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Re: XMLmind, Word 11

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  • Saqib Ali
    ... Unless the developer pays Microsoft to use the DTD. See http://www.xml-dev.com/blog/#89 for related news items. Large corporations like Corel and Sun may
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 10, 2004
      > What this means is that it will be illegal for a developer to access
      > MS documents by writing an XSLT stylesheet or SAX application.

      Unless the developer pays Microsoft to use the DTD. See
      http://www.xml-dev.com/blog/#89 for related news items. Large
      corporations like Corel and Sun may end up paying MS to use the DTD,
      but independent application developers might not be able to afford it.

      Saqib Ali
      -------------
      http://validate.sf.net <---- (X)HTML / DocBook XML Validator and
      Transformer
    • Paul Tremblay
      ... Which seems like a good reason to avoid MS altogether. Given how MS operates, it will want to make sure you are locked into their system and that it is
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 11, 2004
        On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 05:21:57AM -0000, Saqib Ali wrote:

        >
        > > What this means is that it will be illegal for a developer to access
        > > MS documents by writing an XSLT stylesheet or SAX application.
        >
        > Unless the developer pays Microsoft to use the DTD. See
        > http://www.xml-dev.com/blog/#89 for related news items. Large
        > corporations like Corel and Sun may end up paying MS to use the DTD,
        > but independent application developers might not be able to afford it.
        >

        Which seems like a good reason to avoid MS altogether. Given how MS
        operates, it will want to make sure you are locked into their system and
        that it is painful to get out of it.

        Paul


        --

        ************************
        *Paul Tremblay *
        *phthenry@...*
        ************************
      • Chinedu Uchechukwu
        Hello all, Could someone please help me understand: How possible is it to make a patent of xml that is freely available? I would like to understand. Chinedu...
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 12, 2004
          Hello all,
          Could someone please help me understand:

          How possible is it to make a patent of xml that is freely available?
          I would like to understand.
          Chinedu...


          --- In xml-doc@yahoogroups.com, Paul Tremblay <phthenry@e...> wrote:
          > On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 05:21:57AM -0000, Saqib Ali wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > > What this means is that it will be illegal for a developer to
          access
          > > > MS documents by writing an XSLT stylesheet or SAX application.
          > >
          > > Unless the developer pays Microsoft to use the DTD. See
          > > http://www.xml-dev.com/blog/#89 for related news items. Large
          > > corporations like Corel and Sun may end up paying MS to use the
          DTD,
          > > but independent application developers might not be able to
          afford it.
          > >
          >
          > Which seems like a good reason to avoid MS altogether. Given how MS
          > operates, it will want to make sure you are locked into their
          system and
          > that it is painful to get out of it.
          >
          > Paul
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          > ************************
          > *Paul Tremblay *
          > *phthenry@e...*
          > ************************
        • Saqib Ali
          ... Actually you don t need to patent the XML. All you need to do, is require Licensing fee to use the Schema/DTD. And if it is variable licensing fee, you can
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 12, 2004
            > How possible is it to make a patent of xml that is freely available?
            > I would like to understand.
            > Chinedu...

            Actually you don't need to patent the XML. All you need to do, is
            require Licensing fee to use the Schema/DTD. And if it is variable
            licensing fee, you can ensure that, only the people that you want can
            use the DTD/Schema. Anyone else will not be able to use it due to the
            high licensing cost.

            Saqib Ali
            -------------
            http://validate.sf.net <---- (X)HTML / DocBook XML Validator and
            Transformer
          • Paul Tremblay
            ... Yes, that s exactly the question. MS is claming that they have an original idea--they are storing a word-processing format in a *single* XML format. They
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 12, 2004
              On Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 12:24:01PM -0000, Chinedu Uchechukwu wrote:
              >
              > Hello all,
              > Could someone please help me understand:
              >
              > How possible is it to make a patent of xml that is freely available?
              > I would like to understand.
              > Chinedu...
              >

              Yes, that's exactly the question. MS is claming that they have an
              original idea--they are storing a word-processing format in a *single*
              XML format. They have to use *single* since Open Office already stores
              their formatats in mutliple files, bound in a zip archive.

              Since no one has applied for this patent before, MS thinks it can get
              it.

              In order to successfully get a patent, at least two condtions are
              necessary:

              1. The technology or idea must be original.

              2. It cannot be obvious.

              So regarding number (2), you couldn't apply for a patent for a fan that
              cools an engine. There would be nothing unique or inventive about such a
              patent.

              The question arises: so just what is "obvious?" This is apparently a
              contentious issue. For example, someone applied for a patent for
              windshield wipers. You would think this idea is really too obvious, but
              the patent was granted and now auto-manafacuteres have to pay a fee for
              each car manafactured.

              Given that storing data in XML has already been invented, you would
              think that MS shouldn't get their patent. But from what I've read,
              people in the patent office are clueless. So there is a chance that MS
              will get its patent, which will make it illegal for you to write an XSLT
              stylsheet to convert a MS document to docbook.

              That's really infuriating and a case of abusing intellectual property
              rights. And that's why I am a little baffled why any XML advocate would
              even consider using Word.

              Paul

              --

              ************************
              *Paul Tremblay *
              *phthenry@...*
              ************************
            • David Sewell
              ... Of course, when dealing with the U.S. Patent Office even those conditions aren t always necessary. Witness the notorious case of the patented method for
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 13, 2004
                On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Paul Tremblay wrote:

                > In order to successfully get a patent, at least two condtions are
                > necessary:
                >
                > 1. The technology or idea must be original.
                >
                > 2. It cannot be obvious.

                Of course, when dealing with the U.S. Patent Office even those
                conditions aren't always necessary. Witness the notorious case of the
                patented method for swinging sideways on a swing:

                http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3084451.htm

                http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6,368,227'.WKU.&OS=PN/6,368,227&RS=PN/6,368,227

                --
                David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager
                Electronic Imprint, The University of Virginia Press
                PO Box 400318, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA
                Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903
                Email: dsewell@... Tel: +1 434 924 9973
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