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65114Re: Marklin transformer polarity

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  • luckykid43
    Jul 25, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Willy,
      Well, I wasn't clear at all about what I was asking in my original message. Sorry. I use the Atlas Wiring Book as my "bible" and I know that my track power is DC and Marklin HO is AC. However when reading chapter 4 where the section on blocks and multiple power packs is discussed, I wondered if there would be any effect if the transformers were not polarized. I see now from the replies to my original question that I do not have to be concerned about this.
      Thanks again. And I will keep asking.
      Cheers, Luckykid

      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Willy Fritz" <willy.fritz@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear luckykid,
      >
      > you NEVER can use anything written for Marklin H0 ! Because Marklin H0 is
      > AC-driven.
      >
      > In your first post you remarked that you use Marklin Z - which is DC driven.
      >
      > As in soem other reply was already mentioned, you have to use some kind of
      > block-wiring to attach more than one (original Marklin) power pack to your
      > layout.
      >
      > These facts are neatly printed on the power packs themselves using
      > international symbols for DC (as opposed to AC) for the track contacts of
      > the pack. You should know there are two different contacts for AC - they are
      > ONLY used for switch magnets or layout lighting! Don't use them as track
      > feeders!!!
      >
      > With kind reagrds,
      > Willy
      >
      > PS: Keep on asking - I hope, your next questions aren't about "How can I
      > extingguish a fire in my train room?" :-)
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------
      > From: "luckykid43" <luckykid43@...>
      > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 5:56 PM
      > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Marklin transformer polarity
      >
      > > The replies to my question have helped me to find a good resource on
      > > Marklin transformer polarity, although it's located in an HO document.
      > > Eckert Engineering's booklet on the Electrical Aspects of a Marklin HO
      > > layout has a section (8.0) on Multiple Transformers on Layouts. There is a
      > > nice, illustrated discussion of polarity and includes a simple polarity
      > > test procedure. The 15 page booklet can be found at:
      > > http://www.lctm.info/FileView/_files/Folletos/Marklinwiringbooklet.pdf
      > >
      > > Thanks for your help, luckykid
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "zeeglen" <glen@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "luckykid43" <luckykid43@> wrote:
      > >> > Actually, I was not clear in my purpose with this question. I thought
      > >> > there might be a problem if I was using more than one Marklin
      > >> > transformer/controller in my layout and the polarity of the
      > >> > transformers themselves ended up different.
      > >> > I hope that helps.
      > >>
      > >> This is a valid concern. I do not know if Marklin power packs are prone
      > >> to AC phasing differences, but is known to be critical with some MRC
      > >> power packs. There are two issues here, DC polarity (locomotive
      > >> direction) and AC phasing if these power packs output half wave
      > >> rectified.
      > >>
      > >> DC polarity is easily understood. Both power packs should be the same
      > >> make/model and both set to the same direction as the loco crosses an
      > >> insulated boundary between two blocks powered by the two individual power
      > >> packs. Speed should be set to approximately the same on both power
      > >> packs. If the power packs are inadvertently set to opposite DC polarity
      > >> the loco will stall as it's wheels bridge across the rail gaps and the
      > >> power packs drive each other into overload shutdown through the
      > >> locomotive wheels, if properly designed no permanent damage except
      > >> possibly to the loccomotive. The same can happen with a single power
      > >> back when block boundaries are set to opposite directions, but less
      > >> damaging current flows.
      > >>
      > >> Generally it is not a very good idea to have a locomotive cross a block
      > >> boundary between power packs unless both power packs are the same make
      > >> and model and set to the same speed, and definitely to the same DC
      > >> polarity (direction). Differences in output waveforms (DC, halfwave
      > >> sine, fullwave sine, pulse-on-DC) can make different models from the same
      > >> manufacturer incompatible with each other when run in parallel (due to
      > >> the wheels bridging the rail gaps) even for a short time.
      > >>
      > >> Even then the pulse phasing between the same models will not necessarily
      > >> match, if so the AC power cord of one must be reversed. Involves
      > >> rewiring if the AC plugs are polarized (one wide blade) and cannot be
      > >> reversed in the wall outlet.
      > >>
      > >> If the power pack outputs half-wave-rectified sine and AC input is 60 Hz,
      > >> output voltage pulses are present for 8 milliseconds followed by a gap
      > >> (no voltage) for another 8 milliseconds, then the cycle repeats. In
      > >> other words 60 pulses and 60 interleaved gaps per second.
      > >>
      > >> If using more than one power pack for separate blocks, the phasing must
      > >> be the same so that as a locomotive straddles insulated blocks and
      > >> momentarily receives and bridges power from both packs the half wave
      > >> relative to AC line polarity must be synchronized among all power packs.
      > >> Otherwise the loco will speed up while straddling blocks as it briefly
      > >> receives full wave created from two opposite-phased half wave sources,
      > >> even when the DC polarity (loco direction) is matched. In other words,
      > >> the two power packs can alternately fill in the gap between each other's
      > >> pulses instead of both producing the 8 millisecond pulse at the same
      > >> time.
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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