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Re: [ydn-javascript] YUI CSS Problems

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  • Nate Koechley
    Hey Howard, I ve simplified it: Divide pixels by 13 for ems. Use this -- to the thousandth s place -- for conforming browsers. For other browsers divide pixels
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 11, 2008
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      Hey Howard,

      I've simplified it:

      • Divide pixels by 13 for ems. Use this -- to the thousandth's place -- for conforming browsers. For other browsers divide pixels by 13.333. Hide this secondary value behind a star-property parsing exploit (or filter). 

      For example, for a page width of 610px:

      <style>
      #my-page-width {
      width: 46.923em; /* conforming browsers first (610/13) */
      *width: 45.750em; /* then to other browsers (610/13.3333) */
      }
      </style>

      Thanks,
      Nate


      On Mar 10, 2008, at 7:53 PM, howard chen wrote:

      Hi Nate,

      Thanks for your answer.

      Final question: How do you come up with the magic value for IE *width,
      i.e.  "0.9759" ?

      Howard


      On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Nate Koechley <natek@...> wrote:






      Hey Howard,

      1) Yes, this is the right place to ask about all things YUI, including the
      CSS Foundation.

      2) Base is a convenience file that puts back -- in a normalized way -- some
      of the stuff that Reset takes away. You can use it anywhere you please, but
      often it is redundant since it's unlikely that the font size it defines for
      headers, for instance, is the exact size your project calls for.

      Many people use Base as a "snippets library" to see, for example. how to put
      bullets back on unordered list items.

      Other people use Base when they want readable basic HTML. Sometimes I take
      write or take notes in HTML format, and find it useful to add Base to the
      page for a simple readable format.

      3) This isn't supported feature, but because it's CSS you, of course, able
      to overwrite the declarations. The "preset templates" use "negative margins"
      as you can see here in a snippet from the file:


      .yui-t1 .yui-b {float:left;width:12.30769em;*width:12.00em;}
      .yui-t1 #yui-main .yui-b{margin-left:13.30769em;*margin-left:13.05em;}

      The arithmetic for getting the width-in-ems is the same as when customizing
      page width. That formula, as well as a reminder that you'll need to set one
      width for non-IE then another width for IE is on this page:

      http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/#custom_page_width

      4) I'm not exactly sure what your fourth question is. Can you provide more
      detail?


      Thanks,
      Nate









      On Mar 4, 2008, at 6:44 AM, howard chen wrote:




      Hello,

      Some questions about YUI CSS,

      1. Is this group (ydn-javascript) the right place for asking Grid CSS
      questions? I can't find any other place...

      2. When should base.css should be used? I think most sites (including
      Yahoo) are not using base.css

      3. Is it possible to have custom column width when using grids.css ?
      E.g. in http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/, you can adjust
      the width of doc, but not the columns...seems not that flexible

      4. Should be progress with the grid building (nested DIV) until no
      further DIV are being used?

      Thanks.

      Howard.





    • howard chen
      Hi Nate, ... Yes, this is more clear, thanks. One more question: I really appreciated the way Grid CSS divide the left and the right regions not just using
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 11, 2008
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        Hi Nate,


        On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Nate Koechley <natek@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hey Howard,
        >
        > I've simplified it:
        >
        >
        > Divide pixels by 13 for ems. Use this -- to the thousandth's place -- for
        > conforming browsers. For other browsers divide pixels by 13.333. Hide this
        > secondary value behind a star-property parsing exploit (or filter).
        >

        Yes, this is more clear, thanks.


        One more question:

        I really appreciated the way Grid CSS divide the left and the right
        regions not just using simple float and clear methods.

        How do you come up with this idea? Seems I had never read a book/site
        mentioning this method, how do we call them?

        Thanks~

        Howard
      • Nate Koechley
        Hey, ... If you re talking about the template preset part of Grids, for instance .yui-t1 that controls the two .yui-b s, that technique is commonly referred
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 11, 2008
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          Hey,

          > One more question:
          >
          > I really appreciated the way Grid CSS divide the left and the right
          > regions not just using simple float and clear methods.
          >
          > How do you come up with this idea? Seems I had never read a book/site
          > mentioning this method, how do we call them?


          If you're talking about the "template preset" part of Grids, for
          instance .yui-t1 that controls the two .yui-b's, that technique is
          commonly referred to as "negative margins".

          Thanks,
          Nate
        • howard chen
          Thank you again.
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 11, 2008
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            Thank you again.

            On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Nate Koechley <natek@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hey,
            >
            >
            > > One more question:
            > >
            > > I really appreciated the way Grid CSS divide the left and the right
            > > regions not just using simple float and clear methods.
            > >
            > > How do you come up with this idea? Seems I had never read a book/site
            > > mentioning this method, how do we call them?
            >
            > If you're talking about the "template preset" part of Grids, for
            > instance .yui-t1 that controls the two .yui-b's, that technique is
            > commonly referred to as "negative margins".
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Nate
            >
            >
          • r9madridhk
            ... - ... 13.333. ... (or ... (610/13) */ ... (610/13.3333) */ ... Hi Nate, Why your calculation is different from:
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 16, 2008
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              --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, Nate Koechley <natek@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hey Howard,
              >
              > I've simplified it:
              >
              > Divide pixels by 13 for ems. Use this -- to the thousandth's place -
              -
              > for conforming browsers. For other browsers divide pixels by
              13.333.
              > Hide this secondary value behind a star-property parsing exploit
              (or
              > filter).
              >
              > For example, for a page width of 610px:
              >
              > <style>
              > #my-page-width {
              > width: 46.923em; /* conforming browsers first
              (610/13) */
              > *width: 45.750em; /* then to other browsers
              (610/13.3333) */
              > }
              > </style>
              >

              Hi Nate,

              Why your calculation is different from:
              http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/grids/grids-doc-custom.html

              It said: ...Divide your desired pixel width by 13; the result is your
              width in ems for all non-IE browsers. Take the em width you just
              calculated and multiply it by .9759 to find the width in ems for IE.
              ...

              For example, with template preset t1 (750px), calculations shown
              below:

              width:57.69em; /* 750/13 */
              *width:56.301em /* 750/13*0.9759, this one came with YUI 2.5.0 */
              *width:56.250em /* 750/13.3333 */

              Which one is the correct one?
            • Nate Koechley
              This is correct: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/27139 The site and documentation will by updated to conform to that newer
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 17, 2008
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                This is correct:


                The site and documentation will by updated to conform to that newer information.

                Please accept my apologies for the confusion, and my thanks for pointing it out.

                Thanks,
                Nate



                On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:43 PM, r9madridhk wrote:

                --- In ydn-javascript@ yahoogroups. com, Nate Koechley <natek@...> 
                wrote:
                >
                > Hey Howard,
                > 
                > I've simplified it:
                > 
                > Divide pixels by 13 for ems. Use this -- to the thousandth's place -
                - 
                > for conforming browsers. For other browsers divide pixels by 
                13.333. 
                > Hide this secondary value behind a star-property parsing exploit 
                (or 
                > filter).
                > 
                > For example, for a page width of 610px:
                > 
                > <style>
                > #my-page-width {
                > width: 46.923em; /* conforming browsers first 
                (610/13) */
                > *width: 45.750em; /* then to other browsers 
                (610/13.3333) */
                > }
                > </style>
                > 

                Hi Nate,

                Why your calculation is different from: 
                http://developer. yahoo.com/ yui/examples/ grids/grids- doc-custom. html

                It said: ...Divide your desired pixel width by 13; the result is your 
                width in ems for all non-IE browsers. Take the em width you just 
                calculated and multiply it by .9759 to find the width in ems for IE.
                ...

                For example, with template preset t1 (750px), calculations shown 
                below:

                width:57.69em; /* 750/13 */
                *width:56.301em /* 750/13*0.9759, this one came with YUI 2.5.0 */
                *width:56.250em /* 750/13.3333 */

                Which one is the correct one?


              • Klaudiusz Szatanik
                Hi, when I asked the author of YAML (not sure if you know this CSS framework, IMO it is a very sophisticated one) about what he thinks are the biggest
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 17, 2008
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                  Hi,

                  when I asked the author of YAML (not sure if you know this CSS
                  framework, IMO it is a very sophisticated one) about what he thinks
                  are the biggest differences between his framework and the YUI's, he
                  answered that YAML allows "flexible" layouts (flexible column widths,
                  defined with percentage) and YUI does not.

                  After my first steps with the YUI grids I must admit that this is true
                  (apart from I missed sth.). Is there a workaround for flexible columns
                  or do I have to live without it deciding for the "grids".

                  Cheers, Klaudiusz


                  --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "howard chen" <howachen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  >
                  > Some questions about YUI CSS,
                  >
                  > 1. Is this group (ydn-javascript) the right place for asking Grid CSS
                  > questions? I can't find any other place...
                  >
                  > 2. When should base.css should be used? I think most sites (including
                  > Yahoo) are not using base.css
                  >
                  > 3. Is it possible to have custom column width when using grids.css ?
                  > E.g. in http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/, you can adjust
                  > the width of doc, but not the columns...seems not that flexible
                  >
                  > 4. Should be progress with the grid building (nested DIV) until no
                  > further DIV are being used?
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > Howard.
                  >
                • Nate Koechley
                  Hey Klaudiusz, YUI provides flexible percentage-based layouts. And layouts tied to font-size instead of viewport size. And combo layouts. How? There are three
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 17, 2008
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                    Hey Klaudiusz,

                    YUI provides flexible percentage-based layouts. And layouts tied to font-size instead of viewport size. And combo layouts. 

                    How?

                    There are three types of functionality in Grids. Each of the three are fully independent of each other but play nicely together?

                    1) Overall Page Width
                    2) Preset Templates
                    3) Nesting Grids

                    Let's look at each in turn.

                    1) Overall Page Width:

                    Three of the four provided overall page widths are set in ems. Because they are in EMs they respond to font size by not viewport size. One of the four is set in %s, and therefore respond to viewport by not font size.

                    You can customize the overall page width, or set it completely on your own, including with %s that respond to viewport size.

                    2) Preset Templates:

                    Six preset two-column templates are provided. Each define the width of the narrower secondary block/column in EMs, and let the wider primary column block take up whatever space is left. (Total page width - secondary narrow column = primary column width.) 

                    The narrow secondary column will always respond to font-size but not viewport size. 

                    If your overall page width is defined with %s, then the width of the primary column will naturally respond to viewport size.

                    3) Nesting Grids:
                    There are defined with percentages and respond to the size of their container (which can be the viewport, a different nesting grid, and/or any other node or region.

                    Since each of the three pieces of YUI Grids is independent, you can use this Nesting Grids portion to build a layout that is fully flexible and built with percentages exclusively.

                    Hope that helps.

                    Thanks,
                    Nate




                    On Mar 17, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Klaudiusz Szatanik wrote:

                    Hi,

                    when I asked the author of YAML (not sure if you know this CSS
                    framework, IMO it is a very sophisticated one) about what he thinks
                    are the biggest differences between his framework and the YUI's, he
                    answered that YAML allows "flexible" layouts (flexible column widths,
                    defined with percentage) and YUI does not.

                    After my first steps with the YUI grids I must admit that this is true
                    (apart from I missed sth.). Is there a workaround for flexible columns
                    or do I have to live without it deciding for the "grids".

                    Cheers, Klaudiusz


                    --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "howard chen" <howachen@...> wrote:

                    Hello,

                    Some questions about YUI CSS,

                    1. Is this group (ydn-javascript) the right place for asking Grid CSS
                    questions? I can't find any other place...

                    2. When should base.css should be used? I think most sites (including
                    Yahoo) are not using base.css

                    3. Is it possible to have custom column width when using grids.css ?
                    E.g. in http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/, you can adjust
                    the width of doc, but not the columns...seems not that flexible

                    4. Should be progress with the grid building (nested DIV) until no
                    further DIV are being used?


                    Thanks.

                    Howard.




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                  • howard chen
                    ... Hi Nate, So you mean current 2.5.0 build of YUI is already outdated? E.g. in the 2.5.0 grid.css width:57.69em; *width:56.301em; min-width:750px; If refer
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 17, 2008
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                      On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 2:26 AM, Nate Koechley <natek@...> wrote:
                      > This is correct:
                      >
                      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/27139
                      >
                      > The site and documentation will by updated to conform to that newer
                      > information.
                      >

                      Hi Nate,

                      So you mean current 2.5.0 build of YUI is already outdated?

                      E.g. in the 2.5.0 grid.css

                      width:57.69em;
                      *width:56.301em;
                      min-width:750px;

                      If refer to you latest post, it should be:

                      width:57.69em;
                      *width:56.25em; /* 750 / 13.333 */
                      min-width:750px;


                      Is it right?

                      Thanks.
                    • Klaudiusz Szatanik
                      Hi Nate, Thank you for the explanation of the three types of functionality in Grids. Now I see what was standing there all the time in the Grids
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 18, 2008
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                        Hi Nate,

                        Thank you for the explanation of the three types of functionality in
                        Grids. Now I see what was standing there all the time in the Grids
                        documentation:).

                        But still it's hard for me to see a way how to realize my existing
                        (YAML) layout with Grids. Here's an ASCII visualization of YAML's
                        basic flexible layouts:

                        * @see
                        http://www.yaml.de/en/documentation/css-components/base-stylesheet.html
                        *
                        * |-------------------------------|
                        * | #header |
                        * |-------------------------------|
                        * | #col1 | #col3 | #col2 |
                        * | 200 px | flexible | 200px |
                        * |-------------------------------|
                        * | #footer |
                        * |-------------------------------|

                        this is already a modification of the base.css:

                        * |-------------------------------|
                        * | #header |
                        * |-------------------------------|
                        * | #col1 | #col3 | #col2 |
                        * | 25% | flexible | 25% |
                        * |-------------------------------|
                        * | #footer |
                        * |-------------------------------|

                        You can see my playground here: www.szatanik.eu, though there's
                        nothing styled with Grids yet. Just a try with "YUI menu" which has
                        some problems with the z-index I suppose.

                        What I also like about the YAML layout, the document's width is
                        defined by a max- and min-width (with flexible columns inside), what
                        allows scaling the doc when using the zoom and setting two limits for
                        increase. When zooming the doc doesn't get bigger than the viewport
                        which happens in the Grids examples. On the other hand choosing a
                        Grids doc based on %, the doc doesn't change the size when zooming.

                        Returning to my problem, what do you think about a realization of one
                        of the examples above with Grids?

                        Cheers, Klaudiusz
                      • Klaudiusz Szatanik
                        Hi Nate, I think you already answered more or less a similar question here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/25024 It should be
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 18, 2008
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                          Hi Nate,

                          I think you already answered more or less a similar question here:

                          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/25024

                          "It should be possible for you to modify that part of the code to
                          create other widths, and to use similar techniques to nest a
                          one-fixed-one-fluid structure within the one-fixed-one-fluid structure
                          provided by the Template Presents, but this is not something Grids CSS
                          supports out of the box."

                          Cheers, Klaudiusz
                        • Nate Koechley
                          That s it, yes. Thanks for digging that up and reporting for the group s benefit. Thanks, Nate
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 18, 2008
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                            That's it, yes. Thanks for digging that up and reporting for the
                            group's benefit.

                            Thanks,
                            Nate

                            On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Klaudiusz Szatanik wrote:

                            > Hi Nate,
                            >
                            > I think you already answered more or less a similar question here:
                            >
                            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/25024
                            >
                            > "It should be possible for you to modify that part of the code to
                            > create other widths, and to use similar techniques to nest a
                            > one-fixed-one-fluid structure within the one-fixed-one-fluid structure
                            > provided by the Template Presents, but this is not something Grids CSS
                            > supports out of the box."
                            >
                            > Cheers, Klaudiusz
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • klaudiusz szatanik
                            I think I get it now: 1. case – two fix columns on the right and left: e.g. left and right columns fix with a width of 180px: here I have to nest yui-t4
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 18, 2008
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                              I think I get it now:

                              1. case – two fix columns on the right and left: 
                              e.g. left and right columns fix with a width of 180px:
                              here I have to nest "yui-t4" within the "yui-main"-container of "yui-t2"...
                              I should be also able to create my own templates with desired fix-column-width.

                              2. case – two flexible columns on the right and left:
                              e.g. left and right columns have both 25% of the document-width:
                              here I have to nest "yui-gc" within "yui-gf"...

                              Is this the right way? I'll try it out.

                              Cheers, Klaudiusz

                               
                              Am 18.03.2008 um 22:19 schrieb Nate Koechley:

                              That's it, yes. Thanks for digging that up and reporting for the 
                              group's benefit.

                              Thanks,
                              Nate

                              On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Klaudiusz Szatanik wrote:

                              > Hi Nate,
                              >
                              > I think you already answered more or less a similar question here:
                              >
                              > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ ydn-javascript/ message/25024
                              >
                              > "It should be possible for you to modify that part of the code to
                              > create other widths, and to use similar techniques to nest a
                              > one-fixed-one- fluid structure within the one-fixed-one- fluid structure
                              > provided by the Template Presents, but this is not something Grids CSS
                              > supports out of the box."
                              >
                              > Cheers, Klaudiusz
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >


                            • Klaudiusz Szatanik
                              I think I get it now: 1. case – two fix columns on the right and left: e.g. left and right columns fix with a width of 180px: here I have to nest yui-t4
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 18, 2008
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                                I think I get it now:

                                1. case – two fix columns on the right and left:
                                e.g. left and right columns fix with a width of 180px:
                                here I have to nest "yui-t4" within the "yui-main"-container of
                                "yui-t2"...
                                I should be also able to create my own templates with desired
                                fix-column-width.

                                2. case – two flexible columns on the right and left:
                                e.g. left and right columns have both 25% of the document-width:
                                here I have to nest "yui-gc" within "yui-gf"...

                                Is this the right way? I'll try it out.

                                Edit: Ok, I have the first problems with nesting a template within
                                another template?

                                Cheers, Klaudiusz
                              • Klaudiusz Szatanik
                                Hi Nate, could you have a look on this example: http://www.szatanik.eu/js/yui_2.5.0/examples/_tests/_1d.html Besides there s a bug (the right column falls down
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 19, 2008
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                                  Hi Nate,

                                  could you have a look on this example:
                                  http://www.szatanik.eu/js/yui_2.5.0/examples/_tests/_1d.html

                                  Besides there's a bug (the right column falls down in FF, in Safari
                                  it's just flickering when resizing the browser's window) I really
                                  don't get the problem. I nested the one .yui-gc grid within the .yui-u
                                  unit of the .yui-gf grid but it doesn't behave the way I supposed it
                                  to do ?

                                  Cheers, Klaudiusz
                                • Klaudiusz Szatanik
                                  Ooops, this is an answer I send with my mail app (mac osx) maybe 2 days ago and finally it arrived. Strange, isn t it? That day I realized that my question
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Mar 20, 2008
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                                    Ooops, this is an answer I send with my mail app (mac osx) maybe 2
                                    days ago and finally it arrived. Strange, isn't it? That day I
                                    realized that my question didn't land in the ydn-javascript group
                                    after I send it away so I started another try through the yahoo
                                    portal. Now there are two equal requests with 24h between them:)...

                                    I thought it would work similar to my css mailinglist but there should
                                    be a difference between a group and a mailinglist. Or is there a
                                    problem with my provider? Was my mail checked by some kind of filters
                                    from yahoo that it took so long to get through?

                                    Cheers, Klaudiusz
                                  • jacobodevera
                                    Hi folks, Based on this answer I tried to modify the t6 template to get a wider sidebar. I did that by overriding some rules: .yui-t6 .yui-b
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 11, 2008
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                                      Hi folks,

                                      Based on this answer I tried to modify the t6 template to get a wider
                                      sidebar. I did that by overriding some rules:

                                      .yui-t6 .yui-b {width:33.84615em,*width: 33.00em;}
                                      .yui-t6 #yui-main .yui-b {margin-right:34.84615em,*margin-right:34.00em;}

                                      This is to get a 440px right hand side block, using the "negative
                                      margins" technique.

                                      I am, however, getting some weird results: every time I try to get a
                                      sidebar wider than 25em, it does not appear by the side of the main
                                      column, but BELOW it (still on the right hand side, though). I've also
                                      tried to give the main column a wider right margin, just in case it
                                      was some kind of div "collision", but I got the same results.

                                      I've set an example page where this can be observed:
                                      http://stuff.jacobodevera.com/yui/template6.html

                                      Any suggestions on what can be the cause of this behaviour?

                                      Thanks,
                                      Jake


                                      --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, Nate Koechley <natek@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hey Howard,
                                      >
                                      > 1) Yes, this is the right place to ask about all things YUI, including
                                      > the CSS Foundation.
                                      >
                                      > 2) Base is a convenience file that puts back -- in a normalized way --
                                      > some of the stuff that Reset takes away. You can use it anywhere you
                                      > please, but often it is redundant since it's unlikely that the font
                                      > size it defines for headers, for instance, is the exact size your
                                      > project calls for.
                                      >
                                      > Many people use Base as a "snippets library" to see, for example. how
                                      > to put bullets back on unordered list items.
                                      >
                                      > Other people use Base when they want readable basic HTML. Sometimes I
                                      > take write or take notes in HTML format, and find it useful to add
                                      > Base to the page for a simple readable format.
                                      >
                                      > 3) This isn't supported feature, but because it's CSS you, of course,
                                      > able to overwrite the declarations. The "preset templates" use
                                      > "negative margins" as you can see here in a snippet from the file:
                                      >
                                      > .yui-t1 .yui-b {float:left;width:12.30769em;*width:12.00em;}
                                      > .yui-t1 #yui-main .yui-b{margin-left:13.30769em;*margin-left:13.05em;}
                                      >
                                      > The arithmetic for getting the width-in-ems is the same as when
                                      > customizing page width. That formula, as well as a reminder that
                                      > you'll need to set one width for non-IE then another width for IE is
                                      > on this page:
                                      >
                                      > http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/#custom_page_width
                                      >
                                      > 4) I'm not exactly sure what your fourth question is. Can you provide
                                      > more detail?
                                      >
                                      > Thanks,
                                      > Nate
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Mar 4, 2008, at 6:44 AM, howard chen wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Hello,
                                      > >
                                      > > Some questions about YUI CSS,
                                      > >
                                      > > 1. Is this group (ydn-javascript) the right place for asking Grid CSS
                                      > > questions? I can't find any other place...
                                      > >
                                      > > 2. When should base.css should be used? I think most sites (including
                                      > > Yahoo) are not using base.css
                                      > >
                                      > > 3. Is it possible to have custom column width when using grids.css ?
                                      > > E.g. in http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/, you can adjust
                                      > > the width of doc, but not the columns...seems not that flexible
                                      > >
                                      > > 4. Should be progress with the grid building (nested DIV) until no
                                      > > further DIV are being used?
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks.
                                      > >
                                      > > Howard.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
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