Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New promotions

Expand Messages
  • Steven Miranda
    Hopefully I m not stepping on anyones toes but I ve recently been informed of the following: Kiyoyuki Terada, 10th dan Masazumi Matsuo, 8th dan Chizoku Matsuo,
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 3, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hopefully I'm not stepping on anyones toes but I've recently been
      informed of the following:

      Kiyoyuki Terada, 10th dan
      Masazumi Matsuo, 8th dan
      Chizoku Matsuo, 7th dan

      Congrats to all. Well deserved indeed.

      Steven
    • the_elrin
      wOOt!!!! OSU! CONGRATS! Recently got to work with them in London Ontario. AWSOME!
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 3, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        wOOt!!!!

        OSU!

        CONGRATS!

        Recently got to work with them in London Ontario.

        AWSOME!



        --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <aysdojo@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hopefully I'm not stepping on anyones toes but I've recently been
        > informed of the following:
        >
        > Kiyoyuki Terada, 10th dan
        > Masazumi Matsuo, 8th dan
        > Chizoku Matsuo, 7th dan
        >
        > Congrats to all. Well deserved indeed.
        >
        > Steven
        >
      • aikispike
        Apparently a whole whack more than just those three were recently promoted. If I understand correctly a lagre majority of the senior Japanese instructors in
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 3, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Apparently a whole whack more than just those three were recently
          promoted.

          If I understand correctly a lagre majority of the senior Japanese
          instructors in Japan received promotions. Chida and Inoue Sensei were
          not on the list.

          Spike


          --- Steven Miranda <aysdojo@...> wrote:

          > Hopefully I'm not stepping on anyones toes but I've recently been
          > informed of the following:
          >
          > Kiyoyuki Terada, 10th dan
          > Masazumi Matsuo, 8th dan
          > Chizoku Matsuo, 7th dan
          >
          > Congrats to all. Well deserved indeed.
          >
          > Steven
          >



          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Looking for last minute shopping deals?
          Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
        • Charles Yeomans
          Yep. My instructor, Mizuno sensei, is now Shizuoka shibucho. Charles Yeomans
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 3, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Yep. My instructor, Mizuno sensei, is now Shizuoka shibucho.

            Charles Yeomans

            On Jan 3, 2008, at 5:07 PM, aikispike wrote:

            > Apparently a whole whack more than just those three were recently
            > promoted.
            >
            > If I understand correctly a lagre majority of the senior Japanese
            > instructors in Japan received promotions. Chida and Inoue Sensei were
            > not on the list.
            >
            > Spike
            >
            > --- Steven Miranda <aysdojo@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Hopefully I'm not stepping on anyones toes but I've recently been
            > > informed of the following:
            > >
            > > Kiyoyuki Terada, 10th dan
            > > Masazumi Matsuo, 8th dan
            > > Chizoku Matsuo, 7th dan
            > >
            > > Congrats to all. Well deserved indeed.
            > >
            > > Steven
            > >
            >
          • aikispike
            Happy New Year to all, I, and a few others from my dojo, recently received new dan certificates from Honbu. Having spent a few years in the kitchen of the
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Happy New Year to all,

              I, and a few others from my dojo, recently received new dan
              certificates from Honbu. Having spent a few years in the kitchen of the
              honbu dojo putting the red stamps on IYAF certificates (sorry for the
              sideways stamps from 10 years back - that was probably me), I noticed
              right away that the certs we were getting were different from the ones
              I used to work on.

              But in fact they are not IYAF dan certificates at all. They are honbu
              certificates. The whole lot of us, from shodan and up, received honbu
              dan certificates.

              On the back of the certificates used to be a glued on paper with
              translation of the Japanese on the front into English. There is still a
              glued on paper, but it is not a translation of the front - in that I
              mean the paper on the back does not say what the front of the
              certificate says. The paper on the back says that the dan is registered
              with the IYAF; the front says honbu.

              The IYAF used to issue all dan certificates from first to fourth dan
              outside of Japan. Our new certs are Japanese certificates from honbu,
              but are "registered" with the IYAF.

              Does it matter... it doesn't matter to me on a personal level one way
              or the other - I got a fairly expensive piece of paper that says I am a
              4th dan.

              Does it matter politically - not sure. But perhaps the IYAF is going
              the way of the dodo.

              Spike



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Looking for last minute shopping deals?
              Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
            • Steven Miranda
              ... Ummm ... the sticker on the back was never a translation of what is on the front. At least not since I ve been receiving them and I have 4 at the moment.
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, aikispike <aikispike@...> wrote:
                > On the back of the certificates used to be a glued on paper with
                > translation of the Japanese on the front into English. There is
                > still a glued on paper, but it is not a translation of the front -
                > in that I mean the paper on the back does not say what the front
                > of the certificate says. The paper on the back says that the dan
                > is registered with the IYAF; the front says honbu.

                Ummm ... the sticker on the back was never a translation of what is
                on the front. At least not since I've been receiving them and I have
                4 at the moment.

                Based on the translation that the old IYAF staff posted on the old
                IYAF page, the front of the diploma reads as follows:

                FRONT:
                Dan Certificate
                Reading from right to left
                Certification, Yoshin, Instructors name
                On recommendation of the person listed at right (Instructor)
                (student) is registered as a __dan in Aikido.
                Year / date
                International Yoshinkai Aikido Federation
                President Kiyoko Ono

                BACK STICKER:
                International Yoshinkai Aikido Federation (IYAF)
                IYAF DAN Registration
                Issued by the President of the IYAF Kiyoko Ono at the
                Yoshinkan Honbu Dojo in Tokyo, Japan.

                This certificate is proof that
                "enter name"
                has been awarded the grade of
                "grade"
                in Yoshinkan Aikido

                Signature:
                Date:

                FWIW ...
              • Steven Miranda
                Oh .. I forgot .. Congrats to you and the rest of the gang on passing your test.
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 4, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Oh .. I forgot .. Congrats to you and the rest of the gang on passing
                  your test.
                • matthew jameson
                  Hi Steven, I think what Spike is trying to ilustrate is that for all appearances it looks like the IYAF simply evaporated. Some of the areas where the IYAF
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 4, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Steven,

                    I think what Spike is trying to ilustrate is that for all appearances it looks like the IYAF simply evaporated. Some of the areas where the IYAF differentiated itself from the Yoshinkai (Japan Federation) are 1. Separate certificates (now gone) 2. A different leader (she quit) 3. A separate staff (we all quit) 4. Separate bank accounts (With all the students quitting, Hombu is bleeding money but I'm sure they won't dip into IYAF coffers before closing the doors).

                    Anyway, happy new year to all and great training in 2008!

                    Matthew






                    To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comFrom: aysdojo@...: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 04:08:45 +0000Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from Honbu




                    --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, aikispike <aikispike@...> wrote:> On the back of the certificates used to be a glued on paper with> translation of the Japanese on the front into English. There is> still a glued on paper, but it is not a translation of the front - > in that I mean the paper on the back does not say what the front> of the certificate says. The paper on the back says that the dan > is registered with the IYAF; the front says honbu. Ummm ... the sticker on the back was never a translation of what is on the front. At least not since I've been receiving them and I have 4 at the moment.Based on the translation that the old IYAF staff posted on the old IYAF page, the front of the diploma reads as follows:FRONT:Dan CertificateReading from right to left Certification, Yoshin, Instructors name On recommendation of the person listed at right (Instructor) (student) is registered as a __dan in Aikido. Year / date International Yoshinkai Aikido Federation President Kiyoko Ono BACK STICKER:International Yoshinkai Aikido Federation (IYAF)IYAF DAN RegistrationIssued by the President of the IYAF Kiyoko Ono at theYoshinkan Honbu Dojo in Tokyo, Japan.This certificate is proof that"enter name"has been awarded the grade of"grade"in Yoshinkan AikidoSignature:Date:FWIW ...






                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
                    http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kevin Bradley
                    Hey Mike, I thought it was just me. I tried to impress a Japanese friend of mine, showing him one of my students new shiny certificate and telling him I could
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey Mike, I thought it was just me. I tried to impress a Japanese friend of mine, showing him one of my students new shiny certificate and telling him I could read it. He said, as you indicated, what I quoted was not what was on the sheet. Oh, and I did get a couple of crooked ones some time ago....thanks a lot.

                      On another note, one of my students, Kit Hathaway, moved to Atlanta recently. So first, we all need to send her bottles of water (ha!). But more importantly, she is going to try to invade Aikikai-land and introduce Yoshinkai to Georgia. She's actually in Conyers, GA, and you can get more details on the following site:

                      Rockdale Parks and Rec web site
                      (http://www.rockdalecounty.org/main.cfm?id=2960) or Kit@...
                      Kevin


                      To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comFrom: aikispike@...: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:25:13 -0800Subject: [Yoshinkan] new diploma from Honbu




                      Happy New Year to all,I, and a few others from my dojo, recently received new dancertificates from Honbu. Having spent a few years in the kitchen of thehonbu dojo putting the red stamps on IYAF certificates (sorry for thesideways stamps from 10 years back - that was probably me), I noticedright away that the certs we were getting were different from the onesI used to work on. But in fact they are not IYAF dan certificates at all. They are honbucertificates. The whole lot of us, from shodan and up, received honbudan certificates.On the back of the certificates used to be a glued on paper withtranslation of the Japanese on the front into English. There is still aglued on paper, but it is not a translation of the front - in that Imean the paper on the back does not say what the front of thecertificate says. The paper on the back says that the dan is registeredwith the IYAF; the front says honbu. The IYAF used to issue all dan certificates from first to fourth danoutside of Japan. Our new certs are Japanese certificates from honbu,but are "registered" with the IYAF.Does it matter... it doesn't matter to me on a personal level one wayor the other - I got a fairly expensive piece of paper that says I am a4th dan. Does it matter politically - not sure. But perhaps the IYAF is goingthe way of the dodo.Spike__________________________________________________________Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • aikispike
                      That is sort of it. When Inoue Sensei tried to change some things in how the honbu and IYAF related a few years back the International Yoshinkan world went
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        That is sort of it.

                        When Inoue Sensei tried to change some things in how the honbu and IYAF
                        related a few years back the International Yoshinkan world went
                        completely apeshit. There was a massive petition to the honbu signed by
                        more than a hundred students, and some tens of instructors. This list
                        went crazy.

                        It seems that really drastic changes are a foot now, but no one seems
                        too concerned. Many, if not most, of those instructors who signed the
                        petition a few years back still teach yoshinkan aikido and are on this
                        list.

                        One of the fairly important features of the IYAF was that moneies paid
                        for IYAF diplomas went into supporting the growth of Yoshinkan
                        internationally. The money was supposed to pay for tours - for airplane
                        tickets and the instructor's salary while he was on tour. There was
                        over US$10,000 at one point in the last couple of years. (btw guess how
                        much is left now? It rhymes with Nero) If the there are no more IYAF
                        dan certificates, the IYAF gets no more funds.

                        Frankly, I think that the money should go to honbu because Honbu needs
                        the cash, and the Yoshinkan needs a strong, stable, non-bankrupt honbu
                        dojo. I also think the IYAF as an organization is (was?) kind of silly,
                        and the bylaws close to useless.

                        But a lot of people really think the IYAF is a valuable thing, and it
                        seems to be disappearing in all but name.

                        Spike


                        --- matthew jameson <lightningsmurf@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Hi Steven,
                        >
                        > I think what Spike is trying to ilustrate is that for all appearances
                        > it looks like the IYAF simply evaporated. Some of the areas where the
                        > IYAF differentiated itself from the Yoshinkai (Japan Federation) are
                        > 1. Separate certificates (now gone) 2. A different leader (she quit)
                        > 3. A separate staff (we all quit) 4. Separate bank accounts (With all
                        > the students quitting, Hombu is bleeding money but I'm sure they
                        > won't dip into IYAF coffers before closing the doors).
                        >
                        > Anyway, happy new year to all and great training in 2008!
                        >
                        > Matthew
                        >


                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Be a better friend, newshound, and
                        know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                      • Teddie Linder
                        Hey Spike, Help me out here, but weren t some of the changes Inoue Sensei wanted to institute the following: -Change promotion criteria so that you had to be
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hey Spike,

                          Help me out here, but weren't some of the changes Inoue Sensei wanted to institute the following:

                          -Change promotion criteria so that you had to be yondan before you could promote anyone to shodan
                          -Institute a ranking committee comprised of Japanese instructors located in North America
                          -Institute a way to expel members of the IYAF

                          Changing the certificates seems to be fairly minor in comparison.

                          Teddie

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: aikispike <aikispike@...>
                          To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 2:01:49 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from Honbu














                          That is sort of it.



                          When Inoue Sensei tried to change some things in how the honbu and IYAF

                          related a few years back the International Yoshinkan world went

                          completely apeshit. There was a massive petition to the honbu signed by

                          more than a hundred students, and some tens of instructors. This list

                          went crazy.



                          It seems that really drastic changes are a foot now, but no one seems

                          too concerned. Many, if not most, of those instructors who signed the

                          petition a few years back still teach yoshinkan aikido and are on this

                          list.



                          One of the fairly important features of the IYAF was that moneies paid

                          for IYAF diplomas went into supporting the growth of Yoshinkan

                          internationally. The money was supposed to pay for tours - for airplane

                          tickets and the instructor's salary while he was on tour. There was

                          over US$10,000 at one point in the last couple of years. (btw guess how

                          much is left now? It rhymes with Nero) If the there are no more IYAF

                          dan certificates, the IYAF gets no more funds.



                          Frankly, I think that the money should go to honbu because Honbu needs

                          the cash, and the Yoshinkan needs a strong, stable, non-bankrupt honbu

                          dojo. I also think the IYAF as an organization is (was?) kind of silly,

                          and the bylaws close to useless.



                          But a lot of people really think the IYAF is a valuable thing, and it

                          seems to be disappearing in all but name.



                          Spike



                          --- matthew jameson <lightningsmurf@ hotmail.com> wrote:



                          >

                          > Hi Steven,

                          >

                          > I think what Spike is trying to ilustrate is that for all appearances

                          > it looks like the IYAF simply evaporated. Some of the areas where the

                          > IYAF differentiated itself from the Yoshinkai (Japan Federation) are

                          > 1. Separate certificates (now gone) 2. A different leader (she quit)

                          > 3. A separate staff (we all quit) 4. Separate bank accounts (With all

                          > the students quitting, Hombu is bleeding money but I'm sure they

                          > won't dip into IYAF coffers before closing the doors).

                          >

                          > Anyway, happy new year to all and great training in 2008!

                          >

                          > Matthew

                          >



                          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                          Be a better friend, newshound, and

                          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ














                          <!--

                          #ygrp-mkp{
                          border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}
                          #ygrp-mkp hr{
                          border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
                          #ygrp-mkp #hd{
                          color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}
                          #ygrp-mkp #ads{
                          margin-bottom:10px;}
                          #ygrp-mkp .ad{
                          padding:0 0;}
                          #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
                          color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
                          -->



                          <!--

                          #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
                          font-family:Arial;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
                          margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
                          margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
                          -->



                          <!--

                          #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
                          #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
                          #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
                          #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
                          #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
                          #ygrp-text{
                          font-family:Georgia;
                          }
                          #ygrp-text p{
                          margin:0 0 1em 0;}
                          #ygrp-tpmsgs{
                          font-family:Arial;
                          clear:both;}
                          #ygrp-vitnav{
                          padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}
                          #ygrp-vitnav a{
                          padding:0 1px;}
                          #ygrp-actbar{
                          clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}
                          #ygrp-actbar .left{
                          float:left;white-space:nowrap;}
                          .bld{font-weight:bold;}
                          #ygrp-grft{
                          font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}
                          #ygrp-ft{
                          font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;
                          padding:5px 0;
                          }
                          #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
                          padding-bottom:10px;}

                          #ygrp-vital{
                          background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}
                          #ygrp-vital #vithd{
                          font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}
                          #ygrp-vital ul{
                          padding:0;margin:2px 0;}
                          #ygrp-vital ul li{
                          list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;
                          }
                          #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                          font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}
                          #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                          font-weight:bold;}
                          #ygrp-vital a{
                          text-decoration:none;}

                          #ygrp-vital a:hover{
                          text-decoration:underline;}

                          #ygrp-sponsor #hd{
                          color:#999;font-size:77%;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
                          padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
                          padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
                          list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
                          text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor #nc{
                          background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
                          padding:8px 0;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
                          font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
                          text-decoration:none;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
                          text-decoration:underline;}
                          #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
                          margin:0;}
                          o{font-size:0;}
                          .MsoNormal{
                          margin:0 0 0 0;}
                          #ygrp-text tt{
                          font-size:120%;}
                          blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
                          .replbq{margin:4;}
                          -->








                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                          http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • matthew jameson
                          Hi Teddie, Inoue Sensei tried to make it so North America could administrate itself. The number of Yoshinkan students in North America is increasing every
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Teddie,

                            Inoue Sensei tried to make it so North America could administrate itself. The number of Yoshinkan students in North America is increasing every year, but the number of honbu tours remains about the same. With so many people waiting for the next tour to come to their area so they could be graded - something needed to be done. Senior non-Japanese instructors in North America really didn't like this idea, and it was killed. Though at the very end even the most vocal ones had a change of heart when Inoue Sensei pointed out that the grading council composition could be rotational with each of them participating, too.

                            The main intent of the IYAF - direct access to honbu without the shibu system is of course intact. But beyond that very little has remained the same since Yasuhisa became Kancho. Maybe the changes are good? Maybe they are neutral?

                            Like Spike said, I find it interesting how little has been said on this list. The Japanese list has had about 2,750 message in the past six months - mostly discussing recent changes.

                            Matthew





                            To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comFrom: random462@...: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:55:32 -0800Subject: Re: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from Honbu




                            Hey Spike,Help me out here, but weren't some of the changes Inoue Sensei wanted to institute the following:-Change promotion criteria so that you had to be yondan before you could promote anyone to shodan-Institute a ranking committee comprised of Japanese instructors located in North America-Institute a way to expel members of the IYAFChanging the certificates seems to be fairly minor in comparison. Teddie----- Original Message ----From: aikispike <aikispike@...>To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, January 7, 2008 2:01:49 PMSubject: RE: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from HonbuThat is sort of it.When Inoue Sensei tried to change some things in how the honbu and IYAFrelated a few years back the International Yoshinkan world wentcompletely apeshit. There was a massive petition to the honbu signed bymore than a hundred students, and some tens of instructors. This listwent crazy. It seems that really drastic changes are a foot now, but no one seemstoo concerned. Many, if not most, of those instructors who signed thepetition a few years back still teach yoshinkan aikido and are on thislist. One of the fairly important features of the IYAF was that moneies paidfor IYAF diplomas went into supporting the growth of Yoshinkaninternationally. The money was supposed to pay for tours - for airplanetickets and the instructor's salary while he was on tour. There wasover US$10,000 at one point in the last couple of years. (btw guess howmuch is left now? It rhymes with Nero) If the there are no more IYAFdan certificates, the IYAF gets no more funds. Frankly, I think that the money should go to honbu because Honbu needsthe cash, and the Yoshinkan needs a strong, stable, non-bankrupt honbudojo. I also think the IYAF as an organization is (was?) kind of silly,and the bylaws close to useless. But a lot of people really think the IYAF is a valuable thing, and itseems to be disappearing in all but name. Spike--- matthew jameson <lightningsmurf@ hotmail.com> wrote:> > Hi Steven,> > I think what Spike is trying to ilustrate is that for all appearances> it looks like the IYAF simply evaporated. Some of the areas where the> IYAF differentiated itself from the Yoshinkai (Japan Federation) are> 1. Separate certificates (now gone) 2. A different leader (she quit)> 3. A separate staff (we all quit) 4. Separate bank accounts (With all> the students quitting, Hombu is bleeding money but I'm sure they> won't dip into IYAF coffers before closing the doors).> > Anyway, happy new year to all and great training in 2008!> > Matthew> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ <!--#ygrp-mkp{border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}#ygrp-mkp hr{border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrp-mkp #hd{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}#ygrp-mkp #ads{margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-mkp .ad{padding:0 0;}#ygrp-mkp .ad a{color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}--><!--#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{font-family:Arial;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}--><!--#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text{font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 0 1em 0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs{font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:0 1px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar .left{float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft{font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}#ygrp-ft{font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;padding:5px 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital #vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul{padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ul li{list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-vital a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vital a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor #hd{color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor #nc{background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad{padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{margin:0;}o{font-size:0;}.MsoNormal{margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-text tt{font-size:120%;}blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}.replbq{margin:4;}-->__________________________________________________________Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
                            http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Dan Botari
                            I think, in part, the reason this list s so quite is that we don t know or are not aware of the full extent of the changes that have taken place at Honbu.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think, in part, the reason this list s so quite is that we don't know or
                              are not aware of the full extent of the changes that have taken place at
                              Honbu. Other than the some of the higher level departures little has been
                              communicated to this list about the new regime and their stated goals etc.
                              If the English pages of the Hunbu or IYAF site are ever completed or the
                              info disseminated, maybe there would be more opinions expressed.



                              Dan



                              From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of matthew jameson
                              Sent: January-07-08 7:04 PM
                              To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from Honbu



                              Hi Teddie,

                              Inoue Sensei tried to make it so North America could administrate itself.
                              The number of Yoshinkan students in North America is increasing every year,
                              but the number of honbu tours remains about the same. With so many people
                              waiting for the next tour to come to their area so they could be graded -
                              something needed to be done. Senior non-Japanese instructors in North
                              America really didn't like this idea, and it was killed. Though at the very
                              end even the most vocal ones had a change of heart when Inoue Sensei pointed
                              out that the grading council composition could be rotational with each of
                              them participating, too.

                              The main intent of the IYAF - direct access to honbu without the shibu
                              system is of course intact. But beyond that very little has remained the
                              same since Yasuhisa became Kancho. Maybe the changes are good? Maybe they
                              are neutral?

                              Like Spike said, I find it interesting how little has been said on this
                              list. The Japanese list has had about 2,750 message in the past six months -
                              mostly discussing recent changes.

                              Matthew




                              To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:yoshinkan%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :
                              random462@... <mailto:random462%40yahoo.comDate> : Mon, 7 Jan 2008
                              11:55:32 -0800Subject: Re: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from Honbu

                              Hey Spike,Help me out here, but weren't some of the changes Inoue Sensei
                              wanted to institute the following:-Change promotion criteria so that you had
                              to be yondan before you could promote anyone to shodan-Institute a ranking
                              committee comprised of Japanese instructors located in North
                              America-Institute a way to expel members of the IYAFChanging the
                              certificates seems to be fairly minor in comparison. Teddie----- Original
                              Message ----From: aikispike <aikispike@...
                              <mailto:aikispike%40yahoo.com> >To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comSent
                              <mailto:yoshinkan%40yahoogroups.comSent> : Monday, January 7, 2008 2:01:49
                              PMSubject: RE: [Yoshinkan] Re: new diploma from HonbuThat is sort of it.When
                              Inoue Sensei tried to change some things in how the honbu and IYAFrelated a
                              few years back the International Yoshinkan world wentcompletely apeshit.
                              There was a massive petition to the honbu signed bymore than a hundred
                              students, and some tens of instructors. This listwent crazy. It seems that
                              really drastic changes are a foot now, but no one seemstoo concerned. Many,
                              if not most, of those instructors who signed thepetition a few years back
                              still teach yoshinkan aikido and are on thislist. One of the fairly
                              important features of the IYAF was that moneies paidfor IYAF diplomas went
                              into supporting the growth of Yoshinkaninternationally. The money was
                              supposed to pay for tours - for airplanetickets and the instructor's salary
                              while he was on tour. There wasover US$10,000 at one point in the last
                              couple of years. (btw guess howmuch is left now? It rhymes with Nero) If the
                              there are no more IYAFdan certificates, the IYAF gets no more funds.
                              Frankly, I think that the money should go to honbu because Honbu needsthe
                              cash, and the Yoshinkan needs a strong, stable, non-bankrupt honbudojo. I
                              also think the IYAF as an organization is (was?) kind of silly,and the
                              bylaws close to useless. But a lot of people really think the IYAF is a
                              valuable thing, and itseems to be disappearing in all but name. Spike---
                              matthew jameson <lightningsmurf@ hotmail.com> wrote:> > Hi Steven,> > I
                              think what Spike is trying to ilustrate is that for all appearances> it
                              looks like the IYAF simply evaporated. Some of the areas where the> IYAF
                              differentiated itself from the Yoshinkai (Japan Federation) are> 1. Separate
                              certificates (now gone) 2. A different leader (she quit)> 3. A separate
                              staff (we all quit) 4. Separate bank accounts (With all> the students
                              quitting, Hombu is bleeding money but I'm sure they> won't dip into IYAF
                              coffers before closing the doors).> > Anyway, happy new year to all and
                              great training in 2008!> > Matthew> ____________ _________ _________
                              _________ _________ _________ _Be a better friend, newshound, and
                              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/
                              ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ <!--#ygrp-mkp{border:1px solid
                              #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}#ygrp-mkp
                              hr{border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrp-mkp
                              #hd{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10p
                              x 0px;}#ygrp-mkp #ads{margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-mkp .ad{padding:0
                              0;}#ygrp-mkp .ad a{color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}--><!--#ygrp-sponsor
                              #ygrp-lc{font-family:Arial;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{margin:10px
                              0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc
                              .ad{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}--><!--#ygrp-mlmsg
                              {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg
                              table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea
                              {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code
                              {font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg *
                              {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text{font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 0
                              1em
                              0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs{font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px;
                              font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:0
                              1px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px
                              0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar
                              .left{float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft{font-
                              family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px
                              0;}#ygrp-ft{font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid
                              #666;padding:5px 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg
                              #logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background-color:#e0ecee;margin-botto
                              m:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital
                              #vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-tr
                              ansform:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul{padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ul
                              li{list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ul
                              li
                              .ct{font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;pa
                              dding-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-vital
                              a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vital
                              a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor
                              #hd{color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px
                              13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov
                              ul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov
                              li{list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li
                              a{text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor
                              #nc{background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor
                              .ad{padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad
                              #hd1{font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-he
                              ight:122%;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad
                              a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad
                              p{margin:0;}o{font-size:0;}.MsoNormal{margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-text
                              tt{font-size:120%;}blockquote{margin:0 0 0
                              4px;}.replbq{margin:4;}-->__________________________________________________
                              ________Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs[Non-text portions of this message have been
                              removed]

                              __________________________________________________________
                              Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
                              http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Steven Miranda
                              Japanese list? Where can one sign up for this list? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Japanese list? Where can one sign up for this list?

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Steven Miranda
                                ... Like what? What else has changed that directly impacts the IYAF? Other than what appears to simply be a standardized diploma which is no big deal really.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, matthew jameson <lightningsmurf@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >The main intent of the IYAF - direct access to honbu without the shibu
                                  >system is of course intact. But beyond that very little has remained
                                  >the same since Yasuhisa became Kancho.

                                  Like what? What else has changed that directly impacts the IYAF? Other
                                  than what appears to simply be a standardized diploma which is no big
                                  deal really.

                                  Steven
                                • koyaji
                                  Hello Matthew, Would you post a link to the Japanese list please? I ve only seen the venom on 2ch, and would love to see some discussion on a Yoshinkan group.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hello Matthew,

                                    Would you post a link to the Japanese list please?
                                    I've only seen the venom on 2ch, and would love to see some
                                    discussion on a Yoshinkan group.


                                    I also find the relative silence here interesting. Maybe it's
                                    because only people in Japan are really feeling (or even know about?)
                                    the changes? Or maybe it doesn't matter outside honbu because
                                    affiliated dojo have autonomy?

                                    The only time a lot of people spoke up here recently was when the
                                    integrity of the Senshusei course came into question. I would feel
                                    exactly the same way if I were a Senshusei graduate, but the fact
                                    that people found out only because it suddenly posted on the website
                                    I think that points to a deeper rooted issue.
                                    The sudden reversal of those changes to the senshusei course proves
                                    that voices are being heard, too, so I am puzzled at the collective
                                    shoulder shrug at the many other significant events over the last
                                    year.

                                    One look at the new organization chart on the new website shows
                                    exactly what happened to the IYAF. It isn't an independant body
                                    anymore, it is a liasion between international affiliated dojo and
                                    the honbu (Yoshinkan not Yoshinkai). Unless that chart is
                                    inaccurate, the IYAF is like an international phone operator when you
                                    call the honbu or it calls you. It's under the honbu now.
                                    Maybe that's the way it should be, I don't know.

                                    Or maybe Yoshinkan has decentralized to the point where the Yoshinkai
                                    and honbu leadership don't matter anymore outside themselves?
                                  • Steven Miranda
                                    ... ... and this has changed how? The IYAF has always been managed/administered by the honbu dojo with it s diplomas signed by the Kancho or Dojocho of the
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      >One look at the new organization chart on the new website shows
                                      >exactly what happened to the IYAF. It isn't an independant body
                                      >anymore, it is a liasion between international affiliated dojo and
                                      >the honbu (Yoshinkan not Yoshinkai).

                                      ... and this has changed how? The IYAF has always been managed/administered by
                                      the honbu dojo with it's diplomas signed by the Kancho or Dojocho of the Yoshinkai/Yoshinkan
                                      I fail to see how anything has changed. Is the Senshusei course which is to develop IYAF
                                      instructors not taught by the honbu dojo staff?

                                      Please enlighten me because obvious I'm missing something.

                                      Steven

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • matthew jameson
                                      Hi Steven and Koyaji, I may have used the wrong internet term when I wrote list. Do they use BB outside of Japan? The Japanese messages I was referring to
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Steven and Koyaji,

                                        I may have used the wrong internet term when I wrote "list." Do they use "BB" outside of Japan? The Japanese messages I was referring to are the aptly characterized 2ch venom. Each thread seems to stop after 1000 messages and there have been a few threads completed since I started checking it from time to time. The overall themes seem to revolve around the recent shakeups, and are very, very negative. Despite this, there are other sub-themes that are sometimes interesting. One poster commented about their experiences training with foreigners who come to Japan for aikido, and some people added their thoughts. Another topic was about how future senshusei may be pigeoned as pre-2008 or post 2008 graduates. Some posters expressed their support for the senshusei program and hoped that it won't die off.

                                        There is also a general aikido list at: http://messages.yahoo.co.jp/bbs?action=m&board=1834944&tid=9g5a4fbbbb0kf&sid=1834944&mid=207

                                        Looking at the organization chart I don't think there is any significant change in the organizational structure per se. Partly it is just a question of how information is represented. The IYAF was never entirely autonomous from the Yoshinkai. That said, the shift to a common certificate suggests the IYAF is being deliberately integrated with the Yoshinkai.

                                        What Koyaji wrote about decentralization may be rather close to the mark. When the IYAF was created most senior instructors were centralized in honbu. These days the more senior instructors have all left honbu and student loyalties have naturally followed. It will be interesting to see how things unfold over the next few years.

                                        Matthew






                                        To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.comFrom: koyaji@...: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 04:00:51 +0000Subject: [Yoshinkan] Link to the Japanese list please!




                                        Hello Matthew,Would you post a link to the Japanese list please?I've only seen the venom on 2ch, and would love to see some discussion on a Yoshinkan group.I also find the relative silence here interesting. Maybe it's because only people in Japan are really feeling (or even know about?) the changes? Or maybe it doesn't matter outside honbu because affiliated dojo have autonomy?The only time a lot of people spoke up here recently was when the integrity of the Senshusei course came into question. I would feel exactly the same way if I were a Senshusei graduate, but the fact that people found out only because it suddenly posted on the website I think that points to a deeper rooted issue.The sudden reversal of those changes to the senshusei course proves that voices are being heard, too, so I am puzzled at the collective shoulder shrug at the many other significant events over the last year.One look at the new organization chart on the new website shows exactly what happened to the IYAF. It isn't an independant body anymore, it is a liasion between international affiliated dojo and the honbu (Yoshinkan not Yoshinkai). Unless that chart is inaccurate, the IYAF is like an international phone operator when you call the honbu or it calls you. It's under the honbu now.Maybe that's the way it should be, I don't know. Or maybe Yoshinkan has decentralized to the point where the Yoshinkai and honbu leadership don't matter anymore outside themselves?






                                        _________________________________________________________________
                                        Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
                                        http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Steven Miranda
                                        Thanks for the clarification Matthew.... _____ From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matthew jameson Sent: Monday,
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks for the clarification Matthew....

                                          _____

                                          From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          Of matthew jameson
                                          Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:50 PM
                                          To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [Yoshinkan] Link to the Japanese list please!



                                          Hi Steven and Koyaji,

                                          I may have used the wrong internet term when I wrote "list." Do they use
                                          "BB" outside of Japan? The Japanese messages I was referring to are the
                                          aptly characterized 2ch venom. Each thread seems to stop after 1000 messages
                                          and there have been a few threads completed since I started checking it from
                                          time to time. The overall themes seem to revolve around the recent shakeups,
                                          and are very, very negative. Despite this, there are other sub-themes that
                                          are sometimes interesting. One poster commented about their experiences
                                          training with foreigners who come to Japan for aikido, and some people added
                                          their thoughts. Another topic was about how future senshusei may be pigeoned
                                          as pre-2008 or post 2008 graduates. Some posters expressed their support for
                                          the senshusei program and hoped that it won't die off.

                                          There is also a general aikido list at: http://messages.
                                          <http://messages.yahoo.co.jp/bbs?action=m&board=1834944&tid=9g5a4fbbbb0kf&si
                                          d=1834944&mid=207>
                                          yahoo.co.jp/bbs?action=m&board=1834944&tid=9g5a4fbbbb0kf&sid=1834944&mid=207


                                          Looking at the organization chart I don't think there is any significant
                                          change in the organizational structure per se. Partly it is just a question
                                          of how information is represented. The IYAF was never entirely autonomous
                                          from the Yoshinkai. That said, the shift to a common certificate suggests
                                          the IYAF is being deliberately integrated with the Yoshinkai.

                                          What Koyaji wrote about decentralization may be rather close to the mark.
                                          When the IYAF was created most senior instructors were centralized in honbu.
                                          These days the more senior instructors have all left honbu and student
                                          loyalties have naturally followed. It will be interesting to see how things
                                          unfold over the next few years.

                                          Matthew





                                          To: yoshinkan@yahoogrou <mailto:yoshinkan%40yahoogroups.comFrom> ps.comFrom:
                                          koyaji@yahoo. <mailto:koyaji%40yahoo.comDate> comDate: Tue, 8 Jan 2008
                                          04:00:51 +0000Subject: [Yoshinkan] Link to the Japanese list please!

                                          Hello Matthew,Would you post a link to the Japanese list please?I've only
                                          seen the venom on 2ch, and would love to see some discussion on a Yoshinkan
                                          group.I also find the relative silence here interesting. Maybe it's because
                                          only people in Japan are really feeling (or even know about?) the changes?
                                          Or maybe it doesn't matter outside honbu because affiliated dojo have
                                          autonomy?The only time a lot of people spoke up here recently was when the
                                          integrity of the Senshusei course came into question. I would feel exactly
                                          the same way if I were a Senshusei graduate, but the fact that people found
                                          out only because it suddenly posted on the website I think that points to a
                                          deeper rooted issue.The sudden reversal of those changes to the senshusei
                                          course proves that voices are being heard, too, so I am puzzled at the
                                          collective shoulder shrug at the many other significant events over the last
                                          year.One look at the new organization chart on the new website shows exactly
                                          what happened to the IYAF. It isn't an independant body anymore, it is a
                                          liasion between international affiliated dojo and the honbu (Yoshinkan not
                                          Yoshinkai). Unless that chart is inaccurate, the IYAF is like an
                                          international phone operator when you call the honbu or it calls you. It's
                                          under the honbu now.Maybe that's the way it should be, I don't know. Or
                                          maybe Yoshinkan has decentralized to the point where the Yoshinkai and honbu
                                          leadership don't matter anymore outside themselves?

                                          __________________________________________________________
                                          Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
                                          http://messenger.
                                          <http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/>
                                          msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • koyaji
                                          No offense intended and sorry if there was some misunderstanding. I am not trying to enlighten anyone, nor did I intend suggest that anything with regard to
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            No offense intended and sorry if there was some misunderstanding.

                                            I am not trying to enlighten anyone, nor did I intend suggest that
                                            anything with regard to diplomas and certificates has changed.
                                            I am aware that the IYAF has always coordinated the issuing of
                                            certificates from honbu and that its function is mainly to provide
                                            people internationally with access to official recognition.

                                            But it seems to me that the IYAF was thought of as being somewhat of
                                            an independently administrated federation under honbu to serve the
                                            interests of international dojo.
                                            Oviously honbu has the last word on everything, but it looks like the
                                            IYAF is strictly a liaison to honbu and not a self-funded,
                                            independently administered federation anymore.
                                            Maybe I'm wrong, but that's all I meant to question.

                                            As I understand it, the IYAF was launched by honbu but supposed to be
                                            a volunteer administrated, self-funding body to coordinate
                                            international affairs and it would raise funds through onetime
                                            membership fees or certificates or whatever (but not get money from
                                            Yoshinkan or Yoshinkai).
                                            IYAF money would then go towards and admin and subsidizing travel
                                            costs for honbu instructors, or so I've read and been told.
                                            Unless that function (instructor visits) is handled by each regional
                                            group or dojo under the federation now (like they hang on to a
                                            percentage of the member fees or something) then the IYAF doesn't
                                            appear work the way it did before or else why would it be broke?

                                            I'm sure you know a whole lot more about the IYAF than I do.
                                            I just thought that the way it is represented on the website was
                                            interesting and since no one seems to know anything, I was
                                            questioning the way it is represented on the website.

                                            Someone pointed out that the IYAF is broke. If the IYAF is collecting
                                            fees but doesn't have any money of its own, then it seems likely
                                            that it is collecting all fees on behalf honbu, not just
                                            administrative ones related to certificates, and accounts are now
                                            combined.
                                            Whether those funds are then allocated to IYAF functions, I don't
                                            know – but does anyone else?

                                            I'm going based on published IYAF bylaws. That's all I know. But,
                                            unfortunately, the IYAF website still instructs people to make
                                            payments in the name of the ex-president, who has apparently long
                                            since left, so even the original bylaws may not be accurate anymore.

                                            Maybe announcements that are not to be made public are going out to
                                            groups under the federation.
                                            Maybe individual dojo owners or regional representation groups are
                                            provided with reports on IYAF affairs.
                                            But since no one seems to know much, I assume not.

                                            That's all I meant to say.
                                            Sorry if I pissed you off.


                                            >
                                            > ... and this has changed how? The IYAF has always been
                                            managed/administered by
                                            > the honbu dojo with it's diplomas signed by the Kancho or Dojocho
                                            of the Yoshinkai/Yoshinkan
                                            > I fail to see how anything has changed. Is the Senshusei course
                                            which is to develop IYAF
                                            > instructors not taught by the honbu dojo staff?
                                            >
                                            > Please enlighten me because obvious I'm missing something.
                                            >
                                            > Steven
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • koyaji
                                            Hello Matthew & Steven The long post I just put up was written before I saw Matthews. Thanks for the info and clarification, Matthew I hope I didn t offend,
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hello Matthew & Steven

                                              The long post I just put up was written before I saw Matthews.

                                              Thanks for the info and clarification, Matthew

                                              I hope I didn't offend, Steven.
                                              I wasn't trying suggest that anyone's diplomas have changed or
                                              anything.
                                              I just think that the IYAF has changed in it's intention, if not it's
                                              function.
                                              That's all.

                                              Ian


                                              --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, matthew jameson
                                              <lightningsmurf@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Steven and Koyaji,
                                              >
                                              > I may have used the wrong internet term when I wrote "list." Do
                                              they use "BB" outside of Japan? The Japanese messages I was referring
                                              to are the aptly characterized 2ch venom. Each thread seems to stop
                                              after 1000 messages and there have been a few threads completed since
                                              I started checking it from time to time. The overall themes seem to
                                              revolve around the recent shakeups, and are very, very negative.
                                              Despite this, there are other sub-themes that are sometimes
                                              interesting. One poster commented about their experiences training
                                              with foreigners who come to Japan for aikido, and some people added
                                              their thoughts. Another topic was about how future senshusei may be
                                              pigeoned as pre-2008 or post 2008 graduates. Some posters expressed
                                              their support for the senshusei program and hoped that it won't die
                                              off.
                                              >
                                              > There is also a general aikido list at:
                                              http://messages.yahoo.co.jp/bbs?
                                              action=m&board=1834944&tid=9g5a4fbbbb0kf&sid=1834944&mid=207
                                              >
                                              > Looking at the organization chart I don't think there is any
                                              significant change in the organizational structure per se. Partly it
                                              is just a question of how information is represented. The IYAF was
                                              never entirely autonomous from the Yoshinkai. That said, the shift to
                                              a common certificate suggests the IYAF is being deliberately
                                              integrated with the Yoshinkai.
                                              >
                                              > What Koyaji wrote about decentralization may be rather close to the
                                              mark. When the IYAF was created most senior instructors were
                                              centralized in honbu. These days the more senior instructors have all
                                              left honbu and student loyalties have naturally followed. It will be
                                              interesting to see how things unfold over the next few years.
                                              >
                                              > Matthew
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > To: yoshinkan@...: koyaji@...: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 04:00:51
                                              +0000Subject: [Yoshinkan] Link to the Japanese list please!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hello Matthew,Would you post a link to the Japanese list please?
                                              I've only seen the venom on 2ch, and would love to see some
                                              discussion on a Yoshinkan group.I also find the relative silence here
                                              interesting. Maybe it's because only people in Japan are really
                                              feeling (or even know about?) the changes? Or maybe it doesn't matter
                                              outside honbu because affiliated dojo have autonomy?The only time a
                                              lot of people spoke up here recently was when the integrity of the
                                              Senshusei course came into question. I would feel exactly the same
                                              way if I were a Senshusei graduate, but the fact that people found
                                              out only because it suddenly posted on the website I think that
                                              points to a deeper rooted issue.The sudden reversal of those changes
                                              to the senshusei course proves that voices are being heard, too, so I
                                              am puzzled at the collective shoulder shrug at the many other
                                              significant events over the last year.One look at the new
                                              organization chart on the new website shows exactly what happened to
                                              the IYAF. It isn't an independant body anymore, it is a liasion
                                              between international affiliated dojo and the honbu (Yoshinkan not
                                              Yoshinkai). Unless that chart is inaccurate, the IYAF is like an
                                              international phone operator when you call the honbu or it calls you.
                                              It's under the honbu now.Maybe that's the way it should be, I don't
                                              know. Or maybe Yoshinkan has decentralized to the point where the
                                              Yoshinkai and honbu leadership don't matter anymore outside
                                              themselves?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's
                                              FREE!
                                              > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • Steven Miranda
                                              No offense taken I can assure you. I was just curious what you may know since you seemed to have first hand knowledge. As I recall, you train, or trained, at
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                No offense taken I can assure you. I was just curious what you may know
                                                since you seemed to have first hand knowledge. As I recall, you train, or
                                                trained, at honbu dojo.
                                                _____

                                                From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                Of koyaji
                                                Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:07 PM
                                                To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Link to the Japanese list please!

                                                > No offense intended and sorry if there was some misunderstanding.

                                                <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1100816/grpspId=1705357511/msgId
                                                =8458/stime=1199772416/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4025304>



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • the_elrin
                                                Someone please explain the difference (if any) between Yoshinkan and Yoshinkai. OSU! (in advance) Andrew ... know ... train, or ... On Behalf ...
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jan 7, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Someone please explain the difference (if any) between Yoshinkan and
                                                  Yoshinkai.

                                                  OSU! (in advance)

                                                  Andrew




                                                  --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <AYSDojo@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > No offense taken I can assure you. I was just curious what you may
                                                  know
                                                  > since you seemed to have first hand knowledge. As I recall, you
                                                  train, or
                                                  > trained, at honbu dojo.
                                                  > _____
                                                  >
                                                  > From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com]
                                                  On Behalf
                                                  > Of koyaji
                                                  > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:07 PM
                                                  > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Link to the Japanese list please!
                                                  >
                                                  > > No offense intended and sorry if there was some
                                                  misunderstanding.
                                                  >
                                                  > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
                                                  s=97359714/grpId=1100816/grpspId=1705357511/msgId
                                                  > =8458/stime=1199772416/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4025304>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                • koyaji
                                                  I see. Thanks for the message. Glad no offense was taken. I do train at honbu, but the only real knowledge I have is from keeping my ear to the ground and
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jan 8, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I see. Thanks for the message.
                                                    Glad no offense was taken.

                                                    I do train at honbu, but the only real knowledge I have is from
                                                    keeping my ear to the ground and talking to people I know, which I
                                                    started doing a lot after Inoue sensei left and things started
                                                    changing rapidly.
                                                    I've heard an awful lot, but I'm by no means an insder or anything
                                                    myself.

                                                    I've only been at honbu for a little over year and a half, but until
                                                    recently I was averaging four to five times a week. I really like
                                                    Yoshinkan and all the teachers and regular training parterners I've
                                                    had, and it's really hard watching things break apart.
                                                    A lot of people I got to know well have left. Some have drifted to
                                                    other dojos or are contemplating doing so. It's just a tough
                                                    situation.

                                                    Anway, I don't know much about what's going on in the organization
                                                    except hearsay.
                                                    I'm just a very concerned citizen :)

                                                    Ian

                                                    --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <AYSDojo@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > No offense taken I can assure you. I was just curious what you may
                                                    know
                                                    > since you seemed to have first hand knowledge. As I recall, you
                                                    train, or
                                                    > trained, at honbu dojo.
                                                    > _____
                                                    >
                                                    > From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com]
                                                    On Behalf
                                                    > Of koyaji
                                                    > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:07 PM
                                                    > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Link to the Japanese list please!
                                                    >
                                                    > > No offense intended and sorry if there was some
                                                    misunderstanding.
                                                    >
                                                    > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
                                                    s=97359714/grpId=1100816/grpspId=1705357511/msgId
                                                    > =8458/stime=1199772416/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4025304>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                  • koyaji
                                                    Yoshinkan is the name of the dojo, whereas the Yoshinkai is the name of the foundation (non-profit organization) that runs the dojo and all branch and
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Jan 8, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Yoshinkan is the name of the dojo, whereas the Yoshinkai is the name
                                                      of the foundation (non-profit organization) that runs the dojo and
                                                      all branch and affiliated dojo.

                                                      The suffix "kan" is "house" or "building", and "kai", loosely
                                                      translated, means "society".

                                                      Hope that helps.


                                                      Ian

                                                      --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "the_elrin" <atomarin@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Someone please explain the difference (if any) between Yoshinkan
                                                      and
                                                      > Yoshinkai.
                                                      >
                                                      > OSU! (in advance)
                                                      >
                                                      > Andrew
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <AYSDojo@>
                                                      > wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > No offense taken I can assure you. I was just curious what you
                                                      may
                                                      > know
                                                      > > since you seemed to have first hand knowledge. As I recall, you
                                                      > train, or
                                                      > > trained, at honbu dojo.
                                                      > > _____
                                                      > >
                                                      > > From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                      [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com]
                                                      > On Behalf
                                                      > > Of koyaji
                                                      > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:07 PM
                                                      > > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Link to the Japanese list please!
                                                      > >
                                                      > > > No offense intended and sorry if there was some
                                                      > misunderstanding.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
                                                      > s=97359714/grpId=1100816/grpspId=1705357511/msgId
                                                      > > =8458/stime=1199772416/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4025304>
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • Andrew@ Georgian
                                                      Thank you. I thought it might be something like that. Andrew ... From: koyaji To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:10 PM Subject:
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Jan 8, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Thank you. I thought it might be something like that.

                                                        Andrew


                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: koyaji
                                                        To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:10 PM
                                                        Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Link to the Japanese list please!


                                                        Yoshinkan is the name of the dojo, whereas the Yoshinkai is the name
                                                        of the foundation (non-profit organization) that runs the dojo and
                                                        all branch and affiliated dojo.

                                                        The suffix "kan" is "house" or "building", and "kai", loosely
                                                        translated, means "society".

                                                        Hope that helps.

                                                        Ian

                                                        --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "the_elrin" <atomarin@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Someone please explain the difference (if any) between Yoshinkan
                                                        and
                                                        > Yoshinkai.
                                                        >
                                                        > OSU! (in advance)
                                                        >
                                                        > Andrew
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <AYSDojo@>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > No offense taken I can assure you. I was just curious what you
                                                        may
                                                        > know
                                                        > > since you seemed to have first hand knowledge. As I recall, you
                                                        > train, or
                                                        > > trained, at honbu dojo.
                                                        > > _____
                                                        > >
                                                        > > From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                        [mailto:yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com]
                                                        > On Behalf
                                                        > > Of koyaji
                                                        > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:07 PM
                                                        > > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Link to the Japanese list please!
                                                        > >
                                                        > > > No offense intended and sorry if there was some
                                                        > misunderstanding.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
                                                        > s=97359714/grpId=1100816/grpspId=1705357511/msgId
                                                        > > =8458/stime=1199772416/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4025304>
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > >
                                                        >





                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.