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Water depth

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  • n_vanbeest
    I am actually starting on the building of my table, and immediately I have a question. For a lake, how deep should I make the depression to create a lifelike
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 5, 2002
      I am actually starting on the building of my table, and immediately I
      have a question. For a lake, how deep should I make the depression
      to create a lifelike water scene?

      Regards,
      Nico
    • Svein-Martin Holt
      HI If your water should be dark, you can have a complete flat surface, with no depth. You only paint it dark and in shades that are lighter near the edge. On
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 5, 2002
        HI

        If your water should be dark, you can have a complete flat surface, with no
        depth. You only paint it dark and in shades that are lighter near the edge.
        On the top you can have a layer with transparent blank paint. This makes
        real nice water. But if you want to fill the "lake" with some epoxy og e-z
        water from Woodland, then you need some depth in the lake. But only to paint
        a flat surface, also gives a good result.
        You can even make waves on a flat top like this, if you want.

        Hilsen/Regards,
        Svein-Martin Holt

        ============================================
        Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@...
        Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
        Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
        ============================================

        -----Original Message-----
        From: n_vanbeest [mailto:nico@...]
        Sent: 5. november 2002 21:24
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [z_scale] Water depth


        I am actually starting on the building of my table, and immediately I
        have a question. For a lake, how deep should I make the depression
        to create a lifelike water scene?

        Regards,
        Nico


        "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • n_vanbeest
        Hi Svein-Martin Is the painting technique the one you use on your layout? (As can be seen on the status from the layout on 08.10.02) R, Nico ... with no ...
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 5, 2002
          Hi Svein-Martin

          Is the painting technique the one you use on your layout? (As can be
          seen on the status from the layout on 08.10.02)

          R, Nico

          --- In z_scale@y..., "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...> wrote:
          > HI
          >
          > If your water should be dark, you can have a complete flat surface,
          with no
          > depth. You only paint it dark and in shades that are lighter near
          the edge.
          > On the top you can have a layer with transparent blank paint. This
          makes
          > real nice water. But if you want to fill the "lake" with some epoxy
          og e-z
          > water from Woodland, then you need some depth in the lake. But only
          to paint
          > a flat surface, also gives a good result.
          > You can even make waves on a flat top like this, if you want.
          >
          > Hilsen/Regards,
          > Svein-Martin Holt
          >
          > ============================================
          > Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@n...
          > Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
          > Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
          > ============================================
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: n_vanbeest [mailto:nico@b...]
          > Sent: 5. november 2002 21:24
          > To: z_scale@y...
          > Subject: [z_scale] Water depth
          >
          >
          > I am actually starting on the building of my table, and immediately
          I
          > have a question. For a lake, how deep should I make the depression
          > to create a lifelike water scene?
          >
          > Regards,
          > Nico
          >
          >
          > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
          DoseZ!
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • John Cubbin
          For water I use Envirotex and they suggest you pour a depth of 1/8 at a time (you can do multiple pours). As Svein-Martin Holt suggested, water depth is all
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 5, 2002
            For water I use Envirotex and they suggest you pour a depth of 1/8" at a
            time (you can do multiple pours). As Svein-Martin Holt suggested, water
            depth is all illusion in Model railroad scenes. You want to design the
            layout with the top, or surface of the lake in mind, not the bottom. You
            can have the lake in a valley, or similar depression, but again keep in
            mind the top of the water, not the bottom.

            John
            http://www.ztrains.com
          • Svein-Martin Holt
            Hi Nico On my new layout I have not used this technique yet. I will use it later, in the harbour area. The areas you may think is the lake, is the black
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 6, 2002
              Hi Nico

              On my new layout I have not used this technique yet. I will use it later, in
              the harbour area. The areas you may think is the lake, is the black
              frontboard seen on the pictures from the status report on 08.10.02.

              I have just moved my homepage to my own domain, so the statusreport can be
              found here:
              http://www.platelayer.com/mj/zanlegg/z_layout_e.asp
              I will soon upgrade it with more pictures.

              Hilsen/Regards,
              Svein-Martin Holt

              ============================================
              Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@...
              Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
              Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
              ============================================

              -----Original Message-----
              From: n_vanbeest [mailto:nico@...]
              Sent: 5. november 2002 23:21
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [z_scale] Re: Water depth


              Hi Svein-Martin

              Is the painting technique the one you use on your layout? (As can be
              seen on the status from the layout on 08.10.02)

              R, Nico

              --- In z_scale@y..., "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...> wrote:
              > HI
              >
              > If your water should be dark, you can have a complete flat surface,
              with no
              > depth. You only paint it dark and in shades that are lighter near
              the edge.
              > On the top you can have a layer with transparent blank paint. This
              makes
              > real nice water. But if you want to fill the "lake" with some epoxy
              og e-z
              > water from Woodland, then you need some depth in the lake. But only
              to paint
              > a flat surface, also gives a good result.
              > You can even make waves on a flat top like this, if you want.
              >
              > Hilsen/Regards,
              > Svein-Martin Holt
              >
              > ============================================
              > Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@n...
              > Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
              > Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
              > ============================================
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: n_vanbeest [mailto:nico@b...]
              > Sent: 5. november 2002 21:24
              > To: z_scale@y...
              > Subject: [z_scale] Water depth
              >
              >
              > I am actually starting on the building of my table, and immediately
              I
              > have a question. For a lake, how deep should I make the depression
              > to create a lifelike water scene?
              >
              > Regards,
              > Nico
              >
              >
              > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
              DoseZ!
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



              "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Svein-Martin Holt
              Hi again Nico I have a few pictures where this painting technique has been used. I saw this layout in Holland this spring, it is in H0, but the tecnique can be
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 6, 2002
                Hi again Nico

                I have a few pictures where this painting technique has been used. I saw
                this layout in Holland this spring, it is in H0, but the tecnique can be
                used also in Z-scale.
                Here are some links to pictures:
                http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4284.jpg
                http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4283.jpg
                http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4281.jpg
                All water are painted. It is a little dark, so to simulate the border, it
                could have been a little lighter. But I think the dutch channels are deep,
                so I guess they are dark the whole way from the edge.

                The complete tour I did can be found here: (Sorry about Norwegian text)
                http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302

                Here you also will find 2 pictures of Z-scale layouts:
                http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4266.jpg
                http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4272.jpg
                Near all buildings here are papermodels.


                Hilsen/Regards,
                Svein-Martin Holt

                ============================================
                Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@...
                Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
                Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
                ============================================

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Svein-Martin Holt [mailto:smholt@...]
                Sent: 6. november 2002 20:07
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [z_scale] Re: Water depth


                Hi Nico

                On my new layout I have not used this technique yet. I will use it later, in
                the harbour area. The areas you may think is the lake, is the black
                frontboard seen on the pictures from the status report on 08.10.02.

                I have just moved my homepage to my own domain, so the statusreport can be
                found here:
                http://www.platelayer.com/mj/zanlegg/z_layout_e.asp
                I will soon upgrade it with more pictures.

                Hilsen/Regards,
                Svein-Martin Holt

                ============================================
                Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@...
                Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
                Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
                ============================================

                -----Original Message-----
                From: n_vanbeest [mailto:nico@...]
                Sent: 5. november 2002 23:21
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [z_scale] Re: Water depth


                Hi Svein-Martin

                Is the painting technique the one you use on your layout? (As can be
                seen on the status from the layout on 08.10.02)

                R, Nico

                --- In z_scale@y..., "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...> wrote:
                > HI
                >
                > If your water should be dark, you can have a complete flat surface,
                with no
                > depth. You only paint it dark and in shades that are lighter near
                the edge.
                > On the top you can have a layer with transparent blank paint. This
                makes
                > real nice water. But if you want to fill the "lake" with some epoxy
                og e-z
                > water from Woodland, then you need some depth in the lake. But only
                to paint
                > a flat surface, also gives a good result.
                > You can even make waves on a flat top like this, if you want.
                >
                > Hilsen/Regards,
                > Svein-Martin Holt
                >
                > ============================================
                > Name: Svein-Martin Holt E-mail: smholt@n...
                > Country: Norway Mobil: +47 91 76 76 48
                > Internet: http://www.platelayer.com
                > ============================================
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: n_vanbeest [mailto:nico@b...]
                > Sent: 5. november 2002 21:24
                > To: z_scale@y...
                > Subject: [z_scale] Water depth
                >
                >
                > I am actually starting on the building of my table, and immediately
                I
                > have a question. For a lake, how deep should I make the depression
                > to create a lifelike water scene?
                >
                > Regards,
                > Nico
                >
                >
                > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
                DoseZ!
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • grumpy@gbpackersfan.com
                G day Svein-Martin I am seriously impressed by the layouts .. both Z and HO. There is obviously an abundance of talent over there so can you please bottle some
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 6, 2002
                  G'day Svein-Martin

                  I am seriously impressed by the layouts .. both Z and HO.
                  There is obviously an abundance of talent over there so can you please bottle
                  some up and send it down here ... I feel I am in need of a couple of pints! :)
                  Cheers

                  Tom
                  Oz

                  >
                  >On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 7:18:56 +0000 (GMT), "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@...> wrote:
                  > Hi again Nico
                  >
                  > I have a few pictures where this painting technique has been used. I saw
                  > this layout in Holland this spring, it is in H0, but the tecnique can be
                  > used also in Z-scale.


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                • Bill Hoshiko
                  ... ... text) See http transplanted below ... The third picture down on this web page is an example of forced perspective gone wrong. I know that this
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 6, 2002
                    --- In z_scale@y..., "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I have a few pictures.

                    <snip>

                    > The complete tour I did can be found here: (Sorry about Norwegian
                    text)

                    See http transplanted below
                    >
                    > Hilsen/Regards,
                    > Svein-Martin Holt


                    The third picture down on this web page is an example of "forced
                    perspective" gone wrong.

                    I know that this isn't Z but some how it fits a part of a recent
                    thread.

                    http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/

                    Somehow, there is a problem with this picture. I just can't put my
                    finger on it. <;op)

                    And Jeffery, thanks for your kind comment on my earlier post. Now
                    that I'm awake, I wondered if it made sense.

                    Bill
                    El Toro, ca
                  • Reynard Wellman
                    Hello Bill, Gosh, you guys have some nice trains. Nothing like making stuff to such an excellent level of detail! The perspective is not wrong. Those are
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 6, 2002
                      Hello Bill,

                      Gosh, you guys have some nice trains. Nothing
                      like making stuff to such an excellent level of detail!

                      The perspective is not wrong. Those are giants attacking
                      Holland. What would you feed such monsters?!

                      Regards,
                      Reynard

                      Bill Hoshiko wrote:

                      > --- In z_scale@y..., "Svein-Martin Holt" <smholt@s...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I have a few pictures.
                      >
                      > <snip>
                      >
                      > > The complete tour I did can be found here: (Sorry about Norwegian
                      > text)
                      >
                      > See http transplanted below
                      > >
                      > > Hilsen/Regards,
                      > > Svein-Martin Holt
                      >
                      >
                      > The third picture down on this web page is an example of "forced
                      > perspective" gone wrong.
                      >
                      > I know that this isn't Z but some how it fits a part of a recent
                      > thread.
                      >
                      > http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/
                      >
                      > Somehow, there is a problem with this picture. I just can't put my
                      > finger on it. <;op)
                      >
                      > And Jeffery, thanks for your kind comment on my earlier post. Now
                      > that I'm awake, I wondered if it made sense.
                      >
                      > Bill
                      > El Toro, ca
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
                      > DoseZ!
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kari Tanskanen
                      One more comment on perspectives. People really see things differently. I once showed this picture to a friend:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 6, 2002
                        One more comment on perspectives. People really see things differently.
                        I once showed this picture to a friend:
                        http://tappi.me.tut.fi/~ktanskan/photo/z2/p333.jpg
                        His comment was that the picture was nice but why the cow was so huge??
                        I never thought that the cow is big. The trees just are small like
                        they often are on high altitudes.

                        Kari
                      • n_vanbeest
                        Thanks a lot Svein-Martin. Now it boils down to just trying again and again till I get it right! ... border, it ... are deep, ... Nice pictures! The channels
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 7, 2002
                          Thanks a lot Svein-Martin. Now it boils down to just trying again
                          and again till I get it right!

                          > Here are some links to pictures:
                          > http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4284.jpg
                          > http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4283.jpg
                          > http://www.platelayer.com/tour/holland0302/600/dscn4281.jpg
                          > All water are painted. It is a little dark, so to simulate the
                          border, it
                          > could have been a little lighter. But I think the dutch channels
                          are deep,
                          > so I guess they are dark the whole way from the edge.
                          >

                          Nice pictures! The channels aren't really that deep, only they
                          normally have quite steep sides. Thus it would maybe be better to
                          make it a little lighter. The small side-channels should definitely
                          be shallower!

                          > The complete tour I did can be found here: (Sorry about Norwegian
                          text)

                          Don't be sorry! After all, it is your mother tongue...

                          Regards,
                          Nico
                        • Reynard Wellman
                          Hello Kari, It all looks correct to me, however, I think most ranchers would be very nervous about having their cows wandering around such wild country. In
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 7, 2002
                            Hello Kari,

                            It all looks correct to me, however, I think most
                            ranchers would be very nervous about having their
                            cows wandering around such wild country. In
                            Colorado they try to keep the cattle down in the
                            lower pastures. Not that the cows are so
                            stupid as to jump off a cliff, it's that they tend to
                            get scattered and it's hard to round them up without
                            spending days looking for them. Also predators
                            are always a problem. Perhaps you can have somebody
                            on a horse trying to chase this cow back to the herd.

                            Best regards,
                            Reynard



                            Kari Tanskanen wrote:

                            >
                            > One more comment on perspectives. People really see things
                            > differently.
                            > I once showed this picture to a friend:
                            > http://tappi.me.tut.fi/~ktanskan/photo/z2/p333.jpg
                            > His comment was that the picture was nice but why the cow was so
                            > huge??
                            > I never thought that the cow is big. The trees just are small like
                            > they often are on high altitudes.
                            >
                            > Kari
                            >
                            > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
                            > DoseZ!
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Joseph M. Saur
                            Well, the other issue may be the cows... I bought some Preiser Z cows, and they looked pretty big compared to, say, Marklin cars, so we measured them. Turns
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 7, 2002
                              Well, the other issue may be the cows... I bought some Preiser Z cows,
                              and they looked pretty big compared to, say, Marklin cars, so we measured
                              them. Turns out that they were just a bit smaller than the Preiser N cows,
                              and figured out to about 7-9 scale feet tall! In fact, most would not fit
                              through the door of my MT Z stockcar...

                              Using 'em anyway...
                              Joe

                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello Kari,
                              >
                              > It all looks correct to me, however, I think most
                              > ranchers would be very nervous about having their
                              > cows wandering around such wild country. In
                              > Colorado they try to keep the cattle down in the
                              > lower pastures. Not that the cows are so
                              >stupid as to jump off a cliff, it's that they tend to
                              > get scattered and it's hard to round them up without
                              >spending days looking for them. Also predators
                              > are always a problem. Perhaps you can have somebody
                              > on a horse trying to chase this cow back to the herd.
                              >
                              > Best regards,
                              > Reynard
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Kari Tanskanen wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > One more comment on perspectives. People really see things
                              > > differently.
                              > > I once showed this picture to a friend:
                              > > http://tappi.me.tut.fi/~ktanskan/photo/z2/p333.jpg
                              > > His comment was that the picture was nice but why the cow was so
                              > > huge??
                              > > I never thought that the cow is big. The trees just are small like
                              > > they often are on high altitudes.
                              > >
                              > > Kari
                              > >
                              > > &quot;Z&quot; WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly
                              > addictive in Small > DoseZ!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > Service.
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > &quot;Z&quot; WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive
                              > in Small DoseZ!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            • Kari Tanskanen
                              Ok. So, if you are modeling American prototype, cows should be kept in the lower pastures. But in the Alpine regions cattle indeed grazes on mountain slopes in
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 8, 2002
                                Ok. So, if you are modeling American prototype, cows should be kept
                                in the lower pastures. But in the Alpine regions cattle indeed grazes
                                on mountain slopes in summertime. There are practically no predators
                                left in Central Europe. But whatever you do, keep those cows out of
                                the tracks!

                                Kari

                                Reynard Wellman wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello Kari,
                                >
                                > It all looks correct to me, however, I think most
                                > ranchers would be very nervous about having their
                                > cows wandering around such wild country. In
                                > Colorado they try to keep the cattle down in the
                                > lower pastures. Not that the cows are so
                                > stupid as to jump off a cliff, it's that they tend to
                                > get scattered and it's hard to round them up without
                                > spending days looking for them. Also predators
                                > are always a problem. Perhaps you can have somebody
                                > on a horse trying to chase this cow back to the herd.
                                >
                                > Best regards,
                                > Reynard
                                >
                              • Reynard Wellman
                                Hello Kari, We don t have any Z scale cowboys anyway. And your picture is fine as it is. Great fun! Reynard
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 8, 2002
                                  Hello Kari,
                                  We don't have any Z scale cowboys anyway.
                                  And your picture is fine as it is.

                                  Great fun!

                                  Reynard

                                  Kari Tanskanen wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ok. So, if you are modeling American prototype, cows should be kept
                                  > in the lower pastures. But in the Alpine regions cattle indeed grazes
                                  > on mountain slopes in summertime. There are practically no predators
                                  > left in Central Europe. But whatever you do, keep those cows out of
                                  > the tracks!
                                  >
                                  > Kari
                                  >
                                  > Reynard Wellman wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hello Kari,
                                  > >
                                  > > It all looks correct to me, however, I think most
                                  > > ranchers would be very nervous about having their
                                  > > cows wandering around such wild country. In
                                  > > Colorado they try to keep the cattle down in the
                                  > > lower pastures. Not that the cows are so
                                  > > stupid as to jump off a cliff, it's that they tend to
                                  > > get scattered and it's hard to round them up without
                                  > > spending days looking for them. Also predators
                                  > > are always a problem. Perhaps you can have somebody
                                  > > on a horse trying to chase this cow back to the herd.
                                  > >
                                  > > Best regards,
                                  > > Reynard
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
                                  > DoseZ!
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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