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RE: [WWWEDU] First Grade Technology Projects

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  • tednellen
    Noah, you raise an importnat concept here. However, for some learners the physical use of the computer is actually excellent for them becuase they are tapping
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 10, 2003
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      Noah,

      you raise an importnat concept here. However, for some learners the
      physical use of the computer is actually excellent for them becuase they
      are tapping the kinetic aspect of learning, not achieved in a non-tech
      classroom. my children all were labeled LD, because in the non tech
      classroom they just couldnt function with directions from the teacher and
      do it in the traditional way. they were labeled failures based on this one
      approach. I fought hard and long for them to get access to the computers
      and bingo, they were no longer LD because they could function. I have a 9
      year old who cant write, but he can touch type. he likes school now, when
      before he hated it.

      careful in not using the tech for those students who seem to be "not
      getting it" in our non tech traditional classrooms. we all do not learn in
      the same way and the tech allows us to experiment with alternative ways of
      delivery and production and in the end benefits all of our students.

      tednellen

      On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Noah Kravitz wrote:

      > Hi
      >
      > I'm the tech specialist at a k-4 school. Previous to this year, I'd
      > taught grades 3-12 (and adults), so the younger grades are a new
      > challenge to me. I have mixed feelings about putting younger kids in
      > front of screens -- I really feel like they'll get plenty of that later
      > in life and should be doing more physical activities at this age -- but
      > the school has technology classes blocked out for ALL of the grades, so
      > I try to bring technology off of the screen and into the physical realm
      > sometimes.
      >

      --

      Ted Nellen 8-)
      Information Technology HS http://www.tnellen.com/iths/
      Cybrarian http://www.tnellen.com/ted/
      CyberEnglish http://www.tnellen.net/cyberenglish/
      CyberSchool http://www.tnellen.com/alt/

      One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know
      it, you have no certainty until you try.

      ~ Sophocles ~ (BC 495-406, Greek Tragic Poet)
    • Noah Kravitz
      Yes, it s a tricky issue. I teach one 2/3 inclusion/bridge class (forgive my ignorance of the terminology; it s a mixed grade, mixed special ed /non-special
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 10, 2003
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        Yes, it's a tricky issue. I teach one 2/3 inclusion/bridge class
        (forgive my ignorance of the terminology; it's a mixed grade, mixed
        "special ed"/non-special ed class). Like the other students in the
        school but perhaps even moreso, when they get in front of the computers,
        they snap almost totally into focus and it's really pretty amazing to
        see the amount that their concentration level jumps and the pride they
        take in whatever they're doing

        So I definitely understand your point

        For me it's not a settled issue by any means ... A lot of it, I think,
        comes from my feeling that -- as the cliché goes -- kids are growing up
        even faster now than ever. They're exposed to so much media,
        television, etc (especially in the hyper-consumer setting of New York
        City) that the last thing they need is more time in front of a screen.
        They have so many problems just dealing with their own bodies and
        interacting with each other -- walking to and from the park is an
        enormous chore for them right now -- that I don't want the "computer
        drug" to be an isolating solution to the problem of navigating the
        social waters of learning to cooperate, collaborate, and resolve
        interpersonal conflicts

        And while there are certainly ways to deal with these issues in front of
        the computer, I also think that learning to play on a team or share a
        ball or help each other cross the street is more important to many a
        seven year old's development than learning to work a mouse (even in
        tandem).

        But I don't have all that much experience backing my opinion up, and
        it's already changed some over the past month ;-)

        cheers
        - - -
        Noah Kravitz
        Educational Technology Specialist
        Amber Charter School :: Escuela Autorizada Ámbar
        (212)534-9667 Ext.120
        nkravitz@...
        ambercharter.echalk.com


        -----Original Message-----
        From: tednellen [mailto:tnellen@...]
        Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 11:46 AM
        To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [WWWEDU] First Grade Technology Projects

        Noah,

        you raise an importnat concept here. However, for some learners the
        physical use of the computer is actually excellent for them becuase they

        are tapping the kinetic aspect of learning, not achieved in a non-tech
        classroom. my children all were labeled LD, because in the non tech
        classroom they just couldnt function with directions from the teacher
        and
        do it in the traditional way. they were labeled failures based on this
        one
        approach. I fought hard and long for them to get access to the computers

        and bingo, they were no longer LD because they could function. I have a
        9
        year old who cant write, but he can touch type. he likes school now,
        when
        before he hated it.

        careful in not using the tech for those students who seem to be "not
        getting it" in our non tech traditional classrooms. we all do not learn
        in
        the same way and the tech allows us to experiment with alternative ways
        of
        delivery and production and in the end benefits all of our students.

        tednellen

        On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Noah Kravitz wrote:

        > Hi
        >
        > I'm the tech specialist at a k-4 school. Previous to this year, I'd
        > taught grades 3-12 (and adults), so the younger grades are a new
        > challenge to me. I have mixed feelings about putting younger kids in
        > front of screens -- I really feel like they'll get plenty of that
        later
        > in life and should be doing more physical activities at this age --
        but
        > the school has technology classes blocked out for ALL of the grades,
        so
        > I try to bring technology off of the screen and into the physical
        realm
        > sometimes.
        >

        --

        Ted Nellen 8-)
        Information Technology HS http://www.tnellen.com/iths/
        Cybrarian http://www.tnellen.com/ted/
        CyberEnglish http://www.tnellen.net/cyberenglish/
        CyberSchool http://www.tnellen.com/alt/

        One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know
        it, you have no certainty until you try.

        ~ Sophocles ~ (BC 495-406, Greek Tragic Poet)




        WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List

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        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Bernie Poole
        What a great project (see below). I find it ironic that it should be directed by a gentleman whose last name echoes that of Daniel Defoe s desert island
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 10, 2003
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          What a great project (see below). I find it ironic that it should be
          directed by a gentleman whose last name echoes that of Daniel Defoe's
          desert island castaway!

          Just imagine what Robinson Crusoe would have done with the technology we
          have available today!

          Hmmmmmmm... Come to think of it, the aging Defoe (he was in his late 50s
          when he wrote the novel and died at the age of 71) wouldn't have had
          anything to write about! So perhaps it's best that in his times things
          technological were still relatively primitive (*smile*).

          I wonder what they'll be thinking about us some close to 300 years hence...

          Bernie :)

          --On Friday, October 10, 2003 3:53 PM -0700 David Harsany Crusoe
          <dhcrusoe@...> wrote:r

          > Noah,
          >
          > You and your students may be interested in an online radio tool, the Kids
          > Internet Radio Project, I and several others are building. Essentially,
          > classes record and contribute content to an online "streaming" radio
          > broadcast. So, if some students wanted to create a news show and others
          > were interested to read their stories over the air, that would be fine.
          > This may not be appropriate for Kindergarten, but certainly older
          > students would benefit -- and then the younger kids could listen in! Let
          > me know if you are interested - the project guidelines, website, and
          > registration system are still under construction, but I'd be glad to
          > fill you in!
          >
          > Best of luck!
          >
          > David H. Crusoe
          > Kids Internet Radio Project
          > dhcrusoe@...


          Bernard John Poole, MSIS
          Associate Professor of Education and Instructional Technology
          University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
          tel: 814-269-2923 fax: 814-269-7084 http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
        • tednellen
          noah, i dont take issue with what you say, and i agree with playing ball, and being on a team is good, we are talking about school here, the classroom and not
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 10, 2003
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            noah,

            i dont take issue with what you say, and i agree with playing ball, and
            being on a team is good, we are talking about school here, the classroom
            and not playing ball or learning those other things. we are talking about
            time spent in a classroom, so let's not mix our metaphors. during the
            hours when kids are in schools we dont have to use just tech not not use
            it, we need to learn how to balance the 2, that is what i tried to
            suggest. part of using the tech does help them understand their bodies and
            it does help in team work too. and as you have observed how the kids react
            in front of the computer. I can only remind you that schools are for kids
            and their learning and if using the tech works for them, then fine, if
            not, we do it the old fashioned way. remember not to use your own values
            and fears or hopes in making decisions for the kids who have to tackle and
            wrestle with their own issues such as learning, it is always about the
            kids and not about the teacher. that may help.

            ted


            On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Noah Kravitz wrote:

            > Yes, it's a tricky issue. I teach one 2/3 inclusion/bridge class
            > (forgive my ignorance of the terminology; it's a mixed grade, mixed
            > "special ed"/non-special ed class). Like the other students in the
            > school but perhaps even moreso, when they get in front of the computers,
            > they snap almost totally into focus and it's really pretty amazing to
            > see the amount that their concentration level jumps and the pride they
            > take in whatever they're doing
            >
            > So I definitely understand your point
            >
            > For me it's not a settled issue by any means ... A lot of it, I think,
            > comes from my feeling that -- as the cliché goes -- kids are growing up
            > even faster now than ever. They're exposed to so much media,
            > television, etc (especially in the hyper-consumer setting of New York
            > City) that the last thing they need is more time in front of a screen.
            > They have so many problems just dealing with their own bodies and
            > interacting with each other -- walking to and from the park is an
            > enormous chore for them right now -- that I don't want the "computer
            > drug" to be an isolating solution to the problem of navigating the
            > social waters of learning to cooperate, collaborate, and resolve
            > interpersonal conflicts
            >
            > And while there are certainly ways to deal with these issues in front of
            > the computer, I also think that learning to play on a team or share a
            > ball or help each other cross the street is more important to many a
            > seven year old's development than learning to work a mouse (even in
            > tandem).
            >
            > But I don't have all that much experience backing my opinion up, and
            > it's already changed some over the past month ;-)
            >
            > cheers
            > - - -
            > Noah Kravitz
            > Educational Technology Specialist
            > Amber Charter School :: Escuela Autorizada Ámbar
            > (212)534-9667 Ext.120
            > nkravitz@...
            > ambercharter.echalk.com
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: tednellen [mailto:tnellen@...]
            > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 11:46 AM
            > To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [WWWEDU] First Grade Technology Projects
            >
            > Noah,
            >
            > you raise an importnat concept here. However, for some learners the
            > physical use of the computer is actually excellent for them becuase they
            >
            > are tapping the kinetic aspect of learning, not achieved in a non-tech
            > classroom. my children all were labeled LD, because in the non tech
            > classroom they just couldnt function with directions from the teacher
            > and
            > do it in the traditional way. they were labeled failures based on this
            > one
            > approach. I fought hard and long for them to get access to the computers
            >
            > and bingo, they were no longer LD because they could function. I have a
            > 9
            > year old who cant write, but he can touch type. he likes school now,
            > when
            > before he hated it.
            >
            > careful in not using the tech for those students who seem to be "not
            > getting it" in our non tech traditional classrooms. we all do not learn
            > in
            > the same way and the tech allows us to experiment with alternative ways
            > of
            > delivery and production and in the end benefits all of our students.
            >
            > tednellen
            >
            > On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Noah Kravitz wrote:
            >
            > > Hi
            > >
            > > I'm the tech specialist at a k-4 school. Previous to this year, I'd
            > > taught grades 3-12 (and adults), so the younger grades are a new
            > > challenge to me. I have mixed feelings about putting younger kids in
            > > front of screens -- I really feel like they'll get plenty of that
            > later
            > > in life and should be doing more physical activities at this age --
            > but
            > > the school has technology classes blocked out for ALL of the grades,
            > so
            > > I try to bring technology off of the screen and into the physical
            > realm
            > > sometimes.
            > >
            >
            >

            --

            Ted Nellen 8-)
            Information Technology HS http://www.tnellen.com/iths/
            Cybrarian http://www.tnellen.com/ted/
            CyberEnglish http://www.tnellen.net/cyberenglish/
            CyberSchool http://www.tnellen.com/alt/

            One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know
            it, you have no certainty until you try.

            ~ Sophocles ~ (BC 495-406, Greek Tragic Poet)
          • David Harsany Crusoe
            Noah, You and your students may be interested in an online radio tool, the Kids Internet Radio Project, I and several others are building. Essentially, classes
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 10, 2003
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              Noah,

              You and your students may be interested in an online radio tool, the Kids
              Internet Radio Project, I and several others are building. Essentially,
              classes record and contribute content to an online "streaming" radio
              broadcast. So, if some students wanted to create a news show and others
              were interested to read their stories over the air, that would be fine.
              This may not be appropriate for Kindergarten, but certainly older students
              would benefit -- and then the younger kids could listen in! Let me know if
              you are interested - the project guidelines, website, and registration
              system are still under construction, but I'd be glad to fill you in!

              Best of luck!

              David H. Crusoe
              Kids Internet Radio Project
              dhcrusoe@...





              >Hi
              >
              >I'm the tech specialist at a k-4 school. Previous to this year, I'd
              >taught grades 3-12 (and adults), so the younger grades are a new
              >challenge to me. I have mixed feelings about putting younger kids in
              >front of screens -- I really feel like they'll get plenty of that later
              >in life and should be doing more physical activities at this age -- but
              >the school has technology classes blocked out for ALL of the grades, so
              >I try to bring technology off of the screen and into the physical realm
              >sometimes.
              >
              >Here are a few things I've done with the younger grades:
              >
              >-- KidPix ... For an "onscreen" activity, this is great. They all love
              >it, it's easy to use, very visual, and there's a combination of clip art
              >"stamps" and drawing/painting tools, so it adapts well to varying skill
              >levels
              >
              >-- Lots of activities with digital cameras & videos. I'm trying to
              >tie-in to the class curricula about learning about yourself and your
              >community. I took digital pictures of various places in the school as
              >well as all of the adult staff members. I showed the pictures to the
              >class using a laptop & projector -- the kids loved the projector,
              >cheered when they saw pictures of teachers they knew, and started to
              >learn the names of teachers they'd never seen before (our school is in a
              >5-floor building and K/1 is on the 2nd floor). For my next class, I had
              >printed the pictures out and assigned the floors of the school to small
              >groups of students. I gave them each a sheet of chart paper and had
              >them paste the pictures onto the page and (attempt to) label each
              >picture with the correct name. Then they decorated the page. We wound
              >up with a giant, multi-sheet "map" of the school.
              >
              >A similar project was to create a picture story of the school. I did
              >this with K, but it could easily be done with most any elementary grade,
              >I think, with various adaptations. We sat in a circle and each student
              >got a picture of a person/place in the school. The first student came
              >up and we pasted his picture to the chart paper and he described what he
              >thought was going on in the picture -- In our case the picture was of a
              >bulletin board showing 4th graders study of the Kevin Hanks book
              >"Holes." The Kinder. Student decided that the picture was drawings of
              >space, so that started our story off. Each student then came up, pasted
              >his/her picture to the paper, and continued the story with a sentence
              >about what was going on in the picture. We wound up with a story about
              >someone walking around the school trying to find the students who'd gone
              >to space and made this drawings. I wrote the captions under each
              >picture, and now we have a two sheet of chart paper story made up of
              >pictures and their captions.
              >
              >We also just got two Digital Blue Movie Creator kits, which are
              >basically kid-friendly USB camcorders that take video (with sound) and
              >still pictures. They come with USB docking cradles and software.
              >They're great! Cost $90 each from
              >http://www.compuvisor.com/digbludigmov.html, are small and durable
              >enough for kids to use, and very simple (one button takes stills,
              >another button takes movies, and there are three buttons on the side for
              >other features that the kids don't necessarily have to worry about).
              >They run either off of battery or USB power, and can hold 4 minutes of
              >movies each, or have virtually unlimited capacity (based on your hard
              >drive) when USB tethered to a computer.
              >
              >Our school is a dual-language immersion program, so I took a camera to a
              >1st grade Spanish class. I had the kids take turns taping each other
              >saying simple Spanish phrases (My name is... and so on). Using a laptop
              >and projector, I could display the video "interviews" in real time for
              >the entire class to watch while they waited for their turn. I'm sure
              >you could come up with something a little richer with some thought (this
              >was a spur of the moment activity), but even the basic idea of seeing
              >yourself on camera opens up a world of possibilities for talking about
              >self-esteem, which is a big issue in our school.
              >
              >Also, you can do lots of literacy activities by using pictures/video as
              >writing prompts ... writing scene-by-scene captions for movies is a
              >really fun one, especially if the movies involve the students themselves
              >as the "stars."
              >
              >Anyway, enough out of me ... I hope this helps some!
              >
              >Cheers
              >nk
              >- - -
              >Noah Kravitz
              >Educational Technology Specialist
              >Amber Charter School :: Escuela Autorizada Ámbar
              >(212)534-9667 Ext.120
              >nkravitz@...
              >ambercharter.echalk.com
              >
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: verm2@... [mailto:verm2@...]
              >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:41 PM
              >To: wwwedu@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [WWWEDU] First Grade Technology Projects
              >
              > Title: First Grade Technology Projects
              > I teach first grade and am trying to use technology more in my
              > > classroom and with my students. I am struggling some with the facts
              > > that they can't read very well yet and are not able to figure things
              > > out so that they can keep going on a project without specific
              > > directions. Does anyone have any good ideas of siple projects that I
              > > could do with my first graders to help all of us out so that we are
              > > enjoying technology more and using it in a beneficial manner.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Suzie Vermetten - Kansas
              > verm2@...
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >To access the archive, please visit the list homepage:
              >http://edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >To access the archive, please visit the list homepage:
              >http://edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • David Harsany Crusoe
              Bernie and all -- Thanks for the positive responses! I ll post detailed information as soon as the Kids Radio registration system & upload manager work,
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 10, 2003
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                Bernie and all --

                Thanks for the positive responses! I'll post detailed information as soon
                as the Kids' Radio registration system & upload manager work, hopefully by
                Monday afternoon!

                Please e-mail me if you have any questions in the meantime!

                David H. Crusoe
                Kids Internet Radio Project
                dhcrusoe@...



                >What a great project (see below). I find it ironic that it should be
                >directed by a gentleman whose last name echoes that of Daniel Defoe's
                >desert island castaway!
                >
                >Just imagine what Robinson Crusoe would have done with the technology we
                >have available today!
                >
                >Hmmmmmmm... Come to think of it, the aging Defoe (he was in his late 50s
                >when he wrote the novel and died at the age of 71) wouldn't have had
                >anything to write about! So perhaps it's best that in his times things
                >technological were still relatively primitive (*smile*).
                >
                >I wonder what they'll be thinking about us some close to 300 years hence...
                >
                >Bernie :)
                >
                >--On Friday, October 10, 2003 3:53 PM -0700 David Harsany Crusoe
                ><dhcrusoe@...> wrote:r
                >
                > > Noah,
                > >
                > > You and your students may be interested in an online radio tool, the Kids
                > > Internet Radio Project, I and several others are building. Essentially,
                > > classes record and contribute content to an online "streaming" radio
                > > broadcast. So, if some students wanted to create a news show and others
                > > were interested to read their stories over the air, that would be fine.
                > > This may not be appropriate for Kindergarten, but certainly older
                > > students would benefit -- and then the younger kids could listen in! Let
                > > me know if you are interested - the project guidelines, website, and
                > > registration system are still under construction, but I'd be glad to
                > > fill you in!
                > >
                > > Best of luck!
                > >
                > > David H. Crusoe
                > > Kids Internet Radio Project
                > > dhcrusoe@...
                >
                >
                >Bernard John Poole, MSIS
                >Associate Professor of Education and Instructional Technology
                >University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
                >tel: 814-269-2923 fax: 814-269-7084 http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >WWWEDU, The Web and Education Mailing List
                >
                >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >wwwedu-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >To access the archive, please visit the list homepage:
                >http://edwebproject.org/wwwedu.html
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Greene, Dr. Patrick
                From: [mailto:verm2@oz-online.net] Does anyone have any good ideas of siple projects that I could do with my first graders The best software for kids from 3
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 13, 2003
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                  From: [mailto:verm2@...]
                  Does anyone have any good ideas of siple projects that I could do with my first graders

                  The best software for kids from 3 years old to seniors in HS is, IMO, Logo and it's more modern cousin - Squeak. Logo is making a comeback, in my estimation. Both of these environments are: highly motivating for kids; intuitively teach math and science concepts; and very difficult to quantify on standard tests. There are several forms of Logo, although the one that has stuck closest to Seymour Papert's vision is Terrapin Logo (http://www.terrapinlogo.com/). Alan Kay's Squeak builds off of that foundation and can be found at http://www.squeakland.org

                  Patrick Greene, PhD
                  Florida Gulf Coast University
                  pgreene@...
                • paulajhaddock
                  ... little folks. Any ideas for an adult education program that does have access to a computer lab daily, and is trying to incorporate the use of technology
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 14, 2003
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                    --- Noah, what great ideas you gave for using technology with these
                    little folks. Any ideas for an adult education program that does
                    have access to a computer lab daily, and is trying to incorporate the
                    use of technology in our GED/Adult Basic Ed curriculum. Some of our
                    students have NO skills in computers and so are almost like first
                    graders in their usage of it. Again, your ideas were great and I can
                    use some of them with my adult students, just adapt them a little
                    with the age difference.

                    Paula Haddock,
                    paulajhaddock@...

                    In wwwedu@yahoogroups.com, "Noah Kravitz" <nk@t...> wrote:
                    > Hi
                    >
                    > I'm the tech specialist at a k-4 school. Previous to this year, I'd
                    > taught grades 3-12 (and adults), so the younger grades are a new
                    > challenge to me. I have mixed feelings about putting younger kids
                    in
                    > front of screens -- I really feel like they'll get plenty of that
                    later
                    > in life and should be doing more physical activities at this age --
                    but
                    > the school has technology classes blocked out for ALL of the
                    grades, so
                    > I try to bring technology off of the screen and into the physical
                    realm
                    > sometimes.
                    >
                    > Here are a few things I've done with the younger grades:

                    (cut - ma)
                  • Kim Foley
                    Paula, You may want to get them taking some virtual field trips. THey re a lot of fun, and very easy to use. Adults LOVE the trip on Natural Wonders, as well
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 14, 2003
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                      Paula,

                      You may want to get them taking some virtual field trips. THey're a lot of
                      fun, and very easy to use. Adults LOVE the trip on Natural Wonders, as
                      well as many of the others. Some of the more adventurous may even want to
                      create their own trips once they "get hooked."

                      See them at: http://www.tramline.com/trips.htm

                      Kim
                      ----------------------------
                      "The Big Pocket Guide to Using & Creating Virtual Field Trips"
                      Find out more at www.tramline.com/book

                      Kim Foley, Tramline
                      kim@...

                      www.tramline.com (Virtual Field Trips/TourMaker Software)
                      ----------------------------

                      The principal goal of education is to create people who are capable of
                      doing new things, not simply repeating what other generations have done.
                      - Piaget

                      On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, paulajhaddock wrote:

                      > --- Noah, what great ideas you gave for using technology with these
                      > little folks. Any ideas for an adult education program that does
                      > have access to a computer lab daily, and is trying to incorporate the
                      > use of technology in our GED/Adult Basic Ed curriculum. Some of our
                      > students have NO skills in computers and so are almost like first
                      > graders in their usage of it. Again, your ideas were great and I can
                      > use some of them with my adult students, just adapt them a little
                      > with the age difference.
                      >
                      > Paula Haddock,
                      > paulajhaddock@...
                      >
                      > In wwwedu@yahoogroups.com, "Noah Kravitz" <nk@t...> wrote:
                      > > Hi
                      > >
                      > > I'm the tech specialist at a k-4 school. Previous to this year, I'd
                      > > taught grades 3-12 (and adults), so the younger grades are a new
                      > > challenge to me. I have mixed feelings about putting younger kids
                      > in
                      > > front of screens -- I really feel like they'll get plenty of that
                      > later
                      > > in life and should be doing more physical activities at this age --
                      > but
                      > > the school has technology classes blocked out for ALL of the
                      > grades, so
                      > > I try to bring technology off of the screen and into the physical
                      > realm
                      > > sometimes.
                      > >
                      > > Here are a few things I've done with the younger grades:
                      >
                      > (cut - ma)
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                    • dlautenb@toad.net
                      ... Dr. Greene, Can you give specific examples of how to go about introducing and then using these types of programs with young studnets? I work in a k-5 lab-
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 14, 2003
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                        Quoting "Greene, Dr. Patrick" <pgreene@...>:

                        > From: [mailto:verm2@...]
                        > Does anyone have any good ideas of siple projects that I could do with my
                        > first graders
                        >
                        > The best software for kids from 3 years old to seniors in HS is,
                        > IMO, Logo and it's more modern cousin - Squeak. Logo is making a comeback, in
                        > my estimation. Both of these environments are: highly motivating for kids;
                        > intuitively teach math and science concepts; and very difficult to quantify
                        > on standard tests. There are several forms of Logo, although the one that has
                        > stuck closest to Seymour Papert's vision is Terrapin Logo
                        > (http://www.terrapinlogo.com/). Alan Kay's Squeak builds off of that
                        > foundation and can be found at http://www.squeakland.org

                        Dr. Greene,
                        Can you give specific examples of how to go about introducing and then using
                        these types of programs with young studnets? I work in a k-5 lab- all of my
                        studnets are learing disabled - many struggle with reading. I would love to give
                        them a tool they could be successful with- but in my first attempts to use
                        squeak - I felt intimidated...
                        Help open my eyes to take a second look.
                        d lautenberger
                        dlautenb@...
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                      • Art Wolinsky
                        ... It s entirely understandable that you felt intimidated. The fact is that Squeak does have a significant learning curve, especially for adults. Any way you
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 14, 2003
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                          At 05:45 PM 10/14/2003, you wrote:
                          >- but in my first attempts to use
                          >squeak - I felt intimidated...

                          It's entirely understandable that you felt intimidated. The fact is that
                          Squeak does have a significant learning curve, especially for adults. Any
                          way you look at it, it is a complex programming environment. The main
                          difference between it and other programming environments is that it
                          replaces text syntax with graphic objects and pull down menus that allow
                          you to define and assign values and actions.

                          Even as someone who was a programmer in first in BASIC, then in LOGO,
                          followed by HyperCard, and Linkway scripting languages I intimidated the
                          first time I looked at it. I played with it for a while and determined
                          that it would take many hours before I felt comfortable enough with it to
                          work with students. I knew that I had the background and experience to be
                          able to pick it up on my own, but having the experience and background, I
                          also knew that if I had formal training, it would be MUCH easier to get up
                          to speed. Since I had no vehicle to implement it with students, I didn't
                          have the time or motivation to delve deeper.

                          Then recently I began working with an elementary school and had the
                          opportunity to view the Squeakers DVD and read "Powerful Ideas in the
                          Classroom Using Squeak to Enhance Math and Science. At that point I had a
                          much better understanding of its value as a teaching and learning tool.

                          After seeing the DVD, I went back to the Squeak Tutorials and found them
                          MUCH easier. If at some point, I have the opportunity to attend a training
                          session, I know from my past experience that it will flattening the
                          learning curve for me. I'm seriously considering immersing myself in it
                          this summer and going back to my love of programming with kids.

                          In short, I think Squeak is a fantastic environment, but unless one has
                          experience in programming or multimedia scripting languages, it's not
                          something that lends itself to simple self-teaching. The up side of it is
                          that with formal training it would be easier for an adult to get
                          comfortable with it than it would be to get comfortable with any of the
                          above mentioned languages. It requires a LOT of play time! I think it's
                          worth it and I'm looking forward to eventually becoming a Squeaker.

                          As an additional note, one of the most powerful and efficient ways of
                          learning any programming language or environment is to become part of an
                          online community of users. Squeak has such a community in the form of the
                          Squeakland mailing list. Training, experimentation, and books can take you
                          only so far. When it comes to learning something like this, you can easily
                          hit a snag that can take you hours or weeks to get over, if you can get
                          over it at all. Having an online community to which you can pose your
                          problem can often get you an answer to your problem in a matter of minutes.

                          My personal plan to learn squeak included joining the community, playing
                          with squeak, doing tutorials, looking at examples others have created,
                          trying to get formal training, and reading some or all of the other five
                          books on Squeak (not necessarily in that order).

                          During the early 90's I used Linkway Scripting language to create the
                          Whacky Turtle Races. It involved all of the aspects of paramutual betting
                          and horse racing. Aside from understanding the math concepts behind odds,
                          payoffs, betting, and random events, it took a huge amount of coding that
                          was only possible because the Linkway developers were my mentors. Yet with
                          my understanding of the math concepts and the simplicity of Squeak's kid
                          friendly interface, I could see doing the same project with middle school
                          children.

                          Going back to the DVD, it shows a class using Squeak to study motion and
                          acceleration. Middle schools students were doing the same kind of work our
                          AP Physics students were doing using VideoPoint software and other higher
                          end tools.

                          Art

                          ******************************************************************
                          Art Wolinsky - OEO 3DWriting, Inc
                          awolinsky@...
                          http://www.3dwriting.com
                          Technology Director - Online Internet Institute
                          http://oii.org
                          (609) 698-8223
                          ******************************************************************
                          I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.
                          I will surely learn a great deal today.
                          ******************************************************************
                        • Greene, Dr. Patrick
                          I would love to give {my learning disabled students} a tool they could be successful with- but in my first attempts to use squeak - I felt intimidated... Help
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 15, 2003
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                            I would love to give {my learning disabled students} a tool they could be successful with- but in my first attempts to use squeak - I felt intimidated...
                            Help open my eyes to take a second look. d lautenberger (dlautenb@...)

                            2 points of good news. 1) research shows that LD kids do even better with Logo (and presumably Squeak) than regular elem students., 2) the way to use these tools is almost purely constructivist.

                            There is a tutorial manual, purchasable from the www.squeakland.org website, called "Powerful Ideas in the Classroom: Using Squeak to Enhance Math and Science Learning". To me, that is so reminiscent of the Logo era and Papert's seminal work. This book will give you a process to work through in introducing Squeak to your kids. Then, after they have some rudimentary skill, you should provide simple projects for them to figure out. Figuring out on their own, without significant help from the teacher, is the way to do this. In a previous life, I got to work with teachers just beginning to use Logo with their kids. The teachers were not used to allowing kids to fail, they saw it as something bad. But most of learning research suggests allowing kids to not be initially successful and helping them reflect on why they were not successful. This is similar to "The Sandlot" allegory about learning that was written by G. Stanley Hall in (I think) 1896. Then, he said that kids learn more playing in a sandlot with toy trucks, than school kids usually learn in their more structured and teacher dominated environments.

                            Logo and Squeak are tools that allow kids to do things, and, in the process, learn math and science concepts intuitively.

                            Patrick Greene, PhD
                            Florida Gulf Coast University
                            pgreene@...
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