            >The problem you may have with the American electrics is demand. Everyone
                            >knows the GG1. I doubt that many people really know of that many other
                            >types of electric locomotives as the US railrods that used them were very
                            >specific. PRR (including PennCentral and Amtrak), GN, Virginian, NH and
                            not
                            >too many others with any regularity.

                            Curtis,
                            I understand that the GG1 is one of the most popular locos. But a Z-scale
                            GG1 requires a complete set of new tools. Nothing can be taken from any
                            other designs (including the pantographs). But the demand is much too less
                            to justify the tooling costs.
                            So we have the choice to enlarge the fleet with either cripple shells, less
                            popular but perfect locomotives, purchase high price limited fine AZL-locos
                            or waiting for a wonder.

                            I think the second and third is the best. Four years ago nearly nobody knew
                            what a box cab oil electric is. Now 50% of American Z-modeler know it and
                            may
                            be 5% have it. And they are sadisfied and have fun. This model requires high

                            assembly costs but needed very low design costs. It is the most economical
                            FR- loco design.

                            Yes, it is possible to make a FT, F3 or F9 shell fitting for the MT-chassis.
                            But I think a good FT, F3 or F9 looks closer to an F7 than a Marklin F7.
                            So does it really make sense?
                            Let me make jokes about cripple locos because I personally hate them. This
                            is not
                            the right way to make Z-scale more popular.
                            Making a Baldwin or ALCO loco based on the MT-chassis means a new truck
                            frame.
                            Or imagine a Baldwin or ALCO with Blomberg style trucks! The only way to get
                            new trucks is a new injection mold tool at $7,000.00 minimum if you have a
                            low
                            cost tool maker (for the truck frame only!). Is there anyone willing to do
                            economical suicide?
                            Sorry, but z_scale polls have nearly no influence at decissions for FR or
                            any
                            other serious manufacturer's new model designs. These wish lists are far
                            away
                            from any technical and economical understanding.

                            My two Euro Cents

                            Harald

                            --
                            FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                            Harald Freudenreich
                            Schwarzer Weg 1B
                            D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

                            phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@...
                            internet: www.fr-model.de


                            "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • johnengbers@aol.com
                            Not so. Arnold built their GG1 on the chassis of the German Crocodile. regards, John Engbers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                              Not so. Arnold built their GG1 on the chassis of the German Crocodile.
                              regards, John Engbers


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Reynard Wellman
                              Hello Curtis, Harald, I agree, the Marklin F7 is weird looking as are the Mikado and Pacific. But since these were the only US style locos available in Z scale
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                                Hello Curtis, Harald,

                                I agree, the Marklin F7 is weird looking as are the
                                Mikado and Pacific. But since these were the only
                                US style locos available in Z scale for at least 15 years,
                                we could not complain. Aspen Models has a
                                beautiful little Z scale tank locomotive shell that uses the
                                old 8805 Marklin chassis and motor. So it is possible
                                to replace some shells on existing products without
                                too much compromise. But I also agree that some
                                suggested shells are just too far out from reality to
                                make the grade. I have turned down some joint ventures
                                because I thought they would not, in the end, look right.

                                But I disagree that surveys are of no use. I pay close attention
                                to surveys, wish lists and chit chat about trains. Later
                                this year we will see the release of AZL's G4 (4-8-4
                                Northern Class) steam locomotive. At last a ground
                                up design that should have all the wheels, drivers,
                                running and valve gear, etc. correctly defined per
                                the Baldwin/Lima manufacturer's details. Not only
                                will Americans be lining up to purchase this highly
                                evolved steamer, I believe this will be a popular locomotive
                                world wide. But all those with tight radius briefcase layouts
                                better not complain --- I doubt that it will run very well on
                                those radii.

                                Marklin has done an excellent job of supplying us with
                                Z scale trains. I hope that in the future they will produce
                                a GG1 electric locomotive, since their catenary is of
                                excellent quality. It is just that they should do their homework.
                                American train enthusiasts can spot falsified details.

                                Reynard
                                On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 08:41 AM, Curtis Campbell wrote:

                                > Harald,
                                >
                                > I definately agree with you, I hope you know that.  While Marklin is
                                > the
                                > pioneer of Z, their American prototypes have a lot of deficiencies. 
                                > Their
                                > European stuff is excellent.  But they try to shape American rolling
                                > stock
                                > on their european frames.  The 2-8-2 and 4-6-0 use the same boiler
                                > shells
                                > and they don't match up with any prototype.  The Marklin F7 is honestly
                                > horrible, the trucks are too long as is the unit itself.  All the
                                > rolling
                                > stock (except the passenger cars) are toyish looking because the
                                > trucks are
                                > set too far in due to the Marklin coupler.
                                >
                                > The only Marklin cars I really like are the passenger cars.  I think
                                > they do
                                > a fine job with them.  But you need to match them up with AZL or Micro
                                > Trains locos to look correct.
                                >
                                > I think that I can speak for the majority of American prototype Z
                                > modelers
                                > and say a collective thank you to FR, AZL, Micro Trains, PennZee,
                                > Micron
                                > Art, etc. for producing what you do.  The quality is superior, and the
                                > selection continues to grow.  Please don't do anything that would put
                                > you
                                > out of business.  I agree that the "wish lists" are sometimes
                                > outrageous.
                                > We all need to wish for the simple basics.  Good turnouts would be a
                                > start.
                                > A basic American steam engine or two like the mikado that was used on
                                > multiple railroads so as not to limit demand.  Maybe a diesel switcher
                                > or
                                > two.
                                >
                                > I have a strong belief that these things are coming.  I wish you much
                                > success.
                                >
                                > Thanks...Curtis
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: FR.model@... [mailto:FR.model@...]
                                > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:48 AM
                                > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [z_scale] shells for 88476 loco
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > "Curtis Campbell" <ccampbell@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >The problem you may have with the American electrics is demand. 
                                > Everyone
                                > >knows the GG1.  I doubt that many people really know of that many
                                > other
                                > >types of electric locomotives as the US railrods that used them were
                                > very
                                > >specific.  PRR (including PennCentral and Amtrak), GN, Virginian, NH
                                > and
                                > not
                                > >too many others with any regularity.
                                >
                                > Curtis,
                                > I understand that the GG1 is one of the most popular locos. But a
                                > Z-scale
                                > GG1 requires a complete set of new tools. Nothing can be taken from any
                                > other designs (including the pantographs). But the demand is much too
                                > less
                                > to justify the tooling costs.
                                > So we have the choice to enlarge the fleet with either cripple shells,
                                > less
                                > popular but perfect locomotives, purchase high price limited fine
                                > AZL-locos
                                > or waiting for a wonder.
                                >
                                > I think the second and third is the best. Four years ago nearly nobody
                                > knew
                                > what a box cab oil electric is. Now 50% of American Z-modeler know it
                                > and
                                > may
                                > be 5% have it. And they are sadisfied and have fun. This model
                                > requires high
                                >
                                > assembly costs but needed very low design costs. It is the most
                                > economical
                                > FR- loco design.
                                >
                                > Yes, it is possible to make a FT, F3 or F9 shell fitting for the
                                > MT-chassis.
                                > But I think a good FT, F3 or F9 looks closer to an F7 than a Marklin
                                > F7.
                                > So does it really make sense?
                                > Let me make jokes about cripple locos because I personally hate them.
                                > This
                                > is not
                                > the right way to make Z-scale more popular.
                                > Making a Baldwin or ALCO loco based on the MT-chassis means a new truck
                                > frame.
                                > Or imagine a Baldwin or ALCO with Blomberg style trucks! The only way
                                > to get
                                > new trucks is a new injection mold tool at $7,000.00 minimum if you
                                > have a
                                > low
                                > cost tool maker (for the truck frame only!). Is there anyone willing
                                > to do
                                > economical suicide?
                                > Sorry, but z_scale polls have nearly no influence at decissions for FR
                                > or
                                > any
                                > other serious manufacturer's new model designs. These wish lists are
                                > far
                                > away
                                > from any technical and economical understanding.
                                >
                                > My two Euro Cents
                                >
                                > Harald
                                >
                                > --
                                > FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                                > Harald Freudenreich
                                > Schwarzer Weg 1B
                                > D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.
                                >
                                > phone: +49 38209 49160    fax: 49161   e-mail: FR.model@...
                                > internet: www.fr-model.de
                                >
                                >
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                                > DoseZ!
                                >
                                >
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                                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                                <image.tiff>
                                >
                                >
                                > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive in Small
                                > DoseZ!
                                >
                                >
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • FR.model@t-online.de
                                ... I can t believe this. I just hold the ARNOLD N-scale class 194 in my hand. It needs more than minor changes to fit it to a GG1 - shell. The axle distances
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  <johnengbers@...> schrieb:
                                  >Not so. Arnold built their GG1 on the chassis of the German Crocodile.
                                  >regards, John Engbers

                                  I can't believe this. I just hold the ARNOLD N-scale class 194 in my hand.
                                  It needs more than minor changes to fit it to a GG1 - shell. The axle
                                  distances and the distance of truck centers have a remarkable difference
                                  (at prototypes and ARNOLD models).

                                  Harald

                                  --
                                  FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                                  Harald Freudenreich
                                  Schwarzer Weg 1B
                                  D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

                                  phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@... internet: www.fr-model.de
                                • Curtis Campbell
                                  I agree Harald. I have an Arnold N scale GG1 too, and there is no way it was converted from a German Croc. The trucks on the German Croc are offset and a GG1
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I agree Harald. I have an Arnold N scale GG1 too, and there is no way it
                                    was converted from a German Croc. The trucks on the German Croc are offset
                                    and a GG1 is symetrical. Truck spacing is very different too. John, I must
                                    agree with Harald, I don't see how it is possible.

                                    Regards...Curtis

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: FR.model@... [mailto:FR.model@...]
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 10:22 AM
                                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [z_scale] shells for 88476 loco




                                    <johnengbers@...> schrieb:
                                    >Not so. Arnold built their GG1 on the chassis of the German Crocodile.
                                    >regards, John Engbers

                                    I can't believe this. I just hold the ARNOLD N-scale class 194 in my hand.
                                    It needs more than minor changes to fit it to a GG1 - shell. The axle
                                    distances and the distance of truck centers have a remarkable difference
                                    (at prototypes and ARNOLD models).

                                    Harald

                                    --
                                    FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                                    Harald Freudenreich
                                    Schwarzer Weg 1B
                                    D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

                                    phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@...
                                    internet: www.fr-model.de

                                    "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


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