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docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?

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  • David Cramer
    Not too long ago on this list Daniel Schneider graciously posted a link to his instructions (http://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/quick-guide.text) for
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 2, 2000
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      Not too long ago on this list Daniel Schneider graciously posted a link to
      his instructions
      (http://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/quick-guide.text) for getting
      an xml DTD into a Frame+SGML EDD. Helpful though his tips were, I still
      haven't managed to get the process to work. Has anyone succeeded in getting
      the XML version of the DocBook dtd (docbookx.dtd,
      http://docbook.org/xml/4.1.2/index.html) into Frame+SGML? If so, I'm
      wondering if it would be possible to share the EDD, sgmlapps.fm file, and
      other associated files created in the process with the rest of us on the
      list. I'll keep trying myself and post them somewhere if I succeed. I'm
      using Frame+SGML 5.5 for Windows. I'm don't know if the same EDD could be
      shared with Frame+SGML 6.0 or with other platforms.

      Thanks,
      David


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alan Houser
      Hi, If your goal is to create XML documents that conform to the DocBook XML DTD, I submit that you re trying to solve the wrong problem. An SGML version of
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 3, 2000
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        Hi,

        If your goal is to create XML documents that conform to the DocBook
        XML DTD, I submit that you're trying to solve the wrong problem. An
        SGML version of DocBook already exists, and FM+SGML already provides
        the requisite ancillary files (EDD, template, application file) for
        working with DocBook SGML. Create your documents in FM+SGML using the
        DocBook application, and "save as XML". You will get the same result.

        If your goal is to import an arbitrary XML DTD into FM+SGML as an
        academic exercise, I would start with a simpler DTD. :-)

        -Alan
        ----
        Alan Houser, Principal
        Group Wellesley
        Documentation Services for Technology Industries
        412-363-3481
        www.groupwellesley.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: David Cramer <dcramer@...>
        To: <xml-doc@egroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:56 PM
        Subject: [xml-doc] docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?


        > Not too long ago on this list Daniel Schneider graciously posted a
        link to
        > his instructions
        > (http://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/quick-guide.text) for
        getting
        > an xml DTD into a Frame+SGML EDD. Helpful though his tips were, I
        still
        > haven't managed to get the process to work. Has anyone succeeded in
        getting
        > the XML version of the DocBook dtd (docbookx.dtd,
        > http://docbook.org/xml/4.1.2/index.html) into Frame+SGML? If so, I'm
        > wondering if it would be possible to share the EDD, sgmlapps.fm
        file, and
        > other associated files created in the process with the rest of us on
        the
        > list. I'll keep trying myself and post them somewhere if I succeed.
        I'm
        > using Frame+SGML 5.5 for Windows. I'm don't know if the same EDD
        could be
        > shared with Frame+SGML 6.0 or with other platforms.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > David
      • David Cramer
        Alan, Thanks for the help. What I m really trying to do is use Frame to author documents which I can then transform using Jirka Kosek s HTML Help XSL
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 3, 2000
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          Alan,
          Thanks for the help. What I'm really trying to do is use Frame to author
          documents which I can then transform using Jirka Kosek's HTML Help XSL
          stylesheet (See Mike Smith's recent post: Generating HTML Help from DocBook
          XML). My problem with the DocBook EDD prinstalled with Frame+SGML 5.5 is
          that it is an old version of DocBook (2.something) which seems to differ
          from more recent versions in ways that matter to me. I'm sure Frame+SGML
          6.0 has a newer version of DocBook, but I really only at the experimenting
          and learning stage with all this, so paying for an upgrade doesn't make
          sense. The only DocBook related download I could find at Adobe's Web site is
          aimed at Frame 5.1.1 users.

          Thanks,
          David



          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Alan Houser [mailto:arh@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 7:40 AM
          > To: xml-doc@egroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [xml-doc] docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > If your goal is to create XML documents that conform to the DocBook
          > XML DTD, I submit that you're trying to solve the wrong problem. An
          > SGML version of DocBook already exists, and FM+SGML already provides
          > the requisite ancillary files (EDD, template, application file) for
          > working with DocBook SGML. Create your documents in FM+SGML using the
          > DocBook application, and "save as XML". You will get the same result.
          >
          > If your goal is to import an arbitrary XML DTD into FM+SGML as an
          > academic exercise, I would start with a simpler DTD. :-)
          >
          > -Alan
          > ----
          > Alan Houser, Principal
          > Group Wellesley
          > Documentation Services for Technology Industries
          > 412-363-3481
          > www.groupwellesley.com
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: David Cramer <dcramer@...>
          > To: <xml-doc@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:56 PM
          > Subject: [xml-doc] docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?
          >
          >
          > > Not too long ago on this list Daniel Schneider graciously posted a
          > link to
          > > his instructions
          > > (http://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/quick-guide.text) for
          > getting
          > > an xml DTD into a Frame+SGML EDD. Helpful though his tips were, I
          > still
          > > haven't managed to get the process to work. Has anyone succeeded in
          > getting
          > > the XML version of the DocBook dtd (docbookx.dtd,
          > > http://docbook.org/xml/4.1.2/index.html) into Frame+SGML? If so, I'm
          > > wondering if it would be possible to share the EDD, sgmlapps.fm
          > file, and
          > > other associated files created in the process with the rest of us on
          > the
          > > list. I'll keep trying myself and post them somewhere if I succeed.
          > I'm
          > > using Frame+SGML 5.5 for Windows. I'm don't know if the same EDD
          > could be
          > > shared with Frame+SGML 6.0 or with other platforms.
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > David
          >
          >
          >
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elizabeth Keddy
          Hi David, I m not sure where you are located, but tonight at the STC meeting (Northern New England Chapter) in Nashua, NH, Lori DeFurio of Adobe Systems will
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 3, 2000
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            Hi David,

            I'm not sure where you are located, but tonight at the STC meeting
            (Northern New England Chapter) in Nashua, NH, Lori DeFurio of Adobe Systems
            will be discussing how FrameMaker+SGML 6.0 can "make your job of creating
            paper, PDF, HTML, and XML a seamless task." She will create XML from
            FrameMaker+SGML using Quadralay's WebWorks Publisher Standard Edition,
            which is included in FrameMaker & FrameMaker+SGML 6.0. You can read more
            about this meeting at the following site:

            http://stc.org/region1/nne/www

            If you live too far away to make the meeting, perhaps you can get Lori's
            email address from Adobe Systems. She might be able to provide some
            helpful pointers. Good luck.

            Betty

            At 09:04 AM 10/03/2000 -0500, you wrote:
            >Alan,
            >Thanks for the help. What I'm really trying to do is use Frame to author
            >documents which I can then transform using Jirka Kosek's HTML Help XSL
            >stylesheet (See Mike Smith's recent post: Generating HTML Help from DocBook
            >XML). My problem with the DocBook EDD prinstalled with Frame+SGML 5.5 is
            >that it is an old version of DocBook (2.something) which seems to differ
            >from more recent versions in ways that matter to me. I'm sure Frame+SGML
            >6.0 has a newer version of DocBook, but I really only at the experimenting
            >and learning stage with all this, so paying for an upgrade doesn't make
            >sense. The only DocBook related download I could find at Adobe's Web site is
            >aimed at Frame 5.1.1 users.
            >
            >Thanks,
            >David
            >
            >
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Alan Houser [mailto:arh@...]
            > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 7:40 AM
            > > To: xml-doc@egroups.com
            > > Subject: Re: [xml-doc] docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > If your goal is to create XML documents that conform to the DocBook
            > > XML DTD, I submit that you're trying to solve the wrong problem. An
            > > SGML version of DocBook already exists, and FM+SGML already provides
            > > the requisite ancillary files (EDD, template, application file) for
            > > working with DocBook SGML. Create your documents in FM+SGML using the
            > > DocBook application, and "save as XML". You will get the same result.
            > >
            > > If your goal is to import an arbitrary XML DTD into FM+SGML as an
            > > academic exercise, I would start with a simpler DTD. :-)
            > >
            > > -Alan
            > > ----
            > > Alan Houser, Principal
            > > Group Wellesley
            > > Documentation Services for Technology Industries
            > > 412-363-3481
            > > www.groupwellesley.com
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: David Cramer <dcramer@...>
            > > To: <xml-doc@egroups.com>
            > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:56 PM
            > > Subject: [xml-doc] docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?
            > >
            > >
            > > > Not too long ago on this list Daniel Schneider graciously posted a
            > > link to
            > > > his instructions
            > > > (http://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/quick-guide.text) for
            > > getting
            > > > an xml DTD into a Frame+SGML EDD. Helpful though his tips were, I
            > > still
            > > > haven't managed to get the process to work. Has anyone succeeded in
            > > getting
            > > > the XML version of the DocBook dtd (docbookx.dtd,
            > > > http://docbook.org/xml/4.1.2/index.html) into Frame+SGML? If so, I'm
            > > > wondering if it would be possible to share the EDD, sgmlapps.fm
            > > file, and
            > > > other associated files created in the process with the rest of us on
            > > the
            > > > list. I'll keep trying myself and post them somewhere if I succeed.
            > > I'm
            > > > using Frame+SGML 5.5 for Windows. I'm don't know if the same EDD
            > > could be
            > > > shared with Frame+SGML 6.0 or with other platforms.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks,
            > > > David
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
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            > > Make changes via Web: http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/xml-doc/
            > > Read archived messages: http://www.egroups.com/messages/xml-doc/
            > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
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          • Elaine M Brennan
            ... Part of the problem that I suspect you re running in to is that, like almost every other DocBook installation on the planet, the FrameMaker installation is
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 3, 2000
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              At 09:04 AM 10/3/00, David Cramer wrote:


              >Thanks for the help. What I'm really trying to do is use Frame to author
              >documents which I can then transform using Jirka Kosek's HTML Help XSL
              >stylesheet (See Mike Smith's recent post: Generating HTML Help from DocBook
              >XML).


              >My problem with the DocBook EDD prinstalled with Frame+SGML 5.5 is
              >that it is an old version of DocBook (2.something) which seems to differ
              >from more recent versions in ways that matter to me. I'm sure Frame+SGML
              >6.0 has a newer version of DocBook, but I really only at the experimenting
              >and learning stage with all this, so paying for an upgrade doesn't make
              >sense. The only DocBook related download I could find at Adobe's Web site is
              >aimed at Frame 5.1.1 users.

              Part of the problem that I suspect you're running in to is that, like
              almost every other DocBook installation on the planet, the FrameMaker
              installation is a *sub-set* of the overall DocBook DTD -- DocBook was never
              intended to be used "out-of-the-box", and is deliberately set up modularly
              so that you can call just the pieces that you want. The pieces that you
              want *might* be part of the overall DocBook 2.x DTD ... and just not
              installed in FM+SGML.

              What I'd suggest doing is identifying the parts of the current *SGML*
              DocBook DTD that you want to use, and seeing how closely you can map them
              to the DocBook you've got installed on your system (adding or deleting as
              appropriate), and then, as Allen Hauser suggested, using the "Save as XML"
              feature within FrameMaker.

              There are a LOT of reasons why you can't just install the XML DocBook DTD
              in FM+SGML, but that's a different post!

              --Elaine



              ----

              Elaine M. Brennan, Principal elaine.brennan@...
              eb xml consulting
              4900 South Ulster Street #13-101 303/224-0442
              Denver, CO 80237 720/635-8409 (mobile)
              Efax: 240/208-6550
            • Ed Nixon
              Apropos of this advice and your learning, if you don t already have a copy of Norm Walsh s DocBook Reference I d suggest you get one ASAP. There is a lot of
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 3, 2000
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                Apropos of this advice and your learning, if you don't already have a copy
                of Norm Walsh's DocBook Reference I'd suggest you get one ASAP. There is a
                lot of information in that book about the differences between the SGML and
                XML versions of DocBook. In addition, he has at least one chapter about
                customizing DocBook and, while it doesn't make the task totally a walk it
                does give you a sense of direction and some good pointers. Probably the
                most telling lesson that can be learned is that DocBook is that sort of
                thing of which careers are made (or at least healthy consulting practices)
                as witness Norm himself and this excellent, excellent resource.

                ...edN

                At 08:53 AM 03/10/2000 -0600, Elaine M Brennan wrote:
                >At 09:04 AM 10/3/00, David Cramer wrote:
                >
                >
                > >Thanks for the help. What I'm really trying to do is use Frame to author
                > >documents which I can then transform using Jirka Kosek's HTML Help XSL
                > >stylesheet (See Mike Smith's recent post: Generating HTML Help from DocBook
                > >XML).
                >
                >
                > >My problem with the DocBook EDD prinstalled with Frame+SGML 5.5 is
                > >that it is an old version of DocBook (2.something) which seems to differ
                > >from more recent versions in ways that matter to me. I'm sure Frame+SGML
                > >6.0 has a newer version of DocBook, but I really only at the experimenting
                > >and learning stage with all this, so paying for an upgrade doesn't make
                > >sense. The only DocBook related download I could find at Adobe's Web site is
                > >aimed at Frame 5.1.1 users.
                >
                >Part of the problem that I suspect you're running in to is that, like
                >almost every other DocBook installation on the planet, the FrameMaker
                >installation is a *sub-set* of the overall DocBook DTD -- DocBook was never
                >intended to be used "out-of-the-box", and is deliberately set up modularly
                >so that you can call just the pieces that you want. The pieces that you
                >want *might* be part of the overall DocBook 2.x DTD ... and just not
                >installed in FM+SGML.
                >
                >What I'd suggest doing is identifying the parts of the current *SGML*
                >DocBook DTD that you want to use, and seeing how closely you can map them
                >to the DocBook you've got installed on your system (adding or deleting as
                >appropriate), and then, as Allen Hauser suggested, using the "Save as XML"
                >feature within FrameMaker.
                >
                >There are a LOT of reasons why you can't just install the XML DocBook DTD
                >in FM+SGML, but that's a different post!
                >
                >--Elaine
                >
                >
                >
                >----
                >
                >Elaine M. Brennan, Principal elaine.brennan@...
                >eb xml consulting
                >4900 South Ulster Street #13-101 303/224-0442
                >Denver, CO 80237 720/635-8409 (mobile)
                > Efax: 240/208-6550
                >
                >
                >
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              • David Cramer
                Thanks. I m working through Walsh s book right now. I agree it s a wonderful resource. I really respect you guys who figured all this stuff out before Walsh s
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 4, 2000
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                  Thanks. I'm working through Walsh's book right now. I agree it's a wonderful
                  resource. I really respect you guys who figured all this stuff out before
                  Walsh's book existed. My uninformed question stem from the fact that I have
                  to play with the technology as I read or nothing will stick. Skipping ahead
                  to Appendix B cleared some things up. Chapter 5 looks promising too.
                  Thanks again,
                  David

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ed Nixon
                  To: xml-doc@egroups.com; 'xml-doc@egroups.com'
                  Sent: 10/3/00 7:23 PM
                  Subject: RE: [xml-doc] docbookx.dtd in Frame+SGML?

                  Apropos of this advice and your learning, if you don't already have a
                  copy
                  of Norm Walsh's DocBook Reference I'd suggest you get one ASAP. There is
                  a
                  lot of information in that book about the differences between the SGML
                  and
                  XML versions of DocBook. In addition, he has at least one chapter about
                  customizing DocBook and, while it doesn't make the task totally a walk
                  it
                  does give you a sense of direction and some good pointers. Probably the
                  most telling lesson that can be learned is that DocBook is that sort of
                  thing of which careers are made (or at least healthy consulting
                  practices)
                  as witness Norm himself and this excellent, excellent resource.

                  ...edN


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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