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66913Re: [Z_Scale] Re: GP7 Shell Swap Q

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  • Lindley Ruddick
    May 8, 2011
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      I can only second what Don has written. I have not worked with as many locomotives as he has but I have experienced some running problems - usually at shows of course. Since my philosophy is NEVER work on a loco at a show, I am fortunate in that I can put the offending loco back in the box and get out another one. When I get home, I remove only the truck frames and clean up everything using isopropyl alcohol. I have also experienced a "loose wheel" on the axel more than once. I VERY carefully put just the smallest amount of thin super glue on the axel end after checking at least twice to make sure that the unit is in gauge. The I add only a small drop of lubricant on the gears and reassemble. Only on a couple of occasions have I needed to separate the chassis halves. In those cases it has taken me quite a while to get everything realigned - especially the shaft bearings and thrust washers. I can only emphasize Don's comments that everything should fit together very nicely - no force necessary IF everything is lined up. If you do have to force it, it is NOT properly aligned. Bright lights and an OptiVisor (or imitation) are great tools to help make things easier.
      Lindley



      On May 8, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Don Fedjur wrote:

      >
      > Hi Guy's,
      >
      > I read what Dave has experienced as well as some others out there in Z-Land about the MTL offerings and have to beg to differ. I am not the consummate expert, but I try to learn the intimate details of why or why not something works or doesn't work. Sometimes it can be frustrating if you cannot see a problem or have the experience to know what is at the core of what is causing an engine to run poor or not at all. I have cleaned, repaired, trouble shot, DCC'd now past a hundred(s) loco's of the modern MTL loco offerings without including the F-7. They are a truly reliable best in class and affordable offering that is all but completely bullet proof in reliability. If you are having a problem with the GP-35 or GP-9...........you are doing something wrong or missing something that is causing it's reduction in performance.
      >
      > The number one way to kill any engine is over oiling and general poor maintenance. Modern loco offerings now use a high performance "grease" that stay's put for maximum coverage and performance. It should be known that there is a period where out of the box an MTL GP-35/GP-9/SD-40 will run perfectly, haul your 25-60 car freight train and then suddenly have slipping issues. This basically happens at about 20 hours of operation and can vary of course somewhat from loco to loco. Kinda twilight zone anomalies that come out of nowhere. Inspect your trucks, clean all of the wheels on the loco including the flange where it makes rail contact. Remove the two brass screws that hold the truck frame in and inspect the gearing for dirt/debris/proper lubrication. Also, Inspect your wheels gauging and put back on the track and it will be "broken in". There is nothing wrong with the loco, it is just a break in and cleaning issue.
      >
      > Many times I get a loco that is handed to me with the it runs slow syndrome. If you mix oil types and get debris in your trucks or internally to the worm drives........usually a super fine piece of lint/hair.........it slows things down. Usually the owner decides to take apart the chassis to inspect and or clean. Here is where everybody goes wrong. One, the pins for each bushing that supports the worm axle have to fit into the chassis halve and not inadvertently get slipped as the spacer between chassis halves. An easy oversight. The chassis halves snap fit clean and snug when all parts are in the correct alignment. A big problem I see when I get a loco from someone who has attempted to clean or DCC themselves and then run into operational problems is that they over tighten the chassis halves screws and strip out the plastic. The plastic spacers which prevent shorting of the two chassis halves are going to fit cleanly or not at all. Same goes for the worm axle pin guides. I put a red "dot" of paint on the black screw heads for each of the six chassis halves screws so I know how many times it gets turned. Still, by simple "feel", you know when to stop before stripping out the screws spacer.
      >
      > All of that said, over tightening of the chassis halves including improper seating of the worm axle pins causes the undo pressure on the internal drive components to slow your engine/motor down. Other really key and obvious things to look for are, check your true output voltage on your power supply! I set my internal output control for my NCE 5-Amp power supply to not exceed 10 Volts. Read the manufacturers instructions sheet for your specific loco. It will have a statement about voltage and pulse power. Are you running more than the specified 8 Volts? And pulse power will kill your engine, so use the correct power pack/power supply to run your trains. Even though your decoder board compensates for overages in what it sees AC/DC, this could be the real cause of what may appear to be a slow running engine. For those of you that are comparing speed and response to say a Marklin engine, they are completely different animals. The Marklin will run like a rapped ape. The modern MTL and AZL offerings use highest quality brush less DC motors vs the brush type found in the MTL F-7 and Marklin offerings. Also, with a quality volt meter, check the amp draw MA draw from your loco's contact points. If there is excessive draw, something is causing your engine problems........usually one of the listed subjects above.
      >
      > So.................get your motives out, turn on some quality lighting on your workbench so you can see what the real problem is and answer your own questions. The proper tools as well as cleaning and inspection products make all the difference in the world when working on this stuff. The Micro-Trains engines are a wonderfully reliable and smooth running product that will give you years of reliable service with great pulling power. If you need any help or have hit the proverbial dead end of wits to solving an issue, I will be happy to help you out and can also service your engine for you. Like Loren stated in an earlier posting to this string, MTL stands behind their product and will make right on any product that is deemed defective. In the couple hundred modern MTL engines I have dissected, I have found only one instance where an engine was an unsolvable issue and MTL promptly replaced it without issue or question.
      >
      > Don
      > Carlsbad, CA
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
      > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 12:11 pm
      > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: GP7 Shell Swap Q
      >
      > Dave,
      > I have to agree with you, some of the MTL GP units don't perform as well as others, no matter how much you play with them. In my collection,the units with the first generation metal casting seem to work the best.
      > A possible alternative is a note I saw in one of the AZL releases forecasting new roads for GP7 & GP9 2011...
      >
      > Mark
      >
      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, David Epling <cct24@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Negative Ghostrider. We've got some pretty competent people on our team. Jeff worked on one of them and got it working pretty good but at this point all 4 gps are in sluggish mode. Bob is banging his head against the wall because he can't find anything wrong with them
      > > Sent from my iPhone
      > >
      > > On May 7, 2011, at 7:44 AM, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Dave,
      > > >
      > > > You ever heard of the saying 'pilot error'?. Somehow I think there must be
      > > > something about the way the Geeps are put together or maybe dirt and lint in
      > > > the trucks, but I know of no Geep that can't be made to run great if
      > > > adjusted correctly. I think you just haven't come across the problem yet.
      > > >
      > > > Have you considered having some of the resident experts examine your locos
      > > > to see what they can do about the running issues?
      > > >
      > > > There are some guys in the ZoCal group who can field strip those puppies and
      > > > reassemble them almost in their sleep.
      > > >
      > > > I'm not knocking you or accusing you of mistreating them, but the common
      > > > denominator in this equation seems to be the engineer.
      > > >
      > > > MTL will examine them and repair or replace them if you send them to MTL if
      > > > nothing else.......
      > > >
      > > > Give it a try Dave,
      > > >
      > > > Loren
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -------Original Message-------
      > > >
      > > > From: David Epling
      > > > Date: 5/7/2011 7:05:31 AM
      > > > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Cc: Bob Sims
      > > > Subject: Re: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: GP7 Shell Swap Q
      > > >
      > > > Because both do not run flawlessly. Our MTL Geeps run like crap and we can't
      > > > see why. We've had all 4 (2 GP9s and 2 GP35s) of them checked, re-checked
      > > > and re-checked and they still barely run. We managed to get a pair of WP MTL
      > > > F7s to work, or rather they simply started working. The train runs
      > > > flawlessly pulling 18 cars on the Museum layout and up the mainline ruling
      > > > grade of 3%
      > > >
      > > > Thursday evening, we tried out our new AZL GP7 (UP), it pulled the train by
      > > > itself up the grade stalling only on the Keddie Switch. The 3 units run fine
      > > > together but we'd rather have all 3 as WP Units.
      > > >
      > > > David
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



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