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Re: Digest Number 927

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  • theloneaiki
    Brian I ve just got to know who your sensei is!? You say he models his aikido after Chida sensei, and that in class he shows everyone how Mustard sensei does a
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 2, 2004
      Brian I've just got to know who your sensei is!?

      You say he models his aikido after Chida sensei, and that in class he
      shows everyone how Mustard sensei does a technique and then shows you
      how Chida sensei does a technique. I am impressed. As you may or may
      not know I have been "between dojos" for a while, but will do my
      utmost to make the changes in my life that would allow me to train
      under someone who can do both Chida sensei's Aikido and Mustards
      sensei's Aikido.

      I would like some information first though, what years did your
      sensei train with Chida sensei? Can I buy tapes with him being uke? I
      think there is a new tape out that shows many of Chida sensei's
      demonstrations, which uke is your sensei. Can I narrow down the time
      that your sensei was in Japan because I know that Mustard sensei was
      in Japan from the mid 80's to the mid 90's? Did your sensei train
      with Mustard sensei during this time or did he train with him in
      Vancouver?

      I ask these questions because as we all know aikido is a martial art
      of feeling and sensitivity especially at the higher levels. I
      understand you have watched Chida sensei on Video numerous times, and
      indeed felt that you could have done that again instead of paying for
      a clinic that did not seem to do much for you or your aikido. But I
      know that your sensei can not have reached the level where he can do
      Chida sensei's and Mustard sensei's technique just by watching them
      on video. I would very much like to know your sensei's aiki biography
      I'm sure it would be remarkable!

      I am assuming here that you must train some distance from Toronto,
      other wise your sensei would have been on the mats, with such a long
      training history with both Chida sensei and Mustard sensei, he or she
      surely would have wanted to be there.

      Would you please share your dojo address, times, and fee's, along
      with the above requested information - I have just got to come and
      train with you guys!!

      John



      --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <akuma_ku@h...>
      wrote:
      > Ahem,
      > The "elitist bullshit" to which I was refering to was in repsonse to
      > Mr. Ross' suggestion that I was somehow beneath the teaching of the
      > people at the seminar. And the money is not the point as I said,
      I'm
      > justr saying that I can use that as leverage to anyone who wants to
      > suggest I don't have the right to demand better instruction.
      >
      > Chida has no intention of us learning a great deal by just watching
      > him, if he had he wouldn't wear hakama, they block the motion of his
      > legs and hips. Even Robert Mustard couldn't grasp some of the
      > excersises that Chida was trying to teach and nobody in my dojo got
      it
      > until Chida came over and helped them or moved them.
      >
      > My Sensei models his aikido after Chida's so I on a regular basis,
      for
      > example, will watch my sensei say "This is how we do Sankajo ni" and
      > he'll turn uke with arms outstreched and parallel much like in
      > shumatsu dosa, then he'll say "...and this is how Robert Mustard
      does
      > it." then he'll brush uke's fingers of the hand locked in sankajo to
      > move uke, then he'll say "...and this is how Chida does it." and
      he'll
      > move uke with the opposite hand palm down to emphasize putting the
      > momentum in from the hip. ta friggin da. I see that shit all the
      > time, and surprise surprise he did Sankajo ni at the seminar. I
      came
      > to get a better understanding of how to move like Chida, from
      Chida.
      > Not to watch more of Chida move like Chida that I've seen a thousand
      > times on video or copied by my sensei. All the while I continue to
      > make the mistakes I always have when trying to emulate him.
      >
      > Moreover, if you want me to watch to learn, how am I supposed to do
      > that when I did stop to watch Nic Mills correcting another students
      he
      > said "Don't watch me, just train." So now I have to learn form
      these
      > guys by osmosis, because I'm apparently not even supposed to watch
      > them, so I'll just have to stand with my back turned to them and
      hope
      > aikido will somehow soak into me.
      >
      > -Brian
    • Chris Young
      Poor form John, poor form. Chris ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 4, 2004
        Poor form John, poor form.

        Chris

        theloneaiki wrote:

        >Brian I've just got to know who your sensei is!?
        >
        >You say he models his aikido after Chida sensei, and that in class he
        >shows everyone how Mustard sensei does a technique and then shows you
        >how Chida sensei does a technique. I am impressed. As you may or may
        >not know I have been "between dojos" for a while, but will do my
        >utmost to make the changes in my life that would allow me to train
        >under someone who can do both Chida sensei's Aikido and Mustards
        >sensei's Aikido.
        >
        >I would like some information first though, what years did your
        >sensei train with Chida sensei? Can I buy tapes with him being uke? I
        >think there is a new tape out that shows many of Chida sensei's
        >demonstrations, which uke is your sensei. Can I narrow down the time
        >that your sensei was in Japan because I know that Mustard sensei was
        >in Japan from the mid 80's to the mid 90's? Did your sensei train
        >with Mustard sensei during this time or did he train with him in
        >Vancouver?
        >
        >I ask these questions because as we all know aikido is a martial art
        >of feeling and sensitivity especially at the higher levels. I
        >understand you have watched Chida sensei on Video numerous times, and
        >indeed felt that you could have done that again instead of paying for
        >a clinic that did not seem to do much for you or your aikido. But I
        >know that your sensei can not have reached the level where he can do
        >Chida sensei's and Mustard sensei's technique just by watching them
        >on video. I would very much like to know your sensei's aiki biography
        >I'm sure it would be remarkable!
        >
        >I am assuming here that you must train some distance from Toronto,
        >other wise your sensei would have been on the mats, with such a long
        >training history with both Chida sensei and Mustard sensei, he or she
        >surely would have wanted to be there.
        >
        >Would you please share your dojo address, times, and fee's, along
        >with the above requested information - I have just got to come and
        >train with you guys!!
        >
        >John
        >
        >
        >
        >--- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <akuma_ku@h...>
        >wrote:
        >
        >
        >>Ahem,
        >>The "elitist bullshit" to which I was refering to was in repsonse to
        >>Mr. Ross' suggestion that I was somehow beneath the teaching of the
        >>people at the seminar. And the money is not the point as I said,
        >>
        >>
        >I'm
        >
        >
        >>justr saying that I can use that as leverage to anyone who wants to
        >>suggest I don't have the right to demand better instruction.
        >>
        >>Chida has no intention of us learning a great deal by just watching
        >>him, if he had he wouldn't wear hakama, they block the motion of his
        >>legs and hips. Even Robert Mustard couldn't grasp some of the
        >>excersises that Chida was trying to teach and nobody in my dojo got
        >>
        >>
        >it
        >
        >
        >>until Chida came over and helped them or moved them.
        >>
        >>My Sensei models his aikido after Chida's so I on a regular basis,
        >>
        >>
        >for
        >
        >
        >>example, will watch my sensei say "This is how we do Sankajo ni" and
        >>he'll turn uke with arms outstreched and parallel much like in
        >>shumatsu dosa, then he'll say "...and this is how Robert Mustard
        >>
        >>
        >does
        >
        >
        >>it." then he'll brush uke's fingers of the hand locked in sankajo to
        >>move uke, then he'll say "...and this is how Chida does it." and
        >>
        >>
        >he'll
        >
        >
        >>move uke with the opposite hand palm down to emphasize putting the
        >>momentum in from the hip. ta friggin da. I see that shit all the
        >>time, and surprise surprise he did Sankajo ni at the seminar. I
        >>
        >>
        >came
        >
        >
        >>to get a better understanding of how to move like Chida, from
        >>
        >>
        >Chida.
        >
        >
        >>Not to watch more of Chida move like Chida that I've seen a thousand
        >>times on video or copied by my sensei. All the while I continue to
        >>make the mistakes I always have when trying to emulate him.
        >>
        >>Moreover, if you want me to watch to learn, how am I supposed to do
        >>that when I did stop to watch Nic Mills correcting another students
        >>
        >>
        >he
        >
        >
        >>said "Don't watch me, just train." So now I have to learn form
        >>
        >>
        >these
        >
        >
        >>guys by osmosis, because I'm apparently not even supposed to watch
        >>them, so I'll just have to stand with my back turned to them and
        >>
        >>
        >hope
        >
        >
        >>aikido will somehow soak into me.
        >>
        >>-Brian
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chris Young
        Sorry Mike, I should have trimmed that last one. Oops
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 4, 2004
          Sorry Mike,

          I should have trimmed that last one. Oops

          >
          >
        • Alan Shumak - A.S.K. Webs Canada
          Poor Form? Not if as tongue in cheek as I would put it! However...I have been to clinics with Chida, Mustard, And Ando Sensei s. Most have visited our dojo
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 4, 2004
            Poor Form? Not if as tongue in cheek as I would put it!

            However...I have been to clinics with Chida, Mustard, And Ando Sensei's.
            Most have visited our dojo privately when at outside clinics. Mustard for
            many years popped in to visit unannounced to us students and would take a
            class....

            So I do tell my students about the differences and similarities at
            times...Some of the best classes have been when limited numbers have known
            someone was around and very specialized time was spent...

            Fee's, address and class times are available at the website!
            ;-)


            Alan
            ________________________________________________________

            Alan Shumak - Toronto Aikido Centre _S\o_
            dojo@...
            http://www.torontoaikido.com
            ________________________________________________________




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Chris Young" <christophery@...>
            To: <yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:01 AM
            Subject: Re: [Yoshinkan] Re: Digest Number 927


            > Poor form John, poor form.
            >
            > Chris
            >
            > theloneaiki wrote:
            >
            > >Brian I've just got to know who your sensei is!?
            > >
            > >You say he models his aikido after Chida sensei, and that in class he
            > >shows everyone how Mustard sensei does a technique and then shows you
            > >how Chida sensei does a technique. I am impressed. As you may or may
            > >not know I have been "between dojos" for a while, but will do my
            > >utmost to make the changes in my life that would allow me to train
            > >under someone who can do both Chida sensei's Aikido and Mustards
            > >sensei's Aikido.
            > >
            > >I would like some information first though, what years did your
            > >sensei train with Chida sensei? Can I buy tapes with him being uke? I
            > >think there is a new tape out that shows many of Chida sensei's
            > >demonstrations, which uke is your sensei. Can I narrow down the time
            > >that your sensei was in Japan because I know that Mustard sensei was
            > >in Japan from the mid 80's to the mid 90's? Did your sensei train
            > >with Mustard sensei during this time or did he train with him in
            > >Vancouver?
            > >
            > >I ask these questions because as we all know aikido is a martial art
            > >of feeling and sensitivity especially at the higher levels. I
            > >understand you have watched Chida sensei on Video numerous times, and
            > >indeed felt that you could have done that again instead of paying for
            > >a clinic that did not seem to do much for you or your aikido. But I
            > >know that your sensei can not have reached the level where he can do
            > >Chida sensei's and Mustard sensei's technique just by watching them
            > >on video. I would very much like to know your sensei's aiki biography
            > >I'm sure it would be remarkable!
            > >
            > >I am assuming here that you must train some distance from Toronto,
            > >other wise your sensei would have been on the mats, with such a long
            > >training history with both Chida sensei and Mustard sensei, he or she
            > >surely would have wanted to be there.
            > >
            > >Would you please share your dojo address, times, and fee's, along
            > >with the above requested information - I have just got to come and
            > >train with you guys!!
            > >
            > >John
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >--- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <akuma_ku@h...>
            > >wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >>Ahem,
            > >>The "elitist bullshit" to which I was refering to was in repsonse to
            > >>Mr. Ross' suggestion that I was somehow beneath the teaching of the
            > >>people at the seminar. And the money is not the point as I said,
            > >>
            > >>
            > >I'm
            > >
            > >
            > >>justr saying that I can use that as leverage to anyone who wants to
            > >>suggest I don't have the right to demand better instruction.
            > >>
            > >>Chida has no intention of us learning a great deal by just watching
            > >>him, if he had he wouldn't wear hakama, they block the motion of his
            > >>legs and hips. Even Robert Mustard couldn't grasp some of the
            > >>excersises that Chida was trying to teach and nobody in my dojo got
            > >>
            > >>
            > >it
            > >
            > >
            > >>until Chida came over and helped them or moved them.
            > >>
            > >>My Sensei models his aikido after Chida's so I on a regular basis,
            > >>
            > >>
            > >for
            > >
            > >
            > >>example, will watch my sensei say "This is how we do Sankajo ni" and
            > >>he'll turn uke with arms outstreched and parallel much like in
            > >>shumatsu dosa, then he'll say "...and this is how Robert Mustard
            > >>
            > >>
            > >does
            > >
            > >
            > >>it." then he'll brush uke's fingers of the hand locked in sankajo to
            > >>move uke, then he'll say "...and this is how Chida does it." and
            > >>
            > >>
            > >he'll
            > >
            > >
            > >>move uke with the opposite hand palm down to emphasize putting the
            > >>momentum in from the hip. ta friggin da. I see that shit all the
            > >>time, and surprise surprise he did Sankajo ni at the seminar. I
            > >>
            > >>
            > >came
            > >
            > >
            > >>to get a better understanding of how to move like Chida, from
            > >>
            > >>
            > >Chida.
            > >
            > >
            > >>Not to watch more of Chida move like Chida that I've seen a thousand
            > >>times on video or copied by my sensei. All the while I continue to
            > >>make the mistakes I always have when trying to emulate him.
            > >>
            > >>Moreover, if you want me to watch to learn, how am I supposed to do
            > >>that when I did stop to watch Nic Mills correcting another students
            > >>
            > >>
            > >he
            > >
            > >
            > >>said "Don't watch me, just train." So now I have to learn form
            > >>
            > >>
            > >these
            > >
            > >
            > >>guys by osmosis, because I'm apparently not even supposed to watch
            > >>them, so I'll just have to stand with my back turned to them and
            > >>
            > >>
            > >hope
            > >
            > >
            > >>aikido will somehow soak into me.
            > >>
            > >>-Brian
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Chris Young
            To be clear Alan, I read Johns post as a challenge to Brian s sensei. That is what I considered to be poor form. Not the idea that one sensei may
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 4, 2004
              To be clear Alan, I read Johns post as a "challenge" to Brian's sensei.
              That is what I considered to be poor form. Not the idea that one sensei
              may demonstrate the different styles of other sensei's. I guess I
              should have been a bit more clear.

              Alan Shumak - A.S.K. Webs Canada wrote:

              >Poor Form? Not if as tongue in cheek as I would put it!
              >
              >However...I have been to clinics with Chida, Mustard, And Ando Sensei's.
              >Most have visited our dojo privately when at outside clinics. Mustard for
              >many years popped in to visit unannounced to us students and would take a
              >class....
              >
              >So I do tell my students about the differences and similarities at
              >times...Some of the best classes have been when limited numbers have known
              >someone was around and very specialized time was spent...
              >
              >Fee's, address and class times are available at the website!
              >;-)
              >
              >
              >Alan
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • m mkimeda
              Well, I don t think you have to necessarily take it as a challenge to Brian s Sensei. Brian is the one saying things about his Sensei that in an email can be
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 5, 2004
                Well, I don't think you have to necessarily take it as
                a challenge to Brian's Sensei.

                Brian is the one saying things about his Sensei that
                in an email can be made to seem a bit silly. I took it
                to be a challenge to John to understand that his
                instructor's mimicing Chida Sensei technique is quite
                a bit different than watching Chida do it himself ...
                and if one is lucky enough to feel Chida doing it
                himself.

                Spike

                --- Chris Young <christophery@...> wrote:

                > To be clear Alan, I read Johns post as a "challenge"
                > to Brian's sensei.
                > That is what I considered to be poor form. Not the
                > idea that one sensei
                > may demonstrate the different styles of other
                > sensei's. I guess I
                > should have been a bit more clear.
                >
                > Alan Shumak - A.S.K. Webs Canada wrote:
                >
                > >Poor Form? Not if as tongue in cheek as I would put
                > it!





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              • Brian Downey
                http://home.cogeco.ca/~jinbukan/Index.htm See you Thutsday
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 9, 2004
                  http://home.cogeco.ca/~jinbukan/Index.htm

                  See you Thutsday

                  --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "theloneaiki" <TheLoneAiki@h...> wrote:
                  > Brian I've just got to know who your sensei is!?
                  >
                  > You say he models his aikido after Chida sensei, and that in class he
                  > shows everyone how Mustard sensei does a technique and then shows you
                  > how Chida sensei does a technique. I am impressed. As you may or may
                  > not know I have been "between dojos" for a while, but will do my
                  > utmost to make the changes in my life that would allow me to train
                  > under someone who can do both Chida sensei's Aikido and Mustards
                  > sensei's Aikido.
                  >
                  > I would like some information first though, what years did your
                  > sensei train with Chida sensei? Can I buy tapes with him being uke? I
                  > think there is a new tape out that shows many of Chida sensei's
                  > demonstrations, which uke is your sensei. Can I narrow down the time
                  > that your sensei was in Japan because I know that Mustard sensei was
                  > in Japan from the mid 80's to the mid 90's? Did your sensei train
                  > with Mustard sensei during this time or did he train with him in
                  > Vancouver?
                  >
                  > I ask these questions because as we all know aikido is a martial art
                  > of feeling and sensitivity especially at the higher levels. I
                  > understand you have watched Chida sensei on Video numerous times, and
                  > indeed felt that you could have done that again instead of paying for
                  > a clinic that did not seem to do much for you or your aikido. But I
                  > know that your sensei can not have reached the level where he can do
                  > Chida sensei's and Mustard sensei's technique just by watching them
                  > on video. I would very much like to know your sensei's aiki biography
                  > I'm sure it would be remarkable!
                  >
                  > I am assuming here that you must train some distance from Toronto,
                  > other wise your sensei would have been on the mats, with such a long
                  > training history with both Chida sensei and Mustard sensei, he or she
                  > surely would have wanted to be there.
                  >
                  > Would you please share your dojo address, times, and fee's, along
                  > with the above requested information - I have just got to come and
                  > train with you guys!!
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <akuma_ku@h...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Ahem,
                  > > The "elitist bullshit" to which I was refering to was in repsonse to
                  > > Mr. Ross' suggestion that I was somehow beneath the teaching of the
                  > > people at the seminar. And the money is not the point as I said,
                  > I'm
                  > > justr saying that I can use that as leverage to anyone who wants to
                  > > suggest I don't have the right to demand better instruction.
                  > >
                  > > Chida has no intention of us learning a great deal by just watching
                  > > him, if he had he wouldn't wear hakama, they block the motion of his
                  > > legs and hips. Even Robert Mustard couldn't grasp some of the
                  > > excersises that Chida was trying to teach and nobody in my dojo got
                  > it
                  > > until Chida came over and helped them or moved them.
                  > >
                  > > My Sensei models his aikido after Chida's so I on a regular basis,
                  > for
                  > > example, will watch my sensei say "This is how we do Sankajo ni" and
                  > > he'll turn uke with arms outstreched and parallel much like in
                  > > shumatsu dosa, then he'll say "...and this is how Robert Mustard
                  > does
                  > > it." then he'll brush uke's fingers of the hand locked in sankajo to
                  > > move uke, then he'll say "...and this is how Chida does it." and
                  > he'll
                  > > move uke with the opposite hand palm down to emphasize putting the
                  > > momentum in from the hip. ta friggin da. I see that shit all the
                  > > time, and surprise surprise he did Sankajo ni at the seminar. I
                  > came
                  > > to get a better understanding of how to move like Chida, from
                  > Chida.
                  > > Not to watch more of Chida move like Chida that I've seen a thousand
                  > > times on video or copied by my sensei. All the while I continue to
                  > > make the mistakes I always have when trying to emulate him.
                  > >
                  > > Moreover, if you want me to watch to learn, how am I supposed to do
                  > > that when I did stop to watch Nic Mills correcting another students
                  > he
                  > > said "Don't watch me, just train." So now I have to learn form
                  > these
                  > > guys by osmosis, because I'm apparently not even supposed to watch
                  > > them, so I'll just have to stand with my back turned to them and
                  > hope
                  > > aikido will somehow soak into me.
                  > >
                  > > -Brian
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