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Re: [xml-doc] Re: SGML/XML & batch composition solutions

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  • Gerrit Kuilder
    Hello, one remark only, ... but you ... high end About xyvision (now called XML profesional Publisher) it can now import XML without conversion and use tags
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 9, 2002
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      Hello,

      one remark only,

      > etc. Like Barry, I think Penta hasn't yet fully modernized. Xyvision has
      > begun to incorporate XML directly (e.g. reads cals tables natively),
      but you
      > will still have to run either something like Omnimark or use Xychange to
      > convert your documents into XyAscii (as we used to call it). To the
      high end

      About xyvision (now called XML profesional Publisher) it can now import
      XML without conversion and use tags xppaths and attributes for
      formatting. If any conversion is needed one can use XSLT, automaticly
      applied on import.

      I am biased, working for a company that resells and supports the
      software, so that's all I am going to contribute to the subject.

      Regards,

      Gerrit Kuilder


      fred.lass@... wrote:

      > Barry wrote:
      >
      > "Indeed, to say that embedded tagging in text is problematical and should be
      > replaced by some other means of identifying text content is to say that
      > Goldfarb and the entire experience of the publishing automation industry
      > since
      > the early 60s has been wrong and their work meaningless."
      >
      > Agree, XML tagging rather than some other proprietary tagging would be the
      > preferred method.
      >
      > "Our research has suggested that XSL-FO may be somewhat green for complex
      > composition. There are a number of important page artifacts not addressed
      > by
      > the FO specification and, thus not likely to be supported by the engines
      > that
      > support it. Indeed, as powerful as XSL is, it doesn't deal organically with
      > the arcane parts of pagination like 4-level running heads with two levels of
      > keep, etc. When it comes to pagination, the devil's very much in the
      > details.
      > The composition engines listed above all do those kinds of things, quite
      > well
      > as a matter of fact. The primary variables are:
      > 1. How natively does the engine handle XML
      > (or SGML?) The more transforms you have
      > to support by yourself, the more complex
      > your environment.
      > 2. How stable is the vendor? Nobody wants
      > to get stuck with unsupported software.
      > 3. How much does it cost? The engines listed
      > are good but high cost. We have had good
      > experience with less expensive packages
      > including Epic Publisher(really inexpensive.)
      > If a less costly package will do the job,
      > don't buy the expensive one."
      >
      > I would add a few other considerations.
      > 4. Volume: How many composed documents and composed pages would you estimate
      > are required on a daily, weekly, monthly, basis? Peak usage?
      >
      > In addition to Barry's comments on XSL(FO) which I agree with, the
      > formatting engines that read XSL(FO) are relatively slow. We queried RenderX
      > relative to doing 40 documents a day (each about 30 pages long) and they
      > suggested that it would require at least 2 instances of RenderX running to
      > accommodate this relatively low volume. One thing about the higher end
      > systems, they are fast. (I've done literally 10,000 documents a day using
      > Xyvision -- from data to PDF.)
      >
      > 5. Will you be wanting batch/background processing.
      > Not all systems or versions of system are available for batch processing.
      > For example, I believe (I could be wrong) that Arbortext Epic Publisher (the
      > workstation version) doesn't, while the more expensive E-3 version does.
      >
      > In terms of the products you listed, being an old typesetter, I actually
      > have used all you mentioned. Any of them would fit the bill for any page
      > layout, typography, etc., you might encounter. They are all fast, run batch,
      > etc. Like Barry, I think Penta hasn't yet fully modernized. Xyvision has
      > begun to incorporate XML directly (e.g. reads cals tables natively), but you
      > will still have to run either something like Omnimark or use Xychange to
      > convert your documents into XyAscii (as we used to call it). To the high end
      > systems I would add 3B2 (Advent - www.3b2.com or www.3b3online.com for
      > demos). It also reads XML natively (no conversion necessary) and has all of
      > the typographical functionality you would want. It also integrates with
      > databases/file system of many types, and it is more modern -- deals with
      > Fonts, Unicode, etc. like you would expect. On the middle priced side there
      > is a product called TopLeaf (Turnkey systems, www.turnkey.com.au). Much
      > lower priced than Xyvision, 3B2, or Penta. Reads XML natively (no conversion
      > required), has an open API for batch processing, uses wizards for basic spec
      > writing -- but its macro/spec language is a little obscure.
      >
      > hope this helps,
      >
      > fred
      >
      > ****************************
      > Fred Lass
      > Lightspeed Interactive, Inc.
      > Senior Solutions Architect
      > mailto:fred.lass@...
      > http://www.lspeed.com
      > (office) (925) 224-8730 x7438
      >
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    • rsperberg
      ... At Seybold a couple weeks ago, I ran across DataZone s Miramo XML-to- PDF product. It uses a FrameMaker engine underneath (which is why it was in the Adobe
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 13, 2002
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        --- In xml-doc@y..., fred.lass@l... wrote:
        > In terms of the products you listed, being an old typesetter, I
        > actually have used all you mentioned. Any of them would fit the
        > bill for any page layout, typography, etc., you might encounter.
        > They are all fast, run batch, etc. . . . To the high end
        > systems I would add 3B2 (Advent - www.3b2.com or www.3b3online.com
        > for demos). It also reads XML natively (no conversion necessary)
        > and has all of the typographical functionality you would want. It
        > also integrates with databases/file system of many types, and it is
        > more modern -- deals with Fonts, Unicode, etc. like you would
        > expect. On the middle priced side there is a product called TopLeaf
        > (Turnkey systems, www.turnkey.com.au). Much lower priced than
        > Xyvision, 3B2, or Penta. Reads XML natively (no conversion
        > required), has an open API for batch processing, uses wizards for
        > basic spec writing -- but its macro/spec language is a little
        > obscure.

        At Seybold a couple weeks ago, I ran across DataZone's Miramo XML-to-
        PDF product. It uses a FrameMaker engine underneath (which is why it
        was in the Adobe partners pavilion). It looked intriguing --
        especially at a price under $10,000 -- but I only want to throw its
        name into the hopper, not recommend it since I haven't worked with it.

        I have worked with Datalogics Pager, taking XML to PDF, and can
        testify to its speed and robustness. It's the type of program that
        will let you do anything with footnotes, say, that you want. It reads
        XML but it doesn't "understand" XML -- no concept of parent/children,
        for instance, which means you have to create artificial constructs to
        identify certain segments or elements in your text. And the price
        there is an order of magnitude greater than Miramo.

        Roger Sperberg

        Aspen Publishers
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