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Re: [yankee30] Which toilet?

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  • Justin Craig
    I ve looked into the Airhead myself. I d like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400. Can you cut the molded in riser out? I
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 30, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I've looked into the Airhead myself. I'd like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400.
       
      Can you cut the molded in riser out?
      I installed hefty mounting plates for all my thru-hulls. I had to notch out my riser to make it fit. I don't see why you can cut the whole thing out and glass in a base lower. 

      For my current install, $ is tight, I have a marine head, and thru-hulls so I'm using them. For the holding tank, I'm going with 8" PVC pipe that will run the lenght of the vee berth tucked up high, turning down 12" and the bow end, then running 3/4 of the way back to the pump out end. 
       
       
      Info on PVC tank: 
       

      PVC holding tank

      I was intrigued by the holding tank made from large diameter PVC pipe ("An ingenious holding tank," September 2010). I wish there had been more detail in the article. I understand gluing end caps on a length of pipe, but how did he install the inlet, vent fitting and pump-out outlet in the end caps and tubing wall?

      It seems to me that in the design of many good old boats, it was assumed that the head would be pumped overboard. Thus, generally one must be very creative to find a way to install adequately sized holding tanks. In the case of my Coronado 35, this would require cutting larger openings in the fiberglass liner to get a tank bigger than about 12 gallons in. I have an old Monomatic electric recirculating head now, but as no repair parts are available, someday I will have to replace it with something different. I have installed a 12-gallon tank under my aft cabin berth, which, along with a macerator pump, allows me to empty and recharge the head while away from the dock. An article on the basics of installing holding systems would be of interest to me.
      Mike Montesinos

      Gregg Nestor responds

      It's always good to know that someone's reading my work. Thanks for your interest in my article. Unfortunately, it was almost exactly two years ago that I met and briefly visited with Thaddeus, the gentleman who had built the PVC pipe holding tank. Relying on memory, I do know that the three fittings (fill, pumpout, and vent) were glued into holes that were drilled into the pipe and/or end caps. I don't know whether they were also tapped before gluing. It would probably depend upon the wall thickness of the PVC components. Recalling how shipshape everything was on board his boat, it wouldn't surprise me that the fittings were both tapped and glued.
      Due to your request, I have written an article for a future issue of Good Old Boat on installing a holding tank. You're right that this is an important owner modification for many good old boats. Thanks for the suggestion.
      Gregg Nestor



      On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
       

      Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
       

      --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:

      From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
      Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
      To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM


       

      Hi guys,

      I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.

      My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d

      I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.

      I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.

      Some specific questions:

      * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?

      * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.

      * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?

      * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?

      * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?

      Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.

      Cheers,
      Carson


    • David
      I looked at your website and saw the standpipe exhaust.  My Yankee had one and it developed a leak in the inner exhaust pipe and allowed salt water to run
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 30, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I looked at your website and saw the standpipe exhaust.  My Yankee had one and it developed a leak in the inner exhaust pipe and allowed salt water to run back into the engine and froze (ruined) the engine.  Two solutions: to prevent that from happening, install a T in the exhaust between the engine and the standpipe with a valve to open when the engine is shut down to allow any leakage to drain into the bilge or provide a drain from where the salt water enters the standpipe and drain the water out when the engine is shut down into the head. 
         

        --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Justin Craig <endeavor64@...> wrote:

        From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
        Subject: Re: [yankee30] Which toilet?
        To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 11:03 AM

         

        I've looked into the Airhead myself. I'd like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400.
         
        Can you cut the molded in riser out?
        I installed hefty mounting plates for all my thru-hulls. I had to notch out my riser to make it fit. I don't see why you can cut the whole thing out and glass in a base lower. 

        For my current install, $ is tight, I have a marine head, and thru-hulls so I'm using them. For the holding tank, I'm going with 8" PVC pipe that will run the lenght of the vee berth tucked up high, turning down 12" and the bow end, then running 3/4 of the way back to the pump out end. 
         
         
        Info on PVC tank: 
         

        PVC holding tank

        I was intrigued by the holding tank made from large diameter PVC pipe ("An ingenious holding tank," September 2010). I wish there had been more detail in the article. I understand gluing end caps on a length of pipe, but how did he install the inlet, vent fitting and pump-out outlet in the end caps and tubing wall?

        It seems to me that in the design of many good old boats, it was assumed that the head would be pumped overboard. Thus, generally one must be very creative to find a way to install adequately sized holding tanks. In the case of my Coronado 35, this would require cutting larger openings in the fiberglass liner to get a tank bigger than about 12 gallons in. I have an old Monomatic electric recirculating head now, but as no repair parts are available, someday I will have to replace it with something different. I have installed a 12-gallon tank under my aft cabin berth, which, along with a macerator pump, allows me to empty and recharge the head while away from the dock. An article on the basics of installing holding systems would be of interest to me.
        Mike Montesinos

        Gregg Nestor responds

        It's always good to know that someone's reading my work. Thanks for your interest in my article. Unfortunately, it was almost exactly two years ago that I met and briefly visited with Thaddeus, the gentleman who had built the PVC pipe holding tank. Relying on memory, I do know that the three fittings (fill, pumpout, and vent) were glued into holes that were drilled into the pipe and/or end caps. I don't know whether they were also tapped before gluing. It would probably depend upon the wall thickness of the PVC components. Recalling how shipshape everything was on board his boat, it wouldn't surprise me that the fittings were both tapped and glued.
        Due to your request, I have written an article for a future issue of Good Old Boat on installing a holding tank. You're right that this is an important owner modification for many good old boats. Thanks for the suggestion.
        Gregg Nestor



        On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
         

        Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
         

        --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:

        From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
        Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
        To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM


         

        Hi guys,

        I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.

        My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d

        I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.

        I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.

        Some specific questions:

        * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?

        * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.

        * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?

        * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?

        * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?

        Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.

        Cheers,
        Carson


      • Justin Craig
        thanks for the tip.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 30, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          thanks for the tip.

          On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:23 AM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
           

          I looked at your website and saw the standpipe exhaust.  My Yankee had one and it developed a leak in the inner exhaust pipe and allowed salt water to run back into the engine and froze (ruined) the engine.  Two solutions: to prevent that from happening, install a T in the exhaust between the engine and the standpipe with a valve to open when the engine is shut down to allow any leakage to drain into the bilge or provide a drain from where the salt water enters the standpipe and drain the water out when the engine is shut down into the head. 
           

          --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Justin Craig <endeavor64@...> wrote:

          From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
          Subject: Re: [yankee30] Which toilet?
          To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 11:03 AM

           

          I've looked into the Airhead myself. I'd like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400.
           
          Can you cut the molded in riser out?
          I installed hefty mounting plates for all my thru-hulls. I had to notch out my riser to make it fit. I don't see why you can cut the whole thing out and glass in a base lower. 

          For my current install, $ is tight, I have a marine head, and thru-hulls so I'm using them. For the holding tank, I'm going with 8" PVC pipe that will run the lenght of the vee berth tucked up high, turning down 12" and the bow end, then running 3/4 of the way back to the pump out end. 
           
           
          Info on PVC tank: 
           

          PVC holding tank

          I was intrigued by the holding tank made from large diameter PVC pipe ("An ingenious holding tank," September 2010). I wish there had been more detail in the article. I understand gluing end caps on a length of pipe, but how did he install the inlet, vent fitting and pump-out outlet in the end caps and tubing wall?

          It seems to me that in the design of many good old boats, it was assumed that the head would be pumped overboard. Thus, generally one must be very creative to find a way to install adequately sized holding tanks. In the case of my Coronado 35, this would require cutting larger openings in the fiberglass liner to get a tank bigger than about 12 gallons in. I have an old Monomatic electric recirculating head now, but as no repair parts are available, someday I will have to replace it with something different. I have installed a 12-gallon tank under my aft cabin berth, which, along with a macerator pump, allows me to empty and recharge the head while away from the dock. An article on the basics of installing holding systems would be of interest to me.
          Mike Montesinos

          Gregg Nestor responds

          It's always good to know that someone's reading my work. Thanks for your interest in my article. Unfortunately, it was almost exactly two years ago that I met and briefly visited with Thaddeus, the gentleman who had built the PVC pipe holding tank. Relying on memory, I do know that the three fittings (fill, pumpout, and vent) were glued into holes that were drilled into the pipe and/or end caps. I don't know whether they were also tapped before gluing. It would probably depend upon the wall thickness of the PVC components. Recalling how shipshape everything was on board his boat, it wouldn't surprise me that the fittings were both tapped and glued.
          Due to your request, I have written an article for a future issue of Good Old Boat on installing a holding tank. You're right that this is an important owner modification for many good old boats. Thanks for the suggestion.
          Gregg Nestor



          On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
           

          Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
           

          --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:

          From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
          Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
          To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM


           

          Hi guys,

          I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.

          My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d

          I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.

          I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.

          Some specific questions:

          * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?

          * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.

          * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?

          * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?

          * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?

          Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.

          Cheers,
          Carson



        • David
             I was told it wasn t the salt water that ate a hole in the copper pipe but the exhaust going through it.  You should be very careful if your standpipe is
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 30, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
               I was told it wasn't the salt water that ate a hole in the copper pipe but the exhaust going through it.  You should be very careful if your standpipe is old.

            From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
            Subject: Re: [yankee30] standpipe exhaust
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 2:36 PM

             

            thanks for the tip.

            On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:23 AM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
             

            I looked at your website and saw the standpipe exhaust.  My Yankee had one and it developed a leak in the inner exhaust pipe and allowed salt water to run back into the engine and froze (ruined) the engine.  Two solutions: to prevent that from happening, install a T in the exhaust between the engine and the standpipe with a valve to open when the engine is shut down to allow any leakage to drain into the bilge or provide a drain from where the salt water enters the standpipe and drain the water out when the engine is shut down into the head. 
             

            --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Justin Craig <endeavor64@...> wrote:

            From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
            Subject: Re: [yankee30] Which toilet?
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 11:03 AM

             

            I've looked into the Airhead myself. I'd like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400.
             
            Can you cut the molded in riser out?
            I installed hefty mounting plates for all my thru-hulls. I had to notch out my riser to make it fit. I don't see why you can cut the whole thing out and glass in a base lower. 

            For my current install, $ is tight, I have a marine head, and thru-hulls so I'm using them. For the holding tank, I'm going with 8" PVC pipe that will run the lenght of the vee berth tucked up high, turning down 12" and the bow end, then running 3/4 of the way back to the pump out end. 
             
             
            Info on PVC tank: 
             

            PVC holding tank

            I was intrigued by the holding tank made from large diameter PVC pipe ("An ingenious holding tank," September 2010). I wish there had been more detail in the article. I understand gluing end caps on a length of pipe, but how did he install the inlet, vent fitting and pump-out outlet in the end caps and tubing wall?

            It seems to me that in the design of many good old boats, it was assumed that the head would be pumped overboard. Thus, generally one must be very creative to find a way to install adequately sized holding tanks. In the case of my Coronado 35, this would require cutting larger openings in the fiberglass liner to get a tank bigger than about 12 gallons in. I have an old Monomatic electric recirculating head now, but as no repair parts are available, someday I will have to replace it with something different. I have installed a 12-gallon tank under my aft cabin berth, which, along with a macerator pump, allows me to empty and recharge the head while away from the dock. An article on the basics of installing holding systems would be of interest to me.
            Mike Montesinos

            Gregg Nestor responds

            It's always good to know that someone's reading my work. Thanks for your interest in my article. Unfortunately, it was almost exactly two years ago that I met and briefly visited with Thaddeus, the gentleman who had built the PVC pipe holding tank. Relying on memory, I do know that the three fittings (fill, pumpout, and vent) were glued into holes that were drilled into the pipe and/or end caps. I don't know whether they were also tapped before gluing. It would probably depend upon the wall thickness of the PVC components. Recalling how shipshape everything was on board his boat, it wouldn't surprise me that the fittings were both tapped and glued.
            Due to your request, I have written an article for a future issue of Good Old Boat on installing a holding tank. You're right that this is an important owner modification for many good old boats. Thanks for the suggestion.
            Gregg Nestor



            On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
             

            Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
             

            --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:

            From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
            Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM


             

            Hi guys,

            I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.

            My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d

            I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.

            I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.

            Some specific questions:

            * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?

            * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.

            * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?

            * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?

            * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?

            Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.

            Cheers,
            Carson



          • Peter Jones
            I got rid of the old standpipe and went with a small waterlift under the engine. You can see the raw water hose with exhaust going into it from the engine
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 30, 2011
            • 1 Attachment
            • 1.1 MB

            I got rid of the old standpipe and went with a small waterlift under the engine. You can see the raw water hose with exhaust going into it from the engine manifold. . What you cannot see is the hose under the engine which the exhaust water goes through from the water lift to a vented loop on the head side of the bulkhead where the old standpipe used to be and then out the usual way to the stern.

             

            Peter Jones

            Peter Jones Computer Consulting

            peterlwj@...

            415-752-7239

            415-987-7239 cell

             

            From: yankee30@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yankee30@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
            Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:38 PM
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [yankee30] standpipe exhaust

             

             

               I was told it wasn't the salt water that ate a hole in the copper pipe but the exhaust going through it.  You should be very careful if your standpipe is old.


            From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
            Subject: Re: [yankee30] standpipe exhaust
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 2:36 PM

             

            thanks for the tip.

            On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:23 AM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:

             

            I looked at your website and saw the standpipe exhaust.  My Yankee had one and it developed a leak in the inner exhaust pipe and allowed salt water to run back into the engine and froze (ruined) the engine.  Two solutions: to prevent that from happening, install a T in the exhaust between the engine and the standpipe with a valve to open when the engine is shut down to allow any leakage to drain into the bilge or provide a drain from where the salt water enters the standpipe and drain the water out when the engine is shut down into the head. 
             

            --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Justin Craig <endeavor64@...> wrote:


            From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
            Subject: Re: [yankee30] Which toilet?
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 11:03 AM

             

            I've looked into the Airhead myself. I'd like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400.

             

            Can you cut the molded in riser out?
            I installed hefty mounting plates for all my thru-hulls. I had to notch out my riser to make it fit. I don't see why you can cut the whole thing out and glass in a base lower. 

            For my current install, $ is tight, I have a marine head, and thru-hulls so I'm using them. For the holding tank, I'm going with 8" PVC pipe that will run the lenght of the vee berth tucked up high, turning down 12" and the bow end, then running 3/4 of the way back to the pump out end. 

             

             

            Info on PVC tank: 
             

            PVC holding tank

            I was intrigued by the holding tank made from large diameter PVC pipe ("An ingenious holding tank," September 2010). I wish there had been more detail in the article. I understand gluing end caps on a length of pipe, but how did he install the inlet, vent fitting and pump-out outlet in the end caps and tubing wall?

            It seems to me that in the design of many good old boats, it was assumed that the head would be pumped overboard. Thus, generally one must be very creative to find a way to install adequately sized holding tanks. In the case of my Coronado 35, this would require cutting larger openings in the fiberglass liner to get a tank bigger than about 12 gallons in. I have an old Monomatic electric recirculating head now, but as no repair parts are available, someday I will have to replace it with something different. I have installed a 12-gallon tank under my aft cabin berth, which, along with a macerator pump, allows me to empty and recharge the head while away from the dock. An article on the basics of installing holding systems would be of interest to me.
            Mike Montesinos

            Gregg Nestor responds

            It's always good to know that someone's reading my work. Thanks for your interest in my article. Unfortunately, it was almost exactly two years ago that I met and briefly visited with Thaddeus, the gentleman who had built the PVC pipe holding tank. Relying on memory, I do know that the three fittings (fill, pumpout, and vent) were glued into holes that were drilled into the pipe and/or end caps. I don't know whether they were also tapped before gluing. It would probably depend upon the wall thickness of the PVC components. Recalling how shipshape everything was on board his boat, it wouldn't surprise me that the fittings were both tapped and glued.
            Due to your request, I have written an article for a future issue of Good Old Boat on installing a holding tank. You're right that this is an important owner modification for many good old boats. Thanks for the suggestion.
            Gregg Nestor

             

            On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:

             

            Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
             

            --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:


            From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
            Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
            To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM

             

             

            Hi guys,

             

            I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.

             

            My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d

             

            I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.

             

            I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.

             

            Some specific questions:

             

            * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?

             

            * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.

             

            * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?

             

            * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?

             

            * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?

             

            Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.

             

            Cheers,

            Carson

          • Owen McCall
            Peter, This is just the solution I used as well. But do you have a loop of some kind in the cooling water feed line? I would worry about a leaking water
            Message 6 of 11 , Jul 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Peter,

              This is just the solution I used as well.  But do you have a loop of some kind in the cooling water feed line?  I would worry about a leaking water intake seacock (or one left open by mistake) slowly filling the exhaust hose and waterlift muffler and then the engine itself.  

              Owen McCall



              , Jun 30, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Peter Jones <peterlwj@...> wrote:
               
              [Attachment(s) from Peter Jones included below]

              I got rid of the old standpipe and went with a small waterlift under the engine. You can see the raw water hose with exhaust going into it from the engine manifold. . What you cannot see is the hose under the engine which the exhaust water goes through from the water lift to a vented loop on the head side of the bulkhead where the old standpipe used to be and then out the usual way to the stern.

               

              Peter Jones

              Peter Jones Computer Consulting

              peterlwj@...

              415-752-7239

              415-987-7239 cell

               

              From: yankee30@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yankee30@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
              Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:38 PM
              To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [yankee30] standpipe exhaust

               

               

                 I was told it wasn't the salt water that ate a hole in the copper pipe but the exhaust going through it.  You should be very careful if your standpipe is old.


              From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
              Subject: Re: [yankee30] standpipe exhaust
              To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 2:36 PM

               

              thanks for the tip.

              On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:23 AM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:

               

              I looked at your website and saw the standpipe exhaust.  My Yankee had one and it developed a leak in the inner exhaust pipe and allowed salt water to run back into the engine and froze (ruined) the engine.  Two solutions: to prevent that from happening, install a T in the exhaust between the engine and the standpipe with a valve to open when the engine is shut down to allow any leakage to drain into the bilge or provide a drain from where the salt water enters the standpipe and drain the water out when the engine is shut down into the head. 
               

              --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Justin Craig <endeavor64@...> wrote:


              From: Justin Craig <endeavor64@...>
              Subject: Re: [yankee30] Which toilet?
              To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 11:03 AM

               

              I've looked into the Airhead myself. I'd like to go that way some day. There was one on Craigslist, new for $400.

               

              Can you cut the molded in riser out?
              I installed hefty mounting plates for all my thru-hulls. I had to notch out my riser to make it fit. I don't see why you can cut the whole thing out and glass in a base lower. 

              For my current install, $ is tight, I have a marine head, and thru-hulls so I'm using them. For the holding tank, I'm going with 8" PVC pipe that will run the lenght of the vee berth tucked up high, turning down 12" and the bow end, then running 3/4 of the way back to the pump out end. 

               

               

              Info on PVC tank: 
               

              PVC holding tank

              I was intrigued by the holding tank made from large diameter PVC pipe ("An ingenious holding tank," September 2010). I wish there had been more detail in the article. I understand gluing end caps on a length of pipe, but how did he install the inlet, vent fitting and pump-out outlet in the end caps and tubing wall?

              It seems to me that in the design of many good old boats, it was assumed that the head would be pumped overboard. Thus, generally one must be very creative to find a way to install adequately sized holding tanks. In the case of my Coronado 35, this would require cutting larger openings in the fiberglass liner to get a tank bigger than about 12 gallons in. I have an old Monomatic electric recirculating head now, but as no repair parts are available, someday I will have to replace it with something different. I have installed a 12-gallon tank under my aft cabin berth, which, along with a macerator pump, allows me to empty and recharge the head while away from the dock. An article on the basics of installing holding systems would be of interest to me.
              Mike Montesinos

              Gregg Nestor responds

              It's always good to know that someone's reading my work. Thanks for your interest in my article. Unfortunately, it was almost exactly two years ago that I met and briefly visited with Thaddeus, the gentleman who had built the PVC pipe holding tank. Relying on memory, I do know that the three fittings (fill, pumpout, and vent) were glued into holes that were drilled into the pipe and/or end caps. I don't know whether they were also tapped before gluing. It would probably depend upon the wall thickness of the PVC components. Recalling how shipshape everything was on board his boat, it wouldn't surprise me that the fittings were both tapped and glued.
              Due to your request, I have written an article for a future issue of Good Old Boat on installing a holding tank. You're right that this is an important owner modification for many good old boats. Thanks for the suggestion.
              Gregg Nestor

               

              On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:

               

              Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
               

              --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:


              From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
              Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
              To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM

               

               

              Hi guys,

               

              I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.

               

              My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d

               

              I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.

               

              I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.

               

              Some specific questions:

               

              * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?

               

              * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.

               

              * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?

               

              * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?

               

              * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?

               

              Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.

               

              Cheers,

              Carson


            • WilliamD
              Hi Carson: First...a question. Exactly what are you doing to the mast in the picture? Secondly, the item in question is called a Head. I have a Groco, and am
              Message 7 of 11 , Jul 1, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Carson:
                First...a question. Exactly what are you doing to the mast in the picture? Secondly, the item in question is called a Head. I have a Groco, and am very happy with it. I don't think a "odor free" head system has been invented. A tall order given the confined spaces and the amount of movement in a small boat. The hoses play a large roll. I installed some of the best, and while they are an improvement, I can't say they are odor free. On non Yankee specific items like a Head, I would recommend a forum such as Sailnet. They have whole threads devoted to nothing but sanitation. Somewhere on the Web, there is even a lady who calls herself "The Head Mistress".
                All the best.
                Bill

                --- In yankee30@yahoogroups.com, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
                >
                > Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
                >  
                >
                > --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
                > Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
                > To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi guys,
                > I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.
                >
                > My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d
                > I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.
                >
                > I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.
                >
                > Some specific questions:
                > * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?
                >
                > * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.
                > * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?
                >
                > * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?
                > * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?
                >
                > Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.
                >
                > Cheers,Carson
                >
              • Owen McCall
                That s Peggy Hall. She has a great book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1892399156/002-5220878-9496823?v=glance&n=283155 Owen ... That s Peggy Hall.  She
                Message 8 of 11 , Jul 1, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  That's Peggy Hall.  She has a great book:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1892399156/002-5220878-9496823?v=glance&n=283155

                  Owen


                  On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:42 PM, WilliamD <WDemeter@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi Carson:
                  First...a question. Exactly what are you doing to the mast in the picture? Secondly, the item in question is called a Head. I have a Groco, and am very happy with it. I don't think a "odor free" head system has been invented. A tall order given the confined spaces and the amount of movement in a small boat. The hoses play a large roll. I installed some of the best, and while they are an improvement, I can't say they are odor free. On non Yankee specific items like a Head, I would recommend a forum such as Sailnet. They have whole threads devoted to nothing but sanitation. Somewhere on the Web, there is even a lady who calls herself "The Head Mistress".
                  All the best.
                  Bill

                  --- In yankee30@yahoogroups.com, David <dvdcnl60@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Some people, including myself, use a bucket with a plastic bag in it.   Off shore just dump it and near shore take it to the marina's restroom.  You can get special camping bags with a deodorizing power or just use kitty litter (my choice).  I took my toilet out and epoxied up the hole in the hull.  
                  >  
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Carson Baker <carson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Carson Baker <carson@...>
                  > Subject: [yankee30] Which toilet?
                  > To: yankee30@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:42 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi guys,
                  > I'm in the middle of a refit and am trying to decide on the type of toilet plumbing I want on board. I've only used a couple of boat toilets before, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what I've read online. The main thing I'm trying to avoid is a smelly boat.
                  >
                  > My boat is hull #85, with an interior arranged like: http://d.pr/jC6d
                  > I realize it's hard to see in this picture, but the base of the toilet is part of the hull liner, raised about 4.75" off the sole. It's a pentagram-looking thing, with dimensions of 8-10" along each edge. I'm sure many of you have the exact same base.
                  >
                  > I'd very much appreciate suggestions on what to put in that space. The upper bound of my budget is $1000. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get a working system that doesn't smell and isn't a maintenance nightmare -- obviously I'd prefer to pay a lot less.
                  >
                  > Some specific questions:
                  > * I'm not sure, but I feel like there's not enough room here for one of the commercial composting toilets (either Nature's Head or Airhead), but if it would fit, that would be my first preference. To save on space, should I try for a DIY composting toilet?
                  >
                  > * Are vacuum flush toilets (Sealand, et al) worth it? Freshwater vacuum-flush and composting toilets seem like the best way to keep odors out, but they sure aren't cheap.
                  > * Where do you keep your holding tank? What kind is it? Why are the flexible tanks so much more expensive, and what's the value in using them?
                  >
                  > * Is a macerator necessary or will a manual pump work okay?
                  > * What are the pitfalls of using the cheapest $125 Johnson/Jabsco/Groco contraption? Am I guaranteed a smelly mess three months down the road?
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance for the replies. Obviously, I don't expect complete answers to all these questions, but I'm just trying to get my head around as many of the issues as possible. I'm particularly interested in various systems that work well on the Yankee 30. Right now I'm using a porta-potty (which isn't half-bad), but my girlfriend would like to take some trips with me, so I'm trying to step up my game.
                  >
                  > Cheers,Carson
                  >


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