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Re: [xTransit] More on Will maintenance keep 15-year old publictransportbuses clean?

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  • Eric Bruun
    I thought I was referring only to those who were scraping by. I sure wouldn t want to help a management team that was doing well. Eric
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 2, 2006
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      I thought I was referring only to those who were scraping by. I sure wouldn't want to help
      a management team that was doing well. Eric

      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Guevarra@unspecified-domain, Joselito Lomada@unspecified-domain
      >Sent: Feb 2, 2006 5:11 AM
      >To: xTransit@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [xTransit] More on Will maintenance keep 15-year old publictransportbuses clean?
      >
      >
      >
      >Eric,
      >
      >
      >
      >Foreign aid?! You must be joking right? The Philippines doesn't need aid to
      >keep their ageing buses running. Yes, you're right. I too would choose to
      >feed my family than care about the environment. But you see the private
      >operators in the Phils are not scraping by, they're making huge profits by
      >scrimping on maintenance, salaries and benefits of drivers and bus
      >conductors (the one who diligently collects the fares). It is they who need
      >the aid, not the bus companies.
      >
      >
      >
      >This is all interesting and we can go on with the technological fixes and
      >stuff but it ain't worth a dime unless governance reforms come first. This
      >is the most important thing and not finding out ways to keep those filthy
      >buses running.
      >
      >
      >
      >Jojo
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      >From: sustran-discuss-bounces+cvegjl==nus.edu.sg@...
      >[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+cvegjl==nus.edu.sg@...] On
      >Behalf Of Eric Bruun
      >Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 AM
      >To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport; 'Asia and the Pacific
      >sustainable transport'
      >Subject: [sustran] More on Will maintenance keep 15-year old public
      >transportbuses clean?
      >
      >
      >
      >To add to what Walter said:
      >
      >
      >
      >I think that it is not the bus chassis so much that is at issue, but the
      >drive train. A bus that is not corroded and well-maintained can have a new
      >or rebuilt engine installed at mide-life and it will function largely like a
      >new one up to 15 years old. After that, they start to have lots of other
      >maintenance issues, as well, as the engine and transmission.
      >
      >
      >
      >If it is not a purpose-built bus, but a truck chassis with a bus body added,
      >its life will be much shorter than 15 years, no matter what. Anything
      >without air suspension, and that frequently operates overloaded will destroy
      >both the chassis and the drive train.
      >
      >
      >
      >Also, retrofitting a particulate trap onto the exhaust is one of the single
      >most important things to do! Particulates are where diesels are inferior to
      >petrol and CNG engines. This is the type of foriegn aid that should be given
      >immediately.
      >
      >
      >
      >One more thing. It is unrealistic to expect a service that operates without
      >subsidies and where the owner/operator is living at a subistence level to
      >maintain buses well. If I were them, I would choose feeding my family over
      >cleaning the fuel injectors and air filters. So, pollution can not be
      >separated from the operating economics that prevail. In my opinion, anyone
      >who supports laizzez faire for public transport doesn't care about the
      >environment very much.
      >
      >
      >
      >Eric Bruun
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Walter Hook
      >Sent: Feb 1, 2006 10:06 AM
      >To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
      >Subject: [sustran] Re: Fw: [cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year
      >oldpublictransport buses clean?
      >
      >I am not an expert in this, but i do know that in most US cities transit
      >authorities receiving money from the US Federal Transit Admin must use buses
      >10 years old or younger, after which they are sold to a company in LA that
      >parks them on a huge lot and sells them to smaller towns and foreign
      >countries. What FTA says is that some 10 year old buses that are well
      >maintained are no more polluting than much newer buses, and that the 10 year
      >cut off is arbitrary and that simply testing the tailpipe emissions and
      >having road worthiness testing would be more efficient, but enforcement of
      >such measures seems to be beyond the capacity of many countries and I would
      >assume this includes the Philippines, hence the need for a sub-optimal age
      >restriction. They can probably resell the vehicles outside Manila where
      >there are lower concentrations of ambient air pollution.
      >
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook==itdp.org@...
      >[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook==itdp.org@...] On Behalf
      >Of Brendan Finn
      >Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:00 AM
      >To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
      >Subject: [sustran] Re: Fw: [cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year
      >oldpublictransport buses clean?
      >
      >
      >
      >Dear Aurora,
      >
      >
      >
      >In my opinion, the simple answer is that a good preventive maintenance
      >regime will keep the buses a lot cleaner than they would be in the absence
      >of such a regime. I don't know what you define as "clean", I would take the
      >benchmark as the performance you should expect in the first five years if
      >the vehicle is maintained in line with the manufacturer's recommendations.
      >
      >
      >
      >I presume the scenario refers either to an existing stock of buses or to a
      >proposal to buy in second-hand vehicles which are being replaced in another
      >country (perhaps currently 10-15 years old), and that there is concern
      >locally about the future emissions based on past experience with the
      >operators. At the risk of interfering where I don't know the context, I
      >would suggest that there are five factors which could assure good
      >performance from older vehicles :
      >
      >
      >
      >a) Clearly defined emission standards which are practical, realistic, and
      >measurable
      >
      >b) An enforcement regime that can detect violating vehicles and impose
      >escalating penalties on their owners
      >
      >c) A regime of preventive maintenance within the operating companies that
      >supports a vehicle throughout its working life (provide some technical
      >assistance if needed)
      >
      >d) Sufficiently strong incentives for companies to include emissions-related
      >work and testing within such a regime
      >
      >e) Incentives for operating companies to replace their vehicles when good
      >maintenance can no longer possible keep them within specifications (and, of
      >course, ensure that these vehicles are scrapped rather than sold on
      >somewhere else)
      >
      >
      >
      >On one issue I would be cautious. In some places I have seen the arguments
      >about old or clean buses used as a pretext for other actions. For example, I
      >have seen it used to drive small operating companies and owner-drivers off
      >the road to the advantage of the state-owned enterprises, and in other cases
      >as criteria on routes tenders to quite effectively eliminate the competition
      >in the pre-qualification stages. I think it is important to keep the agenda
      >'clean' as well as the buses!
      >
      >
      >
      >If you assemble the various inputs into a briefing note, I would be
      >interested to receive it.
      >
      >
      >
      >With best wishes,
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Brendan Finn.
      >
      >____________________________________________________________________________
      >_________
      >>From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd. e-mail : etts@... tel :
      >+353.87.2530286
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >
      >From: aables@...
      >
      >To: sustran-discuss@...
      >
      >Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:40 AM
      >
      >Subject: [sustran] Fw: [cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year old
      >publictransport buses clean?
      >
      >
      >
      >Dear SUSTRAN friends,
      >
      >We thought you might have something to say on this topic. Please see below.
      >
      >Best regards,
      >
      >Au
      >
      >Aurora Fe Ables
      >Transport Researcher
      >Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
      >Asian Development Bank
      >Tel (632) 632-4444 ext. 70820
      >Fax (632) 636-2381
      >Email aables@...
      >http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
      >
      >www.adb.org
      >
      >----- Forwarded by Aurora Ables/Consultants/ADB on 01-02-2006 11:27 AM -----
      >
      >
      >
      >gbathan@...
      >
      >01-02-2006 10:40 AM
      >
      >
      >Please respond to
      >cai-asia@...
      >
      >
      >To
      >
      >"Clean Air Initiative -- Asia" <cai-asia@...>
      >
      >
      >cc
      >
      >hfabian@..., "Bebet Gozun" <bggozun@...>, chuizenga@...,
      >majero@..., mrco@..., aables@...
      >
      >
      >Subject
      >
      >[cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year old public transport buses clean?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Dear friends,
      >
      >In a stakeholder meeting held in the Philippines last week, CAI-Asia was
      >asked to request inputs through the listserv to the question -- "Will
      >vehicle maintenance ensure that 15-year old public transport buses remain
      >non-polluting?" 15 years here means 15 years from the date of engine
      >manufacture.
      >
      >Your inputs would be greatly appreciated.
      >
      >Glynda
      >
      >Glynda Bathan
      >Coordinator
      >Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
      >Asian Development Bank
      >Tel (632) 632-5151
      >Fax (632) 636-2381
      >http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
      >
      >www.adb.org
      >
      >Aurora Fe Ables
      >Transport Researcher
      >Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
      >Asian Development Bank
      >Tel (632) 632-4444 ext. 70820
      >Fax (632) 636-2381
      >Email aables@...
      >http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
      >.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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