Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???

Expand Messages
  • soarabh behra
    Am not worried about the it if ever i get 100k query on my site i will be paying around some $40 a day to yahoo but this query size gives me a enough traffic
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 11, 2009
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Am not worried about the it if ever i get 100k query on my site i will be paying around some $40 a day to yahoo but this query size gives me a enough traffic to make $1000 a day. its not bad at all



      --- On Wed, 2/11/09, benanimhart <benanimhart@...> wrote:
      From: benanimhart <benanimhart@...>
      Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
      To: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 1:42 PM

      You really need to grandfather this. If you care about your developer
      relations, you should not treat them like trash.


    • elan colello
      If I get 30,000 visitors per-day who make a total of 73,000 searches (all from one page), yahoo would bill me $40, and I would only get $300 from your $.01
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 12, 2009
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        If I get 30,000 visitors per-day who make a total of 73,000 searches (all from one page), yahoo would bill me $40, and I would only get $300 from your $.01 cost-per-impression.

        The estimate you gave was right, with 73,000 quires (1-100 results) that "refresh" the page for every search, I will have to pay yahoo $40 a day and I would make $1000. However, your CMP estimate reflects a .01 "per-page-impression" rate. The problem is that I use ajax to load the search results without reloading the page, so one user could conduct 100 searches from the same page. I don't want to refresh the ads everytime a user conducts a new search, because that simply takes too long. So I am left with relying on cost-per-click revenue and mixing in "paid for" results (which my targeted market segments hate and distrust).

        This BOSS program got me to design a product on thebasis of a free service, then it is just my bad luck that my search methods are going to cost me %15 of my revenue...however I must admit that is better than yahoo taking 50% of my yahoo generated ad revenue...and if that was going to be the case then I am happy with the new decision :-)

        Thanks for participating in the disscussion (if my page refreshed like yours does, then I wouldn't mid the cost either),
        - Elan


        To: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:26:29 AM
        Subject: Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???

        Am not worried about the it if ever i get 100k query on my site i will be paying around some $40 a day to yahoo but this query size gives me a enough traffic to make $1000 a day. its not bad at all



        --- On Wed, 2/11/09, benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        From: benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com>
        Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
        To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 1:42 PM

        You really need to grandfather this. If you care about your developer
        relations, you should not treat them like trash.


      • alarnissteve
        I think your math is not correct. CPM is what you get for 1000 impressions, not a single impression. So you will have 30,000 visitors = 30 x 1000 impressions.
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 12, 2009
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          I think your math is not correct.

          CPM is what you get for 1000 impressions, not a single impression.

          So you will have 30,000 visitors = 30 x 1000 impressions.

          At .01 CPM, you will be generating 30 cents a day (30 x .01) and
          paying Yahoo $40 a day.

          You will need at least a $1.20 CPM to just break even. If you can
          get this, I give you respect. But unless you have an army of people
          selling advertising directly to medical device manufacturers and all
          of your users search for "diabetes monitoring" and they all click on
          every piece of advertising, I would estimate that the very best CPM
          you can probably hope for is around .40 - .50.

          (For example, Facebook's cpm is about .20)





          --- In ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com, elan colello <elanishere@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > If I get 30,000 visitors per-day who
          > make a total of 73,000 searches (all from one page), yahoo would
          bill me $40, and I would
          > only get $300 from your $.01 cost-per-impression.
          >
          > The estimate you gave was right, with 73,000 quires (1-100 results)
          that "refresh" the page for every search, I will have to pay yahoo
          $40 a day and I would make $1000. However, your CMP estimate reflects
          a .01 "per-page-impression" rate. The problem is that I use ajax to
          load the search results without reloading the page, so one user could
          conduct 100 searches from the same page. I don't want to refresh the
          ads everytime a user conducts a new search, because that simply takes
          too long. So I am left with relying on cost-per-click revenue and
          mixing in "paid for" results (which my targeted market segments hate
          and distrust).
          >
          > This BOSS program got me to design a product on thebasis of a free
          service, then it is just my bad luck that my search methods are going
          to cost me %15 of my revenue...however I must admit that is better
          than yahoo taking 50% of my yahoo generated ad revenue...and if that
          was going to be the case then I am happy with the new decision :-)
          >
          > Thanks for participating in the disscussion (if my page refreshed
          like yours does, then I wouldn't mid the cost either),
          > - Elan
          >
          >
          >
          > To: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:26:29 AM
          > Subject: Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
          >
          >
          > Am not worried about the it if ever i get 100k query on my site i
          will be paying around some $40 a day to yahoo but this query size
          gives me a enough traffic to make $1000 a day. its not bad at all
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          >
          > From: benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com>
          > Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
          > To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
          > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 1:42 PM
          >
          >
          > You really need to grandfather this. If you care about your
          developer
          > relations, you should not treat them like trash.
          >
        • Ted Drake
          Page refresh vs. user engagement has been an interesting dialogue in the online advertising battle. Do you force a page refresh to maintain impression counts,
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 12, 2009
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment

            Page refresh vs. user engagement has been an interesting dialogue in the online advertising battle. Do you force a page refresh to maintain impression counts, charge by the time spent looking at an ad, or figure out a rotating ad system so the user can make several changes and the ads change accordingly.

             

            This is not specific to the boss discussion, but it is a good thing to look at. I worked on the original Yahoo Tech and the search pages were refreshed with AJAX . This was released over two years ago and we had to consider the ad implications.

             

            Many sites are now looking at the user’s activity and triggering ad refreshes. So don’t change the ad  if a user leaves the site up, but doesn’t make a new query. But if the user makes several queries within a minute or so, you can trigger a new set of ads.

             

            This needs to be documented carefully if you are creating your own ad platform. I don’t think you’ll have as many problems if you use pay-per-click ads.

             

            Ted

             

             


            From: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of elan colello
            Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:01 PM
            To: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???

             

            If I get 30,000 visitors per-day who make a total of 73,000 searches (all from one page), yahoo would bill me $40, and I would only get $300 from your $.01 cost-per-impression .

            The estimate you gave was right, with 73,000 quires (1-100 results) that "refresh" the page for every search, I will have to pay yahoo $40 a day and I would make $1000. However, your CMP estimate reflects a .01 "per-page-impressio n" rate. The problem is that I use ajax to load the search results without reloading the page, so one user could conduct 100 searches from the same page. I don't want to refresh the ads everytime a user conducts a new search, because that simply takes too long. So I am left with relying on cost-per-click revenue and mixing in "paid for" results (which my targeted market segments hate and distrust).

            This BOSS program got me to design a product on thebasis of a free service, then it is just my bad luck that my search methods are going to cost me %15 of my revenue...however I must admit that is better than yahoo taking 50% of my yahoo generated ad revenue...and if that was going to be the case then I am happy with the new decision :-)

            Thanks for participating in the disscussion (if my page refreshed like yours does, then I wouldn't mid the cost either),
            - Elan

          • elan colello
            Hahahaha....you are right and I am in disbelief...so it is even worse than I thought :-) My model is also assuming that each user only makes two search queries
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 12, 2009
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Hahahaha....you are right and I am in disbelief...so it is even worse than I thought :-)

              My model is also assuming that each user only makes two search queries per visit, when in reality we are forecasting that users will be making something more like 10-20 quires per visit to our site...costing me up to $400 per day from yahoo.

              I will just have to reload ads based on the search my users make like Google's Ad Sense or whatever those "paid for" results are called at the top of the page. Perhaps with this new method I will now make more money by slowing my users' search experience, crowding the page design and pissing them off so that they get frustrated enough to leave my site?


              From: alarnissteve <alarnissteve@...>
              To: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:48:55 AM
              Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???

              I think your math is not correct.

              CPM is what you get for 1000 impressions, not a single impression.

              So you will have 30,000 visitors = 30 x 1000 impressions.

              At .01 CPM, you will be generating 30 cents a day (30 x .01) and
              paying Yahoo $40 a day.

              You will need at least a $1.20 CPM to just break even. If you can
              get this, I give you respect. But unless you have an army of people
              selling advertising directly to medical device manufacturers and all
              of your users search for "diabetes monitoring" and they all click on
              every piece of advertising, I would estimate that the very best CPM
              you can probably hope for is around .40 - .50.

              (For example, Facebook's cpm is about .20)

              --- In ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com, elan colello <elanishere@ ...>
              wrote:

              >
              > If I get 30,000 visitors per-day who
              > make a total of 73,000 searches (all from one page), yahoo
              would
              bill me $40, and I would
              > only get $300 from your $.01 cost-per-impression .
              >
              > The estimate you gave was right, with 73,000 quires (1-100 results)
              that "refresh" the page for every search, I will have to pay yahoo
              $40 a day and I would make $1000. However, your CMP estimate reflects
              a .01 "per-page-impressio n" rate. The problem is that I use ajax to
              load the search results without reloading the page, so one user could
              conduct 100 searches from the same page. I don't want to refresh the
              ads everytime a user conducts a new search, because that simply takes
              too long. So I am left with relying on cost-per-click revenue and
              mixing in "paid for" results (which my targeted market segments hate
              and distrust).
              >
              > This BOSS program got me to design a product on thebasis of a free
              service, then it is just my bad luck that my search methods are going
              to cost me %15 of my revenue...however I must admit that is better
              than yahoo taking 50% of my yahoo generated ad revenue...and if that
              was going to be the case then I am happy with the new decision :-)
              >
              > Thanks for participating in the disscussion (if my page refreshed
              like yours does, then I wouldn't mid the cost either),
              > - Elan
              >
              >
              >
              > To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:26:29 AM
              > Subject: Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
              >
              >
              > Am not worried about the it if ever i get 100k query on my site i
              will be paying around some $40 a day to yahoo but this query size
              gives me a enough traffic to make $1000 a day. its not bad at all
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              >
              > From: benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com>
              > Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
              > To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
              > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 1:42 PM
              >
              >
              > You really need to grandfather this. If you care about your
              developer
              > relations, you should not treat them like trash.
              >

            • anshu bansal
              Well, Let me ask you a dumb question.. Is there anyone who is making any money till date? cheers ________________________________ From: elan colello
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 12, 2009
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Well,
                Let me ask you a dumb question.. Is there anyone who is making any money till date?


                cheers


                From: elan colello <elanishere@...>
                To: ysearchboss@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:03:52 AM
                Subject: Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???

                Hahahaha.... you are right and I am in disbelief... so it is even worse than I thought :-)

                My model is also assuming that each user only makes two search queries per visit, when in reality we are forecasting that users will be making something more like 10-20 quires per visit to our site...costing me up to $400 per day from yahoo.

                I will just have to reload ads based on the search my users make like Google's Ad Sense or whatever those "paid for" results are called at the top of the page. Perhaps with this new method I will now make more money by slowing my users' search experience, crowding the page design and pissing them off so that they get frustrated enough to leave my site?


                From: alarnissteve <alarnissteve@ yahoo.co. uk>
                To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:48:55 AM
                Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???

                I think your math is not correct.

                CPM is what you get for 1000 impressions, not a single impression.

                So you will have 30,000 visitors = 30 x 1000 impressions.

                At .01 CPM, you will be generating 30 cents a day (30 x .01) and
                paying Yahoo $40 a day.

                You will need at least a $1.20 CPM to just break even. If you can
                get this, I give you respect. But unless you have an army of people
                selling advertising directly to medical device manufacturers and all
                of your users search for "diabetes monitoring" and they all click on
                every piece of advertising, I would estimate that the very best CPM
                you can probably hope for is around .40 - .50.

                (For example, Facebook's cpm is about .20)

                --- In ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com, elan colello <elanishere@ ...>
                wrote:

                >
                > If I get 30,000 visitors per-day who
                > make a total of 73,000 searches (all from one page), yahoo
                would
                bill me $40, and I would
                > only get $300 from your $.01 cost-per-impression .
                >
                > The estimate you gave was right, with 73,000 quires (1-100 results)
                that "refresh" the page for every search, I will have to pay yahoo
                $40 a day and I would make $1000. However, your CMP estimate reflects
                a .01 "per-page-impressio n" rate. The problem is that I use ajax to
                load the search results without reloading the page, so one user could
                conduct 100 searches from the same page. I don't want to refresh the
                ads everytime a user conducts a new search, because that simply takes
                too long. So I am left with relying on cost-per-click revenue and
                mixing in "paid for" results (which my targeted market segments hate
                and distrust).
                >
                > This BOSS program got me to design a product on thebasis of a free
                service, then it is just my bad luck that my search methods are going
                to cost me %15 of my revenue...however I must admit that is better
                than yahoo taking 50% of my yahoo generated ad revenue...and if that
                was going to be the case then I am happy with the new decision :-)
                >
                > Thanks for participating in the disscussion (if my page refreshed
                like yours does, then I wouldn't mid the cost either),
                > - Elan
                >
                >
                >
                > To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:26:29 AM
                > Subject: Re: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
                >
                >
                > Am not worried about the it if ever i get 100k query on my site i
                will be paying around some $40 a day to yahoo but this query size
                gives me a enough traffic to make $1000 a day. its not bad at all
                >
                >
                >
                > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                >
                > From: benanimhart <benanimhart@ yahoo.com>
                > Subject: [ysearchboss] Re: New BOSS Terms of Use ???
                > To: ysearchboss@ yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 1:42 PM
                >
                >
                > You really need to grandfather this. If you care about your
                developer
                > relations, you should not treat them like trash.
                >

              • boss_newbie
                This is horrible and stinks of typical corporate Yahoo!. We ve spent hundreds of hours developing something that we have not yet released and will now never
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 12, 2009
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  This is horrible and stinks of typical corporate Yahoo!. We've spent
                  hundreds of hours developing something that we have not yet released
                  and will now never release under these terms.

                  We deliver millions of search results each month and have done so for
                  more than 13 years using our own index (yes longer than Google). We
                  were hoping that between Yahoo!'s index and our own we could deliver
                  better, more complete and PageRank free results (Google's junk). But
                  just like Yahoo! did to us years ago, they again didn't think things
                  out and now are turning the table on us partners. Yes, us developers
                  were your partner. This really stinks Yahoo!.

                  We had NO problem what-so-ever delivering monitized results like we
                  all initially thought would one day surface. We developers have been
                  pleading with Yahoo! to tell us what that would be about, but Yahoo!
                  kept brushing this off and acted like it wouldn't be a problem at all.
                  But it is a problem and we obviously don't like it. Keep making
                  mistakes like this and your stock value will be worthless in no time.

                  We are very disappointed in you Yahoo!. We've been sitting here for
                  months waiting for Yahoo! to finally announce their "real" plan and
                  obviously that plan was to screw the very people who could make it all
                  happen for Yahoo!. We thought Yahoo! was being smart by not accepting
                  MSN's purchase offer and was going to take this BOSS idea to a whole
                  new level and show what a true open platform could do. Obviously
                  Yahoo! wasn't thinking on those same lines at all. Instead it seems
                  Yahoo! wants to stand in line for their own government bailout check
                  instead.

                  Your BOSS program was lacking power for the very start. The whole
                  promotional plan for Yahoo! was to have us developers create
                  innovative programs using BOSS. But the API and XML feels lacked any
                  unique data to create anything so called "innovative" or competitive.
                  Compete with who? Yahoo!? Your API provided no Meta information, poor
                  language integration, limited total results and a lack of any powerful
                  boolean queries. Basically all we had was the same results Yahoo!
                  already delivers. What's so innovative or competitive about that? The
                  more data you provide, the more innovative we can be. It's not like
                  this information isn't already available or that it is proprietary or
                  something. You're extracting all this from "our" Web pages anyway.
                  It's what you already have in your index.

                  Anyway, I'm glad Yahoo! finally let us all know before we release our
                  work to the public. We'll now go back to what we've always been doing
                  and will not work on future projects like this again. This was a waste
                  of our time and money and it will prove to be a big failure for Yahoo!
                  I feel.

                  Good luck!
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.