Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

XP won't boot with XOSL

Expand Messages
  • justmetheold
    After Installing XP64 on a second HDD and several wrong multiboot attempts, I created new boot.ini files, installed xosl, activated hiding But my windows xp on
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 23, 2006
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      After Installing XP64 on a second HDD and several
      wrong multiboot attempts, I created new boot.ini
      files, installed xosl, activated hiding

      But my windows xp on hd0 drive letter G won't boot
      with xosl...It booted just fine before I got xp64
      and back then I had even 3 hdds
      Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
      xosl fixes it. please help

      *OT sidenote: why just why yahoo, using this forum
      is asking for spam + real forums are so much better*
    • justmetheold
      Any answer would be welcome *sigh*
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 30, 2006
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Any answer would be welcome *sigh*

        --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, "justmetheold" <IfYouKnowHow@W...> wrote:
        >
        > After Installing XP64 on a second HDD and several
        > wrong multiboot attempts, I created new boot.ini
        > files, installed xosl, activated hiding
        >
        > But my windows xp on hd0 drive letter G won't boot
        > with xosl...It booted just fine before I got xp64
        > and back then I had even 3 hdds
        > Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
        > xosl fixes it. please help
        >
        > *OT sidenote: why just why yahoo, using this forum
        > is asking for spam + real forums are so much better*
        >
      • Derek Bingham
        Any Windows messages on start? justmetheold wrote: Any answer would be welcome *sigh* ... To unsubscribe, send email to:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 30, 2006
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Any Windows messages on start?

          justmetheold <IfYouKnowHow@...> wrote:
          Any answer would be welcome *sigh*

          --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, "justmetheold" <IfYouKnowHow@W...> wrote:
          >
          > After Installing XP64 on a second HDD and several
          > wrong multiboot attempts, I created new boot.ini
          > files, installed xosl, activated hiding
          >
          > But my windows xp on hd0 drive letter G won't boot
          > with xosl...It booted just fine before I got xp64
          > and back then I had even 3 hdds
          > Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
          > xosl fixes it. please help
          >
          > *OT sidenote: why just why yahoo, using this forum
          > is asking for spam + real forums are so much better*
          >









          Bring words and photos together (easily) with
          PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
        • Dermot Moynihan
          ... It shouldn t be on G. The fact that it s on G would suggest that other Operating System-bearing partitions are visible. XOSL works best when only one OS is
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 30, 2006
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            justmetheold wrote:
            > Any answer would be welcome *sigh*
            >
            > --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, "justmetheold" <IfYouKnowHow@W...> wrote:
            >
            >>After Installing XP64 on a second HDD and several
            >>wrong multiboot attempts, I created new boot.ini
            >>files, installed xosl, activated hiding
            >>
            >>But my windows xp on hd0 drive letter G won't boot
            >>with xosl...

            It shouldn't be on G. The fact that it's on G would suggest that other
            Operating System-bearing partitions are visible.
            XOSL works best when only one OS is visible at a time.
            Each OS will be on a different partition which will be seen as C.
            Look to your hiding.

            Also, you say that you installed XP64 on your second h/d but you then
            say that its the XP on the first hard drive (hd0) that won't boot.
            So, I'm assuming/guessing that the XP64 boots fine from the second hard
            drive.
            If the hiding does not sort things out you might consider giving a bit
            more info.
            Having to guess is not the way to do this.
            Pulling teeth is better than having them pulled but still a right pain
            in the proverbial.

            It booted just fine before I got xp64
            >>and back then I had even 3 hdds
            >>Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
            >>xosl fixes it.

            So, what boot loader is working when XOSL is removed? NTLDR? This
            doesn't make sense. If NTLDR is doing that job then things are set up
            wrong. XOSL and NTLDR do not work the same way. You don't need to hide
            stuff to use NTLDR. And all OSes are dependent on a solitary C drive.

            please help
            >>
            >>*OT sidenote: why just why yahoo, using this forum
            >>is asking for spam + real forums are so much better*

            huh?

            Dermot
          • justmetheold
            First thanks for the answers ... Long time ago Win95 was C, I added one day WinXP, a new HDD + Xosl. That worked fine, and so xp is not on C. Then I moved the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 31, 2006
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              First thanks for the answers



              --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, Dermot Moynihan <der_moyn@o...> wrote:
              >

              >
              > It shouldn't be on G. The fact that it's on G would suggest that other
              > Operating System-bearing partitions are visible.
              > XOSL works best when only one OS is visible at a time.
              > Each OS will be on a different partition which will be seen as C.
              > Look to your hiding.

              >
              > Also, you say that you installed XP64 on your second h/d but you then
              > say that its the XP on the first hard drive (hd0) that won't boot.
              > So, I'm assuming/guessing that the XP64 boots fine from the second hard
              > drive.
              > If the hiding does not sort things out you might consider giving a bit
              > more info.
              > Having to guess is not the way to do this.
              > Pulling teeth is better than having them pulled but still a right pain
              > in the proverbial.
              >
              > It booted just fine before I got xp64
              > >>and back then I had even 3 hdds
              > >>Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
              > >>xosl fixes it.
              >
              > So, what boot loader is working when XOSL is removed? NTLDR? This
              > doesn't make sense. If NTLDR is doing that job then things are set up
              > wrong. XOSL and NTLDR do not work the same way. You don't need to hide
              > stuff to use NTLDR. And all OSes are dependent on a solitary C drive.

              Long time ago Win95 was C, I added one day WinXP, a new
              HDD + Xosl. That worked fine, and so xp is not on C.
              Then I moved the XP HDD to a new system, xosl was on
              that one too, sill worked fine. Then I added a new
              HDD, and because the new system has a Cardreader
              that suddenly used C+D and drives, the ne partition got the
              highest free number.

              Then I made an Error and Installed without
              hiding XP 64 on that new drive. I had xosl repair problems
              deinstalled it, reinstalled it...it did not boot, win xp
              got stuck. Then I did read a bit...but I'm still not
              sure what the multiboot from xp 64 changed all.

              I realized that this mess will never work...so I resized
              the xp 64 partition to 30gb, added a workdata partition,
              changed the boot.ini files, installed xosl, used hiding.
              Problem: Winxp starts booting, first the black screen
              with the logo + moving bar, then a blue one with logo
              and there it gets stuck
              My guess is that xosl somehow makes the drive letter
              change...but no idea how/why

              Anyway, I removed Xosl and xp boots now

              Because I tend to write it wrong, here my setup:


              HDD1:
              NTFS 53 999 MB Primary (This is N winXP)
              Linux Swap 1 043 MB Primary
              Linux Ext2 23 085 Primary
              Type 78 31.3 MB Primary (XOSL)

              HDD2
              NTFS 28 694 MB Primary (Usually G with Win 64, hidden now)
              NTFS 257 487 MB Primary (I...don't ask me why I)

              The letters visible now in WinXP
              C, D Card Reader
              E, F CD/DVD-Burners
              I from HDD2
              N from HDD1 with WinXP

              Sorry that I'm such a noob :) + for my bad English
              ...and thx for any help, I hope some points are clearer now :)
              (ok...i5s a mess I know^^)
            • Dermot Moynihan
              ... justmetheold (strange name) you re welcome. ... Using XOSL you should still have had XP on C - just a different partition that will also be seen as C coz
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 31, 2006
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                justmetheold wrote:
                > First thanks for the answers

                justmetheold (strange name) you're welcome.

                > --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, Dermot Moynihan <der_moyn@o...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >>It shouldn't be on G. The fact that it's on G would suggest that other
                >>Operating System-bearing partitions are visible.
                >>XOSL works best when only one OS is visible at a time.
                >>Each OS will be on a different partition which will be seen as C.
                >>Look to your hiding.
                >
                >
                >>Also, you say that you installed XP64 on your second h/d but you then
                >>say that its the XP on the first hard drive (hd0) that won't boot.
                >>So, I'm assuming/guessing that the XP64 boots fine from the second hard
                >>drive.

                >>It booted just fine before I got xp64
                >>
                >>>>and back then I had even 3 hdds
                >>>>Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
                >>>>xosl fixes it.
                >>
                >>So, what boot loader is working when XOSL is removed? NTLDR? This
                >>doesn't make sense. If NTLDR is doing that job then things are set up
                >>wrong. XOSL and NTLDR do not work the same way. You don't need to hide
                >>stuff to use NTLDR. And all OSes are dependent on a solitary C drive.
                >
                >
                > Long time ago Win95 was C, I added one day WinXP, a new
                > HDD + Xosl. That worked fine, and so xp is not on C.

                Using XOSL you should still have had XP on C - just a different
                partition that will also be seen as C coz the other C (the one with 95)
                is hidden.

                > Then I moved the XP HDD to a new system,

                Seldom a good idea, IMO, unless the two motherboards are identical.
                Usually best to reinstall when moving to a new system.

                > xosl was on
                > that one too, sill worked fine.


                Let's see if I'm following this:
                You took the hard drive from, let's call it System 1, and moved it to
                System 2 meaning you now had 2 hard drives on System 2? System's 1 hard
                drive being the Slave?
                XOSL had been on System 2 and worked fine.

                > Then I added a new HDD,

                a 3rd one presumably?

                and because the new system has a Cardreader
                > that suddenly used C+D and drives, the ne partition got the
                > highest free number.

                what new partition? The new 3rd drive consisted of one partition?
                >
                > Then I made an Error and Installed without
                > hiding XP 64 on that new drive. I had xosl repair problems
                > deinstalled it, reinstalled it...it did not boot, win xp
                > got stuck. Then I did read a bit...

                Ya gotta read a lot more!!
                And be prepared to experiment. Sounds like you have enough systems and
                hard drives to practice on ;)

                > but I'm still not
                > sure what the multiboot from xp 64 changed all.
                >
                > I realized that this mess will never work...so I resized
                > the xp 64 partition to 30gb,

                That's bloody big. If you're only putting an OS and some applications on
                it it sounds like 30Gb is a bit over the top.
                With the regular XP I get away with 7-10GB.
                Mind you it will depend on what applications you will use.

                added a workdata partition,
                > changed the boot.ini files, installed xosl, used hiding.
                > Problem: Winxp starts booting, first the black screen
                > with the logo + moving bar, then a blue one with logo
                > and there it gets stuck
                > My guess is that xosl somehow makes the drive letter
                > change...but no idea how/why
                >
                > Anyway, I removed Xosl and xp boots now
                >
                > Because I tend to write it wrong, here my setup:
                >
                >
                > HDD1:
                > NTFS 53 999 MB Primary (This is N winXP)

                What tells you it is N?
                Coz in Explorer it should be C.

                > Linux Swap 1 043 MB Primary
                > Linux Ext2 23 085 Primary
                > Type 78 31.3 MB Primary (XOSL)
                >
                > HDD2
                > NTFS 28 694 MB Primary (Usually G with Win 64, hidden now)

                Not sure about lettering of OS-bearing partitions on second hard drives
                but I reckon that G should also be C.
                If you were using NTLDR the partitions could be pretty much anything
                (Excluding A and B):

                > NTFS 257 487 MB Primary (I...don't ask me why I)

                Okay, I'll leave you off.

                > The letters visible now in WinXP
                > C, D Card Reader
                > E, F CD/DVD-Burners
                > I from HDD2
                > N from HDD1 with WinXP
                You can always change most of the drive letters via Disk Management.


                I'm afraid I've lost the plot. It seems like a right hodge podge. Also,
                you seem to have ended up back with 2 hard drives despite not removing
                the 3rd one!! ;)

                So, some general tips (starting with the caveat that I've never used
                XP64 so I don't know if that is the problem. But it sounds to me as if
                other things are wrong instead, or as well):

                You've gotta do a bit of reading in the archives. We all did.

                Some ground rules I use when setting up a system to work with XOSL:

                If you have 2 hard drives I find it best to have the OSes on the first
                one and have the partitions on the second one just for DATA.
                The more drives you have with OSes the more problems you may have or at
                any rate the more complicated any troubleshooting becomes later.
                The same applies, I would imagine, if you have 3 hard drives. Save the
                2nd and 3rd for data and such.

                Have 3 Primaries on your first h/d (plus an extended with logicals if
                you want). Have that extended continuing onto the second hard drive.
                Let's assume you have three Microsoft (MS) OSes (1 on each primary
                Partition) - the lettering would ordinarily (using MS NTLDR) be Primary
                1 gets C; Primary 2 gets D; Primary 3 gets E. Then the logicals (let's
                pretend that you have only the one on your first hard drive, well, that
                gets F. Now the handy thing - about having your extended continue onto
                your second hard drive - is that the first logical on hard drive 2 will
                just follow on in the lettering e.g. in our example, it will take the
                next letter after F. That's G.

                Here's a page that tells you about how the drive letters ordinarily get
                allocated:
                http://support.microsoft.com/kb/51978/EN-US/
                However, things are different when using XOSL and you hide stuff.

                I also avoid NTFS as I use a plethora of OSes some of which do not
                support (i.e. work with or even see) NTFS partitions. I use FAT32 file
                systems. Or Linux ones where applicable.

                When installing OSes have all other OS-bearing partitions hidden.
                When booting to any OS have all other OS-bearing partitions hidden.
                I put XOSL on a logical. Saves a primary. It's a dedicated partition.
                Likewise with Linux - it works well from a logical (all versions I've
                come across).

                Where possible try to have OSes on primaries rather than logicals (Linux
                is a most honourable exception). There are ways to make OSes go on and
                behave themselves once on logicals but I try to avoid that until I have
                used up all primaries.

                Try to look ahead and make things easy for any troubleshooting. Once you
                have mastered the basics then feel free to challenge yourself. Makes for
                an easier life.

                If you are going to start this again from scratch (might seem a bit
                daunting) I would suggest having XP64 on your first primary, XP reg on
                your second primary. Or maybe the other way around. Give em enough
                breating space so you don't have to faff around trying to make the
                partitions larger later. Keep your 3rd primary free. Ya might stick
                something else on there later (or use it as a sort of buffer for the day
                you decide you should have made one of the partitions larger. Make an
                extended containing Linux, XOSL and various DATA and away you go.

                > Sorry that I'm such a noob :) + for my bad English

                God forbid that we can all (and only) speak English - I'm an Irish guy
                and we didn't learn our English too willingly ;)

                > ...and thx for any help, I hope some points are clearer now :)
                > (ok...i5s a mess I know^^)

                I don't know about the "clearer" bit. But maybe you can do something
                with what I've given you.

                And we were all noobs once and always will be when learning new stuff.
                It's not a bad place to be - just means you're starting on a journey.
                Sometimes, when I hear myself...

                All the best
                Dermot
              • justmetheold
                First, thanks for the answer and the many suggestions - to the name: I usually use JustMe but it is used by someone else, so I used a name from WoW, a game
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 1, 2006
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  First, thanks for the answer and the many suggestions

                  - to the name: I usually use "JustMe" but it is used
                  by someone else, so I used a name from WoW, a game :)
                  It fits there because I'm older then the average gamer,
                  but it for sure sounds strange here :)

                  - the lost HDD: Simple, I wrote I moved the HDD
                  to a new system, I never wrote that the new system
                  already had a HDD ;)

                  - xp64 did not boot with xosl last time I tried

                  - I have sooo much stuff installed on that xp HDD,
                  I can't start from scratch or rename anyhing without
                  weeks of work (stupid windows registry)

                  - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/51978/EN-US/ says it
                  doesn't apply to XP...(yes, there r a few things different^^)
                  Installing Xosl makes XP reassign drive letters
                  as it seems (does any1 know why?) Anyway...
                  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223188/en-us
                  says I can fix that...if I can access the
                  registry somehow...I still hope that there
                  is an easier way...



                  --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, Dermot Moynihan <der_moyn@o...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > justmetheold wrote:
                  > > First thanks for the answers
                  >
                  > justmetheold (strange name) you're welcome.
                  >
                  > > --- In xosl@yahoogroups.com, Dermot Moynihan <der_moyn@o...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>It shouldn't be on G. The fact that it's on G would suggest that other
                  > >>Operating System-bearing partitions are visible.
                  > >>XOSL works best when only one OS is visible at a time.
                  > >>Each OS will be on a different partition which will be seen as C.
                  > >>Look to your hiding.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>Also, you say that you installed XP64 on your second h/d but you then
                  > >>say that its the XP on the first hard drive (hd0) that won't boot.
                  > >>So, I'm assuming/guessing that the XP64 boots fine from the second
                  hard
                  > >>drive.
                  >
                  > >>It booted just fine before I got xp64
                  > >>
                  > >>>>and back then I had even 3 hdds
                  > >>>>Now it gets stuck during boot time, only deinstalling
                  > >>>>xosl fixes it.
                  > >>
                  > >>So, what boot loader is working when XOSL is removed? NTLDR? This
                  > >>doesn't make sense. If NTLDR is doing that job then things are set up
                  > >>wrong. XOSL and NTLDR do not work the same way. You don't need to hide
                  > >>stuff to use NTLDR. And all OSes are dependent on a solitary C drive.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Long time ago Win95 was C, I added one day WinXP, a new
                  > > HDD + Xosl. That worked fine, and so xp is not on C.
                  >
                  > Using XOSL you should still have had XP on C - just a different
                  > partition that will also be seen as C coz the other C (the one with 95)
                  > is hidden.
                  >
                  > > Then I moved the XP HDD to a new system,
                  >
                  > Seldom a good idea, IMO, unless the two motherboards are identical.
                  > Usually best to reinstall when moving to a new system.
                  >
                  > > xosl was on
                  > > that one too, sill worked fine.
                  >
                  >
                  > Let's see if I'm following this:
                  > You took the hard drive from, let's call it System 1, and moved it to
                  > System 2 meaning you now had 2 hard drives on System 2? System's 1 hard
                  > drive being the Slave?
                  > XOSL had been on System 2 and worked fine.
                  >
                  > > Then I added a new HDD,
                  >
                  > a 3rd one presumably?
                  >
                  > and because the new system has a Cardreader
                  > > that suddenly used C+D and drives, the ne partition got the
                  > > highest free number.
                  >
                  > what new partition? The new 3rd drive consisted of one partition?
                  > >
                  > > Then I made an Error and Installed without
                  > > hiding XP 64 on that new drive. I had xosl repair problems
                  > > deinstalled it, reinstalled it...it did not boot, win xp
                  > > got stuck. Then I did read a bit...
                  >
                  > Ya gotta read a lot more!!
                  > And be prepared to experiment. Sounds like you have enough systems and
                  > hard drives to practice on ;)
                  >
                  > > but I'm still not
                  > > sure what the multiboot from xp 64 changed all.
                  > >
                  > > I realized that this mess will never work...so I resized
                  > > the xp 64 partition to 30gb,
                  >
                  > That's bloody big. If you're only putting an OS and some applications on
                  > it it sounds like 30Gb is a bit over the top.
                  > With the regular XP I get away with 7-10GB.
                  > Mind you it will depend on what applications you will use.
                  >
                  > added a workdata partition,
                  > > changed the boot.ini files, installed xosl, used hiding.
                  > > Problem: Winxp starts booting, first the black screen
                  > > with the logo + moving bar, then a blue one with logo
                  > > and there it gets stuck
                  > > My guess is that xosl somehow makes the drive letter
                  > > change...but no idea how/why
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, I removed Xosl and xp boots now
                  > >
                  > > Because I tend to write it wrong, here my setup:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > HDD1:
                  > > NTFS 53 999 MB Primary (This is N winXP)
                  >
                  > What tells you it is N?
                  > Coz in Explorer it should be C.
                  >
                  > > Linux Swap 1 043 MB Primary
                  > > Linux Ext2 23 085 Primary
                  > > Type 78 31.3 MB Primary (XOSL)
                  > >
                  > > HDD2
                  > > NTFS 28 694 MB Primary (Usually G with Win 64, hidden now)
                  >
                  > Not sure about lettering of OS-bearing partitions on second hard drives
                  > but I reckon that G should also be C.
                  > If you were using NTLDR the partitions could be pretty much anything
                  > (Excluding A and B):
                  >
                  > > NTFS 257 487 MB Primary (I...don't ask me why I)
                  >
                  > Okay, I'll leave you off.
                  >
                  > > The letters visible now in WinXP
                  > > C, D Card Reader
                  > > E, F CD/DVD-Burners
                  > > I from HDD2
                  > > N from HDD1 with WinXP
                  > You can always change most of the drive letters via Disk Management.
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm afraid I've lost the plot. It seems like a right hodge podge. Also,
                  > you seem to have ended up back with 2 hard drives despite not removing
                  > the 3rd one!! ;)
                  >
                  > So, some general tips (starting with the caveat that I've never used
                  > XP64 so I don't know if that is the problem. But it sounds to me as if
                  > other things are wrong instead, or as well):
                  >
                  > You've gotta do a bit of reading in the archives. We all did.
                  >
                  > Some ground rules I use when setting up a system to work with XOSL:
                  >
                  > If you have 2 hard drives I find it best to have the OSes on the first
                  > one and have the partitions on the second one just for DATA.
                  > The more drives you have with OSes the more problems you may have or at
                  > any rate the more complicated any troubleshooting becomes later.
                  > The same applies, I would imagine, if you have 3 hard drives. Save the
                  > 2nd and 3rd for data and such.
                  >
                  > Have 3 Primaries on your first h/d (plus an extended with logicals if
                  > you want). Have that extended continuing onto the second hard drive.
                  > Let's assume you have three Microsoft (MS) OSes (1 on each primary
                  > Partition) - the lettering would ordinarily (using MS NTLDR) be Primary
                  > 1 gets C; Primary 2 gets D; Primary 3 gets E. Then the logicals (let's
                  > pretend that you have only the one on your first hard drive, well, that
                  > gets F. Now the handy thing - about having your extended continue onto
                  > your second hard drive - is that the first logical on hard drive 2 will
                  > just follow on in the lettering e.g. in our example, it will take the
                  > next letter after F. That's G.
                  >
                  > Here's a page that tells you about how the drive letters ordinarily get
                  > allocated:
                  > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/51978/EN-US/
                  > However, things are different when using XOSL and you hide stuff.
                  >
                  > I also avoid NTFS as I use a plethora of OSes some of which do not
                  > support (i.e. work with or even see) NTFS partitions. I use FAT32 file
                  > systems. Or Linux ones where applicable.
                  >
                  > When installing OSes have all other OS-bearing partitions hidden.
                  > When booting to any OS have all other OS-bearing partitions hidden.
                  > I put XOSL on a logical. Saves a primary. It's a dedicated partition.
                  > Likewise with Linux - it works well from a logical (all versions I've
                  > come across).
                  >
                  > Where possible try to have OSes on primaries rather than logicals (Linux
                  > is a most honourable exception). There are ways to make OSes go on and
                  > behave themselves once on logicals but I try to avoid that until I have
                  > used up all primaries.
                  >
                  > Try to look ahead and make things easy for any troubleshooting. Once you
                  > have mastered the basics then feel free to challenge yourself. Makes for
                  > an easier life.
                  >
                  > If you are going to start this again from scratch (might seem a bit
                  > daunting) I would suggest having XP64 on your first primary, XP reg on
                  > your second primary. Or maybe the other way around. Give em enough
                  > breating space so you don't have to faff around trying to make the
                  > partitions larger later. Keep your 3rd primary free. Ya might stick
                  > something else on there later (or use it as a sort of buffer for the day
                  > you decide you should have made one of the partitions larger. Make an
                  > extended containing Linux, XOSL and various DATA and away you go.
                  >
                  > > Sorry that I'm such a noob :) + for my bad English
                  >
                  > God forbid that we can all (and only) speak English - I'm an Irish guy
                  > and we didn't learn our English too willingly ;)
                  >
                  > > ...and thx for any help, I hope some points are clearer now :)
                  > > (ok...i5s a mess I know^^)
                  >
                  > I don't know about the "clearer" bit. But maybe you can do something
                  > with what I've given you.
                  >
                  > And we were all noobs once and always will be when learning new stuff.
                  > It's not a bad place to be - just means you're starting on a journey.
                  > Sometimes, when I hear myself...
                  >
                  > All the best
                  > Dermot
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.