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Re: [ydn-javascript] YUI Library: Monthly Roadmap Update

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  • Eric Miraglia
    Nige, Thanks for the list; we ll certainly take this input into consideration as we build the tool. We re too early in the process to make any commitments on
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 2, 2006
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      Nige,

      Thanks for the list; we'll certainly take this input into consideration as we build the tool.  We're too early in the process to make any commitments on feature content for the initial release, but you can be sure that we take this kind of thoughtful input very seriously.

      Regards,
      Eric



      ______________________________________________
      Eric Miraglia
      Yahoo! Presentation Platform Engineering



      On Aug 31, 2006, at 4:32 PM, Nige White wrote:

      Eric Miraglia wrote:

      <>
      *Monthly YUI Roadmap Update — August 2006:*

      4.  Table Control
      Dynamic tabular data controls are a common interactive treatment for 
      data-intensive interfaces, going beyond simple table functionality to 
      add features like dynamic sorting, editing-in-place, resizable 
      columns, and more.
      *Projected Release:* After 0.12
      <> *Confidence: *Medium


      Sorry for the late reply. This control is really needed. All the 
      versions out there are lacking in features, or unreliable and flaky. 
      I've looked at a lot of them, and they all lose the plot after a while.

      Several features are needed for a control like this to be fully usable:

      * Have the table body scroll up and down leaving the headers static.

      * Allow the table body to scroll left and right within a viewport and 
      have the headers follow it. Column resize should keep all other column 
      sizes the same, and expand/contract the width of the table body. 
      Backbase's listgrid squeezes the table body into the available width, 
      and resize squeezes subsequent columns.

      * Allow access to the onscroll event of the table body, so that new rows 
      can be added using Ajax. Even better would be some kind of subscribable 
      "depletion" event which would fire when scrolling down, and there are 
      only a certain number of available lines below the viewport.

      * Expose a method for adding rows for use from the onscroll/ondepletion 
      event hander.

      * Moveable columns (with access to onmove event to save column order) 
      But have the add row method know about moved columns so that the 
      onscroll/ondepletion event handler does not have to re-order the 
      elements before calling the add row method.

      I have some of those features working here: 

      (The new row load does not take moved columns into account - I'm working 
      on that still)

      Will the proposed control have any/some of these features?

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    • Peter Michaux
      ... Any chance you could publish the API as it develops to see if people have suggestions before it is written in stone? Thanks, Peter
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 4, 2006
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        On 9/2/06, Eric Miraglia <miraglia@...> wrote:

        > Thanks for the list; we'll certainly take this input into consideration as we build the tool. We're too early in the process to make any commitments on feature content for the initial release, but you can be sure that we take this kind of thoughtful input very seriously.

        Any chance you could publish the API as it develops to see if people
        have suggestions before it is written in stone?

        Thanks,
        Peter
      • Eric Miraglia
        Monthly YUI Roadmap Update — October 2006: The YUI Library currently stands at version 0.11.4. When I last published a roadmap update two months ago, we were
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 10, 2006
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          Monthly YUI Roadmap Update — October 2006:

          The YUI Library currently stands at version 0.11.4.

          When I last published a roadmap update two months ago, we were projecting an October release for 0.12; that release has been pushed back to the first half of November.  The best of our current thinking with respect to 0.12 is detailed below; in summary, it's expected to feature the debut of the YUI Tab Control, enhancements to the Yahoo Object (methods supporting object extension and augmentation), major improvements to the Calendar Control API, and assorted bug fixes.  A YUI Button Control is well along in its development cycle; we expect it to be a part of 0.13, projected for December.  

          Beyond 0.13, taking us into 2007, we are focusing on three major areas:

          1.  Additional core components.  I mentioned in August that we're working on a YUI Table Control/DataGrid; that is one of several core components we'd like to add to YUI.  The Table Control should be available by early next year and additional components will follow.

          2.  Improved interface consistency.  Currently we support several different patterns for configuring and interacting with our controls.  In the next phase of development, we are looking to improve the quality and consistency of YUI interfaces across the board.

          3.  Improved documentation.  

          + + + + + + + + 

          Next two release windows for YUI Library Beta:
          1.  Early November (v. 0.12) — Tab Control, Yahoo Object enhancements (extension and augmentation of objects), Event Utility enhancements, significant Calendar Control API improvements, bug fixes.
          2.  December (v. 0.13) — Button Control, bug fixes.

          Projects in Development:
          1.  Tab Control
          The Tab Control will provide support for a variety of tabbed-module implementations.
          Projected Release: 0.12
          Confidence: High

          2.  Button Control 
          The Button Control will enable the deployment buttons with (1) diverse visual treatments (e.g., with or without images); (2) configurable actions (clicking can be tied to form submission or other custom functions); (3) integrated menus and submenus; .  
          Projected Release: 0.13
          Confidence: High

          3.  History Utility
          Managing the browser's history stack is critical to the creation of applications that are intuitive, usable, and sharable.  Currently, management of the History stack in applications based on YUI requires you to roll your own solution.  The History Utility will help facilitate this process by providing a simple interface for adding application states to the History stack during asynchronous interaction flows.
          Projected Release: After 0.13
          Confidence: We continue to investigate actively the best approach to this problem across the A-Grade.  We are pushing this back beyond 0.13 at this point based on what we've learned so far, but we remain interested in creating a reliable cross-browser solution for this problem.

          4.  Table/DataGrid Control
          Dynamic tabular data controls are a common interactive treatment for data-intensive interfaces, going beyond simple table functionality to add features like dynamic sorting, editing-in-place, resizable columns, and more.
          Projected Release: after 0.13
          Confidence: Medium

          + + + + + + + +

          Note:  This roadmap projects our plans over the next quarter or so; in so doing, it makes assumptions about conditions that are naturally dynamic.  Some of the projects detailed here may be delivered earlier or later than we are currently expecting; some may not be delivered at all.  Other projects not listed here may be escalated during this period.  Use this document only as a rough guide; never rely on unreleased code listed here for any crucial needs.

          Regards,
          Eric

          ______________________________________________
          Eric Miraglia
          Yahoo! Presentation Platform Engineering

        • Nige White
          Eric, I assume you have been keeping up with Jack s developments in these areas. Jack s Grid component is extremely well designed, flexible and easy to use.
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 11, 2006
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            Eric, I assume you have been keeping up with Jack's developments in
            these areas. Jack's Grid component is extremely well designed, flexible
            and easy to use.

            Will the YUI Grid be comparable or based on Jack's implementation? There
            are already people using it, and it would be a shame to see a
            "competition". While I would like to be fully YUI-standard compliant (to
            place a lot of maintenance onus on the larger resources of Yahoo - I'm
            the only UI dev guy here), I don't want to move away from the concepts.

            What I particularly like is the MVC separation. This is something that
            really facilitates flexible supply of data and metadata to the grid.

            I think the YUI TreeView control is due a radical overhaul to move to an
            MVC architecture too.

            I also like Jack's "Element" abstraction of DOM elements into a powerful
            object. His additions to the Function prototype are useful too.

            Nige

            Eric Miraglia wrote:

            > *Monthly YUI Roadmap Update — October 2006:*
            >
            > The YUI Library currently stands at version 0.11.4.
            >
            > When I last published a roadmap update two months ago, we were
            > projecting an October release for 0.12; that release has been pushed
            > back to the first half of November. The best of our current thinking
            > with respect to 0.12 is detailed below; in summary, it's expected to
            > feature the debut of the YUI Tab Control, enhancements to the Yahoo
            > Object (methods supporting object extension and augmentation), major
            > improvements to the Calendar Control API, and assorted bug fixes. A
            > YUI Button Control is well along in its development cycle; we expect
            > it to be a part of 0.13, projected for December.
            >
            > Beyond 0.13, taking us into 2007, we are focusing on three major areas:
            >
            > 1. *Additional core components.* I mentioned in August that we're
            > working on a YUI Table Control/DataGrid; that is one of several core
            > components we'd like to add to YUI. The Table Control should be
            > available by early next year and additional components will follow.
            >
            > 2. *Improved interface consistency.* Currently we support several
            > different patterns for configuring and interacting with our controls.
            > In the next phase of development, we are looking to improve the
            > quality and consistency of YUI interfaces across the board.
            >
            > 3. *Improved documentation.*
            >
            > + + + + + + + +
            >
            > /Next two release windows for YUI Library Beta:/
            > 1. * Early November* (v. 0.12) — Tab Control, Yahoo Object
            > enhancements (extension and augmentation of objects), Event Utility
            > enhancements, significant Calendar Control API improvements, bug fixes.
            > 2. *December* (v. 0.13) — Button Control, bug fixes.
            >
            > /Projects in Development:/
            > 1. Tab Control
            > The Tab Control will provide support for a variety of tabbed-module
            > implementations.
            > *Projected Release: *0.12
            > *Confidence: *High
            >
            > 2. Button Control
            > The Button Control will enable the deployment buttons with (1) diverse
            > visual treatments (e.g., with or without images); (2) configurable
            > actions (clicking can be tied to form submission or other custom
            > functions); (3) integrated menus and submenus; .
            > *Projected Release:* 0.13
            > *Confidence:* High
            >
            > 3. History Utility
            > Managing the browser's history stack is critical to the creation of
            > applications that are intuitive, usable, and sharable. Currently,
            > management of the History stack in applications based on YUI requires
            > you to roll your own solution. The History Utility will help
            > facilitate this process by providing a simple interface for adding
            > application states to the History stack during asynchronous
            > interaction flows.
            > *Projected Release:* After 0.13
            > *Confidence:* We continue to investigate actively the best approach to
            > this problem across the A-Grade. We are pushing this back beyond 0.13
            > at this point based on what we've learned so far, but we remain
            > interested in creating a reliable cross-browser solution for this problem.
            >
            > 4. Table/DataGrid Control
            > Dynamic tabular data controls are a common interactive treatment for
            > data-intensive interfaces, going beyond simple table functionality to
            > add features like dynamic sorting, editing-in-place, resizable
            > columns, and more.
            > *Projected Release:* after 0.13
            > *Confidence: *Medium
            >
            > + + + + + + + +
            >
            > *Note:* This roadmap projects our plans over the next quarter or so;
            > in so doing, it makes assumptions about conditions that are naturally
            > dynamic. Some of the projects detailed here may be delivered earlier
            > or later than we are currently expecting; some may not be delivered at
            > all. Other projects not listed here may be escalated during this
            > period. Use this document only as a rough guide; never rely on
            > unreleased code listed here for any crucial needs.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Eric
            >
            > *______________________________________________*
            > *Eric Miraglia*
            > Yahoo! Presentation Platform Engineering
            >
            >
            > _____________________________________________________________________
            > This message has been checked for all known viruses. Virus scanning
            > powered by Messagelabs http://www.messagelabs.com For more information
            > e-mail : hostmaster@...



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          • Nige White
            ... Ah, erm, I ve just visited yuiblog.com! _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 11, 2006
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              Nige White wrote:

              >Eric, I assume you have been keeping up with Jack's developments...
              >
              >
              Ah, erm, I've just visited yuiblog.com!

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            • Ivan Lazarte
              Maybe Jack should just be added to the dev team :) I d rather have the source of YAHOO related code consolidated so I don t get competing functionality
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 11, 2006
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                Maybe Jack should just be added to the dev team :) I'd rather have
                the source of YAHOO related code consolidated so I don't get
                competing functionality implemented in both libraries... It would be
                the inevitable return of the fork problem.

                --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, Nige White <nigelw@...> wrote:
                >
                > Eric, I assume you have been keeping up with Jack's developments
                in
                > these areas. Jack's Grid component is extremely well designed,
                flexible
                > and easy to use.
                >
                > Will the YUI Grid be comparable or based on Jack's implementation?
                There
                > are already people using it, and it would be a shame to see a
                > "competition". While I would like to be fully YUI-standard
                compliant (to
                > place a lot of maintenance onus on the larger resources of Yahoo -
                I'm
                > the only UI dev guy here), I don't want to move away from the
                concepts.
                >
                > What I particularly like is the MVC separation. This is something
                that
                > really facilitates flexible supply of data and metadata to the
                grid.
                >
                > I think the YUI TreeView control is due a radical overhaul to move
                to an
                > MVC architecture too.
                >
                > I also like Jack's "Element" abstraction of DOM elements into a
                powerful
                > object. His additions to the Function prototype are useful too.
                >
                > Nige
                >
                > Eric Miraglia wrote:
                >
                > > *Monthly YUI Roadmap Update — October 2006:*
                > >
                > > The YUI Library currently stands at version 0.11.4.
                > >
                > > When I last published a roadmap update two months ago, we were
                > > projecting an October release for 0.12; that release has been
                pushed
                > > back to the first half of November. The best of our current
                thinking
                > > with respect to 0.12 is detailed below; in summary, it's
                expected to
                > > feature the debut of the YUI Tab Control, enhancements to the
                Yahoo
                > > Object (methods supporting object extension and augmentation),
                major
                > > improvements to the Calendar Control API, and assorted bug
                fixes. A
                > > YUI Button Control is well along in its development cycle; we
                expect
                > > it to be a part of 0.13, projected for December.
                > >
                > > Beyond 0.13, taking us into 2007, we are focusing on three major
                areas:
                > >
                > > 1. *Additional core components.* I mentioned in August that
                we're
                > > working on a YUI Table Control/DataGrid; that is one of several
                core
                > > components we'd like to add to YUI. The Table Control should be
                > > available by early next year and additional components will
                follow.
                > >
                > > 2. *Improved interface consistency.* Currently we support
                several
                > > different patterns for configuring and interacting with our
                controls.
                > > In the next phase of development, we are looking to improve the
                > > quality and consistency of YUI interfaces across the board.
                > >
                > > 3. *Improved documentation.*
                > >
                > > + + + + + + + +
                > >
                > > /Next two release windows for YUI Library Beta:/
                > > 1. * Early November* (v. 0.12) — Tab Control, Yahoo Object
                > > enhancements (extension and augmentation of objects), Event
                Utility
                > > enhancements, significant Calendar Control API improvements, bug
                fixes.
                > > 2. *December* (v. 0.13) — Button Control, bug fixes.
                > >
                > > /Projects in Development:/
                > > 1. Tab Control
                > > The Tab Control will provide support for a variety of tabbed-
                module
                > > implementations.
                > > *Projected Release: *0.12
                > > *Confidence: *High
                > >
                > > 2. Button Control
                > > The Button Control will enable the deployment buttons with (1)
                diverse
                > > visual treatments (e.g., with or without images); (2)
                configurable
                > > actions (clicking can be tied to form submission or other custom
                > > functions); (3) integrated menus and submenus; .
                > > *Projected Release:* 0.13
                > > *Confidence:* High
                > >
                > > 3. History Utility
                > > Managing the browser's history stack is critical to the creation
                of
                > > applications that are intuitive, usable, and sharable.
                Currently,
                > > management of the History stack in applications based on YUI
                requires
                > > you to roll your own solution. The History Utility will help
                > > facilitate this process by providing a simple interface for
                adding
                > > application states to the History stack during asynchronous
                > > interaction flows.
                > > *Projected Release:* After 0.13
                > > *Confidence:* We continue to investigate actively the best
                approach to
                > > this problem across the A-Grade. We are pushing this back
                beyond 0.13
                > > at this point based on what we've learned so far, but we remain
                > > interested in creating a reliable cross-browser solution for
                this problem.
                > >
                > > 4. Table/DataGrid Control
                > > Dynamic tabular data controls are a common interactive treatment
                for
                > > data-intensive interfaces, going beyond simple table
                functionality to
                > > add features like dynamic sorting, editing-in-place, resizable
                > > columns, and more.
                > > *Projected Release:* after 0.13
                > > *Confidence: *Medium
                > >
                > > + + + + + + + +
                > >
                > > *Note:* This roadmap projects our plans over the next quarter
                or so;
                > > in so doing, it makes assumptions about conditions that are
                naturally
                > > dynamic. Some of the projects detailed here may be delivered
                earlier
                > > or later than we are currently expecting; some may not be
                delivered at
                > > all. Other projects not listed here may be escalated during
                this
                > > period. Use this document only as a rough guide; never rely on
                > > unreleased code listed here for any crucial needs.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > > Eric
                > >
                > > *______________________________________________*
                > > *Eric Miraglia*
                > > Yahoo! Presentation Platform Engineering
                > >
                > >
                > >
                _____________________________________________________________________
                > > This message has been checked for all known viruses. Virus
                scanning
                > > powered by Messagelabs http://www.messagelabs.com For more
                information
                > > e-mail : hostmaster@...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                _____________________________________________________________________
                > This message has been checked for all known viruses. Virus scanning
                > powered by Messagelabs http://www.messagelabs.com For more
                information
                > e-mail : hostmaster@...
                >
              • Donald J. Sipe III
                I think the separation of Jack s code and Yahoo s code is important. To me, I feel more comfortable incorporating Yahoo s tried and tested code into
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 11, 2006
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                  I think the separation of Jack's code and Yahoo's code is important.  To me, I feel more comfortable incorporating Yahoo's tried and tested code into mission-critical projects.  Jack has done some amazing and wonderful stuff that is also well-tested and documented, but putting the Yahoo seal on it gives it all a greater sense of legitimacy.  This is especially helpful when you start incorporating YUI into the play-it-safe corporate environment, which still regards AJAX with standoffish skepticism.

                  I think Jack is making great strides in pushing the envelope and advancing YUI to its full potential, but adoption and stability are critical.  People who might see building UIs in JavaScript as a liability want assurances it will work and that they can trust it. Telling them it's the same library that Yahoo uses on its own sites goes a long way toward soothing their nerves.

                • Matt Warden
                  ... These are very good points. I am currently trying to get buy-in to use YUI, and it is clear to me that it would be nearly impossible to do if not for the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 11, 2006
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                    On 10/11/06, Donald J. Sipe III <donald.sipe@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think the separation of Jack's code and Yahoo's code is important. To me, I feel more comfortable incorporating Yahoo's tried and tested code into mission-critical projects. Jack has done some amazing and wonderful stuff that is also well-tested and documented, but putting the Yahoo seal on it gives it all a greater sense of legitimacy. This is especially helpful when you start incorporating YUI into the play-it-safe corporate environment, which still regards AJAX with standoffish skepticism.
                    >
                    > I think Jack is making great strides in pushing the envelope and advancing YUI to its full potential, but adoption and stability are critical. People who might see building UIs in JavaScript as a liability want assurances it will work and that they can trust it. Telling them it's the same library that Yahoo uses on its own sites goes a long way toward soothing their nerves.
                    >
                    >


                    These are very good points. I am currently trying to get buy-in to use
                    YUI, and it is clear to me that it would be nearly impossible to do if
                    not for the Yahoo's backing of the project. Given Yahoo's reluctance
                    to accept direct code contributions, I think they are probably aware
                    and working to develop a contribution model that respects this.


                    --
                    Matt Warden
                    Cleveland, OH, USA
                    http://mattwarden.com


                    This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy.
                  • Jack Slocum
                    ... I think that depends on how you look at it. Imagine if the code was part of the regular distribution and had the same resources and cycles for testing as
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 11, 2006
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                      > I think the separation of Jack's code and Yahoo's code is important.

                      I think that depends on how you look at it. Imagine if the code was part of the regular distribution and had the same resources and cycles for testing as the rest of the YUI code. That certainly couldn't be a negative thing. I not rallying for them to be joined, I'm just being hypothetical.

                      > To me, I feel more comfortable incorporating Yahoo's tried and tested code into
                      > mission-critical projects.

                      I would too. This is completely understandable.

                      > Jack has done some amazing and wonderful stuff
                      > that is also well-tested and documented...


                      Thank you.

                      > but putting the Yahoo seal on it
                      > gives it all a greater sense of legitimacy.  This is especially helpful when
                      > you start incorporating YUI into the play-it-safe corporate environment,
                      > which still regards AJAX with standoffish skepticism.
                      > I think Jack is making great strides in pushing the envelope and advancing
                      > YUI to its full potential, but adoption and stability are critical. People
                      > who might see building UIs in JavaScript as a liability want assurances it
                      > will work and that they can trust it. Telling them it's the same library
                      > that Yahoo uses on its own sites goes a long way toward soothing their
                      > nerves.
                      >

                      I understand this as well. A lot of my development experience is in the manufacturing industry. They are as resistent to change as anyone. The Yahoo name has certainly helped me in that aspect as well.

                      The reason my project started was because developing a large application with YUI only (no prototype or other libraries) requires a bit of "reinventing the wheel"  and "long hand" coding. The YUI utilities give you the perfect tools to do your JavaScript development independent of the browser, but for most application development it's nice to start with something more than that. This additional "plumbing" code has to be written by someone (unless you plan of repeating code over and over). IMO, it's better to use an extension that is tested by thousands of  developers than a homegrown solution especially if that code is also free.

                      The Element, UpdateManager, and new DomHelper classes extend on that YUI foundation and provide a developer a time-saving API and some features that currently no other library provides (like automatic box model corrections, insertion optimization, auto-animations, etc). All the code is built on the solid foundation of YUI. I have learned to rely on these tools in my development and I can't tell you how many hours they save me. I make the code available on my site not to compete with Yahoo, but simply to follow Yahoo's example and share my work with others.

                      Each project has it's own needs. For many projects the yui-ext code is overkill.  But that doesn't mean you should rule it out simply because it was written by me and isn't official YUI code.

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