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Re: [WWWEDU] The student-school disconnect

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  • tednellen
    cassie raises a very important issue, which art w also supports and that is the poor tech leadership in our schools. the systems too often are set up badly by
    Message 1 of 78 , Nov 2, 2003
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      cassie raises a very important issue, which art w also supports and that
      is the poor tech leadership in our schools.

      the systems too often are set up badly by unknowing individuals who are
      not teachers and have no idea what is needed in the classroom, nor do they
      ask.

      there is a definite disconnect between the tech part and the teacher part
      making the tech almost useless in the classroom and the results are
      frustration for the student sin the end.

      i've had many an argument with tech folks about my needs. in nyc right now
      we are so far beyond repair it isnt funny. we have taken more steps
      backwards then one could ever imagine. it is one reason i cling to the
      internet and my very basic programs like telnet because no matter what
      they always work and provide me and my scholars access. it may seem
      archaic and we've had these discussins before, but for me access at even
      the lowest level is the key, make the tech invisible or as invisible as
      possible. it is easy to blame much on the tech, but again i have to remind
      myself the tech is not real, not alive, it is dependent upon the user. so
      when i hear someone yell out this computer is stupid it isnt doing what it
      is supposed to do, i sadly remind them the computer is a machine and the
      user controls it. so be careful who or what you call stupid and then tryto
      show the user the simple mistake made and all is then well in the land of
      scholarship. there are of course tech problems but they can be overcome
      with some ease and again i keep it very very simple with such basic
      programs i cant help bt succeed in the worst case scenario, and trust me i
      have been in some pretty bad situations here in nyc.

      i'm sure i could be of assistance, cassie.

      ted



      On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Cassie Kilroy Thompson wrote:

      > On 10/30/03 8:42 AM, "BBracey@..." <BBracey@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I spend a lot of time with professional people in technology, and also with
      > > professors ther are some sinkholes.. and there are those who just have never
      > > had any experience of a meaningful nature using technology and you wonder why?
      >
      >
      > I've been following this thread, doing my usual lurking, and the posts have
      > been helping me to stick to my motto, which is "I learn something new
      > everyday".
      >
      > I'd like to add a little to what Bonnie was saying. I have a slightly
      > different perspective (meaning the hat I wear most often is the "mother of 4
      > students" hat) when I look at the role technology plays in the education of
      > students in Howard County, MD, and how that may play out in other school
      > districts. It is difficult to generalize across all of the schools here
      > because there doesn't appear to be a unified technology plan (although there
      > is one). Having had kids in the system across the span in 4 different
      > schools, though, I am struck by the damage that is being done by staff
      > members who don't know what to do and unfortunately, convey the message to
      > the students that "It's the computer's fault".
      >
      > I've heard students say "You can only use one program at a time when a
      > computer is on a network" (because the tech person didn't know how to set up
      > the network any other way). Teachers have reported that students CAN'T
      > create html portfolios on disk because you can't put CD/RW drives on the
      > network, therefore our technology magnet high school has all students create
      > paper portfolios in 3-ring binders. We have an AUP that puts students at
      > risk of consequences if they "download" files to school computers, even if
      > its because the browser in use accepts all cookies, and the student is
      > unaware of this and has no control over it. As far as I know, this
      > particular rule has never been stretched that far, but I refused to sign the
      > AUP for my two that were in high school so that they technically shouldn't
      > have been able to use the school computers and, in a bizarre link, couldn't
      > be assigned a locker. They did both, however.
      >
      > I could give more examples, but the bottom line is that students in a
      > relatively affluent area are being taught that computers are a problem, a
      > tool that doesn't always work, but hey, isn't it great that we have a bunch
      > of shiny things sitting in a lab that is unused more than it is used. Ted,
      > are you sure you can't help us out down here? ;-)
      >

      --

      Ted Nellen 8-)
      Information Technology HS http://www.tnellen.com/iths/
      Cybrarian http://www.tnellen.com/ted/
      CyberEnglish http://www.tnellen.net/cyberenglish/
      CyberSchool http://www.tnellen.com/alt/

      One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know
      it, you have no certainty until you try.

      ~ Sophocles ~ (BC 495-406, Greek Tragic Poet)
    • tednellen
      Is anyone aware of this being done in Maine after that massive influx of laptops to middle schoolers a few years ago? I have to check with a friend in Idaho
      Message 78 of 78 , Dec 2, 2003
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        Is anyone aware of this being done in Maine after that massive influx of
        laptops to middle schoolers a few years ago?

        I have to check with a friend in Idaho about this as well, as she was
        working on such a project. I know Idaho's six colleges are very active in
        teacher trianing and this online assessment. A former pres of cosn or one
        of those orgs is a leader in the Idaho program: Rogers?

        ted

        On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Greene, Dr. Patrick wrote:

        > From: Janice Friesen [mailto:jfriesen@...]
        > Let's work on seeing something like this happen!
        >
        > Thanks for supporting the idea I have been shopping around for the last 3 or 4 years. The unfortunate aspect of this idea is that it needs a fairly sophisticated and robust database system. Both LiveText and TaskStream now market extensive database systems for online electronic portfolios to be posted by students and to be evaluated by teachers (faculty). We have just started using LiveText here. It would take the expertise of one of these guys to produce a statewide electronic portfolio system. And before that can be initiated, you've got to have someone at the state level with the authority to champion this cause. I guess it could be done at the local level. Maybe LiveText or TaskStream could be convinced to adapt their system to this comparison function.
        >
        > Patrick Greene, PhD
        > Florida Gulf Coast University
        > pgreene@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        >
        > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:54 PM
        > To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [WWWEDU] The student-school disconnect
        >
        >
        > Finally, an alternative to testing. Thanks Patrick. I like the idea. We
        > have just started using a tool for describing a teacher's practices online
        > which is password protected. I have access to a large group of teachers
        > records because I supervise others. Those I supervise have access only to
        > the teacher that they work with and the teachers themselves can only look a
        > their own records. So, I can imagine what you are describing. I like the
        > idea that it would be possible to look at artifacts of others without
        > identifying information so that there would be comparison information
        > available.
        >
        >
        >
        > Janice
        > jfriesen@...
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Greene, Dr. Patrick" <pgreene@...>
        > To: <wwwedu@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:23 PM
        > Subject: RE: [WWWEDU] The student-school disconnect
        >
        >
        > > From: Art Wolinsky [mailto:awolinsky@...]
        > > >Instead of tests that measure useless factual knowledge, they need
        > replaced by tests that measure learning.
        > >
        > > Putting my keyboard where my mouth is, I would like to share a more modern
        > means of evaluating scholars (Ted has constrained me to use this most
        > appropriate term) that fits with what we know about multiple intelligences
        > and learning styles. This would be a state-wide web-based electronic
        > portfolio system geared to the state standards that are applicable for an
        > individual student. Each student would upload artifact(s) that show his/her
        > mastery of each standard in the particular learning level at which s/he is
        > working. From this point:
        > >
        > > 1. The teacher of record would evaluate each artifact online, according to
        > a scale developed by the state Dept. of Education to evaluate online
        > artifacts.
        > > 2. Parents would have password access to their student(s) artifacts and
        > evaluations.
        > > 3. Parents would also have access to other student artifacts in the same
        > grade level, both from his/her child's class, and from other classrooms
        > around the state. But, the student identities would not be accessible by
        > interested parents. They would have artifacts to compare to their child's
        > artifacts, but would not be able to identify the other students.
        > > 4. This facility would be open to administrators of all ilks also = access
        > to artifacts but access to students identities only from their school, and
        > only students under their auspices.
        > > 5. Teachers would be randomly assigned to evaluate other student artifacts
        > from around the state. This would be developed to spread the evaluation of
        > student work evenly among the state's teaching cadre.
        > >
        > > We've been talking about trashing the 19th century evaluation method
        > called standardized testing and replacing it with something more 21st
        > Century. I would appreciate if those of you interested in things like this
        > would give me on or offlist feedback. BTW, I don't consider this to be a
        > pie-in-the-sky concept. The College of Ed at FGCU is using a LIvetext
        > (college.livetext.com) online evaluation system now, as are many COE around
        > the country. So, the technology is already here. How long will it take the
        > education monopoly to realize this fact?
        > >
        > > Patrick Greene, PhD
        > > Florida Gulf Coast University
        > > pgreene@...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        > >
        > > To access the archive, please visit the list homepage:
        > > http://edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List
        >
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        >
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        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List
        >
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        >
        > To access the archive, please visit the list homepage:
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        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >

        --

        Ted Nellen 8-) English
        Information Technology HS http://www.tnellen.com/iths/
        Cybrarian http://www.tnellen.com/ted/
        CyberEnglish http://www.tnellen.net/cyberenglish/
        CyberSchool http://www.tnellen.com/alt/

        One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know
        it, you have no certainty until you try.

        ~ Sophocles ~ (BC 495-406, Greek Tragic Poet)
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