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Re: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert

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  • TeddieL@aol.com
    Can t resist putting my two cents in. Everyone is talking about testing, and quality control. How can these be set arbitrarily? IMHO, each individual is
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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      Can't resist putting my two cents in.

      Everyone is talking about testing, and 'quality control.' How can these be
      set arbitrarily? IMHO, each individual is responsible for their own
      training, and seeking out good instruction. That's how quality control is
      accomplished.

      Think about it. Whose seminars consistently are announced and students make
      an effort to attend? It's not every shodan whose awarded an instructor's
      certificate. It's those instructors who've proven how valuable their
      experience and instruction is over time. The shodans, nidans and sandans
      tend to go to those seminars to develop their own technical skills.

      Also, just because you know a lot of aikido, doesn't mean you can teach it.
      It takes more than a 'course' to create a good teacher. Teaching is a skill,
      and as important as technique. The skill is communication.

      So, the question is, would an instructor's test be more technical ability, or
      to demonstrate an ability to develop beginners, to be sympathetic to the
      frustrations of the early lessons in aikido, and to communicate? In my
      opinion the dan test is about technical skill. Teaching is an art unto
      itself, and students are the ones who "certify" an instructor, regardless of
      the paperwork.

      Teddie
    • Mick Chambers
      I say 7 years, but that is assuming that you have a recommended instructor who can grade you to san dan - if you don t than you can t get the cert in the first
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Message
        I say 7 years, but that is assuming that you have a recommended instructor who can grade you to san dan - if you don't
        than you can't get the cert in the first place - all jobs have a recommended amount of experience, why not Aikido?
        San dan is a minimum for getting a dojo certificate in my mind.
         
        Mick
        -----Original Message-----
        From: t.shewman@... [mailto:t.shewman@...]
        Sent: October 30, 2002 8:04 AM
        To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert

        I respectfully disagree Mick. The problem is that the quality may diminish if
        proper instruction is not there. We should avoid setting arbitrary time lines
        such as 7 years as without good instruction, you don't have good technique. One
        could simply "do their time" (and it seems evident that some have) and be
        handed their Sandan and "instructor's status". I think the concern of the trail
        of notes on this has to do more with quality than time. 7 years of instruction
        doesn't mean it will be good instruction. As one person said, "We can all die
        stupid without proper instruction." Some have been priviledged to receive it
        while others haven't. Hence the proposal for the different levels (1-4 for
        instance) to ensure a core competency of the instructors. It doesn't have to be
        in BC, as any instructor can fly to meet demand.

        I also disagree and feel that a separate certificate regarding instruction
        deserves serious consideration. Can you still teach w/o one? Of course. BUT,
        that would and perhaps should limit the level one can grade to (if at all). I'm
        not aware of any dojo that can't travel to see a qualified instructor now. We
        all take time out of our lives to train, so for one weekend per year to ensure
        our own technique is of adequate standard would seem to be a very small price
        to pay.

        Todd
             
        > good point, I am an instructor no matter what I have hanging on the
        > wall.  Aikido is about
        > self development and a natural progression is to instruct to improve.

        > I think the main argument is that some people have been taking on this
        > challenge
        > to early in there Aikido. Unfortunately we would not have the number of
        > students in Canada
        > if some people had not done this.

        > I am in favour of a change that makes only San Dan and up instructors -
        > that way you need
        > at least 7 years in Aikido, kind of what Shioda Sensei had before he
        > started.
        > That would be an official instructor with permission from the hombu to
        > open a school, however,
        > if you were in a town where there was no yoshinkan Aikido you could get
        > special permission at
        > any rank!

        > I don't think you need a separate certificate for instruction, a dojo
        > registration should be all you need.
        > if you are in a dojo and you become an instructor, your sensei is still
        > responsible for
        > the grading, so why do you need one?  Also if you open a club with
        > multiple instructors
        > there names could all be on the Dojo registration.

        > Your own dojo
        > +
        > 7 years experience
        > +
        > San Dan
        > +
        > Dojo registration
        > =
        > the ability to recommend promotion of any student in your dojo up
        > to Shodan.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: John Hicks [mailto:jhicks2002@...]
        > Sent: October 30, 2002 5:48 AM
        > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
        >
        >
        > It seems to me that dan ranking should NOT be
        > separated from instructing. Isn't Aikido about
        > wholistic development of both the individual and the
        > dojo? When a person gets to shodan, part of their
        > ongoing development necessarily should include some
        > teaching. Teaching is a powerful tool for learning. To
        > separate "instructor" from "technical dan" would be a
        > disservice to the art. Not to mention against the idea
        > of Budo.
        >
        > ~John Hicks
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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      • t.shewman@att.net
        B/C not all jobs include becoming an instructor.
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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          B/C not all jobs include becoming an instructor.


          > I say 7 years, but that is assuming that you have a recommended
          > instructor who can grade you to san dan - if you don't
          > than you can't get the cert in the first place - all jobs have a
          > recommended amount of experience, why not Aikido?
          > San dan is a minimum for getting a dojo certificate in my mind.
          >
          > Mick
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: t.shewman@... [mailto:t.shewman@...]
          > Sent: October 30, 2002 8:04 AM
          > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
          >
          >
          > I respectfully disagree Mick. The problem is that the quality may
          > diminish if
          > proper instruction is not there. We should avoid setting arbitrary time
          > lines
          > such as 7 years as without good instruction, you don't have good
          > technique. One
          > could simply "do their time" (and it seems evident that some have) and
          > be
          > handed their Sandan and "instructor's status". I think the concern of
          > the trail
          > of notes on this has to do more with quality than time. 7 years of
          > instruction
          > doesn't mean it will be good instruction. As one person said, "We can
          > all die
          > stupid without proper instruction." Some have been priviledged to
          > receive it
          > while others haven't. Hence the proposal for the different levels (1-4
          > for
          > instance) to ensure a core competency of the instructors. It doesn't
          > have to be
          > in BC, as any instructor can fly to meet demand.
          >
          > I also disagree and feel that a separate certificate regarding
          > instruction
          > deserves serious consideration. Can you still teach w/o one? Of course.
          > BUT,
          > that would and perhaps should limit the level one can grade to (if at
          > all). I'm
          > not aware of any dojo that can't travel to see a qualified instructor
          > now. We
          > all take time out of our lives to train, so for one weekend per year to
          > ensure
          > our own technique is of adequate standard would seem to be a very small
          > price
          > to pay.
          >
          > Todd
          >
          > > good point, I am an instructor no matter what I have hanging on the
          > > wall. Aikido is about
          > > self development and a natural progression is to instruct to improve.
          > >
          > > I think the main argument is that some people have been taking on this
          > > challenge
          > > to early in there Aikido. Unfortunately we would not have the number
          > of
          > > students in Canada
          > > if some people had not done this.
          > >
          > > I am in favour of a change that makes only San Dan and up instructors
          > -
          > > that way you need
          > > at least 7 years in Aikido, kind of what Shioda Sensei had before he
          > > started.
          > > That would be an official instructor with permission from the hombu to
          > > open a school, however,
          > > if you were in a town where there was no yoshinkan Aikido you could
          > get
          > > special permission at
          > > any rank!
          > >
          > > I don't think you need a separate certificate for instruction, a dojo
          > > registration should be all you need.
          > > if you are in a dojo and you become an instructor, your sensei is
          > still
          > > responsible for
          > > the grading, so why do you need one? Also if you open a club with
          > > multiple instructors
          > > there names could all be on the Dojo registration.
          > >
          > > Your own dojo
          > > +
          > > 7 years experience
          > > +
          > > San Dan
          > > +
          > > Dojo registration
          > > =
          > > the ability to recommend promotion of any student in your dojo up
          > > to Shodan.
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: John Hicks [mailto:jhicks2002@...]
          > > Sent: October 30, 2002 5:48 AM
          > > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
          > >
          > >
          > > It seems to me that dan ranking should NOT be
          > > separated from instructing. Isn't Aikido about
          > > wholistic development of both the individual and the
          > > dojo? When a person gets to shodan, part of their
          > > ongoing development necessarily should include some
          > > teaching. Teaching is a powerful tool for learning. To
          > > separate "instructor" from "technical dan" would be a
          > > disservice to the art. Not to mention against the idea
          > > of Budo.
          > >
          > > ~John Hicks
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
          > > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > >
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupweb/S=1705
          > >
          > 068802:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info?.refer=blrecs
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        • Peggy Woo and Darren Friend
          Teddie wrote It s not every shodan whose awarded an instructor s certificate. It s those instructors who ve proven how valuable their experience and
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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            >
            Teddie wrote
             
            It's not every shodan whose awarded an instructor's
            certificate. It's those instructors who've proven how valuable their
            experience and instruction is over time.
             
             
            Sorry Teddie, but for the last 8 years I have seen all the applications and can tell you that in some areas of Nth America every student who has tested for shodan has been recommended as an IYAF instructor.
             
            Darren
             
             
             
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 2002年11月1日 23:20:08
            Subject: Re: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
             
            Can't resist putting my two cents in.

            Everyone is talking about testing, and 'quality control.' How can these be
            set arbitrarily? IMHO, each individual is responsible for their own
            training, and seeking out good instruction. That's how quality control is
            accomplished.

            Think about it. Whose seminars consistently are announced and students make
            an effort to attend? It's not every shodan whose awarded an instructor's
            certificate. It's those instructors who've proven how valuable their
            experience and instruction is over time. The shodans, nidans and sandans
            tend to go to those seminars to develop their own technical skills.

            Also, just because you know a lot of aikido, doesn't mean you can teach it.
            It takes more than a 'course' to create a good teacher. Teaching is a skill,
            and as important as technique. The skill is communication.

            So, the question is, would an instructor's test be more technical ability, or
            to demonstrate an ability to develop beginners, to be sympathetic to the
            frustrations of the early lessons in aikido, and to communicate? In my
            opinion the dan test is about technical skill. Teaching is an art unto
            itself, and students are the ones who "certify" an instructor, regardless of
            the paperwork.

            Teddie

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            .
          • Mick Chambers
            I certainly believe in the proliferation of Yoshinkan Aikido - a quarter of this list I taught when I was Shodan or 1st kyu! This was necessary and I would
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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              Message
              I certainly believe in the proliferation of Yoshinkan Aikido - a quarter of this list I taught when I was Shodan or 1st kyu!  This was necessary and I would have to say
              that it was with special permission and out of necessity that I taught, however, it was not without a Dojo affiliation to back up my instruction. 
               
              What I am saying is that if you are not a San dan and you  have a choice to stay with your instructor or  teach, you need to think carefully. If you must leave because
              of conflict, moving  or personal reasons than the choice is clear, do what you have to to show anyone you can Yoshinkan Aikido.
               
              btw I have always loved Aikido but that does not mean my Aikido has always been good.  It took a long time to realize that I need to fix my aikido but
              Japan helped a lot.  Guess who in Japan?  Robert Sensei, yep all the way to Tokyo to get instruction 50% of the time from a gaijin.  That is why,
              I am endorsement some type of course here in Vancouver because if I could have had Tokyo style instruction in Canada I might have taken that
              route and so might others - Robert has the experience to show Tokyo style Aikido as well as the Yamanashi specials :-).
               
              Mick
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Todd &Wendy Fleck [mailto:tfleck@...]
              Sent: October 31, 2002 5:51 PM
              To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert

              Mick,
               
              I have been reading all these post for a standardization of Instructors Qualifications.  And I agree that there should be a standard.  But I was also under the impression that in order to get an Instructors Certificate that you had to be recommended by a senior Black Belt.  That He/She was the "standard".  That the "new" Instructor would not get a certificate unless he/she possessed the qualities that the senior black belt would look for before signing his/her name to that recommendation.
               
              As for you comment about making a change so that only San Dans and up were instructors I might remind you that you taught me my first basic movements and gave me my first yellow belt test before you were San Dan.  Do you believe you were one of the people deserving  "special permission"?  I mean no disrespect and I believe that you were a great instructor but you were no doubt given permission to teach by some one higher that you that believe that you possessed the skills to teach coherently.  I am also sure that the same person that gave you their blessings would not give that covenant blessing to someone that may be a good practitioner of the art but could not teach someone how to blow up a balloon.
               
              I may be way out of line here, but this is what I believe.
               
               
               
              Todd Fleck
              CFB Gagetowns
              Yoshinkan Aikido Club 
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:34 AM
              Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert

              good point, I am an instructor no matter what I have hanging on the wall.  Aikido is about
              self development and a natural progression is to instruct to improve.
               
              I think the main argument is that some people have been taking on this challenge
              to early in there Aikido. Unfortunately we would not have the number of students in Canada
              if some people had not done this. 
               
              I am in favour of a change that makes only San Dan and up instructors - that way you need
              at least 7 years in Aikido, kind of what Shioda Sensei had before he started.
              That would be an official instructor with permission from the hombu to open a school, however,
              if you were in a town where there was no yoshinkan Aikido you could get special permission at
              any rank!
               
              I don't think you need a separate certificate for instruction, a dojo registration should be all you need.
              if you are in a dojo and you become an instructor, your sensei is still responsible for
              the grading, so why do you need one?  Also if you open a club with multiple instructors
              there names could all be on the Dojo registration.
               
              Your own dojo
              +
              7 years experience
              +
              San Dan
              +
              Dojo registration
              =
              the ability to recommend promotion of any student in your dojo up
              to Shodan.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: John Hicks [mailto:jhicks2002@...]
              Sent: October 30, 2002 5:48 AM
              To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert

              It seems to me that dan ranking should NOT be
              separated from instructing. Isn't Aikido about
              wholistic development of both the individual and the
              dojo? When a person gets to shodan, part of their
              ongoing development necessarily should include some
              teaching. Teaching is a powerful tool for learning. To
              separate "instructor" from "technical dan" would be a
              disservice to the art. Not to mention against the idea
              of Budo.

              ~John Hicks

              __________________________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
              http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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            • Mick Chambers
              7 years is not arbitrary it is the minimum time to San dan. and should be used as a minimum to be granted a dojo certificate. It has nothing to do with skill,
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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                Message
                7 years is not arbitrary it is the minimum time to San dan.
                and should be used as a minimum to be granted a dojo certificate.  It has nothing to
                do with skill, it is just a minimum value along with other items such as
                - recommendation from instructor
                - the fact that you are indeed studying Yoshinkan Aikido
                - etc..
                btw in some form or another most jobs require that you instruct / be a leader after 7 years. but I am not sure
                what your point is.
                -----Original Message-----
                From: t.shewman@... [mailto:t.shewman@...]
                Sent: November 1, 2002 8:40 AM
                To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert

                B/C not all jobs include becoming an instructor.

                     
                > I say 7 years, but that is assuming that you have a recommended
                > instructor who can grade you to san dan - if you don't
                > than you can't get the cert in the first place - all jobs have a
                > recommended amount of experience, why not Aikido?
                > San dan is a minimum for getting a dojo certificate in my mind.

                > Mick
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: t.shewman@... [mailto:t.shewman@...]
                > Sent: October 30, 2002 8:04 AM
                > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
                >
                >
                > I respectfully disagree Mick. The problem is that the quality may
                > diminish if
                > proper instruction is not there. We should avoid setting arbitrary time
                > lines
                > such as 7 years as without good instruction, you don't have good
                > technique. One
                > could simply "do their time" (and it seems evident that some have) and
                > be
                > handed their Sandan and "instructor's status". I think the concern of
                > the trail
                > of notes on this has to do more with quality than time. 7 years of
                > instruction
                > doesn't mean it will be good instruction. As one person said, "We can
                > all die
                > stupid without proper instruction." Some have been priviledged to
                > receive it
                > while others haven't. Hence the proposal for the different levels (1-4
                > for
                > instance) to ensure a core competency of the instructors. It doesn't
                > have to be
                > in BC, as any instructor can fly to meet demand.
                >
                > I also disagree and feel that a separate certificate regarding
                > instruction
                > deserves serious consideration. Can you still teach w/o one? Of course.
                > BUT,
                > that would and perhaps should limit the level one can grade to (if at
                > all). I'm
                > not aware of any dojo that can't travel to see a qualified instructor
                > now. We
                > all take time out of our lives to train, so for one weekend per year to
                > ensure
                > our own technique is of adequate standard would seem to be a very small
                > price
                > to pay.
                >
                > Todd
                >      
                > > good point, I am an instructor no matter what I have hanging on the
                > > wall.  Aikido is about
                > > self development and a natural progression is to instruct to improve.
                > > 
                > > I think the main argument is that some people have been taking on this
                > > challenge
                > > to early in there Aikido. Unfortunately we would not have the number
                > of
                > > students in Canada
                > > if some people had not done this.
                > > 
                > > I am in favour of a change that makes only San Dan and up instructors
                > -
                > > that way you need
                > > at least 7 years in Aikido, kind of what Shioda Sensei had before he
                > > started.
                > > That would be an official instructor with permission from the hombu to
                > > open a school, however,
                > > if you were in a town where there was no yoshinkan Aikido you could
                > get
                > > special permission at
                > > any rank!
                > > 
                > > I don't think you need a separate certificate for instruction, a dojo
                > > registration should be all you need.
                > > if you are in a dojo and you become an instructor, your sensei is
                > still
                > > responsible for
                > > the grading, so why do you need one?  Also if you open a club with
                > > multiple instructors
                > > there names could all be on the Dojo registration.
                > > 
                > > Your own dojo
                > > +
                > > 7 years experience
                > > +
                > > San Dan
                > > +
                > > Dojo registration
                > > =
                > > the ability to recommend promotion of any student in your dojo up
                > > to Shodan.
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: John Hicks [mailto:jhicks2002@...]
                > > Sent: October 30, 2002 5:48 AM
                > > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
                > >
                > >
                > > It seems to me that dan ranking should NOT be
                > > separated from instructing. Isn't Aikido about
                > > wholistic development of both the individual and the
                > > dojo? When a person gets to shodan, part of their
                > > ongoing development necessarily should include some
                > > teaching. Teaching is a powerful tool for learning. To
                > > separate "instructor" from "technical dan" would be a
                > > disservice to the art. Not to mention against the idea
                > > of Budo.
                > >
                > > ~John Hicks
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                > > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor     
                > >
                > > ADVERTISEMENT
                > >
                > >
                > > 
                > >
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              • t.shewman@att.net
                Simply that unfortunately instructing in Yoshinkan is not like a job. Minimum time lines are good. Now we just need to simply apply minimum technical
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 1, 2002
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                  Simply that unfortunately instructing in Yoshinkan is not like a job. Minimum
                  time lines are good. Now we just need to simply apply minimum technical
                  standards.

                  Todd
                  > 7 years is not arbitrary it is the minimum time to San dan.
                  > and should be used as a minimum to be granted a dojo certificate. It
                  > has nothing to
                  > do with skill, it is just a minimum value along with other items such as
                  > - recommendation from instructor
                  > - the fact that you are indeed studying Yoshinkan Aikido
                  > - etc..
                  > btw in some form or another most jobs require that you instruct / be a
                  > leader after 7 years. but I am not sure
                  > what your point is.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: t.shewman@... [mailto:t.shewman@...]
                  > Sent: November 1, 2002 8:40 AM
                  > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
                  >
                  >
                  > B/C not all jobs include becoming an instructor.
                  >
                  >
                  > > I say 7 years, but that is assuming that you have a recommended
                  > > instructor who can grade you to san dan - if you don't
                  > > than you can't get the cert in the first place - all jobs have a
                  > > recommended amount of experience, why not Aikido?
                  > > San dan is a minimum for getting a dojo certificate in my mind.
                  > >
                  > > Mick
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: t.shewman@... [mailto:t.shewman@...]
                  > > Sent: October 30, 2002 8:04 AM
                  > > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I respectfully disagree Mick. The problem is that the quality may
                  > > diminish if
                  > > proper instruction is not there. We should avoid setting arbitrary
                  > time
                  > > lines
                  > > such as 7 years as without good instruction, you don't have good
                  > > technique. One
                  > > could simply "do their time" (and it seems evident that some have) and
                  > > be
                  > > handed their Sandan and "instructor's status". I think the concern of
                  > > the trail
                  > > of notes on this has to do more with quality than time. 7 years of
                  > > instruction
                  > > doesn't mean it will be good instruction. As one person said, "We can
                  > > all die
                  > > stupid without proper instruction." Some have been priviledged to
                  > > receive it
                  > > while others haven't. Hence the proposal for the different levels (1-4
                  > > for
                  > > instance) to ensure a core competency of the instructors. It doesn't
                  > > have to be
                  > > in BC, as any instructor can fly to meet demand.
                  > >
                  > > I also disagree and feel that a separate certificate regarding
                  > > instruction
                  > > deserves serious consideration. Can you still teach w/o one? Of
                  > course.
                  > > BUT,
                  > > that would and perhaps should limit the level one can grade to (if at
                  > > all). I'm
                  > > not aware of any dojo that can't travel to see a qualified instructor
                  > > now. We
                  > > all take time out of our lives to train, so for one weekend per year
                  > to
                  > > ensure
                  > > our own technique is of adequate standard would seem to be a very
                  > small
                  > > price
                  > > to pay.
                  > >
                  > > Todd
                  > >
                  > > > good point, I am an instructor no matter what I have hanging on the
                  > > > wall. Aikido is about
                  > > > self development and a natural progression is to instruct to
                  > improve.
                  > > >
                  > > > I think the main argument is that some people have been taking on
                  > this
                  > > > challenge
                  > > > to early in there Aikido. Unfortunately we would not have the number
                  > > of
                  > > > students in Canada
                  > > > if some people had not done this.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am in favour of a change that makes only San Dan and up
                  > instructors
                  > > -
                  > > > that way you need
                  > > > at least 7 years in Aikido, kind of what Shioda Sensei had before he
                  > > > started.
                  > > > That would be an official instructor with permission from the hombu
                  > to
                  > > > open a school, however,
                  > > > if you were in a town where there was no yoshinkan Aikido you could
                  > > get
                  > > > special permission at
                  > > > any rank!
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't think you need a separate certificate for instruction, a
                  > dojo
                  > > > registration should be all you need.
                  > > > if you are in a dojo and you become an instructor, your sensei is
                  > > still
                  > > > responsible for
                  > > > the grading, so why do you need one? Also if you open a club with
                  > > > multiple instructors
                  > > > there names could all be on the Dojo registration.
                  > > >
                  > > > Your own dojo
                  > > > +
                  > > > 7 years experience
                  > > > +
                  > > > San Dan
                  > > > +
                  > > > Dojo registration
                  > > > =
                  > > > the ability to recommend promotion of any student in your dojo up
                  > > > to Shodan.
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: John Hicks [mailto:jhicks2002@...]
                  > > > Sent: October 30, 2002 5:48 AM
                  > > > To: yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > It seems to me that dan ranking should NOT be
                  > > > separated from instructing. Isn't Aikido about
                  > > > wholistic development of both the individual and the
                  > > > dojo? When a person gets to shodan, part of their
                  > > > ongoing development necessarily should include some
                  > > > teaching. Teaching is a powerful tool for learning. To
                  > > > separate "instructor" from "technical dan" would be a
                  > > > disservice to the art. Not to mention against the idea
                  > > > of Budo.
                  > > >
                  > > > ~John Hicks
                  > > >
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                • Nic and Anna-Marie Mills
                  Hi John, I m not trying to be flame bait here, but I could not disagree with your post more strongly! In Japan dan rank and instructor rank are two separate
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2002
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                    Hi John,
                    I'm not trying to be flame bait here, but I could not disagree with your
                    post more strongly!
                    In Japan dan rank and instructor rank are two separate entities. I was
                    relieved to see Darren's post...that is really only in N.A. that
                    automatically awarding an instructors cert with a dan cert has been done.
                    Luckily some dojo's do not do this. I think that this practice has had a
                    major contribution to the under qualified technical abilities that people
                    are talking about on this list.
                    you said...
                    >Isn't Aikido about holistic development of both the individual and the
                    dojo? The short answer....NO!! Aikido is a Japanese martial art we use the
                    opponents power against them trying to take them off balance and then throw
                    them or control them to the ground... the way of blending with an opponents
                    intensions??!!

                    On going development can come in part by teaching...but mostly by training.

                    Separating instructor from technical dan is an important service to
                    yoshinkan!!

                    It is certainly no against the idea of budo!!!

                    where are you getting your information???

                    Nic Mills

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: John Hicks <jhicks2002@...>
                    To: <yoshinkan@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 8:47 AM
                    Subject: [yoshinkan] Re: Instructors Cert


                    > It seems to me that dan ranking should NOT be
                    > separated from instructing. Isn't Aikido about
                    > wholistic development of both the individual and the
                    > dojo? When a person gets to shodan, part of their
                    > ongoing development necessarily should include some
                    > teaching. Teaching is a powerful tool for learning. To
                    > separate "instructor" from "technical dan" would be a
                    > disservice to the art. Not to mention against the idea
                    > of Budo.
                    >
                    > ~John Hicks
                    >
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