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[yoshinkan] Re: Darren, some information please.

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  • Darren Friend and Peggy Woo
    Not sure about this myself. I don t know of any rule changes as such. In the past it has clearly stated in by laws that only honbu teachers could grade above
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 1999
      Not sure about this myself. I don't know of any rule changes as such. In the past it has clearly stated in by laws that only honbu teachers could grade above 5th, To broaden this the committee was formed. It has backfired. I don't know what will happen from now.

      Darren

      enore's mail wrote:

      > Sorry about this Darren but I don't seem to get anything about timing of rule changes. I sent the portion below some while ago but received no answer. Would you be able to enlighten me or should I just forget about it??? The important part is the last paragraph.
      >
      > I believe the brush should be spread somewhat wider. Kimeda sensei
      > recommended (tested) for 5th - 6th DAN (myself, Phil and Dave Ho). Parker
      > sensei tested and recommended for 5th DAN (Sue Jeanette). Morita sensei
      > recommended for 5th DAN (Chris Howie). Recommendations were sent for 6th
      > DAN for two other people (I'm not sure who recommended them (Parker
      > sensei???)). I've no idea if any of this was delegated by honbu because all
      > testers/recommenders were senior instructors.
      > I do know that Kimeda sensei received a letter from the honbu
      > sometime in the fall stating that he was one of 5 members of a grading
      > committee. He sent our test results to be approved/signed by the other four
      > members. To that level he played it square. To the IYAF level you'll have
      > to ask the honbu.
      > I may be mistaken in this, but I was under the impression that the
      > rule where only honbu instructors could grade from 5th DAN up comes into
      > effect (if it does at all) in or after March of this year. At least that
      > was the impression I had from the meeting I was at in Halton Hills. The
      > talk was about having time to send letters in to Inoue sensei to change his
      > mind about proposed grading level changes etc. Under my undertanding of
      > this, none of the above is wrong. An 8th DAN can still recommend to 6th DAN.
      > If I'm wrong I'm sure I'll quickly learn about it.
      >
      > Just wondering if the last paragraph is correct.
      >
      > Thanks Darren! *** Enore ***




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    • Chris Howey
      Since we re all sharing our ignorance here -- The subject of various seniors having grading authority has come up several times concerning the issue of 5th
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 1, 1999
        Since we're all sharing our ignorance here --

        The subject of various seniors having grading 'authority" has come up
        several times concerning the issue of 5th dans and higher.

        Having recently been one of those here's what I was told.

        The IYAF bylaws clearly indicate that 5th dan and above are awarded
        exclusively by honbu. All other dan rankings outside of Japan are
        awarded by individual instructors on the basis of the trust placed in
        the individual instructors by Kancho (IYAF and others that may have been
        grated that priveledge that are unaffiliated with the IYAF).

        Our filling out testing forms are NOT requests for honbu to review our
        gradings - they are requests for honbu to register the grading and send
        out the diploma - that's what makes the "covenant" - the agreement so
        powerful. Honbu does NOT have the "right" to second guess us on our
        decisions to promote.

        5th dan and above are DIFFERENT! At those ranks honbu asserted its
        priveledge to be the sole arbiter as to whether those ranks should be
        awarded.

        The way that originally functioned the person to be graded to 5th (there
        have never historically been exams for 6th and above - except for
        Enore's) either had to go to Japan or wait until a honbu instructor was
        on a visit and they could test with them personally.

        Eventually - as a consequence of many visits from honbu instructors
        becoming "private" visits the opportunity to use those visits for
        promotions began to dwindle ("private" means that a single sensei
        invited the honbu instructor and provided the entire financial payment;
        although in some instances the "resource" - the honbu instructor - was
        permitted to teach a workshop at another dojo - the itinary of the honbu
        instructor was determined by the person paying the bill - and,
        therefore, without needing to consider the circumstances of other
        instructors or dojos).

        As several people were approaching that rank - and no IYAF visits were
        being contemplated - several people looked for alternatives.

        Several people - Herman Hurst, Sue Jeanette and Alvin McClure - looked
        to Amos Parker for assistance. My spouse, Evelyn and I looked to Morita
        Sensei.

        Neither Parker Sensei nor Morita Sensei were given the authority to
        "grade" 5th dans. They both were approved to submit a referral that
        honbu would review and make a determination from. They were permitted
        only to serve as proxies for honbu - not approve the grade the way we
        all can at our grading level. There was no real "change" to the rules -
        just a willingess to be more flexible.

        Perhaps Kimeda Sensei has been granted a special autonomous grading
        authority for ranks above 4th. - I don't know that is the case, however.
        It is entirely possible that he simply submitted a recommendation that
        honbu took into consideration,

        Amos Parker Sensei's recommendation for 5th dans were all approved -
        when he took the same approach with Gilbert James and Fred Haynes - he
        submitted a recommendation for them to be promoted to 6th dan - his two
        recommendations were not approved. Honbu provided some explanation -
        though I am unfamiliar with its exact wording - to fred and to Gilbert.

        > > I may be mistaken in this, but I was under the impression that the
        > > rule where only honbu instructors could grade from 5th DAN up comes into
        > > effect (if it does at all) in or after March of this year. At least that
        > > was the impression I had from the meeting I was at in Halton Hills. The

        This IS an error, Enore, though easy enough to understand - the
        suggestion that grading changes would occur in february or march was in
        reference to the changes that Inoue suggested regarding the positioning
        of IYAF grading responsibilities on the same level with those of
        instructors in Japan.

        Right now there is a very difficult testing process that Japanese
        instructors must pass if they are to become certified. There are three
        tests - one practical, one a "takehome" written - and the third a
        written done under the scrutiny of the test official.

        We in the IYAF have no such process.

        One of my friends that is japanese just went through his 5th dan rank
        promotion and certificate upgrade process. The Japanese must score 80%
        or better on all three tests they have to take before they get the level
        of testing authority that we receive automatically.

        Inoue Sensei was apparently suggesting that he would be more comfortable
        with the IYAF grading authority being in line with the level of grading
        authority that japanese teachers get if they don't score better than 80%
        (which few do on their first attempt).

        To my knowledge NO teacher outside of honbu has made an independant
        grading of anyone to 5th dan or higher. The grading committee that
        everyone has been so negative about was to be a step above the practice
        of proxy that the honbu had started to help us all out(- it certainly
        didn't make their lives any easier).

        The grading committee would have had the authority - at least as I
        understand it - to award the 5th dan (and prossibly, eventually, 6th dan
        since both Kimeda Sensei and Parker Sensei are 8th dans).

        It would have simply been a third alternative to the already existing
        processes.

        Chris Howey

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      • enore's mail
        Hi Chris! Some text below. ... Kimeda sensei tested us, 2 5th DAN and one 6th DAN plus other lower degrees, and then submitted the results to the rest of the
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 1, 1999
          Hi Chris! Some text below.

          >Since we're all sharing our ignorance here --
          >
          >The subject of various seniors having grading 'authority" has come up
          >several times concerning the issue of 5th dans and higher.
          >
          >Having recently been one of those here's what I was told.
          >
          >The IYAF bylaws clearly indicate that 5th dan and above are awarded
          >exclusively by honbu. All other dan rankings outside of Japan are
          >awarded by individual instructors on the basis of the trust placed in
          >the individual instructors by Kancho (IYAF and others that may have been
          >grated that priveledge that are unaffiliated with the IYAF).
          >
          >Our filling out testing forms are NOT requests for honbu to review our
          >gradings - they are requests for honbu to register the grading and send
          >out the diploma - that's what makes the "covenant" - the agreement so
          >powerful. Honbu does NOT have the "right" to second guess us on our
          >decisions to promote.
          >
          >5th dan and above are DIFFERENT! At those ranks honbu asserted its
          >priveledge to be the sole arbiter as to whether those ranks should be
          >awarded.
          >
          >The way that originally functioned the person to be graded to 5th (there
          >have never historically been exams for 6th and above - except for
          >Enore's) either had to go to Japan or wait until a honbu instructor was
          >on a visit and they could test with them personally.
          >
          >Eventually - as a consequence of many visits from honbu instructors
          >becoming "private" visits the opportunity to use those visits for
          >promotions began to dwindle ("private" means that a single sensei
          >invited the honbu instructor and provided the entire financial payment;
          >although in some instances the "resource" - the honbu instructor - was
          >permitted to teach a workshop at another dojo - the itinary of the honbu
          >instructor was determined by the person paying the bill - and,
          >therefore, without needing to consider the circumstances of other
          >instructors or dojos).
          >
          >As several people were approaching that rank - and no IYAF visits were
          >being contemplated - several people looked for alternatives.
          >
          >Several people - Herman Hurst, Sue Jeanette and Alvin McClure - looked
          >to Amos Parker for assistance. My spouse, Evelyn and I looked to Morita
          >Sensei.
          >
          >Neither Parker Sensei nor Morita Sensei were given the authority to
          >"grade" 5th dans. They both were approved to submit a referral that
          >honbu would review and make a determination from. They were permitted
          >only to serve as proxies for honbu - not approve the grade the way we
          >all can at our grading level. There was no real "change" to the rules -
          >just a willingess to be more flexible.
          >
          >Perhaps Kimeda Sensei has been granted a special autonomous grading
          >authority for ranks above 4th. - I don't know that is the case, however.
          >It is entirely possible that he simply submitted a recommendation that
          >honbu took into consideration,

          Kimeda sensei tested us, 2 5th DAN and one 6th DAN plus other lower
          degrees, and then submitted the results to the rest of the grading panel.
          The panel signed, or not, and then the results were sent to the honbu,
          where they still are. The present atmosphere makes it very difficult for
          honbu to decide quickly.

          By the way Chris, do you still remember the tests that we had to go
          through with Kushida sensei? The tests we went through were basically the
          same (less weapons). Essay, knowledge questions, questions on basics,
          teaching a funny technique using the basics, continuations, weapons,
          previous techniques, free style. It wasn't much fun until after. I hope I
          don't have to go through that again. I am getting a bit old to repeat this.

          Regards! *** Enore ***
          >
          >Amos Parker Sensei's recommendation for 5th dans were all approved -
          >when he took the same approach with Gilbert James and Fred Haynes - he
          >submitted a recommendation for them to be promoted to 6th dan - his two
          >recommendations were not approved. Honbu provided some explanation -
          >though I am unfamiliar with its exact wording - to fred and to Gilbert.
          >
          >> > I may be mistaken in this, but I was under the impression that the
          >> > rule where only honbu instructors could grade from 5th DAN up comes into
          >> > effect (if it does at all) in or after March of this year. At least that
          >> > was the impression I had from the meeting I was at in Halton Hills. The
          >
          >This IS an error, Enore, though easy enough to understand - the
          >suggestion that grading changes would occur in february or march was in
          >reference to the changes that Inoue suggested regarding the positioning
          >of IYAF grading responsibilities on the same level with those of
          >instructors in Japan.
          >
          >Right now there is a very difficult testing process that Japanese
          >instructors must pass if they are to become certified. There are three
          >tests - one practical, one a "takehome" written - and the third a
          >written done under the scrutiny of the test official.
          >
          >We in the IYAF have no such process.
          >
          >One of my friends that is japanese just went through his 5th dan rank
          >promotion and certificate upgrade process. The Japanese must score 80%
          >or better on all three tests they have to take before they get the level
          >of testing authority that we receive automatically.
          >
          >Inoue Sensei was apparently suggesting that he would be more comfortable
          >with the IYAF grading authority being in line with the level of grading
          >authority that japanese teachers get if they don't score better than 80%
          >(which few do on their first attempt).
          >
          >To my knowledge NO teacher outside of honbu has made an independant
          >grading of anyone to 5th dan or higher. The grading committee that
          >everyone has been so negative about was to be a step above the practice
          >of proxy that the honbu had started to help us all out(- it certainly
          >didn't make their lives any easier).
          >
          >The grading committee would have had the authority - at least as I
          >understand it - to award the 5th dan (and prossibly, eventually, 6th dan
          >since both Kimeda Sensei and Parker Sensei are 8th dans).
          >
          >It would have simply been a third alternative to the already existing
          >processes.
          >
          >Chris Howey

          Thanks Chris! This is somewhat my understanding of the process. ***
          Enore ***
          >
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