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A Genuine Newbie Post

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  • brian_stegner
    greetings, In way over my head, here, and merely begging a brief indulgence on the part of benevolent regulars. I m building a personal business site, and had
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 20, 2009
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      greetings,

      In way over my head, here, and merely begging a brief indulgence on the part of benevolent regulars.

      I'm building a personal business site, and had the idea, since my biz is technical editing and design, to incorporate a plain-vanilla, Windows-like navigational system (a drop-down main nav/sidebar, context-sensitive collapsing tree-like menu system) and save the artsy/designer-like content/presentation for a demo of styles applied to a standard body of content.

      The problem/issues I'm having is/are many-fold:

      1 - The YUI (as presented in the configuration/loader) is based on html, not my normal xhtml (I can work around this with a different DOCTYPE, but why is it so? Just curious.)

      2 - I want scripts at the end, whenever possible, right before the closing <body> tags. Is that going to work?

      3 - This "var" business: Where is it referenced from in the hierarchy of the html text files (the 'head' tag, right before the element instance, in a CSS ID or class ... or ... where)? Can it serve as a 'pointer' to another directory and can the scripts, themselves, be separated from the markup, as I normally do with javascript in a directory named 'scripts'? Or is it enclosed in CDATA and/or 'script' tags, or what?

      I realize that trying to learn (if only in a modular sense) a new technology, during production, is a bit insane, but, as we used to say in the music biz, "It takes the black keys and the white keys, to make the whole piano."

      I intend to actually educate myself in this technology, properly, at a later (i.e., post-production) date, and I am (technically speaking) a "grownup" so I can handle a polite, "Go Away" if that's the best we can do, for now.

      I've been reading all the posts to this forum, over the last few days, and I realize I am clearly out of my element here. But I'd prefer to give it one more college try before falling back into my conventional nav methods, etc.

      Thanks a million.

      Regards,
    • theblargoner
      1. I m not certain the official answer to this question (if I m understanding the question right) but I have used YUI with XHTML in many instances
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 20, 2009
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        1. I'm not certain the official answer to this question (if I'm understanding the question right) but I have used YUI with XHTML in many instances successfully.

        2. Yes.

        3. ?

        John

        --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "brian_stegner" <stegner.brian@...> wrote:
        >
        > greetings,
        >
        > In way over my head, here, and merely begging a brief indulgence on the part of benevolent regulars.
        >
        > I'm building a personal business site, and had the idea, since my biz is technical editing and design, to incorporate a plain-vanilla, Windows-like navigational system (a drop-down main nav/sidebar, context-sensitive collapsing tree-like menu system) and save the artsy/designer-like content/presentation for a demo of styles applied to a standard body of content.
        >
        > The problem/issues I'm having is/are many-fold:
        >
        > 1 - The YUI (as presented in the configuration/loader) is based on html, not my normal xhtml (I can work around this with a different DOCTYPE, but why is it so? Just curious.)
        >
        > 2 - I want scripts at the end, whenever possible, right before the closing <body> tags. Is that going to work?
        >
        > 3 - This "var" business: Where is it referenced from in the hierarchy of the html text files (the 'head' tag, right before the element instance, in a CSS ID or class ... or ... where)? Can it serve as a 'pointer' to another directory and can the scripts, themselves, be separated from the markup, as I normally do with javascript in a directory named 'scripts'? Or is it enclosed in CDATA and/or 'script' tags, or what?
        >
        > I realize that trying to learn (if only in a modular sense) a new technology, during production, is a bit insane, but, as we used to say in the music biz, "It takes the black keys and the white keys, to make the whole piano."
        >
        > I intend to actually educate myself in this technology, properly, at a later (i.e., post-production) date, and I am (technically speaking) a "grownup" so I can handle a polite, "Go Away" if that's the best we can do, for now.
        >
        > I've been reading all the posts to this forum, over the last few days, and I realize I am clearly out of my element here. But I'd prefer to give it one more college try before falling back into my conventional nav methods, etc.
        >
        > Thanks a million.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
      • brian stegner
        ... No. 2 referred to whether it was okay to load the scripts right before the closing body tag. Thanks for that. No. 3 was a convoluted question re: Where
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 20, 2009
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          At 3:36 AM +0000 on 8/21/09, theblargoner wrote:

          >1. I'm not certain the official answer to this question (if I'm
          >understanding the question right) but I have used YUI with XHTML in
          >many instances successfully.
          >
          >2. Yes.
          >
          >3. ?
          >
          >John

          No. 2 referred to whether it was okay to load the scripts right
          before the closing 'body' tag. Thanks for that.

          No. 3 was a convoluted question re:"Where does the 'var' blurb go? It
          appears, in looking through numerous scripts, that I was confused
          when I saw that the "Configuration & Hosting" page on the YUI dev
          site seemed to be porting scripts with these var statements appearing
          to be detached from the scripts, themselves. The whitespace threw me
          for a loop.

          In one of the tutorials that I watched, I seem to recall that one
          could just have the entire library loaded and simply call up modules,
          as needed. I'm hoping that since they're cached, anyway, that the
          'hit' in load time will be trivial. Any comments on that?

          Thanks again, and best regards
        • theblargoner
          You generally want to load only the modules that you require, not the whole library. You can use the YUI Loader utility to load modules dynamically, if
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 20, 2009
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            You generally want to load only the modules that you require, not the whole library. You can use the YUI Loader utility to load modules dynamically, if desired:

            http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/yuiloader/

            John

            --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, brian stegner <stegner.brian@...> wrote:
            >
            > At 3:36 AM +0000 on 8/21/09, theblargoner wrote:
            >
            > >1. I'm not certain the official answer to this question (if I'm
            > >understanding the question right) but I have used YUI with XHTML in
            > >many instances successfully.
            > >
            > >2. Yes.
            > >
            > >3. ?
            > >
            > >John
            >
            > No. 2 referred to whether it was okay to load the scripts right
            > before the closing 'body' tag. Thanks for that.
            >
            > No. 3 was a convoluted question re:"Where does the 'var' blurb go? It
            > appears, in looking through numerous scripts, that I was confused
            > when I saw that the "Configuration & Hosting" page on the YUI dev
            > site seemed to be porting scripts with these var statements appearing
            > to be detached from the scripts, themselves. The whitespace threw me
            > for a loop.
            >
            > In one of the tutorials that I watched, I seem to recall that one
            > could just have the entire library loaded and simply call up modules,
            > as needed. I'm hoping that since they're cached, anyway, that the
            > 'hit' in load time will be trivial. Any comments on that?
            >
            > Thanks again, and best regards
            >
          • Eric Miraglia
            Brian, Regarding the loading of the library and the strategies involved there, you may want to refer to this article:
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 21, 2009
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              Brian,

              Regarding the loading of the library and the strategies involved there, you may want to refer to this article:


              I understand that you're in the process of both doing and learning (with an emphasis on doing), but it might repay your time to read an introductory article on YUI:


              My final suggestion would be this -- Todd Kloots has written a lot of great Menu examples (http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/ ), and a good bet would be to find the one that most closely resembles your use case and start with that.  This one might be a good place to start?


              -Eric



              From: brian stegner <stegner.brian@...>
              To: ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:40:46 PM
              Subject: [ydn-javascript] Re: A Genuine Newbie Post

               

              At 3:36 AM +0000 on 8/21/09, theblargoner wrote:

              >1. I'm not certain the official answer to this question (if I'm
              >understanding the question right) but I have used YUI with XHTML in
              >many instances successfully.
              >
              >2. Yes.
              >
              >3. ?
              >
              >John

              No. 2 referred to whether it was okay to load the scripts right
              before the closing 'body' tag. Thanks for that.

              No. 3 was a convoluted question re:"Where does the 'var' blurb go? It
              appears, in looking through numerous scripts, that I was confused
              when I saw that the "Configuration & Hosting" page on the YUI dev
              site seemed to be porting scripts with these var statements appearing
              to be detached from the scripts, themselves. The whitespace threw me
              for a loop.

              In one of the tutorials that I watched, I seem to recall that one
              could just have the entire library loaded and simply call up modules,
              as needed. I'm hoping that since they're cached, anyway, that the
              'hit' in load time will be trivial. Any comments on that?

              Thanks again, and best regards

            • juliebonniedaisy
              Brian, you might find my yui loader article useful for seeing a method to load modules. I hope it helps. http://yui.kfocus.com/yuiloadertips.php
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 21, 2009
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                Brian, you might find my yui loader article useful for seeing a method to load modules. I hope it helps.

                http://yui.kfocus.com/yuiloadertips.php
              • brian stegner
                Re: [ydn-javascript] Re: A Genuine Newbie Post At 12:24 PM -0700 on 8/21/09, Eric Miraglia wrote: Regarding the loading of the library and the strategies
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 21, 2009
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                  Re: [ydn-javascript] Re: A Genuine Newbie Post
                  At 12:24 PM -0700 on 8/21/09,  Eric Miraglia wrote:


                  Regarding the loading of the library and the strategies involved there, you may want to refer to this article:

                  http://yuiblog.com/blog/2008/10/17/loading-yui/

                  I understand that you're in the process of both doing and learning (with an emphasis on doing), but it might repay your time to read an introductory article on YUI:

                  http://www.insideria.com/2008/05/writing-your-first-yui-applica.html

                  My final suggestion would be this -- Todd Kloots has written a lot of great Menu examples (http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/ ), and a good bet would be to find the one that most closely resembles your use case and start with that.  This one might be a good place to start?

                  http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/topnavfrommarkup_source.html

                  -Eric

                  Thanks Eric, I'll be absorbing everything. I see the logic in it all, easily, but the terminology is different. I'm from a css and xml background, but am determined to at least learn this, whether I can excel at it eventually, or not. I appreciate everybody's advice and help. Thanks.
                  Brian
                • brian stegner
                  [ydn-javascript] Re: A Genuine Newbie Post At 7:50 PM +0000 on 8/21/09, juliebonniedaisy wrote: Brian, you might find my yui loader article useful for seeing a
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 21, 2009
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                    [ydn-javascript] Re: A Genuine Newbie Post
                    At 7:50 PM +0000 on 8/21/09,  juliebonniedaisy wrote:

                    Brian, you might find my yui loader article useful for seeing a method to load modules. I hope it helps.
                    http://yui.kfocus.com/yuiloadertips.php

                    well, thank you; that's both kind and helpful
                    Brian
                  • Sam Hobbs
                    First, please excuse the format of my reply; these Yahoo messages are frustrating to reply to. It is conventional to clip irrelevant portions, but Windows Mail
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 28, 2009
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                      First, please excuse the format of my reply; these Yahoo messages are frustrating to reply to. It is conventional to clip irrelevant portions, but Windows Mail and Yahoo's format are not compatible. Second, I know this is an old question and I hope you have this all figured out. I am a bit behind in reading this group.
                       
                      For number 3, it seems that JavaScript and HTML and other stuff are confusing. You are seeing them as if they are one thing, but they are very separate. JavaScript can exist totally separate from HTML and XHTML and everything else. It will likely be beneficial to learn JavaScript separately for now. JavaScript and other scripting languages make HTML dynamic.
                       
                      The DOM is kind of a combination of scripting and HTML in the sense that the DOM consists of methods and properties (and such) that correspond with HTML for use by scripts, but that might not be relevant to your question here.
                       
                      Note that HTML without scripts is essentially a word processing format for storing static documents. HTML is based on SGML which was not designed to be as dynamic as web pages have become. So it does not all fit together as logically and seamlessly as it could.
                       
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:45 PM
                      Subject: [ydn-javascript] A Genuine Newbie Post

                       

                      greetings,

                      In way over my head, here, and merely begging a brief indulgence on the part of benevolent regulars.

                      I'm building a personal business site, and had the idea, since my biz is technical editing and design, to incorporate a plain-vanilla, Windows-like navigational system (a drop-down main nav/sidebar, context-sensitive collapsing tree-like menu system) and save the artsy/designer- like content/presentatio n for a demo of styles applied to a standard body of content.

                      The problem/issues I'm having is/are many-fold:

                      1 - The YUI (as presented in the configuration/ loader) is based on html, not my normal xhtml (I can work around this with a different DOCTYPE, but why is it so? Just curious.)

                      2 - I want scripts at the end, whenever possible, right before the closing <body> tags. Is that going to work?

                      3 - This "var" business: Where is it referenced from in the hierarchy of the html text files (the 'head' tag, right before the element instance, in a CSS ID or class ... or ... where)? Can it serve as a 'pointer' to another directory and can the scripts, themselves, be separated from the markup, as I normally do with javascript in a directory named 'scripts'? Or is it enclosed in CDATA and/or 'script' tags, or what?

                      I realize that trying to learn (if only in a modular sense) a new technology, during production, is a bit insane, but, as we used to say in the music biz, "It takes the black keys and the white keys, to make the whole piano."

                      I intend to actually educate myself in this technology, properly, at a later (i.e., post-production) date, and I am (technically speaking) a "grownup" so I can handle a polite, "Go Away" if that's the best we can do, for now.

                      I've been reading all the posts to this forum, over the last few days, and I realize I am clearly out of my element here. But I'd prefer to give it one more college try before falling back into my conventional nav methods, etc.

                      Thanks a million.

                      Regards,

                    • iam_focusedman
                      I would start with the html and javascript tutorials at w3schools.com before looking at any of the YUI tools.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 29, 2009
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                        I would start with the html and javascript tutorials at w3schools.com before looking at any of the YUI tools.


                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: brian_stegner
                        > To: ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:45 PM
                        > Subject: [ydn-javascript] A Genuine Newbie Post
                        >
                        >
                        > greetings,
                        >
                        > In way over my head, here, and merely begging a brief indulgence on the part of benevolent regulars.
                        >
                        > I'm building a personal business site, and had the idea, since my biz is technical editing and design, to incorporate a plain-vanilla, Windows-like navigational system (a drop-down main nav/sidebar, context-sensitive collapsing tree-like menu system) and save the artsy/designer-like content/presentation for a demo of styles applied to a standard body of content.
                        >
                        > The problem/issues I'm having is/are many-fold:
                        >
                        > 1 - The YUI (as presented in the configuration/loader) is based on html, not my normal xhtml (I can work around this with a different DOCTYPE, but why is it so? Just curious.)
                        >
                        > 2 - I want scripts at the end, whenever possible, right before the closing <body> tags. Is that going to work?
                        >
                        > 3 - This "var" business: Where is it referenced from in the hierarchy of the html text files (the 'head' tag, right before the element instance, in a CSS ID or class ... or ... where)? Can it serve as a 'pointer' to another directory and can the scripts, themselves, be separated from the markup, as I normally do with javascript in a directory named 'scripts'? Or is it enclosed in CDATA and/or 'script' tags, or what?
                        >
                        > I realize that trying to learn (if only in a modular sense) a new technology, during production, is a bit insane, but, as we used to say in the music biz, "It takes the black keys and the white keys, to make the whole piano."
                        >
                        > I intend to actually educate myself in this technology, properly, at a later (i.e., post-production) date, and I am (technically speaking) a "grownup" so I can handle a polite, "Go Away" if that's the best we can do, for now.
                        >
                        > I've been reading all the posts to this forum, over the last few days, and I realize I am clearly out of my element here. But I'd prefer to give it one more college try before falling back into my conventional nav methods, etc.
                        >
                        > Thanks a million.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                      • brian_stegner
                        I appreciate the advice. I started using html and then xhtml a while, and while my background is essentially SGML (and it s truncated, narrowed offspring xml,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 29, 2009
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                          I appreciate the advice. I started using html and then xhtml a while, and while my background is essentially SGML (and it's truncated, narrowed offspring xml, html, etc, ). I got deep into CSS well ahead of MS, and Yahoo!, also, now that I recall.

                          Javascript is another kettle of fish. I used to write xhtml and css to do many of the same user interface things (chiefly navigational) that early javascript users were adopting.

                          The only reason I'm incorporating javascript now is because I don't care about the 20% or so who can't or won't have it enabled.

                          The first part of the YUI library that I understood, fully, was the reset_fonts_grids thing. Anyone, like me, who spent thousands of hours trying to write hacks for all the IEs of the world, not to mention the hours spent writing valid html/CSS versions of all the hokey javascript "cookbook-script-kid" stuff that is on a billion or so pages, can easily understand why I'm in awe of the time and work that went into just that part of the YUI.

                          It might sound sacrilegious, but I'm not concerned with high-level YUI stuff to build yet-another Facebook data collection gimmick. I just want a level playing field, across A-grade browsers.

                          And now that I have that foundational bit down cold (courtesy of the YUI core layout-related work and libraries) I'm going to try to get a grip on the YUI menu structures. I like the Navigational stuff that is generated by javascript rather than markup. So that's next for me.

                          When I get some backlog cleared up over here I am going to be reading some javascript stuff, from the beginning.

                          I've appreciated the help and encouragement very much.

                          Regards.

                          --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "iam_focusedman" <iam_focusedman@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I would start with the html and javascript tutorials at w3schools.com before looking at any of the YUI tools.
                          >
                          >
                          > >
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