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Re: [ydn-javascript] Microsoft....

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  • WongTseng
    I like YUI, and I don t know what it would be like if Microsoft take over it. Maybe we should call it MUI- Microsoft User Interace instead then. ... -- Best
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008
      I like YUI, and I don't know what it would be like if Microsoft take over it. Maybe we should call it MUI-'Microsoft User Interace' instead then.

      2008/2/2, jcarlson23 <jcarlson23@...>:

      Just curious to see what others thought but any opinions on the
      possible Microsoft takeover and what that might mean to YUI? I'm not
      sure not much immediately, but YUI being (what I consider) an
      excellent open source library and Microsoft's pension to stand against
      open source software - I'm not in favor. Also, what has Microsoft
      done lately. I love the Mac commercials about downgrading from
      "Vista" to XP. To me Microsoft is just trying to use business tactics
      to find a way in, rather than be innovative.

      Just wondering what anyone else thought...




      --
      Best Regards
      Wong Tseng
    • Neil Erdwien
      I hate to be a cynic, but I bet it ll be the end of the beginning for YUI. I would expect that within a year or two the Flash components will be replaced with
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008
        I hate to be a cynic, but I bet it'll be the end of the beginning for
        YUI. I would expect that within a year or two the Flash components will
        be replaced with Silverlight. Then some other components will be
        require Silverlight -- perhaps just for enhanced functionality.

        Then IE 8 will be supported before being released. Safari will be
        supported after a 6 month delay. The iPhone won't be supported, but
        various Windows CE devices will be.

        Then some components will come, for your convenience, with server-side
        code that happens to assume IIS.

        Perhaps YUI would be merged with Atlas or ASP.NET AJAX.

        I wouldn't expect an termination announcement for YUI. But over time to
        be subsumed by Microsoft technologies.

        At the end of the day, it just isn't in Microsoft's interest to have a
        library like YUI that is functional, useful, and doesn't require other
        Microsoft technologies for optimum operation. And there are a billion
        subtle ways of tying to Microsoft technologies.


        jcarlson23 wrote:
        >
        >
        > Just curious to see what others thought but any opinions on the
        > possible Microsoft takeover and what that might mean to YUI? I'm not
        > sure not much immediately, but YUI being (what I consider) an
        > excellent open source library and Microsoft's pension to stand against
        > open source software - I'm not in favor. Also, what has Microsoft
        > done lately. I love the Mac commercials about downgrading from
        > "Vista" to XP. To me Microsoft is just trying to use business tactics
        > to find a way in, rather than be innovative.
        >
        > Just wondering what anyone else thought...

        --
        Neil Erdwien, neil@..., 785-532-4905
        Acting Associate Director / Web Technologies Manager
        Computing and Telecommunications Services, Kansas State University
      • Charles
        At the end of the day, it just isn t in Microsoft s interest to have a library like YUI that is functional, useful, and doesn t require other Microsoft
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008

          At the end of the day, it just isn't in Microsoft's interest to have a library like YUI that is functional, useful, and doesn't require other Microsoft technologies for optimum operation.

           

          Folks, please don’t start this kind of stuff.

           

          It’s more likely that Microsoft bought Yahoo! because it’s trying to woo a webdeveloper audience that has embraced YUI, Yahoo!’s various web APIs, etc. (Not to mention that Yahoo!’s properties depend on YUI.)

           

          Let’s give the Yahoo! folks here a break. They can’t comment on this, and premature negativity certainly won’t want to make them spend more time here, so let’s just support them.

           

          — Charles

           

        • jcarlson23
          First, let s remember that Microsoft offered to buy, Yahoo hasn t sold yet. Personally I think one of the biggest problems Microsoft has had over the past 5
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 2, 2008
            First, let's remember that Microsoft offered to buy, Yahoo hasn't sold
            yet.

            Personally I think one of the biggest problems Microsoft has had over
            the past 5 years is embracing the open source community. Look at
            Apple - their OS is BSD UNIX. I've met a few folks there and tried to
            argue that they should open up even more, especially for devices like
            the iPhone as Apple makes money by actually selling the device and
            letting third party companies make more software for the iPhone which
            translates into more sales. Apple is dragging their feet a bit but I
            know there are a number of folks inside who are fighting to open up
            even more.

            I think even Microsoft knows open source is here to stay but and this
            is the reason I asked, I don't think they've done very well with the
            open source community. Maybe this would be different...

            To me Yahoo has a lot to gain to continue supporting YUI. Of course,
            there is goodwill with developers. But I think more importantly as
            YUI is incorporated into more websites the look and feel of those
            sites becomes more like Yahoo. There's a tremendous "user comfort"
            advantage to be gained as well as hopefully we should contributing
            back to YUI and supporting the Yahoo developers - if they share we
            should share and that collaboration might make YUI (and Yahoo) more
            innovative.

            So my opinion - I think it's important once in a while to step back
            and remember why these open source libraries can be so successful and
            that discussion should be very supportive of everyone involved - and
            certainly the Yahoo folks - might give them some them some ammunition
            in a meeting.



            --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <lists07@...> wrote:
            >
            > At the end of the day, it just isn't in Microsoft's interest to have a
            > library like YUI that is functional, useful, and doesn't require other
            > Microsoft technologies for optimum operation.
            >
            >
            >
            > Folks, please don't start this kind of stuff.
            >
            >
            >
            > It's more likely that Microsoft bought Yahoo! because it's trying to
            woo a
            > webdeveloper audience that has embraced YUI, Yahoo!'s various web
            APIs, etc.
            > (Not to mention that Yahoo!'s properties depend on YUI.)
            >
            >
            >
            > Let's give the Yahoo! folks here a break. They can't comment on
            this, and
            > premature negativity certainly won't want to make them spend more
            time here,
            > so let's just support them.
            >
            >
            >
            > - Charles
            >
          • Del
            Why would Microsoft want to continue fueling YUI when they have Silverlight? What benefit would there be for Microsoft? None. They have pumped millions into
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 2, 2008
              Why would Microsoft want to continue fueling YUI when they have
              Silverlight?

              What benefit would there be for Microsoft? None.

              They have pumped millions into Silverlight so far. They are pushing
              hard to make developers use Silverlight. They want to make
              Silverlight the next Flash.

              So by supporting two different projects that serve the same purpose
              would be duplication of services and an unnecessary cost to their
              shareholders.

              I, too, hate to sound pessimistic. But I fear this is the end of YUI.

              I love YUI. I jumped ship from Ext/Dojo/Mootools a couple of years
              ago when I discovered YUI. I have been using YUI for everything. It
              sucks that I will be orphaned again.

              I suggest you download the latest version of YUI to your box before
              Microsoft takes it away.

              This is so sad. Bye bye Yahoo.
            • Philip
              It s pretty obvious why MS has had trouble embracing the open source community. MS is a software company, backed by Office and its Windows OSes. MS does not
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 2, 2008
                It's pretty obvious why MS has had trouble embracing the open source
                community. MS is a software company, backed by Office and its Windows
                OSes. MS does not know how to embrace open source because it is in
                their best interests / share holders interests that people remain
                dependent on these two key products. This why every attempt from MS to
                embrace open source has failed as they've done nothing by tried to
                hook people on these products one way or another.

                I'm sorry, can't be optimistic here either. I'm with the others on
                this message thread. MS buying out Yahoo spells an impending doom for
                YUI. We've already seem MS's attempts at web standards on IE7. AND
                lets not forget their /current/ attempts in IE8: "IE8 will support web
                standards, but you must add in an additional meta tag in order for IE8
                to work." WTF is that?! It's extremely obvious MS does not understand
                open source / web standards, period.

                It's sad, too. There's so much MS can do in their current position to
                insure their success in the future of the web. Unfortunately, their
                focus on closed source products, pushing their products and dependency
                on Windows and Office keeps them bind to these possibilities.


                --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "jcarlson23" <jcarlson23@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > First, let's remember that Microsoft offered to buy, Yahoo hasn't sold
                > yet.
                >
                > Personally I think one of the biggest problems Microsoft has had over
                > the past 5 years is embracing the open source community. Look at
                > Apple - their OS is BSD UNIX. I've met a few folks there and tried to
                > argue that they should open up even more, especially for devices like
                > the iPhone as Apple makes money by actually selling the device and
                > letting third party companies make more software for the iPhone which
                > translates into more sales. Apple is dragging their feet a bit but I
                > know there are a number of folks inside who are fighting to open up
                > even more.
                >
                > I think even Microsoft knows open source is here to stay but and this
                > is the reason I asked, I don't think they've done very well with the
                > open source community. Maybe this would be different...
                >
                > To me Yahoo has a lot to gain to continue supporting YUI. Of course,
                > there is goodwill with developers. But I think more importantly as
                > YUI is incorporated into more websites the look and feel of those
                > sites becomes more like Yahoo. There's a tremendous "user comfort"
                > advantage to be gained as well as hopefully we should contributing
                > back to YUI and supporting the Yahoo developers - if they share we
                > should share and that collaboration might make YUI (and Yahoo) more
                > innovative.
                >
                > So my opinion - I think it's important once in a while to step back
                > and remember why these open source libraries can be so successful and
                > that discussion should be very supportive of everyone involved - and
                > certainly the Yahoo folks - might give them some them some ammunition
                > in a meeting.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <lists07@> wrote:
                > >
                > > At the end of the day, it just isn't in Microsoft's interest to have a
                > > library like YUI that is functional, useful, and doesn't require other
                > > Microsoft technologies for optimum operation.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Folks, please don't start this kind of stuff.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > It's more likely that Microsoft bought Yahoo! because it's trying to
                > woo a
                > > webdeveloper audience that has embraced YUI, Yahoo!'s various web
                > APIs, etc.
                > > (Not to mention that Yahoo!'s properties depend on YUI.)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Let's give the Yahoo! folks here a break. They can't comment on
                > this, and
                > > premature negativity certainly won't want to make them spend more
                > time here,
                > > so let's just support them.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > - Charles
                > >
                >
              • Hollywood
                Two words: Chicken Little
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 2, 2008
                  Two words: Chicken Little
                • ajaxgames
                  Agreed, most likely MS will not continue with YUI in the current direction and even if it does for a while I wouldn t want to invest much in a technology that
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 2, 2008
                    Agreed, most likely MS will not continue with YUI in the current
                    direction and even if it does for a while I wouldn't want to invest
                    much in a technology that has a good chance of disappearing or not
                    being supported in the near future.

                    But, on the other hand, even if YUI is discontinued by MS/Yahoo I am
                    pretty sure it will be picked up by the OS community and take it from
                    there. Sure, it won't have all the Yahoo resources behind it and
                    releases may come slower but it will work like all other OS community
                    projects. Maybe we will see more than one successful forks.

                    Oh well, first MySQL now YUI, someone buys apache and I might as well
                    move to a Windows server and be done with it :P


                    --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "Del" <dhanoad@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Why would Microsoft want to continue fueling YUI when they have
                    > Silverlight?
                    >
                    > What benefit would there be for Microsoft? None.
                    >
                    > They have pumped millions into Silverlight so far. They are pushing
                    > hard to make developers use Silverlight. They want to make
                    > Silverlight the next Flash.
                    >
                    > So by supporting two different projects that serve the same purpose
                    > would be duplication of services and an unnecessary cost to their
                    > shareholders.
                    >
                    > I, too, hate to sound pessimistic. But I fear this is the end of
                    YUI.
                    >
                    > I love YUI. I jumped ship from Ext/Dojo/Mootools a couple of years
                    > ago when I discovered YUI. I have been using YUI for everything.
                    It
                    > sucks that I will be orphaned again.
                    >
                    > I suggest you download the latest version of YUI to your box before
                    > Microsoft takes it away.
                    >
                    > This is so sad. Bye bye Yahoo.
                    >
                  • Del
                    now I just feel dirty 2 minutes after news broke that Yahoo! rejected the Microsoft bid and I feel like a cheat. Last week I was contemplating moving to
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 9, 2008
                      now I just feel dirty

                      2 minutes after news broke that Yahoo! rejected the Microsoft bid and
                      I feel like a cheat.

                      Last week I was contemplating moving to another UI kit (JQuery,
                      actually)... now I think I may have made a mistake.



                      - D
                      http://www.gabbr.com
                    • Randall R Schulz
                      ... Just by contemplating a change? There s a saying: No harm, no foul. If no harmful consequence of an action ensued, then no offense was committed. Now,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 9, 2008
                        On Saturday 09 February 2008 15:24, Del wrote:
                        > now I just feel dirty
                        >
                        > 2 minutes after news broke that Yahoo! rejected the Microsoft bid and
                        > I feel like a cheat.
                        >
                        > Last week I was contemplating moving to another UI kit (JQuery,
                        > actually)... now I think I may have made a mistake.

                        Just by contemplating a change? There's a saying: "No harm, no foul." If
                        no harmful consequence of an action ensued, then no offense was
                        committed.

                        Now, had you ripped up your source and started porting everything over
                        to your second-choice UI kit, that would have been a mistake, but
                        still, only you would suffer.


                        Randall Schulz
                      • exuperok
                        It is unlikely that MS will support initiatives like YDN and its numerous projects, so is it possible that the OS community could take over the open source
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 12, 2008
                          It is unlikely that MS will support initiatives like YDN and its
                          numerous projects, so is it possible that the OS community could take
                          over the open source stuff at YDN... or could there even be a spin off
                          scenario like the mozilla foundation after MS killed netscape in a
                          deal with its parent company?

                          --- In ydn-javascript@yahoogroups.com, "jcarlson23" <jcarlson23@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Just curious to see what others thought but any opinions on the
                          > possible Microsoft takeover and what that might mean to YUI? I'm not
                          > sure not much immediately, but YUI being (what I consider) an
                          > excellent open source library and Microsoft's pension to stand against
                          > open source software - I'm not in favor. Also, what has Microsoft
                          > done lately. I love the Mac commercials about downgrading from
                          > "Vista" to XP. To me Microsoft is just trying to use business tactics
                          > to find a way in, rather than be innovative.
                          >
                          > Just wondering what anyone else thought...
                          >
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