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Re: layout and rail questions

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  • BJKRONEN@xxx.xxx
    ... on ... Ah Ha....the truth has prevailed. Given the Norway location the question came from, I assumed (whoa, you know what that word means) that we were
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 29, 1999
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      Jeffrey:

      > I can run a 10 car freight train up the 5% grade with one Micro-trains F7
      on
      > the lead. However, I double head F7's to pull a 6 car passenger train up
      > the same grade. Note that MT F7's are fine pullers but you want to avoid
      > noticeable slowing of the train going up the grade. I do cheat at train
      > shows where I only run trains down the 5% grade.

      Ah Ha....the truth has prevailed. Given the Norway location the question
      came from, I assumed (whoa, you know what that word means) that we were
      talking Marklin locos. That's where my little tables of grades vs. train
      length came from.

      But you are talking about MicroTrains locos. Now we're talking REAL power.
      Serious loco weights. High gear ratios. Not the same as Marklin fly weight
      locos.

      In very non-scientific tests on our z modules, we find that on flat and level
      track, a Marklin F7 approaches wheel slip conditions with around 28
      MicroTrains cars behind it. But a single MT F7 didn't get into wheel slip
      with 71 cars behind it. Sorry, that's all the cars we had that day.

      And I agree with your double heading comments. I have a complete daylight
      passenger train plus two extra cars, and on one module that has a (grim) 2.4%
      grade on it, I use a pair of Marklin F7's to charge the hill. One won't do
      it.

      However, if you take the time to fill the top of the shell of a Marklin F7
      with lead, its performance almost comes up to a MT, pulling power wise. Just
      be careful not to short out the printed circuit board when you re-assemble
      the loco with the added lead. I can't do that with my Daylight F7's, I have
      a Richmond Control's MARS light board jammed in that space.

      Bill Kronenberger
      Houston
    • WBolt1809@xxx.xxx
      From Wolfgang (Bolt) Some suggestions to Jacob s questions: Although I do not have a real layout - shame on me, I know ! - planning it
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 30, 1999
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        From Wolfgang (Bolt) <<wbolt1809@...>>

        Some suggestions to Jacob's questions:

        Although I do not have a real layout - shame on me, I know ! - planning it
        more and more sophisticated.....keeps me away from tranferring it into
        reality......

        No doubt at all: MT locos have originally by far better traction qualities !
        But what, if you prefer "Europeans" ??! Without any modification, it's better
        to have no grades of just those up to 2-3% - this is commonly agreed and
        experienced for a long time.

        Putting on weight - lead for example - is surely a remedy, but not always and
        on all types of locos applicable, space........- perhaps you followed the
        discussion just 2 weeks ago on the mailing list of the "Z-Club-92" .....

        When I suggested to try traction tires on Diesels and E-locos, like used in
        H0, I was confronted with the arguments: Improving traction ability versus
        lack of contact for taking up electricity and possibly higher danger of
        derailing on turn-outs.

        I did it all the same ! What I had seen already before on demonstrations,
        turned into reality: My "Heizer-Loco" (a series "460" from the Siwss
        Railways, one out of the double loco-pack "88445") had no problem at all to
        "climb" a grade of more than 30%......the following one must see or
        experience oneself: A Diesel - BR 218, catalogue nb "8880".....made its way
        "uphill"....on a grade of 45� (in words: degrees !) - which is, give me some
        time to calculate......a grade of 58%.........(difference in height was 25
        cm, ....."length" of track run......:43cm......) - As everyone can easily
        understand, testing how many cars my loco would pull easily on a grade of
        let's say 4%, is up to now really impossible........what I try out now on a
        grade of 6,9% - you should see me right now, looking for kinds of weights to
        put on a flat - "8610" car (6 gramms) !!! - I decided for a "Zippo"......60
        gramms......and my loco nearly wanted to take off like a Jumbo Jet.......A
        normal German reefer weighs 5-7 gramms...... - next try: grade 3,5%, same
        loco, 2 cars to put weight in/on.....I stopped my trials, after the loco
        managed to move "uphill" with a total of a little bit more than 400 gramms
        behind.....

        I am pretty sure that just 1 or 2, but "heavy" car(s) is not the same as 179
        (?) simple cars and that curves, turnouts and different radii have certainly
        influence on the traction "capacity" !!!

        Above all - it was great fun to do all this - perhaps you can imagine.... -
        Oh yes, the price for 2 axles modified, including shipment in Germany, is not
        more than DM 30...

        Due to the linkage (please let me have the right expression, US-folks !),
        traction tires are not yet available for steamers.

        Perhaps, somebody has an idea, how to do this more easily without having to
        dismount the "linkage" from the driving wheels of steamers - maybe some kind
        of liquid rubber to be put on by a brush ?????

        Years ago, at the time, the "Z-Club-International" still merited the name
        "Club"....- there was sb, who built a "Bergbahn", very interesting project
        and very well realized ! But this was without a cog-bar/cog-wheel, I think
        the cars were moved by strings. Nowadays, the company "Railex" introduced
        something similar even in "N" and "H0".

        Thanks for the information about the poor flexibility of the M�rklin type !
        Can anybody help me where in Europe to purchase the Peco flex track ?

        ....I enjoyed this afternoon and writing this email !

        Wolfgang
      • Jacob Munkhammar
        Thank you all for exhaustive accounts on the maximum climbing grade issue. The reason why I ask is that I am planning a very compact, multilevel layout where
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 30, 1999
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          Thank you all for exhaustive accounts on the maximum climbing grade issue.
          The reason why I ask is that I am planning a very compact, multilevel
          layout where almost all visible track is flat, while it is shifting levels
          in hidden tunnels.
          As I want the layout to be as compact as possible, and those mountains and
          other hidden areas - especially at the ends of the layout - as small as
          possible, I of course want the trains to climb to another level in an as
          small area as possible. An as narrow helix as possible seemed the obvious
          choise.

          And, consequently, speed decrease is no problem, the trains are not visible.

          There is another issue here, though. Starting up-hill. I guess, at the
          grades I am discussing, this is impossible with stock locos.
          I will also park trains in those hidden areas. Better keep those parking
          areas flat or down-hill, I suspect....

          This rubber thing on a pair of wheels is interesting. Who make and sell those?

          /Jacob
        • Frans van Cuilenborg
          Snip, snip, snip...... There was a lot of good things said in this mail but I do not quite agree about the flex Märklin type track. I have used it a lot but
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 30, 1999
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            Snip, snip, snip......

            There was a lot of good things said in this mail but I do not quite agree
            about the flex M�rklin type track.
            I have used it a lot but you have to cut the underside of the track on the
            "outside" of the radia. Then it will bend easy. The advantage is that you
            can make a very nice stransfer from straight to circular by keeping a part
            fixed as it is and then cut where it bends.
            The cutting is done between the sleepers on the outside of the radia.

            Frans

            >
            >Thanks for the information about the poor flexibility of the M�rklin type !
            >Can anybody help me where in Europe to purchase the Peco flex track ?
            >
            >....I enjoyed this afternoon and writing this email !
            >
            >Wolfgang
            >
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