Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Proteum

Expand Messages
  • emigr8
    ... Really. Can you give me the exact steps in Proteum that caused it to crash and, if I get time, I ll take a look, assuming I can remember how that bit
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "analogsignal@..." <analogsignal@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
      > > > Proteum also has arp editing, but I haven't played with that feature enough to remember what it does and how it works.
      > >
      >
      > I did try out Proteum. It is useful for arp editing since it allows you to insert and delete steps. However, it tends to crash if you edit the arp while its playing. Also I find it slower editing in Proteum than on the CS because Proteum requires a lot of mouse clicks. I will continue editing arps primarily on the CS and use Proteum for occasionally inserting and deleting steps.
      >
      Really. Can you give me the exact steps in Proteum that caused it to crash and, if I get time, I'll take a look, assuming I can remember how that bit worked :-(
    • steve_the_composer
      I like this!!!!! I just did a test (tuning table: C major scale with all accidentals tuned down a 1/2 step; arp: 0, +4, +7, +4, +12, + 7, +4, 0) and am
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        I like this!!!!! I just did a test (tuning table: C major scale with all "accidentals" tuned down a 1/2 step; arp: 0, +4, +7, +4, +12, + 7, +4, 0) and am looking forward to taking advantage of this technique.

        I never really used the user tuning tables before, but I can now see how 12 might not be enough. If I get into it, I might have to see about using my embedded sysex technique for banks of tuning tables.

        Thanks for the tip!!

        Steve

        BTW, I editied the tuning table from the front panel, but since it was only lowering 5 notes per octave 1/2 step each it was not very time consuming.

        Now I am wishing (1) we could name tuning tables and (2) we could save/load (sysex) each user table individually.


        --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <goddard.duncan@...> wrote:
        >
        > >>2. No Force to Scale. If I create a pattern with major intervals, when I play a C on the keyboard, it plays in C major. When I play a D on the keyboard, it plays in D major. I think I need to edit the MIDI in a DAW to keep the piece in C major.<<
        >
        > you might be able to use a custom tuning table for the preset. I edited the tuning of the notes I didn't want to hear to be the same as the notes I did want to hear. it's a bit laborious, but you can get the patch to stay in key & you can also get a bit creative with microtonal stuff, to emulate real CV/gate synths for instance, or more exotic instruments.
        > the user-tuning tables are down the far end of the master edit menu, I think, & you select the one you want for all four layers of the patch.
      • emigr8
        Not being able to name a tuning is a bit annoying. I thought you could save and load a tuning as a bulk tuning dump sysx or, at least, that s what Proteum
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Not being able to name a tuning is a bit annoying. I thought you could save and load a tuning as a bulk tuning dump sysx or, at least, that's what Proteum seems to be doing (it's another area I can't remember very well). I think it will also allow you to import Scala scale files and does either octave mode (a change to D changes all the Ds across the keyboard) or note mode (where a change to a note only affects that note). I never spent that long on tuning tables because I wasn't really sure what people would want to do with them.

          --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
          >
          > I like this!!!!! I just did a test (tuning table: C major scale with all "accidentals" tuned down a 1/2 step; arp: 0, +4, +7, +4, +12, + 7, +4, 0) and am looking forward to taking advantage of this technique.
          >
          > I never really used the user tuning tables before, but I can now see how 12 might not be enough. If I get into it, I might have to see about using my embedded sysex technique for banks of tuning tables.
          >
          > Thanks for the tip!!
          >
          > Steve
          >
          > BTW, I editied the tuning table from the front panel, but since it was only lowering 5 notes per octave 1/2 step each it was not very time consuming.
          >
          > Now I am wishing (1) we could name tuning tables and (2) we could save/load (sysex) each user table individually.
          >
          >
          > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <goddard.duncan@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >>2. No Force to Scale. If I create a pattern with major intervals, when I play a C on the keyboard, it plays in C major. When I play a D on the keyboard, it plays in D major. I think I need to edit the MIDI in a DAW to keep the piece in C major.<<
          > >
          > > you might be able to use a custom tuning table for the preset. I edited the tuning of the notes I didn't want to hear to be the same as the notes I did want to hear. it's a bit laborious, but you can get the patch to stay in key & you can also get a bit creative with microtonal stuff, to emulate real CV/gate synths for instance, or more exotic instruments.
          > > the user-tuning tables are down the far end of the master edit menu, I think, & you select the one you want for all four layers of the patch.
          >
        • analogsignal@ymail.com
          ... I will get back to you soon on this.
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" <emigr8@...> wrote:
            > Really. Can you give me the exact steps in Proteum that caused it to crash and, if I get time, I'll take a look, assuming I can remember how that bit worked :-(

            I will get back to you soon on this.
          • analogsignal@ymail.com
            ... and, if I get time, I ll take a look, assuming I can remember how that bit worked :-( Proteum crashes very often for me when I close the Edit Arp window
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" emigr8@ wrote:

              > > Can you give me the exact steps in Proteum that caused it to crash and, if I get time, I'll take a look, assuming I can remember how that bit worked :-(


              Proteum crashes very often for me when I close the Edit Arp window after making a change while I am playing a pattern on the CS.  If the CS is not playing, it is much less likely to crash.

              If you are thinking about improving the arp editor, I would love the ability to:

              1. do all arp editing from the (computer) keyboard without touching a mouse -- sort of like the old school trackers.

              2. copy and paste a step or several steps

              I would also be appreciative if you could just eliminate the crashes without any other enhancements.

              Thanks very much,
              Mike



            • emigr8
              I have got it to crash now. Hmmm. Not sure why. My crash is something to do with tooltips, I think. Your crash sounds like a different one. I ll play and see
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 4, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                I have got it to crash now. Hmmm. Not sure why. My crash is something to do with tooltips, I think. Your crash sounds like a different one. I'll play and see if I can reproduce that as well.

                Unfortunately, I am in the process of upgrading my DAW and don't yet have any dev tools on the machine (the disks are not at home at the moment). I'll take a look later this week, when I get back up and running properly.

                Keyboard stuff should be doable using tabbing, but its very ugly and difficult, I agree. That's part of the reason I put in the MIDI import function (though that doesn't work as well as it could, either). I don't really know how other people implement this (custom arps are not something I use a lot). If someone could give me the kind of keyboard things that would help, I'll have a think. Copy and paste should be doable though. Having said that, Proteum was mostly written about five or six years ago, so there is probably a load of stuff I have forgotten. I'll get back to you.



                --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "analogsignal@..." <analogsignal@...> wrote:
                >
                > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" emigr8@ wrote:
                >
                > > > Can you give me the exact steps in Proteum that caused it to crash
                > and, if I get time, I'll take a look, assuming I can remember how that
                > bit worked :-(
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Proteum crashes very often for me when I close the Edit Arp window after
                > making a change while I am playing a pattern on the CS.  If the CS is
                > not playing, it is much less likely to crash.
                >
                >
                > If you are thinking about improving the arp editor, I would love the
                > ability to:
                >
                > 1. do all arp editing from the (computer) keyboard without touching a
                > mouse -- sort of like the old school trackers.
                >
                > 2. copy and paste a step or several steps
                >
                > I would also be appreciative if you could just eliminate the crashes
                > without any other enhancements.
                >
                > Thanks very much,
                > Mike
                >
              • analogsignal@ymail.com
                ... For some reason, it is very easy to reproduce on my system. Why don t you attach some code to the Unhandled Exception event and do a stack dump to a file?
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 4, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" <emigr8@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have got it to crash now. Hmmm. Not sure why. My crash is something to do with tooltips, I think. Your crash sounds like a different one. I'll play and see if I can reproduce that as well.

                  For some reason, it is very easy to reproduce on my system. Why don't you attach some code to the Unhandled Exception event and do a stack dump to a file? I could then send you the file.


                  > Unfortunately, I am in the process of upgrading my DAW and don't yet have any dev tools on the machine (the disks are not at home at the moment). I'll take a look later this week, when I get back up and running properly.

                  Thanks, no hurry. Only if you have time.


                  > Keyboard stuff should be doable using tabbing, but its very ugly and difficult, I agree.

                  Well, you can edit a step with the keyboard but I couldn't find a way to pick another step from the keyboard. But as you say, keyboard editing is currently difficult.


                  >If someone could give me the kind of keyboard things that would help, I'll have a think.

                  My ideal user arp editor would look like something like an Excel spreadsheet. I would like to use the up and down arrows to choose steps and the left and right arrows to choose step attributes (note offset, velocity, etc.) I would like be able to scroll around the grid quickly in this way.

                  Editing would be done in two possible ways:

                  1. Pressing Enter puts you in edit mode for the current cell. Now the same arrow keys let you quickly scroll through possible values. Pressing Enter again saves your change and takes you out of edit mode. Pressing Escape aborts your change without saving.

                  2. Typing a number followed by Enter changes the value for the current cell. For example, if you are currently on the Velocity attribute of a step, typing "105" followed by Enter, would change the velocity to that value.

                  I could spec out other aspects of my ideal editor if you are interested but I realize it would be a lot of work to code. In any case, this should give you some ideas to think about.

                  Regards,
                  Mike
                • steve_the_composer
                  Years ago (as I recall) someone somewhere did a database or speadsheet that would send midi data. Not sure if that was here, but it sounds like something that
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 4, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Years ago (as I recall) someone somewhere did a database or speadsheet that would send midi data. Not sure if that was here, but it sounds like something that might be usable for on-the-fly pattern editing. I will see if I can find the source.

                    --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "analogsignal@..." <analogsignal@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" <emigr8@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I have got it to crash now. Hmmm. Not sure why. My crash is something to do with tooltips, I think. Your crash sounds like a different one. I'll play and see if I can reproduce that as well.
                    >
                    > For some reason, it is very easy to reproduce on my system. Why don't you attach some code to the Unhandled Exception event and do a stack dump to a file? I could then send you the file.
                    >
                    >
                    > > Unfortunately, I am in the process of upgrading my DAW and don't yet have any dev tools on the machine (the disks are not at home at the moment). I'll take a look later this week, when I get back up and running properly.
                    >
                    > Thanks, no hurry. Only if you have time.
                    >
                    >
                    > > Keyboard stuff should be doable using tabbing, but its very ugly and difficult, I agree.
                    >
                    > Well, you can edit a step with the keyboard but I couldn't find a way to pick another step from the keyboard. But as you say, keyboard editing is currently difficult.
                    >
                    >
                    > >If someone could give me the kind of keyboard things that would help, I'll have a think.
                    >
                    > My ideal user arp editor would look like something like an Excel spreadsheet. I would like to use the up and down arrows to choose steps and the left and right arrows to choose step attributes (note offset, velocity, etc.) I would like be able to scroll around the grid quickly in this way.
                    >
                    > Editing would be done in two possible ways:
                    >
                    > 1. Pressing Enter puts you in edit mode for the current cell. Now the same arrow keys let you quickly scroll through possible values. Pressing Enter again saves your change and takes you out of edit mode. Pressing Escape aborts your change without saving.
                    >
                    > 2. Typing a number followed by Enter changes the value for the current cell. For example, if you are currently on the Velocity attribute of a step, typing "105" followed by Enter, would change the velocity to that value.
                    >
                    > I could spec out other aspects of my ideal editor if you are interested but I realize it would be a lot of work to code. In any case, this should give you some ideas to think about.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Mike
                    >
                  • duncan
                    ... agreed, but I arrived at a standard that I stick to, which works for me... ymmv, as they say. without getting too specific, I use the 12 tuning tables to
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >>Not being able to name a tuning is a bit annoying.<<

                      agreed, but I arrived at a "standard" that I stick to, which works for me... ymmv, as they say. without getting too specific, I use the 12 tuning tables to make "shapes" of certain scales, by flattening the same notes in each octave for each table.

                      table one being a relative minor, table two being a phrygian...

                      *so the tuning table sets the scale, the transpose sets the absolute pitch, & between them they establish the key of a patch.*

                      I can have a Cm patch & an Am patch that use the same tuning table, but when I play a C into the Am patch, it plays an A instead.

                      then I create vanilla patches which are named for both the scale of the tuning table and also for the transpose, which is set in the edit menu of the preset. then it's just a case of editing those patches (changing the waveforms & so on) & resaving them.

                      so I have a Dm sqr pulse, an Am sawtooth, a Cm marimba, & so on.

                      now, how useful this is to other folks I don't know, but I use this technique with a doepfer maq sequencer, & it means the sequencer can play the right notes in any key we want, without any external quantisation or transposition being applied.

                      I originally had a tuning table where every note was detuned by 3 or 4 semitones to achieve an Am scale. imagine how I kicked myself when I realised I could just transpose the Cm scale down. :-)

                      d.
                    • analogsignal@ymail.com
                      Does anyone know if using a tuning table changes the pitches of the notes that the CS transmits over MIDI?
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Does anyone know if using a tuning table changes the pitches of the notes that the CS transmits over MIDI?
                      • analogsignal@ymail.com
                        ... While it sounds interesting, it would not help me since I am using Proteum to edit the CS arps. I still like using the CS as a sequencer / arp player.
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Years ago (as I recall) someone somewhere did a database or speadsheet that would send midi data. Not sure if that was here, but it sounds like something that might be usable for on-the-fly pattern editing. I will see if I can find the source.

                          While it sounds interesting, it would not help me since I am using Proteum to edit the CS arps. I still like using the CS as a sequencer / arp player.
                        • duncan
                          ... definitely NOT. would be nice, though... :-)
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >>Does anyone know if using a tuning table changes the pitches of the notes that the CS transmits over MIDI?<<

                            definitely NOT. would be nice, though... :-)
                          • emigr8
                            Its been a long day, but I ve found the problem. It s a very boring memory overwrite cause by another maximum/minimum error in the P2K. If you ask it for
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Its been a long day, but I've found the problem. It's a very boring memory overwrite cause by another maximum/minimum error in the P2K. If you ask it for max/min of the ARP_PATTERN_STEP_SELECT it gives you 0 and 32, where it should be 0 and 31. Oh dear.

                              The fix is a bit more complicated as I am finding bits of code that seem to partially work round it and other bits that rely on the values given. My bad. Anyway, I'll get back when I have worked out the best way to fix.

                              Also, you idea of presenting it as a data grid sounds kind of neat. I might play with that the next time I get any time off. Bedtime now, though.
                              Regards,
                              Keith

                              --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "analogsignal@..." <analogsignal@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" <emigr8@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I have got it to crash now. Hmmm. Not sure why. My crash is something to do with tooltips, I think. Your crash sounds like a different one. I'll play and see if I can reproduce that as well.
                              >
                              > For some reason, it is very easy to reproduce on my system. Why don't you attach some code to the Unhandled Exception event and do a stack dump to a file? I could then send you the file.
                              >
                              >
                              > > Unfortunately, I am in the process of upgrading my DAW and don't yet have any dev tools on the machine (the disks are not at home at the moment). I'll take a look later this week, when I get back up and running properly.
                              >
                              > Thanks, no hurry. Only if you have time.
                              >
                              >
                              > > Keyboard stuff should be doable using tabbing, but its very ugly and difficult, I agree.
                              >
                              > Well, you can edit a step with the keyboard but I couldn't find a way to pick another step from the keyboard. But as you say, keyboard editing is currently difficult.
                              >
                              >
                              > >If someone could give me the kind of keyboard things that would help, I'll have a think.
                              >
                              > My ideal user arp editor would look like something like an Excel spreadsheet. I would like to use the up and down arrows to choose steps and the left and right arrows to choose step attributes (note offset, velocity, etc.) I would like be able to scroll around the grid quickly in this way.
                              >
                              > Editing would be done in two possible ways:
                              >
                              > 1. Pressing Enter puts you in edit mode for the current cell. Now the same arrow keys let you quickly scroll through possible values. Pressing Enter again saves your change and takes you out of edit mode. Pressing Escape aborts your change without saving.
                              >
                              > 2. Typing a number followed by Enter changes the value for the current cell. For example, if you are currently on the Velocity attribute of a step, typing "105" followed by Enter, would change the velocity to that value.
                              >
                              > I could spec out other aspects of my ideal editor if you are interested but I realize it would be a lot of work to code. In any case, this should give you some ideas to think about.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Mike
                              >
                            • analogsignal@ymail.com
                              ... Thanks for tracking it down. Looking forward to the fix. ... Yes, it s an idea if you have free time at some point. Just eliminating the crashes would be
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "emigr8" <emigr8@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Its been a long day, but I've found the problem. It's a very boring memory overwrite cause by another maximum/minimum error in the P2K.

                                Thanks for tracking it down. Looking forward to the fix.


                                > Also, you idea of presenting it as a data grid sounds kind of neat. I might play with that the next time I get any time off.

                                Yes, it's an idea if you have free time at some point. Just eliminating the crashes would be a huge improvement.

                                Regards,
                                Mike
                              • analogsignal@ymail.com
                                ... Oh well. That s what I suspected. Thanks anyway.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 5, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <goddard.duncan@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >>Does anyone know if using a tuning table changes the pitches of the notes that the CS transmits over MIDI?<<
                                  >
                                  > definitely NOT. would be nice, though... :-)
                                  >

                                  Oh well. That's what I suspected. Thanks anyway.
                                • steve_the_composer
                                  Excellent tips!!!! (BTW, if you ever want to share your bank of tuning tables, feel free to create a folder for Tuning Dumps and upload it.) Steve
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 9, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Excellent tips!!!!

                                    (BTW, if you ever want to share your bank of tuning tables, feel free to create a folder for Tuning Dumps and upload it.)

                                    Steve


                                    --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <goddard.duncan@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >>Not being able to name a tuning is a bit annoying.<<
                                    >
                                    > agreed, but I arrived at a "standard" that I stick to, which works for me... ymmv, as they say. without getting too specific, I use the 12 tuning tables to make "shapes" of certain scales, by flattening the same notes in each octave for each table.
                                    >
                                    > table one being a relative minor, table two being a phrygian...
                                    >
                                    > *so the tuning table sets the scale, the transpose sets the absolute pitch, & between them they establish the key of a patch.*
                                    >
                                    > I can have a Cm patch & an Am patch that use the same tuning table, but when I play a C into the Am patch, it plays an A instead.
                                    >
                                    > then I create vanilla patches which are named for both the scale of the tuning table and also for the transpose, which is set in the edit menu of the preset. then it's just a case of editing those patches (changing the waveforms & so on) & resaving them.
                                    >
                                    > so I have a Dm sqr pulse, an Am sawtooth, a Cm marimba, & so on.
                                    >
                                    > now, how useful this is to other folks I don't know, but I use this technique with a doepfer maq sequencer, & it means the sequencer can play the right notes in any key we want, without any external quantisation or transposition being applied.
                                    >
                                    > I originally had a tuning table where every note was detuned by 3 or 4 semitones to achieve an Am scale. imagine how I kicked myself when I realised I could just transpose the Cm scale down. :-)
                                    >
                                    > d.
                                    >
                                  • duncan
                                    ... hmmm.... I didn t know I could do that. prob ly be a good idea to archive the sys-ex somewhere anyway- it s a lot of work to have to do again... :-) I ll
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 10, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      >>create a folder for Tuning Dumps and upload it.<<

                                      hmmm.... I didn't know I could do that. prob'ly be a good idea to archive the sys-ex somewhere anyway- it's a lot of work to have to do again... :-)

                                      I'll get onto it soon.

                                      d.
                                    • steve_the_composer
                                      I created a folder in the Files section called Tuning Tables. Unfortunately, the only option when saving them as sysex midi data is to save the whole bank of
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 11, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I created a folder in the Files section called Tuning Tables.

                                        Unfortunately, the only option when saving them as sysex midi data is to save the whole bank of 12 user tuning tables. They can not be saved and reloaded inditividually (unless Keith, Jan, or anyone else has put that feature in their software).

                                        So, if anyone uploads a bank of tuning tables and others want to test them out, they need to be sure to save their own tuning tables before uploading new ones.

                                        I haven't looked at the tuning tables sysex in ages, but I think it is one continugous dump; I will double check this.

                                        Steve

                                        --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "duncan" <goddard.duncan@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >>create a folder for Tuning Dumps and upload it.<<
                                        >
                                        > hmmm.... I didn't know I could do that. prob'ly be a good idea to archive the sys-ex somewhere anyway- it's a lot of work to have to do again... :-)
                                        >
                                        > I'll get onto it soon.
                                        >
                                        > d.
                                        >
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.