Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [WWWEDU] Content Filtering Resources

Expand Messages
  • Punderson, IV, James
    Hello Joshua, Even though I work for the company that designed and markets the SecureSchool filter, I will nonetheless endeavor to give you some worthwhile
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 5, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Joshua,

      Even though I work for the company that designed and markets the
      SecureSchool filter, I will nonetheless endeavor to give you some
      worthwhile information. <g>

      Filtering and Religious institutions:
      We have a couple of hundred schools and libraries using our filtering
      and to the best of my knowledge, not a single one of them, public or
      private, religious or secular, ever asked about whether our company
      and/or the filtering had any political, religious or any other
      particular orientation or affiliation. From that I conclude that,
      rightly or wrongly, in terms of concern to folks ordering filtering, it
      is a currently a complete non-issue except to folks like us here on this
      list. Now perhaps your thesis will change that state of affairs... <g>

      Non E-Rate motivated filtering:
      Our company, Networks & More!, has acted as a technology advisor to
      schools well before the E-Rate program started and I can tell you that
      just as soon as schools started getting Internet access here in NJ at
      least, they started asking about ways to block objectionable material.

      Prior to E-Rate, I would guess that about half the schools we came in
      contact with wanted filtering when they first got Internet access. The
      longer they had Internet access and the further it spread out in their
      schools (making effective adult supervision harder), the higher the
      percentage that wanted filtering. The triggering event was usually
      something nasty being accessed that children told their parents about
      who started complaining to the school. So, at least in my experience,
      E-Rate mandated filtering was more of a issue for libraries; for
      schools, they were already doing it.

      Types of filtering:
      Again, based on the 200 or so public school districts, private schools
      and libraries using the filtering, almost without exception, the schools
      filter a lot more than nasty stuff. They frequently block advertising,
      outside e-mail programs, chat areas, game sites, drug use sites, alcohol
      sites, violence sites, unfiltered image search sites, video and other
      file download sites and anything else they consider "time-wasting" or
      R-rated. In other words, they want access to what they consider are
      sites complementing the educational program and don't think twice about
      blocking everything else (unless someone complains about a particular
      site being blocked). I would say in summary, that if the school would be
      uncomfortable having parents watch children accessing a site during
      school time, the school would like to block it.

      Minimum CIPA compliance:
      Using a technology measure (hardware or software), ALL Internet
      connected computers are to try to block access to graphic images that
      are (a) harmful to minors (required to be blocked for children only),
      (b)child pornography (blocked for children and adults) and/or (C)obscene
      (blocked for children and adults). No other filtering is REQUIRED. Note
      no blocking of any text whatever is required. Temporary exceptions for
      bona fide research and other lawful purposes for adults are also
      mentioned.

      So, in my experience, most blocking which is blamed on CIPA
      requirements, isn't actually required and schools, at least, would
      probably have been doing pretty much the same filtering anyway, at least
      on children's computers.

      Hope this helps,

      James Punderson, CEO
      K12USA.com -- "Cool Tools For Schools"
      http://www.k12usa.com <http://www.k12usa.com/>
      Mailto:jpunderson@... <mailto:jpunderson@...>


      _____

      From: artifex144 [mailto:jburke@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:46
      To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [WWWEDU] Content Filtering Resources



      Hello everyone,

      I'm in the midst of writing a thesis on internet filtering and
      education. I know that we've talked about filtering before in
      this
      group but I'd like to get some links from you if possible. I'm
      looking for info on the following:

      The connection between filtering and religious institutions
      The role of filtering in education (why do it other than e-rate)
      content restriction vs. good decisions
      What types of filtering are going on in schools
      What is the absolute minimum requirement to comply with CIPA

      When I google on these sorts of things I get vendor sites so I'm
      not
      turning up the quality information I want. Research articles
      are
      preferred but any good discussion of the various positions is
      appreciated.

      Also, wasn't there someone here who was doing a seminar or book
      on
      filtering, former teacher? I'd like to talk with you if I
      could.

      Thank you,

      Joshua Burke <jburke@...>








      WWWEDU, The Web and Education Discussion Group
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu
      http://www.edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html




      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      ADVERTISEMENT
      click here
      <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129220qfa/M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/
      D=groups/S=1705082178:HM/EXP=1097079177/A=2376776/R=0/SIG=11ldm1jvc/*htt
      p://promotions.yahoo.com/ydomains2004/index.html>

      <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=group
      s/S=:HM/A=2376776/rand=667853669>


      _____

      Yahoo! Groups Links


      * To visit your group on the web, go to:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu/

      * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

      * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
      of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Claude Almansi
      Hello, Joshua If you search this list s archive for filter and circumventor , it should turn up a bunch of messages on filtering and education, with many
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 6, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello, Joshua

        If you search this list's archive for "filter" and "circumventor", it
        should turn up a bunch of messages on filtering and education, with many
        links. Re the former teacher you mention, maybe you were thinking of
        Nancy Willard of CSRIU.org?

        Putting "Ben Edelman" and "H2K2" in Google should also turn up
        interesting resources
        --
        Claude Almansi
        www.adisi.ch
        claude.almansi@...
        091 829 04 51
        076 401 85 69
      • Web Manager
        Thanks James, Thanks for being upfront about your vendor status. That goes a long way in our book. I would agree that many schools are using CIPA as a
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 6, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks James,

          Thanks for being upfront about your vendor status. That goes a long way in
          our book.

          I would agree that many schools are using CIPA as a catch-all to justify
          other types of filtering and I would also agree that content other than what
          CIPA requires is being included. I don't think my thesis will be changing
          the focus of filtering to a 'wall of separation' issue :-) My real thesis
          point is how do we solve the problem further *even if* a local decision
          making effort is made without asking the technology to think for them. I
          see it as simply a different shift in responsibility as opposed to 'better'
          it's just different. It still comes down to a people issue and people have
          bias.

          The issue of over-involvement of conservative groups in schools is a
          secondary issue to this. You say it is a 'non-issue' but what if filtering
          technology was programmed by a company affiliated with pedophile or ritual
          suicide resources? I bet it would cease to be a non-issue then :-) What
          you're actually saying is that most people that you provide filtering to are
          either in agreement with the standards used or are unaware of the issue
          entirely.

          As an example, if we try and define 'pornography' what constitutes something
          being pornographic? It's one of those things that defies definition but you
          'know it when you see it'. What about a legal definition of it? The Larry
          Flynt's of the world are having a heyday with our inability to nail down
          what does and does not have 'artistic or cultural value'.

          Another example, 'damaging to minors' what does that mean? What exactly is
          damaging to a minor? Doesn't it depend upon the minor and their upbringing?
          My best friend in Junior High got a copy of the 'Anarchist's Cookbook' and
          his dad found the print-out. Back then it was only passed around hush-hush
          on floppy disk :-) This book would definitely constitute information that
          could be potentially harmful to a minor or others in the way of physical
          injury as well as thinking about destroying a school or injuring classmates.

          My best friend's dad was a Marine Corps special ops sergeant; tough as
          nails. He took us both aside and walked us through the book showing us
          exactly where we would get our heads or fingers blown off and what was
          completely inaccurate. Mind you, he did not correct the mis-information, he
          just made sure we were scared to death to try any of it. Then, he let him
          keep the book.

          Was that data still harmful to us or others? I doubt it. Information is
          just information. It's the actions, attitudes and perceptions it produces
          that are harmful. That book was then a terrific source of amusement for us,
          especially when we would hear of other boys getting this 'illegal book' from
          *hacking* ARPANET (yes, I'm old).

          It's just an example of my point. Choices are the key not restriction.
          That is the thesis, sort of.

          Joshua

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Punderson, IV, James [mailto:jpunderson@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:18 PM
          To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [WWWEDU] Content Filtering Resources




          Hello Joshua,

          Even though I work for the company that designed and markets the
          SecureSchool filter, I will nonetheless endeavor to give you some
          worthwhile information. <g>

          Filtering and Religious institutions:
          We have a couple of hundred schools and libraries using our filtering
          and to the best of my knowledge, not a single one of them, public or
          private, religious or secular, ever asked about whether our company
          and/or the filtering had any political, religious or any other
          particular orientation or affiliation. From that I conclude that,
          rightly or wrongly, in terms of concern to folks ordering filtering, it
          is a currently a complete non-issue except to folks like us here on this
          list. Now perhaps your thesis will change that state of affairs... <g>

          Non E-Rate motivated filtering:
          Our company, Networks & More!, has acted as a technology advisor to
          schools well before the E-Rate program started and I can tell you that
          just as soon as schools started getting Internet access here in NJ at
          least, they started asking about ways to block objectionable material.

          Prior to E-Rate, I would guess that about half the schools we came in
          contact with wanted filtering when they first got Internet access. The
          longer they had Internet access and the further it spread out in their
          schools (making effective adult supervision harder), the higher the
          percentage that wanted filtering. The triggering event was usually
          something nasty being accessed that children told their parents about
          who started complaining to the school. So, at least in my experience,
          E-Rate mandated filtering was more of a issue for libraries; for
          schools, they were already doing it.

          Types of filtering:
          Again, based on the 200 or so public school districts, private schools
          and libraries using the filtering, almost without exception, the schools
          filter a lot more than nasty stuff. They frequently block advertising,
          outside e-mail programs, chat areas, game sites, drug use sites, alcohol
          sites, violence sites, unfiltered image search sites, video and other
          file download sites and anything else they consider "time-wasting" or
          R-rated. In other words, they want access to what they consider are
          sites complementing the educational program and don't think twice about
          blocking everything else (unless someone complains about a particular
          site being blocked). I would say in summary, that if the school would be
          uncomfortable having parents watch children accessing a site during
          school time, the school would like to block it.

          Minimum CIPA compliance:
          Using a technology measure (hardware or software), ALL Internet
          connected computers are to try to block access to graphic images that
          are (a) harmful to minors (required to be blocked for children only),
          (b)child pornography (blocked for children and adults) and/or (C)obscene
          (blocked for children and adults). No other filtering is REQUIRED. Note
          no blocking of any text whatever is required. Temporary exceptions for
          bona fide research and other lawful purposes for adults are also
          mentioned.

          So, in my experience, most blocking which is blamed on CIPA
          requirements, isn't actually required and schools, at least, would
          probably have been doing pretty much the same filtering anyway, at least
          on children's computers.

          Hope this helps,

          James Punderson, CEO
          K12USA.com -- "Cool Tools For Schools"
          http://www.k12usa.com <http://www.k12usa.com/>
          Mailto:jpunderson@... <mailto:jpunderson@...>


          _____

          From: artifex144 [mailto:jburke@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:46
          To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [WWWEDU] Content Filtering Resources



          Hello everyone,

          I'm in the midst of writing a thesis on internet filtering and
          education. I know that we've talked about filtering before in
          this
          group but I'd like to get some links from you if possible. I'm
          looking for info on the following:

          The connection between filtering and religious institutions
          The role of filtering in education (why do it other than e-rate)
          content restriction vs. good decisions
          What types of filtering are going on in schools
          What is the absolute minimum requirement to comply with CIPA

          When I google on these sorts of things I get vendor sites so I'm
          not
          turning up the quality information I want. Research articles
          are
          preferred but any good discussion of the various positions is
          appreciated.

          Also, wasn't there someone here who was doing a seminar or book
          on
          filtering, former teacher? I'd like to talk with you if I
          could.

          Thank you,

          Joshua Burke <jburke@...>








          WWWEDU, The Web and Education Discussion Group
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu
          http://www.edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html




          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT
          click here
          <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129220qfa/M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/
          D=groups/S=1705082178:HM/EXP=1097079177/A=2376776/R=0/SIG=11ldm1jvc/*htt
          p://promotions.yahoo.com/ydomains2004/index.html>

          <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=group
          s/S=:HM/A=2376776/rand=667853669>


          _____

          Yahoo! Groups Links


          * To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu/

          * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

          * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
          of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          WWWEDU, The Web and Education Discussion Group
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu
          http://www.edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Greene, Dr. Patrick
          From: Punderson, IV, James [mailto:jpunderson@k12usa.com] I would say in summary, that if the school would be uncomfortable having parents watch children
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 6, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            From: Punderson, IV, James [mailto:jpunderson@...]
            I would say in summary, that if the school would be uncomfortable having parents watch children accessing a site during school time, the school would like to block it.

            Thanks James for this revelation. Maybe I am sensitive to these filtering issue because I've read Nancy's posts, here, for a few years. But if schools are using this method of blocking material, then I think they all have serious litigation problems ahead of them. There are parents that object to everything. Seriously, for any particular Internet site, there will be a parent that will think his/her child should not be exposed to that. For instance, I have a neighbor that thinks that the music of "My Fair Lady" is a national disgrace and doesn't want his child exposed <g>.

            Any parent with litigation tendencies can really take the filter agenda of any school to court. Schools/districts need, IMO, to protect themselves because they will, eventually, have to justify the filter choices that they made in court. If not today, certainly tomorrow.

            Patrick Greene, PhD
            Florida Gulf Coast University
            pgreene@...



            -----Original Message-----
            Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:18 PM
            To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [WWWEDU] Content Filtering Resources




            Hello Joshua,

            Even though I work for the company that designed and markets the
            SecureSchool filter, I will nonetheless endeavor to give you some
            worthwhile information. <g>

            Filtering and Religious institutions:
            We have a couple of hundred schools and libraries using our filtering
            and to the best of my knowledge, not a single one of them, public or
            private, religious or secular, ever asked about whether our company
            and/or the filtering had any political, religious or any other
            particular orientation or affiliation. From that I conclude that,
            rightly or wrongly, in terms of concern to folks ordering filtering, it
            is a currently a complete non-issue except to folks like us here on this
            list. Now perhaps your thesis will change that state of affairs... <g>

            Non E-Rate motivated filtering:
            Our company, Networks & More!, has acted as a technology advisor to
            schools well before the E-Rate program started and I can tell you that
            just as soon as schools started getting Internet access here in NJ at
            least, they started asking about ways to block objectionable material.

            Prior to E-Rate, I would guess that about half the schools we came in
            contact with wanted filtering when they first got Internet access. The
            longer they had Internet access and the further it spread out in their
            schools (making effective adult supervision harder), the higher the
            percentage that wanted filtering. The triggering event was usually
            something nasty being accessed that children told their parents about
            who started complaining to the school. So, at least in my experience,
            E-Rate mandated filtering was more of a issue for libraries; for
            schools, they were already doing it.

            Types of filtering:
            Again, based on the 200 or so public school districts, private schools
            and libraries using the filtering, almost without exception, the schools
            filter a lot more than nasty stuff. They frequently block advertising,
            outside e-mail programs, chat areas, game sites, drug use sites, alcohol
            sites, violence sites, unfiltered image search sites, video and other
            file download sites and anything else they consider "time-wasting" or
            R-rated. In other words, they want access to what they consider are
            sites complementing the educational program and don't think twice about
            blocking everything else (unless someone complains about a particular
            site being blocked). I would say in summary, that if the school would be
            uncomfortable having parents watch children accessing a site during
            school time, the school would like to block it.

            Minimum CIPA compliance:
            Using a technology measure (hardware or software), ALL Internet
            connected computers are to try to block access to graphic images that
            are (a) harmful to minors (required to be blocked for children only),
            (b)child pornography (blocked for children and adults) and/or (C)obscene
            (blocked for children and adults). No other filtering is REQUIRED. Note
            no blocking of any text whatever is required. Temporary exceptions for
            bona fide research and other lawful purposes for adults are also
            mentioned.

            So, in my experience, most blocking which is blamed on CIPA
            requirements, isn't actually required and schools, at least, would
            probably have been doing pretty much the same filtering anyway, at least
            on children's computers.

            Hope this helps,

            James Punderson, CEO
            K12USA.com -- "Cool Tools For Schools"
            http://www.k12usa.com <http://www.k12usa.com/>
            Mailto:jpunderson@... <mailto:jpunderson@...>


            _____

            From: artifex144 [mailto:jburke@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:46
            To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [WWWEDU] Content Filtering Resources



            Hello everyone,

            I'm in the midst of writing a thesis on internet filtering and
            education. I know that we've talked about filtering before in
            this
            group but I'd like to get some links from you if possible. I'm
            looking for info on the following:

            The connection between filtering and religious institutions
            The role of filtering in education (why do it other than e-rate)
            content restriction vs. good decisions
            What types of filtering are going on in schools
            What is the absolute minimum requirement to comply with CIPA

            When I google on these sorts of things I get vendor sites so I'm
            not
            turning up the quality information I want. Research articles
            are
            preferred but any good discussion of the various positions is
            appreciated.

            Also, wasn't there someone here who was doing a seminar or book
            on
            filtering, former teacher? I'd like to talk with you if I
            could.

            Thank you,

            Joshua Burke <jburke@...>








            WWWEDU, The Web and Education Discussion Group
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu
            http://www.edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html




            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT
            click here
            <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129220qfa/M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/
            D=groups/S=1705082178:HM/EXP=1097079177/A=2376776/R=0/SIG=11ldm1jvc/*htt
            p://promotions.yahoo.com/ydomains2004/index.html>

            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=group
            s/S=:HM/A=2376776/rand=667853669>


            _____

            Yahoo! Groups Links


            * To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu/

            * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

            * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            WWWEDU, The Web and Education Discussion Group
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwwedu
            http://www.edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Nancy Willard
            ... You should read my article on the constitutionality of the use of proprietary protected filtering software by public institutions. Essentially, the case
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 6, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              >
              > Thanks so much Nancy,
              >
              > I was actually making my way through your site unknowingly. I was browsing
              > through the mirror site at http://responsiblenetizen.org/ This information
              > is terrific and just the launching pad I need. The question that still
              > needs to be answered (in my mind) is *who* determines what is appropriate.
              > By reading through the articles on your site I still see a glaring problem.
              > While we can safely say that administrators are 'passing-the-buck' to
              > technology vendors to make decisions about what is and is not appropriate
              > content what about the flip-side? What if said administrators did take up
              > that right and responsibility? Who then (at the district level) decides
              > what is and isn't appropriate and how do we guard against bias within those
              > local processes? What about the 'conservative religious groups' that are
              > active locally, demanding that access to specific protected information be
              > restricted for their district?
              >

              You should read my article on the constitutionality of the use of
              proprietary protected filtering software by public institutions.

              Essentially, the case law to look at is Pico v Island Trees. In this case
              the school board went to a conservative parent's group and came back with a
              list of books the group said should not be allowed in school. The board
              directed the books be removed from the school library.

              The court said "you can't do that." Actually, they used better words, more
              eloquent, but they essentially said that schools cannot engage in viewpoint
              discrimination. However, the dissent in Pico is even more interesting. They
              said that because the school board is answerable to the local community for
              its decisions, the court should no6=t intervene.

              So with the use of Internet filtering software the Pico case presents an
              interesting situation. First of all, schools are not supposed to restrict
              student's access based on viewpoint discrimination -- which all filtering
              software products do. Secondly, we depend on local school officials to make
              local decisions because these folks can be held accountable to the
              community. Filtering software producers who protect what they block as trade
              secrets cannot be held accountable to the local community.

              So when a case addressing these concerns finally gets to a court, I rather
              suspect the courts will not like what they will find.

              However, the reason the ACLU has not been working along these lines is that
              they are in a conflicted position. This is also why they lost the CIPA case.
              You see, there is another law, COPA, that would place criminal restrictions
              of web sites that did not do age verification. The argument the ACLU is
              using to defeat this law is that filtering software works. This case has
              been remanded. The Supreme Court told the feds that they have to prove that
              filtering software does not work. Interesting position for DOJ to be in. But
              because the ACLU based its case on the premise that filtering software
              works, they did not present the best case they could in CIPA that filtering
              software does not work.

              So none of this is likely to get sorted out until after the Supreme Court
              rules again on COPA.

              Nancy


              --
              Nancy Willard, M.S., J.D.
              Center for Safe and Responsible Internet Use
              http://csriu.org
              nwillard@...
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.