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Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?

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  • Peggy Woo and Darren Friend
    I d like to hear how aikido training has helped people in dealing with violent physical confrontations 1. By physically moving to avoid being hit i.e.
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 1, 2004
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      I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people in
      dealing with violent physical confrontations

      1. By physically moving to avoid being hit i.e. taisabaki
      2. by breaking uke's balance to control and subdue
      3. by extension subduing potential aggresion through voice, face and posture
      i.e. kiai, metsuke and kamae

      Darren

      -------Original Message-------

      From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, January 30, 2004 10:46:26 AM
      To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?

      Hi Steven,

      Good point. By "self-defense" I mean defending oneself
      physically against someone else's aggression.

      I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people in
      dealing with violent physical confrontations.



      --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <aysdojo@y...>
      wrote:
      > What is your definition of self-defense? That can mean
      > many things to different people. Self-defense does not
      > always equate to physically defense. Are you interested
      > only in knowing who has used physical defense, or self-
      > defense in every sense of the term.
      >
      > ~Steven
      >
      >
      > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "oamirza" <oamirza@y...> wrote:
      > > A question for the group:
      > >
      > > Have you ever used aikido in self-defense? If so, could you
      > describe
      > > the encounter briefly?
      > >
      > > Did you end up using specific techniques from the aikido
      syllabus,
      > > or did your training help in some other way?
      > >
      > > Thanks in advance.




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      .

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    • Kevin Bradley
      Darren: I actually had a very cool thing happen with a student in the kids class a while ago. This boy s mom had signed him up because he was being picked on
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 2, 2004
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        Darren:

        I actually had a very cool thing happen with a student in the kids class a
        while ago. This boy's mom had signed him up because he was being picked on
        by a bully, but she didn't want to enroll him in a karate class because she
        was afraid he may misuse the skills he learned there. After a few classes
        and learning kihon dosa, I could see this young person's confidence
        building. One day his mom was beaming when they came to class. She told me
        that the bully had tried to push her son over and had charged him, hands
        extended, with the intention of smacking him in the chest. My student
        simply executed tai no henko ni, "assisted" the bully with a little tap to
        the back of the head as he passed, resulting in the bully plowing face first
        into a chain link fence. No punches thrown, no tussle, just avoidance. The
        bully cried as he was taken to the nurse's office to have his bloody nose
        mended and afterward kept trying to befriend my student. Sometimes the best
        technique is just not being there.

        Kevin Bradley
        Meishinkan Dojo



        >From: "Peggy Woo and Darren Friend" <panda@...>
        >Reply-To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?
        >Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 05:56:49 +0900
        >
        > I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people in
        >dealing with violent physical confrontations
        >
        >1. By physically moving to avoid being hit i.e. taisabaki
        >2. by breaking uke's balance to control and subdue
        >3. by extension subduing potential aggresion through voice, face and
        >posture
        >i.e. kiai, metsuke and kamae
        >
        >Darren
        >
        >-------Original Message-------
        >
        >From: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
        >Date: Friday, January 30, 2004 10:46:26 AM
        >To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?
        >
        >Hi Steven,
        >
        > Good point. By "self-defense" I mean defending oneself
        >physically against someone else's aggression.
        >
        > I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people in
        >dealing with violent physical confrontations.
        >
        >
        >
        >--- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <aysdojo@y...>
        >wrote:
        > > What is your definition of self-defense? That can mean
        > > many things to different people. Self-defense does not
        > > always equate to physically defense. Are you interested
        > > only in knowing who has used physical defense, or self-
        > > defense in every sense of the term.
        > >
        > > ~Steven
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "oamirza" <oamirza@y...> wrote:
        > > > A question for the group:
        > > >
        > > > Have you ever used aikido in self-defense? If so, could you
        > > describe
        > > > the encounter briefly?
        > > >
        > > > Did you end up using specific techniques from the aikido
        >syllabus,
        > > > or did your training help in some other way?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks in advance.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >.
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

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      • robert bilek
        i had a situation at work where a supervisor was verbally attacking me (this is horrible, you are the worst salesman to call on me, etc.). i couldn t use any
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 6, 2004
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          i had a situation at work where a supervisor was verbally attacking me (this is horrible, you are the worst salesman to call on me, etc.). i couldn't use any kind of physical response because he hadn't done so to me yet, but you could feel the attacks just like a strong atemi straight thru my chest. so i pivoted 95 - 180 degrees several times durring the verbal assault, and he had to keep re-engaging to yell thru me. i could see in his face that something was confusing him. after a three or four times, he got frustrated and left me alone.

          it was strange just how vunerable i was when he attacked me directly, but once i was off the center line, the words passed by and didn't hurt so bad. i had a chance to pause and respond to his points, and it took a lot of pressure off me when the yelling wasn't coming on full stregth.

          one of my instructors taught me that if you are not sure if someone is attacking you, pivot off line, and if they re-engage, you know they are out for a fight. when you know their intentions, you can move forward.



          Hi Steven,

          Good point. By "self-defense" I mean defending oneself
          physically against someone else's aggression.

          I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people in
          dealing with violent physical confrontations.



          --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <aysdojo@y...>
          wrote:
          > What is your definition of self-defense? That can mean
          > many things to different people. Self-defense does not
          > always equate to physically defense. Are you interested
          > only in knowing who has used physical defense, or self-
          > defense in every sense of the term.
          >
          > ~Steven
          >
          >
          > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "oamirza" <oamirza@y...> wrote:
          > > A question for the group:
          > >
          > > Have you ever used aikido in self-defense? If so, could you
          > describe
          > > the encounter briefly?
          > >
          > > Did you end up using specific techniques from the aikido
          syllabus,
          > > or did your training help in some other way?
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance.


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • oamirza
          ... wrote: ... This is very interesting. Thank you for bringing this up. In the U.S.A., people seem to think that unless someone has already launched a
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 7, 2004
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            --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, robert bilek <indyroberto@s...>
            wrote:

            <snip>

            > one of my instructors taught me that if you are not sure if
            > someone is attacking you, pivot off line, and if they re-engage,
            > you know they are out for a fight. when you know their
            > intentions, you can move forward.

            This is very interesting. Thank you for bringing this up.

            In the U.S.A., people seem to think that unless someone
            has already launched a determined attack against you, you have no
            business doing anything to that person physically. But as far as I
            am concerned, if someone has demonstrated his intention of being
            physically aggressive, you are entitled to take action, even if you
            are striking the first blow.

            I don't know how this would stand up in a law court.
          • robert bilek
            i think there was a question about how to get blood out of your gi. i used to work in a medical laboratory, and found that hydrogen peroxide will completely
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 7, 2004
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              i think there was a question about how to get blood out of your gi. i used to work in a medical laboratory, and found that hydrogen peroxide will completely erase blood from fabric, just like those "oxyclean" comercials.
              hope this helps, and be more carefull next time.


              oamirza <oamirza@...> wrote:
              --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, robert bilek <indyroberto@s...>
              wrote:

              <snip>

              > one of my instructors taught me that if you are not sure if
              > someone is attacking you, pivot off line, and if they re-engage,
              > you know they are out for a fight. when you know their
              > intentions, you can move forward.

              This is very interesting. Thank you for bringing this up.

              In the U.S.A., people seem to think that unless someone
              has already launched a determined attack against you, you have no
              business doing anything to that person physically. But as far as I
              am concerned, if someone has demonstrated his intention of being
              physically aggressive, you are entitled to take action, even if you
              are striking the first blow.

              I don't know how this would stand up in a law court.




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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Shumaker, Gordon
              Beautiful Aikido! ... From: robert bilek [mailto:indyroberto@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:32 PM To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 9, 2004
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                Beautiful Aikido!

                -----Original Message-----
                From: robert bilek [mailto:indyroberto@...]
                Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:32 PM
                To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Yoshinkan] Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?


                i had a situation at work where a supervisor was verbally attacking me (this
                is horrible, you are the worst salesman to call on me, etc.). i couldn't
                use any kind of physical response because he hadn't done so to me yet, but
                you could feel the attacks just like a strong atemi straight thru my chest.
                so i pivoted 95 - 180 degrees several times durring the verbal assault, and
                he had to keep re-engaging to yell thru me. i could see in his face that
                something was confusing him. after a three or four times, he got frustrated
                and left me alone.

                it was strange just how vunerable i was when he attacked me directly, but
                once i was off the center line, the words passed by and didn't hurt so bad.
                i had a chance to pause and respond to his points, and it took a lot of
                pressure off me when the yelling wasn't coming on full stregth.

                one of my instructors taught me that if you are not sure if someone is
                attacking you, pivot off line, and if they re-engage, you know they are out
                for a fight. when you know their intentions, you can move forward.



                Hi Steven,

                Good point. By "self-defense" I mean defending oneself
                physically against someone else's aggression.

                I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people in
                dealing with violent physical confrontations.



                --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <aysdojo@y...>
                wrote:
                > What is your definition of self-defense? That can mean
                > many things to different people. Self-defense does not
                > always equate to physically defense. Are you interested
                > only in knowing who has used physical defense, or self-
                > defense in every sense of the term.
                >
                > ~Steven
                >
                >
                > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "oamirza" <oamirza@y...> wrote:
                > > A question for the group:
                > >
                > > Have you ever used aikido in self-defense? If so, could you
                > describe
                > > the encounter briefly?
                > >
                > > Did you end up using specific techniques from the aikido
                syllabus,
                > > or did your training help in some other way?
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance.


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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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              • Shumaker, Gordon
                The legal privilege of self-defense in the USA does not require that you get punched or kicked before you can defend yourself physically. By the same token,
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 9, 2004
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                  The legal privilege of self-defense in the USA does not require that you get
                  punched or kicked before you can defend yourself physically.

                  By the same token, just "reading" an intention or just being verbally
                  threatened without ANY physical movement or gesture that reasonably would
                  signal a forthcoming assault will not entitle you to strike the first blow.

                  So, in the USA, you are in the middle ground. The attacker has begun to DO
                  (not just SAY) something that a reasonable person would interpret as
                  assaultive conduct, then you can defend yourself physically.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: oamirza [mailto:oamirza@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 12:10 PM
                  To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Yoshinkan] Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?


                  --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, robert bilek <indyroberto@s...>
                  wrote:

                  <snip>

                  > one of my instructors taught me that if you are not sure if
                  > someone is attacking you, pivot off line, and if they re-engage,
                  > you know they are out for a fight. when you know their
                  > intentions, you can move forward.

                  This is very interesting. Thank you for bringing this up.

                  In the U.S.A., people seem to think that unless someone
                  has already launched a determined attack against you, you have no
                  business doing anything to that person physically. But as far as I
                  am concerned, if someone has demonstrated his intention of being
                  physically aggressive, you are entitled to take action, even if you
                  are striking the first blow.

                  I don't know how this would stand up in a law court.





                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • ken
                  hi sorry to hear you have a supervisor in you face yelling at you .. the first thing i would do is see if there is someone over him or her and report them . i
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 9, 2004
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                    hi
                    sorry to hear you have a supervisor in you face yelling at you ..
                    the first thing i would do is see if there is someone over him or
                    her and report them . i dont know what kind of work your in but
                    you do have rightes to go over there head .and next time they wont
                    to chew you out you can ask them to take it to a privet room to
                    do that not in front of everyone .. if the supervisor was any good
                    he/she would have done that in the first place .. now for you and
                    getting off the center line that was good i would not just stand
                    there and take it from them i have been chew out by supervisor
                    before and i keep moveing around it keep them from getting a fix
                    on you and they cant tell what your doing .in the long run it
                    will be over faster because they forget what they wont to talk to
                    you about in the long run that is

                    ken _53/sensei_55
                    shodan
                    --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Shumaker, Gordon"
                    <gordon.shumaker@c...> wrote:
                    > Beautiful Aikido!
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: robert bilek [mailto:indyroberto@s...]
                    > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:32 PM
                    > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [Yoshinkan] Re: Aikido in Self-Defense?
                    >
                    >
                    > i had a situation at work where a supervisor was verbally
                    attacking me (this
                    > is horrible, you are the worst salesman to call on me, etc.). i
                    couldn't
                    > use any kind of physical response because he hadn't done so to me
                    yet, but
                    > you could feel the attacks just like a strong atemi straight thru
                    my chest.
                    > so i pivoted 95 - 180 degrees several times durring the verbal
                    assault, and
                    > he had to keep re-engaging to yell thru me. i could see in his
                    face that
                    > something was confusing him. after a three or four times, he got
                    frustrated
                    > and left me alone.
                    >
                    > it was strange just how vunerable i was when he attacked me
                    directly, but
                    > once i was off the center line, the words passed by and didn't
                    hurt so bad.
                    > i had a chance to pause and respond to his points, and it took a
                    lot of
                    > pressure off me when the yelling wasn't coming on full stregth.
                    >
                    > one of my instructors taught me that if you are not sure if
                    someone is
                    > attacking you, pivot off line, and if they re-engage, you know
                    they are out
                    > for a fight. when you know their intentions, you can move forward.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Steven,
                    >
                    > Good point. By "self-defense" I mean defending oneself
                    > physically against someone else's aggression.
                    >
                    > I'd like to hear how aikido training has helped people
                    in
                    > dealing with violent physical confrontations.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Miranda" <aysdojo@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > What is your definition of self-defense? That can mean
                    > > many things to different people. Self-defense does not
                    > > always equate to physically defense. Are you interested
                    > > only in knowing who has used physical defense, or self-
                    > > defense in every sense of the term.
                    > >
                    > > ~Steven
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com, "oamirza" <oamirza@y...> wrote:
                    > > > A question for the group:
                    > > >
                    > > > Have you ever used aikido in self-defense? If so, could you
                    > > describe
                    > > > the encounter briefly?
                    > > >
                    > > > Did you end up using specific techniques from the aikido
                    > syllabus,
                    > > > or did your training help in some other way?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance.
                    >
                    >
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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