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Re: [YugoUnitedGVOwners] 850 Special

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  • Bill Schulz
    David- Whoa! I m glad to get questions on this sort of esoterica. My guess is that there s a tie to the Haflinger which was a very small go-anywhere
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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      David-

      Whoa!  I'm glad to get questions on this sort of esoterica. 

      My guess is that there's a tie to the "Haflinger" which was a very small go-anywhere military-type "mule."  It was, powered by a horizontally-opposed aircooled twin, basically a 1/2 VW, as was the DAF (anyone remember the "dafodil?"  It was the only car which would accelerate by easing off the gas once you've reached terminal velocity!).  I'm open to questions on this baby, too.

      Now, whether Haflinger was part of Steyr-Puch or not, I do know.  But I believe the engine was of S-P origin and, hence, a candidate for an in-house powerplant.

      All kinds of strange engines have found their way into FIATs built in other parts of the world.  The Ruskies put a 'dozer's "pony" engine-- an air-cooled V-4-- into a modified/re-styled 600 body.  They also put their own liquid-cooled I-4 into the 124 Lada (it's a "lada" junk when built in the Socialist Utopia). 

      But, by far and away the most outragous was a one-off conversion of a 600 into a "Porschiat" built by a CHIPS officer back about 1960 or so when he mated a "Push" boxer 4 to the 600.  Yee Ha! 

      John Rich (Rich Motors, Glendale, CA) build a nasty pushrod one litre 600 (633->998cc; bored/stroked to the max!).  A copy of the Sport Car Graphic road test was recently on eBay.  In it, the tester noted that a favorite passtime was VW baiting... pull out to pass a VW, let him accelerate to terminal velocity, gently staying with him, and then flooring it to rip past an over the horizon, leaving him with a look on his face like the one on the mug of a 727 captain being passed by a Tri-Pacer at 30,000 feet.

      Well now, talk about getting off on a tangent....  Sounds like I'm in Geometry class....

      At this point in life, I do a lot of remembering/musing/dreaming.  However, when I assum room temperature, all the data in my synapses will be lost.  So ask on, I'll impart whatever I can to the mystique/culture of all things FIAT and/or Yugo... or whatever.

      Blue skies and tailwinds!



      Bill, the FIAT guy in central FL



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    • David G.
      Thanks for that information, I think the steyr-puch engine is more like a Citroen 2cv engine in layout, but with a VW-like cooling system, with the fan mounted
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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        Thanks for that information, I think the steyr-puch
        engine is more like a Citroen 2cv engine in layout,
        but with a VW-like cooling system, with the fan
        mounted over instead of in front of it. Weirdness to
        the second power.
        I remember the DAF,it was a cool car, I think the
        neatest thing about it was that it didn't have a
        differential! - instead it had belt transmissions for
        each rear wheel, both wheel received equal amounts of
        power, making it a great car for snow and ice. They
        weren't very popular in the U.S. and then got bought
        by Volvo. Of course now I'm going too far off topic.

        Thank you bill,
        David G.


        --- Bill Schulz <schulznotee@...> wrote:
        >
        > David-
        >
        > Whoa! I'm glad to get questions on this sort of
        > esoterica.
        >
        > My guess is that there's a tie to the "Haflinger"
        > which was a very small go-anywhere military-type
        > "mule." It was, powered by a horizontally-opposed
        > aircooled twin, basically a 1/2 VW, as was the DAF
        > (anyone remember the "dafodil?" It was the only car
        > which would accelerate by easing off the gas once
        > you've reached terminal velocity!). I'm open to
        > questions on this baby, too.



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      • Jonathan Ranney
        The Steyr-Puch 500 had an in house (Ledwinka) designed, horizintally opposed, hemi-heads (2 total) engine. Ledwinka, was the son of famous Hans, chief
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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           The Steyr-Puch 500 had an in house (Ledwinka) designed, horizintally opposed, hemi-heads (2 total) engine.  Ledwinka, was the son of famous Hans, chief designer of the unique Tatra autos. The Austro-Diamler, Steyr-Puch Co's. engine was smoother and more sofisticated than the simple Fiat verticle twin.  It was, by reports, much smoother and easier to tune for more power than the Fiat unit.  A lower center of gravity made it better handling as well.  Austrian factory teams regularly contested (and finished reliably) with the front competitors in rallies such as the Monte Carlo in the '60's with the 650 TR, a 45+ hp., 38 lbs. ft. torque (!) in an 1150+ lbs. vehicle.  TR's had panhard rods frt. and rear, brakes rated excellent @ the time for not fading racing down alps.  Autocar drove the car (TR) and said it was faster than the factory Mini-Coopers of the time; "the little Steyr takes off  like a rocket with a deafening scream from the engine and gears" ( 0-128kph. in 15.8 seconds!  Sounds like it was a blast!

          Jon     www.fiatpwr.com



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        • David G.
          Please correct me if I m wrong, but I thought that the Steyr-puch 500 used a larger displacement engine than the FIAT, and that it s output was lower. I would
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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            Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the
            Steyr-puch 500 used a larger displacement engine than
            the FIAT, and that it's output was lower. I would
            assume that it is smoother (I've never driven one)
            because of the opposed boxer layout.

            Thanks,
            David G.

            --- Jonathan Ranney <fiatpwr@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > The Steyr-Puch 500 had an in house (Ledwinka)
            > designed, horizintally opposed, hemi-heads (2 total)
            > engine. Ledwinka, was the son of famous Hans, chief
            > designer of the unique Tatra autos. The
            > Austro-Diamler, Steyr-Puch Co's. engine was smoother
            > and more sofisticated than the simple Fiat verticle
            > twin. It was, by reports, much smoother and easier
            > to tune for more power than the Fiat unit. A lower
            > center of gravity made it better handling as well.
            > Austrian factory teams regularly contested (and
            > finished reliably) with the front competitors in
            > rallies such as the Monte Carlo in the '60's with
            > the 650 TR, a 45+ hp., 38 lbs. ft. torque (!) in an
            > 1150+ lbs. vehicle. TR's had panhard rods frt. and
            > rear, brakes rated excellent @ the time for not
            > fading racing down alps. Autocar drove the car (TR)
            > and said it was faster than the factory Mini-Coopers
            > of the time; "the little Steyr takes off like a
            > rocket with a deafening scream from the engine and
            > gears" ( 0-128kph. in 15.8 seconds! Sounds like it
            > was a blast!
            >
            > Jon www.fiatpwr.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
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            more


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          • Bill Barkley
            Good day all, I remember the DAF being that the shop here builds and restores 2 cylinder (mostly French Panhard and British Berkeley) vehicles. My Yugo is
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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              Good day all,

              I remember the DAF being that the "shop" here builds
              and restores "2" cylinder (mostly French Panhard and
              British Berkeley) vehicles.

              My Yugo is the everyday go to work and parts chaser
              vehicle and fits in very well with the "weird" stuff
              we have here.

              Has anyone ever made a mid engine Yugo with a X1/9
              rear clip (like the Renault R5 Turbo)?

              Be good all,

              William Barkley
              Team "2" Motorsports



              =====
              P.S.
              If I havn't told you about my new website, please check it out at:

              http://www.geocities.com/team2motorsports

              Check out what has been going on in my shop with Panhards, Berkeleys, and D-Bs and tell me what you think!!

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            • Bill Schulz
              David: Too far off topic? Is that possible? If we can love Yugos and FIATs, how can we not love Dafs, Haflingers, D-Bs, and Morettis? By the way, after I
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                David:

                Too far off topic?  Is that possible?  If we can love Yugos and FIATs, how can we not love Dafs, Haflingers, D-Bs, and Morettis? 

                By the way, after I wrote that bit earlier today about the Steyr-Puch "500," I went to Google and just typed in "Steyr-Puch" and got back a load of stuff.  Likewise for "Moretti," "Daf," and "Haflinger."

                And yes, my memory didn't fail me (this time) as to the Haflinger/S-P connection-- Haflinger is the brand name for the S-P 4WD mule...  and the engine is a 1/2 VW of varying displacements, 500 to 750cc. 

                Use Google, it'll get you more info that you could possibly want!  (No, I don't have stock in it)



                Bill, the FIAT guy in central FL



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              • Bill Schulz
                Might even try that mid-engine set-up with the two litre twin cam with blower from the Lancia Beta Turbo. Hmmm. Yippeee! And oops! Mr Ranney, you got me on
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                  Might even try that mid-engine set-up with the two litre twin cam with blower from the Lancia Beta Turbo.  Hmmm.  Yippeee!

                  And oops!  Mr Ranney, you got me on the S-P!  Thanks for the insight... much more interesting than I had thought.  My "dusty" info came from an auto mag at the time they were to import the Haflinger... somewhere in the mid-70s I suspect.  Never materialized, though.

                  Is that engine in production any more?  I fly light aircraft and that sounds like a pretty good alternative to a VW although it'd probably need a reduction drive (added weight) to be able to get the hemi well into the power band and yet be able to swing a big prop at reasonable speeds (3000 max).  "An aircraft is a set of compromises working together to achieve levitation."  (WSchulz)

                  Talk about getting off target!  Sorry guys.

                   



                  Bill, the FIAT guy in central FL



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                • Jonathan Ranney
                  Styer-Puch had two versions of the 500 motor. The base model was a 493cc with 16hp. The hot version was a 650cc with 45hp. The Fiat 500 was a 479cc 13hp
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                    Styer-Puch had two versions of the 500 motor. The 'base' model was a 493cc with 16hp.  The 'hot' version was a 650cc with 45hp.

                    The Fiat 500 was a 479cc 13hp motor.     Both examples are 1957.

                    Jon

                     



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                  • Jonathan Ranney
                    I don t think it is still made. I love these kind of discusion. It makes the years of endless scrap book collecting seem worth while. Any other questions?
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                      I don't think it is still made.

                      I love these kind of discusion. It makes  the years of endless scrap book collecting seem worth while.    Any other questions?    :)

                      Jon

                       Bill Schulz <schulznotee@...> wrote:

                      And oops!  Mr Ranney, you got me on the S-P!  Thanks for the insight... much more interesting than I had thought.  My "dusty" info came from an auto mag at the time they were to import the Haflinger... somewhere in the mid-70s I suspect.  Never materialized, though.



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                    • David G.
                      I got my information from the 1965 World Car Catalogue - I think that FIAT was making the 500D by then - am I right? Thanks, David G. ... more
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                        I got my information from the 1965 World Car Catalogue
                        - I think that FIAT was making the 500D by then - am I
                        right?

                        Thanks,
                        David G.

                        --- Jonathan Ranney <fiatpwr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Styer-Puch had two versions of the 500 motor. The
                        > 'base' model was a 493cc with 16hp. The 'hot'
                        > version was a 650cc with 45hp.
                        > The Fiat 500 was a 479cc 13hp motor. Both
                        > examples are 1957.
                        > Jon
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
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                      • David G.
                        I found this posted on a Forum somwhere a little while ago - testimony from a former owner. Back in May I made the fatal (fatal for my GV) mistake of drinkin
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                          I found this posted on a Forum somwhere a little while
                          ago - testimony from a former owner.

                          "Back in May I made the fatal (fatal for my GV)
                          mistake of drinkin' and drivin'. It cost me a 6month
                          old, 2001 GrandVitara and a year of DUI classes and
                          fines. But maybe things really do happen for a
                          reason....
                          To make a long story short, I was trying to get to
                          Denny's from the local club. I made the mistake of
                          entering the freeway when I should have taken the
                          overpass. Well, when I realized my drunken mistake, I
                          tried to doubleback by taking the offramp. A 15mph
                          offramp that I took at 47mph(according to the police
                          report). Obviously i didnt make the uphill, U-turn
                          style offramp exit.... but instead i toppled over at
                          the apex and peak of the turn and tumbled back down
                          towards the freeway. I would have to say I rolled at
                          least 3times and luckily landed 4-on-the-floor on the
                          freeway shoulder (with the engine still running by the
                          way). I was so intoxicated that I thought I had just
                          pulled over onto the shoulder. When I tried to drive
                          off, I heard the engine rev, but i wasnt moving. So i
                          got out of the car to see what was the problem. Thats
                          when I noticed that all 4 of my wheels were half-moon
                          shaped and the tail-end of the GV's roof was pinched
                          down about 5inches. And that's when the police arrived
                          at the scene and hauled me off.
                          The point of this story is two things; Dont drink and
                          drive is the obvious one. But the second thing is that
                          after all what had happened, that little son-of-a-gun
                          saved my life! I mean jeez, I was doing 47mph on a
                          15mph hairpin that Im sure I would have made doing
                          35mph. Then, I rolled 3times obviosly smashing every
                          side of the vehicle (launching off the ground at
                          times) and all I got was a sore neck and a horrible
                          hangover the next day (in the drunk tank). The GV was
                          unsalvagable due to the fact that it had a crease in
                          the frame and the tail-end of the roof was smashed in.
                          But now that I can start over(with a new outlook on
                          drinkin/drivin). I realized that I cant live without
                          my GV!!! I tried to look at all those other new SUV's
                          that came out this year and none of them were as
                          versitile as the GrandVitara. I mean I used to park in
                          spots that a yugo could barely fit into, hit the dunes
                          at Pismo Beach, barrel up the Grapevine (mountain
                          overpass) at a steady 60mph, and load my groceries and
                          laundry with enough room to take my friend with me.
                          And all that at a price that a young, low-paid soldier
                          like myself could afford. When I had my GV, I feared
                          no terrain or chore... maybe that's why I thought I
                          was indestructable while drinkin' and drivin'.
                          But now the lesson is learned, the courts are cleared,
                          the DMV has returned my license, and I can restart my
                          life, hopefully with a new 2002 GrandVitara. Never
                          forgeting how my previous GV was my guardian angel...
                          maybe thats why i picked a white one!?
                          *And just a side note, those new X-7's bite!
                          Micro-sized versatility is the key to Suzuki's
                          success. The X-7 looks like a Montero for pete's sake!
                          Keep the tradition of being in its own class of
                          micro-SUV's alive!!!"

                          Has anybody posted this here before, or read it? Does
                          anybody know who might have written this?

                          Thanks,
                          David G.

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                        • Jonathan Ranney
                          500 57- 60, 500D 60- 65, 500F 65- 72, 500R 72-- 75 David G. wrote:I got my information from the 1965 World Car Catalogue -
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                            500 '57-'60, 500D '60-'65, 500F '65-'72, 500R '72--'75

                             "David G." <winnderfish_falls@...> wrote:

                            I got my information from the 1965 World Car Catalogue
                            - I think that FIAT was making the 500D by then - am I
                            right?



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                          • Bill Schulz
                            FIAT nuova 500 engines: Standard: 479cc, 16hp SAE Sport: 499cc, 21.5hp SAE as per May 1959 Road & Track Bill, the FIAT guy in central FL ... Do you Yahoo!?
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                              FIAT nuova 500 engines:

                              Standard:  479cc, 16hp SAE

                              Sport:  499cc, 21.5hp SAE

                              as per May 1959 Road & Track



                              Bill, the FIAT guy in central FL



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                            • daveyugo@aol.com
                              Hi My brother and I had 2 500 sports 1 digit apart in VIN #s. One of the cars I have had that was REALLY FUN to drive. DaveYugo
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                                Hi My brother and I had 2 500 sports 1 digit apart in VIN #s.

                                One of the cars I have had that was REALLY FUN to drive.

                                DaveYugo
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