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RE: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others

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  • Dougie Rankine
    Dear Gavin, I have about half a dozen real journeys, from wandering around my old house where I store the first 10 American Presidents, to using the stations
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 1 1:20 AM
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      Dear Gavin,
      I have about half a dozen "real" journeys, from wandering around my old
      house where I store the first 10 American Presidents, to using the stations
      on the Central Line of the London Tube system. I use them mostly for
      memorising poetry, although I have a journey with 31 stops in it around the
      Island which I use as a calendar. Since living on the Isle of Wight, I have
      set up journeys along the Route 1 bus system and along sections of the Cliff
      Path. I have a ten number route at Freshwater, which I use for my short
      term memory and for memorising verses of poems which I then transfer over to
      my long term memory in SEM3. My Roman Room creation was my study, this was
      once a creature of my imagination. However it has now become real! There
      is nothing to stop you from creating an imaginary journey, in fact it is an
      excellent use of your imagination. The problem with it is, that you need to
      write it down somewhere so that if you forget any bits of it you can always
      get back to it! Sherevshenky, the Russian mnemonist, used to travel all
      over the world in his imaginary journeys, until Luria showed him a way to
      concentrate them a bit more. He used synasthesia as well, using sounds
      which converted into coloured images for him and some weird symbols which
      only made sense to himself. There is a group of Tibetan monks, who,as a
      mental exercise create a man as real as possible and then destroy it, as
      part of their training. What you are doing is a good way of learning
      architecture, furniture, decor and 3d coloured imagery as well as memory
      systems at the same time. You could of course, imagine yourself as an ant
      or a microbe and wander all over Charlie Dimmock's nether regions , giving
      the humps and troughs of her anatomy all sorts of names and associations for
      use as hooks! A friend of mine was taking an anatomy exam and had great
      difficulty naming the parts inside the mouth in Latin until he thought of
      the idea of shrinking himself down to a really tiny person and then climbed
      in and memorised them all. He did well in the exam. Another benefit of
      memory training. Where would we be without our imaginations.
      All the best,
      Dougie.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: gavino99@... [mailto:gavino99@...]
      Sent: 31 January 2001 19:10
      To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others

      Dougie,

      Thanks for the detailed response - lots of useful information.

      I suppose what I am getting at is this. There are certainly many ways
      of developing a memory system for a given situation using the basic
      principles of Image, Association and Location. Although only a
      novice, I am familiar with most of the oft-quoted peg systems, up to
      and including SEM3. I happen not to particularly like SEM3 and have
      therefore developed along the Journey Method and the Memory
      Palace/Village, which is, as you say, an extension of the Roman Room
      Loci method. I also have my "Dominic 100" well established.

      The challenge that I see with the Journey Method, and indeed any
      Roman Room based method, is rapidly running out of real journies or
      buildings that you know well. For long-term memory I am convinced
      that it would be confusing to use the same journies for different
      subjects. Whilst I accept that memories of real buildings and
      journies can be collected over time, I am drawn to the concept of
      creating completely or partially imaginary structures or journies.

      In the example quoted, I am distinguishing between my locations using
      colour, alphabet and association with a particular piece of
      furniture. I also try to vary the style of the red armchair compared
      to the blue armchair. Probably if I had more of an education or prior
      interest in architecture this would be unnecessary, but alas this is
      not so. As an aside, I must say that my interest in architecture has
      multiplied many times since my interest in memory systems began! As
      another aside, one of my better images is a violet-coloured
      Brontosaurus nibbling on one of Charlie Dimmock's breasts whist she
      tries to relax in a violet bath! (Charlotte Bronte if you haven't
      guessed)

      Even with my current abilities, memorising the 100 writers in itself
      would be fairly easy, as I would probably place them along a journey,
      or place 5 or 6 images per room in a house that I know. What I am
      striving to achieve is a fixed place for each writer that I can
      always return to, in order to collect or add information over the
      ensuing years. Hence I have given each of them a room. Who knows, I
      may one day need a whole house or hotel for some of them.

      I think you can see from the above that I am certainly not expecting
      an easy ride, but rather looking for the easiest one available!

      Regards

      Gavin



      --- In wwbc@y..., "Dougie Rankine" <rankine@r...> wrote:
      > Dear Gavin,
      > No one ever said that memory training was easy. Of if they did, I
      can't
      > remember, or they were giving you hype. Part of developing and
      training
      > your memory is to learn how it works, how it retains etc. The only
      way that
      > you will learn this is to look at other techniques and find the
      best ones
      > that work for you. The more memory techniques you learn, then the
      more ways
      > you have of retaining and getting access to information such as key
      concepts
      > and memories. Like life, it is not so much the achievement, it is
      the
      > struggle to get there that matters. What memory techniques will
      teach you,
      > is where you go wrong when you are learning them. How? Because
      you lose
      > the memories, which means that something is wrong, either from not
      > understanding them or having poor quality associations and retention
      > methods, or for having poor assimilation and comprehension, or a
      poor
      > attention span, or because you don't have enough hooks, or you
      don't use
      > enough of your senses, or you don't revise often enough, or you
      don't spend
      > enough time learning them. Poor memory can be any of those things,
      a
      > combination of them, and more. Dominic O'Brien will tell you that
      he spends
      > 5 or more hours a day on his memory work. Like all good performers,
      > entertainers and actors, he learns his lines and techniques, till
      he can
      > demonstrate them without hesitation, he is a master at it. It is
      not a
      > question of luck either, as Gary Player once said," the more you
      play, the
      > luckier you get!" By learning different memory systems, then you
      will find
      > the ones that suit you best, you will learn to combine them for
      different
      > jobs and functions. SEM3 is a journey into space for me, it
      exercises my
      > imagination and my logic and arithmetic by the boxed grid structure
      and the
      > use of key words for numbers. The Dominic O'Brien system does the
      same
      > thing but the opposite way round, for me. My journey consists of a
      circular
      > walk which I used to take my daughter on every day, down to our
      local park.
      > In Brent Valley Park, Hanwell, its users would be surprised to find
      so many
      > famous people and events lurking around doing the most
      extraordinary things
      > in various prominent sites, from Betty Boothby shouting "order,
      order" to
      > Dominic O'Brien himself fishing out numbers from a fish pond! You
      need to
      > learn the numbers one to 100 as associations of names and actions
      so that
      > you can say them backwards and forwards just like a poem. Use SEM3
      to do
      > this, by putting each one of Dominic O'Brien's associations into a
      keyword
      > in it, or vikki verki. Then you will have two systems to work from
      and more
      > hooks to use. I also have Bruno Furst's number system as part of
      SEM3, so
      > if I lose one I can get to it from the others. That's some of the
      reasons
      > that Tony Buzan invented it and called it the Self-Enhancing Master
      Memory
      > Matrix. You can even put other number systems up to 100 in it and
      associate
      > the words or concepts together. Regarding the memory palace,
      presumably
      > that is a variation of the Roman Room, a study in architecture.
      You can use
      > a block of flats or St. Paul's Cathedral, it doesn't really matter,
      as long
      > as you make each room so distinct that it can't be confused with
      any other.
      > 10 storey concrete and glass with 10 rooms in each might make some
      people
      > happy, especially if you are a "high flyer" from Noo Yoik. An olde
      English
      > Country House, made of Cotswold stone, full of subsidence,
      character,
      > Georgian furniture, arts and crafts textures, Edwardian doors and
      windows
      > and earthquake proof, might suit others. The other advantage that
      an old
      > house has, (apart from its monetary value and sense of history) is
      it is
      > like the human brain, bits have been added on over the years and
      for that
      > reason new bits hang a lot easier on it when you are doing memory
      work. All
      > I can say is that it took me a long time to do it, years in fact,
      and I have
      > to keep revising it every so often so that I don't forget them.
      But, there
      > again, I have always accepted that I am a slow learner.
      > All the best,
      > Dougie.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: gavino99@a... [mailto:gavino99@a...]
      > Sent: 30 January 2001 13:18
      > To: wwbc@y...
      > Subject: [wwbc] Memory Question for Graham and Others
      >
      > Graham and Others,
      >
      > I wonder if I can ask your advice on something. I am focused on
      > developing my long-term memory in various subjects, using the Memory
      > Palace/Village concepts.
      >
      > My current mini-project is to memorise the "Top 100" Writers found
      in
      > Buzan's "Master Your Memory", along with their DOB's, major works
      and
      > a few other basic facts. In due course I then want to add additional
      > facts as I come across them.
      >
      > As an experiment I am trying to use a completely imaginary hotel
      with
      > 100 rooms. These are divided into 10 corridors, each corridor and
      > room/furniture within that corridor being colour coded using
      ROYGBIV,
      > Black, Grey, and White. The 10 rooms are uniquely defined by the
      > first piece of furniture, placed in the centre of the room which is
      > alpha coded - Room 1 = O = Oven, Room 2 = A = Armchair, Room 3 = B =
      > Bath etc. I have cunningly chosen the furniture so that I have 10
      > different room types, which I can then add appropriate furniture and
      > fittings to, and then use to hang the additional facts on.
      >
      > Most of the texts talk about using architectural features, columns
      > etc., but I think that this would take an extraordinary effort to
      > construct a large building in your imagination
      >
      > I am making some progress and the logic seems OK, but it is hard
      work
      > and I wonder if you have any suggestions as to a better method?
      >
      > In particular, have you ever tried using an imaginary
      > journey/building for large amounts of data and, if so, how was it
      > constructed?
      >
      > I find real rooms much easier but inevitably start to hit the issue
      > of running out of rooms/buildings - especially buildings with 100
      > rooms!
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > GavinO



      The WW Brain Club web site is now back in operation. Check out
      http://www.brain-club.com Apologies for the outage!
    • George Wade
      To: From: Dougie Rankine Subject: RE: [wwbc] Memory Question for Graham and Others Date: Wed, 31 Jan
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 1 9:08 PM
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        To: <wwbc@yahoogroups.com>
        From: "Dougie Rankine" <rankine@...>
        Subject: RE: [wwbc] Memory Question for Graham and Others
        Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:00:45 -0000
        Reply-To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com

        This is fascinating:

        I hate rooms; buildings; especially concrete.

        But being outside, on the sea or by a river is heaven. So I had better get Dominic's book and practice some voyages. There are two sailing races around the world going on, right now. One is very well covered on internet. That keeps me happy before breakfast, anyway.

        George

        Dear Gavin,
        No one ever said that memory training was easy. Of if they did, I can't
        remember, or they were giving you hype. Part of developing and training
        your memory is to learn how it works, how it retains etc. The only way that
        you will learn this is to look at other techniques and find the best ones
        that work for you.
        ..................................
        What memory techniques will teach you,
        is where you go wrong when you are learning them. How? Because you lose
        the memories, which means that something is wrong................

        Poor memory can be any of those things, a
        combination of them, and more. Dominic O'Brien will tell you that he spends
        5 or more hours a day on his memory work. Like all good performers,
        entertainers and actors, he learns his lines and techniques, till he can
        demonstrate them without hesitation, he is a master at it. It is not a
        question of luck either, as Gary Player once said," the more you play, the
        luckier you get!" By learning different memory systems, then you will find
        the ones that suit you best, you will learn to combine them for different
        jobs and functions. SEM3 is a journey into space for me, it exercises my
        imagination and my logic and arithmetic by the boxed grid structure and the
        use of key words for numbers. The Dominic O'Brien system does the same
        thing but the opposite way round, for me.
        .........................
        All the best,
        Dougie.

        -

        Subject: [wwbc] Memory Question for Graham and Others

        Graham and Others,

        I wonder if I can ask your advice on something. I am focused on
        developing my long-term memory in various subjects, using the Memory
        Palace/Village concepts.

        My current mini-project is to memorise the "Top 100" Writers
        .......
        I find real rooms much easier but inevitably start to hit the issue
        of running out of rooms/buildings - especially buildings with 100
        rooms!

        Regards,

        GavinO
      • George Wade
        ... I expect that you are right; but it is dangerous to be convinced without proof. So we should look for examples with standard systems. I think that Tony
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 1 9:08 PM
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          On February 01 2001, <gavino99@...> wrote:

          >Dougie,
          >
          >Thanks for the detailed response - lots of useful information.
          >
          >
          >The challenge that I see with the Journey Method, and indeed any
          >Roman Room based method, is rapidly running out of real journies or
          >buildings that you know well. For long-term memory I am convinced
          >that it would be confusing to use the same journies for different
          >subjects.

          I expect that you are right; but it is dangerous to be convinced without proof. So we should look for examples with standard systems. I think that Tony Buzan uses extensions to SEM^3 to cover different subjects.

          We could take a small section and learn three separate subjects with it and see if they get confused. If they do we know that we need a separate journey for each subject. If it is true for another 100 WWBC'ers; then it is true for the world.

          > Whilst I accept that memories of real buildings and
          >journies can be collected over time, I am drawn to the concept of
          >creating completely or partially imaginary structures or journies.

          That may be more vivid than real journeys, too.

          George,
          Kochi
        • gavino99@aol.com
          George, Comments below. ... or buildings that you know well. For long-term memory I am convinced ... without proof. So we should look for examples with
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 2 1:40 AM
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            George,

            Comments below.

            > >The challenge that I see with the Journey Method, and indeed any
            > >Roman Room based method, is rapidly running out of real journies
            or buildings that you know well. For long-term memory I am convinced
            > >that it would be confusing to use the same journies for different
            > >subjects.
            >
            > I expect that you are right; but it is dangerous to be convinced
            without proof. So we should look for examples with standard systems.
            I think that Tony Buzan uses extensions to SEM^3 to cover different
            subjects.

            I must say that you are correct. My conclusion was partly based on
            intuition and partly based upon my reading of Dominic and the
            translations that one finds of the Greek/Roman memory texts. Dominic
            seems to use certain journies over and over again for short-term
            memory by consciously erasing the images like videotape. For long-
            term memory he advises keeping distinct journies. My limited
            experience suggests that he is correct because in my oldest long-term
            memory rooms, the images are just like part of the furniture and I
            think that I would struggle to add a completely new set of images.
            Perhaps completely changing the real room using colour or some other
            device might work but somehow I doubt it. I am all for the experiment
            though.

            > > Whilst I accept that memories of real buildings and
            > >journies can be collected over time, I am drawn to the concept of
            > >creating completely or partially imaginary structures or journies.
            > That may be more vivid than real journeys, too.

            I think this may well turn out to be true in time. I am finding the
            effort in creating the imaginary building and populating it with
            images far harder than using real buildings. I am hoping that
            ultimately the pain will be worthwhile. If not then I have not wasted
            the time because it is undoubtedly adding to the power of my
            imagination.

            >
            > George,
            > Kochi
          • gavino99@aol.com
            George, Comments below. ... or buildings that you know well. For long-term memory I am convinced ... without proof. So we should look for examples with
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 2 1:40 AM
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              George,

              Comments below.

              > >The challenge that I see with the Journey Method, and indeed any
              > >Roman Room based method, is rapidly running out of real journies
              or buildings that you know well. For long-term memory I am convinced
              > >that it would be confusing to use the same journies for different
              > >subjects.
              >
              > I expect that you are right; but it is dangerous to be convinced
              without proof. So we should look for examples with standard systems.
              I think that Tony Buzan uses extensions to SEM^3 to cover different
              subjects.

              I must say that you are correct. My conclusion was partly based on
              intuition and partly based upon my reading of Dominic and the
              translations that one finds of the Greek/Roman memory texts. Dominic
              seems to use certain journies over and over again for short-term
              memory by consciously erasing the images like videotape. For long-
              term memory he advises keeping distinct journies. My limited
              experience suggests that he is correct because in my oldest long-term
              memory rooms, the images are just like part of the furniture and I
              think that I would struggle to add a completely new set of images.
              Perhaps completely changing the real room using colour or some other
              device might work but somehow I doubt it. I am all for the experiment
              though.

              > > Whilst I accept that memories of real buildings and
              > >journies can be collected over time, I am drawn to the concept of
              > >creating completely or partially imaginary structures or journies.
              > That may be more vivid than real journeys, too.

              I think this may well turn out to be true in time. I am finding the
              effort in creating the imaginary building and populating it with
              images far harder than using real buildings. I am hoping that
              ultimately the pain will be worthwhile. If not then I have not wasted
              the time because it is undoubtedly adding to the power of my
              imagination.

              >
              > George,
              > Kochi
            • George Wade
              Do you have the names of some of those Greek / Roman memory texts? With any luck they are in Gutenburgh e-texts. ... You could add a little imagination to
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 2 7:08 AM
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                Do you have the names of some of those Greek / Roman memory texts? With any luck they are in 'Gutenburgh' e-texts.

                On February 02 2001, <gavino99@...> wrote:


                >.............. My conclusion was partly based on
                >intuition and partly based upon my reading of Dominic and the
                >translations that one finds of the Greek/Roman memory texts.
                .......
                >I think this may well turn out to be true in time. I am finding the
                >effort in creating the imaginary building and populating it with
                >images far harder than using real buildings. I am hoping that
                >ultimately the pain will be worthwhile. If not then I have not wasted
                >the time because it is undoubtedly adding to the power of my
                >imagination.

                You could add a little imagination to some real buildings as a step in an interesting direction? Add to them or change them.

                George
              • gavino99@aol.com
                Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria (Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed at length in the Frances
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 2 8:23 AM
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                  Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                  (Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed
                  at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".

                  Regards

                  Gavin


                  --- In wwbc@y..., "George Wade" <geogwade@p...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Do you have the names of some of those Greek / Roman memory texts?
                  With any luck they are in 'Gutenburgh' e-texts.
                  >
                  > On February 02 2001, <gavino99@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > >.............. My conclusion was partly based on
                  > >intuition and partly based upon my reading of Dominic and the
                  > >translations that one finds of the Greek/Roman memory texts.
                  > .......
                  > >I think this may well turn out to be true in time. I am finding
                  the
                  > >effort in creating the imaginary building and populating it with
                  > >images far harder than using real buildings. I am hoping that
                  > >ultimately the pain will be worthwhile. If not then I have not
                  wasted
                  > >the time because it is undoubtedly adding to the power of my
                  > >imagination.
                  >
                  > You could add a little imagination to some real buildings as a step
                  in an interesting direction? Add to them or change them.
                  >
                  > George
                • Dougie Rankine
                  Dear Colleagues, Does anyone know if there is any chance of reading those sources on line? All the best, Dougie. ... From: gavino99@aol.com
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 2 9:02 AM
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                    Dear Colleagues,
                    Does anyone know if there is any chance of reading those sources on line?
                    All the best,
                    Dougie.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: gavino99@... [mailto:gavino99@...]
                    Sent: 02 February 2001 16:23
                    To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others

                    Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                    (Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed
                    at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".

                    Regards

                    Gavin
                  • gavino99@aol.com
                    Dougie, There are various extended quotes from the Yates book on some of the links that I placed in the files section. Yates book is definitely available from
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 2 9:17 AM
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                      Dougie,

                      There are various extended quotes from the Yates book on some of the
                      links that I placed in the files section. Yates book is definitely
                      available from Amazon UK - or was a couple of months ago. A
                      challenging read but some really useful stuff.

                      GavinO


                      --- In wwbc@y..., "Dougie Rankine" <rankine@r...> wrote:
                      > Dear Colleagues,
                      > Does anyone know if there is any chance of reading those sources on
                      line?
                      > All the best,
                      > Dougie.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: gavino99@a... [mailto:gavino99@a...]
                      > Sent: 02 February 2001 16:23
                      > To: wwbc@y...
                      > Subject: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others
                      >
                      > Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                      > (Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed
                      > at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".
                      >
                      > Regards
                      >
                      > Gavin
                    • Reinhard K. Koehler
                      Hi Dougie, may I ask you (and some others) a favor: I do hope that you don t mind structuring your contributions a little bit better, that is optically. Simply
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 2 2:15 PM
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                        Hi Dougie,

                        may I ask you (and some others) a favor:

                        I do hope that you don't mind structuring your contributions a little bit
                        better, that is optically.

                        Simply use paragraphs.

                        That way it will be a lot easier to follow your statements and arguments
                        because it is a lot easier to read and chew on. So by the end of the text
                        one can still remember what was at the beginning.

                        It also helps to draw mental mind maps because your structuring (which won't
                        at all limit your argumentation rather to the contrary) helps to set the
                        branches to put your thoughts on.

                        Thanks a lot.

                        All the best
                        Reinhard

                        > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                        > Von: Dougie Rankine [mailto:rankine@...]
                        > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2001 15:01
                        > An: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                        > Betreff: RE: [wwbc] Memory Question for Graham and Others
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Gavin,
                        > No one ever said that memory training was easy. Of if they did, I can't
                        > remember, or they were giving you hype. Part of developing and training
                        > your memory is to learn how it works, how it retains etc. The
                        > only way that
                        > you will learn this is to look at other techniques and find the best ones
                        > that work for you. The more memory techniques you learn, then
                        > the more ways
                        > you have of retaining and getting access to information such as
                        > key concepts
                        > and memories. Like life, it is not so much the achievement, it is the
                        > struggle to get there that matters. What memory techniques will
                        > teach you,
                        > is where you go wrong when you are learning them. How? Because you lose
                        > the memories, which means that something is wrong, either from not
                        > understanding them or having poor quality associations and retention
                        > methods, or for having poor assimilation and comprehension, or a poor
                        > attention span, or because you don't have enough hooks, or you don't use
                        > enough of your senses, or you don't revise often enough, or you
                        > don't spend
                        > enough time learning them. Poor memory can be any of those things, a
                        > combination of them, and more. Dominic O'Brien will tell you
                        > that he spends
                        > 5 or more hours a day on his memory work. Like all good performers,
                        > entertainers and actors, he learns his lines and techniques, till he can
                        > demonstrate them without hesitation, he is a master at it. It is not a
                        > question of luck either, as Gary Player once said," the more you play, the
                        > luckier you get!" By learning different memory systems, then you
                        > will find
                        > the ones that suit you best, you will learn to combine them for different
                        > jobs and functions. SEM3 is a journey into space for me, it exercises my
                        > imagination and my logic and arithmetic by the boxed grid
                        > structure and the
                        > use of key words for numbers. The Dominic O'Brien system does the same
                        > thing but the opposite way round, for me. My journey consists of
                        > a circular
                        > walk which I used to take my daughter on every day, down to our
                        > local park.
                        > In Brent Valley Park, Hanwell, its users would be surprised to
                        > find so many
                        > famous people and events lurking around doing the most
                        > extraordinary things
                        > in various prominent sites, from Betty Boothby shouting "order, order" to
                        > Dominic O'Brien himself fishing out numbers from a fish pond! You need to
                        > learn the numbers one to 100 as associations of names and actions so that
                        > you can say them backwards and forwards just like a poem. Use SEM3 to do
                        > this, by putting each one of Dominic O'Brien's associations into a keyword
                        > in it, or vikki verki. Then you will have two systems to work
                        > from and more
                        > hooks to use. I also have Bruno Furst's number system as part of SEM3, so
                        > if I lose one I can get to it from the others. That's some of the reasons
                        > that Tony Buzan invented it and called it the Self-Enhancing Master Memory
                        > Matrix. You can even put other number systems up to 100 in it
                        > and associate
                        > the words or concepts together. Regarding the memory palace, presumably
                        > that is a variation of the Roman Room, a study in architecture.
                        > You can use
                        > a block of flats or St. Paul's Cathedral, it doesn't really
                        > matter, as long
                        > as you make each room so distinct that it can't be confused with
                        > any other.
                        > 10 storey concrete and glass with 10 rooms in each might make some people
                        > happy, especially if you are a "high flyer" from Noo Yoik. An
                        > olde English
                        > Country House, made of Cotswold stone, full of subsidence, character,
                        > Georgian furniture, arts and crafts textures, Edwardian doors and windows
                        > and earthquake proof, might suit others. The other advantage that an old
                        > house has, (apart from its monetary value and sense of history) is it is
                        > like the human brain, bits have been added on over the years and for that
                        > reason new bits hang a lot easier on it when you are doing memory
                        > work. All
                        > I can say is that it took me a long time to do it, years in fact,
                        > and I have
                        > to keep revising it every so often so that I don't forget them.
                        > But, there
                        > again, I have always accepted that I am a slow learner.
                        > All the best,
                        > Dougie.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: gavino99@... [mailto:gavino99@...]
                        > Sent: 30 January 2001 13:18
                        > To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [wwbc] Memory Question for Graham and Others
                        >
                        > Graham and Others,
                        >
                        > I wonder if I can ask your advice on something. I am focused on
                        > developing my long-term memory in various subjects, using the Memory
                        > Palace/Village concepts.
                        >
                        > My current mini-project is to memorise the "Top 100" Writers found in
                        > Buzan's "Master Your Memory", along with their DOB's, major works and
                        > a few other basic facts. In due course I then want to add additional
                        > facts as I come across them.
                        >
                        > As an experiment I am trying to use a completely imaginary hotel with
                        > 100 rooms. These are divided into 10 corridors, each corridor and
                        > room/furniture within that corridor being colour coded using ROYGBIV,
                        > Black, Grey, and White. The 10 rooms are uniquely defined by the
                        > first piece of furniture, placed in the centre of the room which is
                        > alpha coded - Room 1 = O = Oven, Room 2 = A = Armchair, Room 3 = B =
                        > Bath etc. I have cunningly chosen the furniture so that I have 10
                        > different room types, which I can then add appropriate furniture and
                        > fittings to, and then use to hang the additional facts on.
                        >
                        > Most of the texts talk about using architectural features, columns
                        > etc., but I think that this would take an extraordinary effort to
                        > construct a large building in your imagination
                        >
                        > I am making some progress and the logic seems OK, but it is hard work
                        > and I wonder if you have any suggestions as to a better method?
                        >
                        > In particular, have you ever tried using an imaginary
                        > journey/building for large amounts of data and, if so, how was it
                        > constructed?
                        >
                        > I find real rooms much easier but inevitably start to hit the issue
                        > of running out of rooms/buildings - especially buildings with 100
                        > rooms!
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > GavinO
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The WW Brain Club web site is now back in operation. Check out
                        http://www.brain-club.com Apologies for the outage!
                      • Reinhard K. Koehler
                        Hi Gavin, back to Yates again?;-) Yes this book is available through Amazon even .de (the English books shop there, might take some time but available) ...
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 2 3:11 PM
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                          Hi Gavin,
                          back to Yates again?;-)
                          Yes this book is available through Amazon even .de (the English books shop
                          there, might take some time but available)

                          >
                          > There are various extended quotes from the Yates book on some of the
                          > links that I placed in the files section. Yates book is definitely
                          > available from Amazon UK - or was a couple of months ago. A
                          > challenging read but some really useful stuff.
                          Gavin I think we do still differ on it, for practical memory training I
                          don't hold it that valuable but I DO consider it phantastic about the
                          philosophic and historical development of thinking and the involvement of
                          memory. I find it too little detailed (like the theatre memory systems) to
                          have an hands-on application. But I know we come from different directions
                          and languages ;-)

                          All the best
                          Reinhard

                          >
                          > GavinO
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In wwbc@y..., "Dougie Rankine" <rankine@r...> wrote:
                          > > Dear Colleagues,
                          > > Does anyone know if there is any chance of reading those sources on
                          > line?
                          > > All the best,
                          > > Dougie.
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: gavino99@a... [mailto:gavino99@a...]
                          > > Sent: 02 February 2001 16:23
                          > > To: wwbc@y...
                          > > Subject: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others
                          > >
                          > > Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                          > > (Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed
                          > > at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".
                          > >
                          > > Regards
                          > >
                          > > Gavin
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The WW Brain Club web site is now back in operation. Check out
                          http://www.brain-club.com Apologies for the outage!
                        • Reinhard K. Koehler
                          Hi Dougie, cicero (however only in Latin): http://patriot.net/~lillard/cp/cic.oratore.html quintilian:
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 2 3:11 PM
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                            Hi Dougie,

                            cicero (however only in Latin):
                            http://patriot.net/~lillard/cp/cic.oratore.html
                            quintilian:
                            http://www.gmu.edu/departments/fld/CLASSICS/quintilian.institutio.html
                            consider especially Book X. BTW looking in German yahoo brings
                            lllllllooooooooooootttttttttttssssssssssssss of hits versus looking up
                            yahoo.com literature section. how come? but no real original source and that
                            is funny because there is n o copyright on it.

                            Someone more luck???
                            Reinhard

                            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                            > Von: Dougie Rankine [mailto:rankine@...]
                            > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Februar 2001 18:02
                            > An: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                            > Betreff: RE: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Colleagues,
                            > Does anyone know if there is any chance of reading those sources on line?
                            > All the best,
                            > Dougie.
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: gavino99@... [mailto:gavino99@...]
                            > Sent: 02 February 2001 16:23
                            > To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others
                            >
                            > Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                            > (Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed
                            > at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".
                            >
                            > Regards
                            >
                            > Gavin
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The WW Brain Club web site is now back in operation. Check out
                            > http://www.brain-club.com Apologies for the outage!
                            >
                            >
                          • Reinhard K. Koehler
                            ... yeap, but there are only there are only German text. I ve just been there and haven t found anything in that direction, there are more Greek philophers
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 2 3:11 PM
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                              >
                              > Do you have the names of some of those Greek / Roman memory
                              > texts? With any luck they are in 'Gutenburgh' e-texts.
                              >
                              yeap, but there are only there are only German text. I've just been there
                              and haven't found anything in that direction, there are more Greek
                              philophers than Romans.
                              Reinhard
                            • Dougie Rankine
                              Dear Reinhard, Thanks for the info. I only know 3 languages, Scottish, English and bad! All the best, Dougie. ... From: Reinhard K. Koehler
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 2 4:20 PM
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                                Dear Reinhard,
                                Thanks for the info. I only know 3 languages, Scottish, English and bad!
                                All the best,
                                Dougie.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Reinhard K. Koehler [mailto:reinhard.koehler@...]
                                Sent: 02 February 2001 23:12
                                To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: AW: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others

                                Hi Dougie,

                                cicero (however only in Latin):
                                http://patriot.net/~lillard/cp/cic.oratore.html
                                quintilian:
                                http://www.gmu.edu/departments/fld/CLASSICS/quintilian.institutio.html
                                consider especially Book X. BTW looking in German yahoo brings
                                lllllllooooooooooootttttttttttssssssssssssss of hits versus looking up
                                yahoo.com literature section. how come? but no real original source and that
                                is funny because there is n o copyright on it.

                                Someone more luck???
                                Reinhard
                              • Reinhard K. Koehler
                                Dougie, don t worry;-) I m a Bavarian and though I am now living in Duesseldorf (for us that is Prussia;-) German still is my worst foreign language;-). People
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 3 1:58 AM
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                                  Dougie, don't worry;-)
                                  I'm a Bavarian and though I am now living in Duesseldorf (for us that is
                                  Prussia;-) German still is my worst foreign language;-). People here after
                                  almost 2 yrs still stay that I'd be speaking still Bavarian but no way the
                                  so called "High German" (which is our writing German). On the other hand if
                                  I get back to Bavaria they say there that I'd speak perfect anything like
                                  High German but that I wouldn't know Bavarian anymore;-))))

                                  BTW I don't know Latin either (my Dad never let me learn it, because my
                                  brother flunked the school because of it)

                                  I haven't found any online resources either neither English nor in German.

                                  However I know it of Germany but probably there is something like that also
                                  in Scotland or England, a little publishing house printing those classics
                                  (because they have no ccopyright on them) for little money in little
                                  booklets. Here they are usually yellow (each color has a meaning) and are
                                  called Reclam Heftchen. It they are thick like an inch they cost you about
                                  €10 max. So instead being online for such a long time it might be even
                                  cheaper to buy it. Besides reading a book is always more fun;-)

                                  All the best Reinhard

                                  > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                  > Von: Dougie Rankine [mailto:rankine@...]
                                  > Gesendet: Samstag, 3. Februar 2001 01:21
                                  > An: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Betreff: RE: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dear Reinhard,
                                  > Thanks for the info. I only know 3 languages, Scottish, English and bad!
                                  > All the best,
                                  > Dougie.
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Reinhard K. Koehler [mailto:reinhard.koehler@...]
                                  > Sent: 02 February 2001 23:12
                                  > To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: AW: [wwbc] Re: Memory Question for Graham and Others
                                  >
                                  > Hi Dougie,
                                  >
                                  > cicero (however only in Latin):
                                  > http://patriot.net/~lillard/cp/cic.oratore.html
                                  > quintilian:
                                  > http://www.gmu.edu/departments/fld/CLASSICS/quintilian.institutio.html
                                  > consider especially Book X. BTW looking in German yahoo brings
                                  > lllllllooooooooooootttttttttttssssssssssssss of hits versus looking up
                                  > yahoo.com literature section. how come? but no real original
                                  > source and that
                                  > is funny because there is n o copyright on it.
                                  >
                                  > Someone more luck???
                                  > Reinhard
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The WW Brain Club web site is now back in operation. Check out
                                  http://www.brain-club.com Apologies for the outage!
                                • George Wade
                                  Thanks, Gavin, I m one of those strange people who needs to know where things came from and even go read about it. Not very practical in the sense of getting
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 3 4:16 AM
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                                    Thanks, Gavin,
                                    I'm one of those strange people who needs to know where things came from and even go read about it. Not very practical in the sense of getting the SEM^3 learnt. But practical in the sense of looking for ways to adapt it to my own mind; and, who knows, make some improvements one fine day.

                                    George,
                                    Kochi

                                    On February 03 2001, <gavino99@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                                    >(Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are discussed
                                    >at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".
                                    >
                                    >Regards
                                    >
                                    >Gavin
                                  • George Wade
                                    ... ONLINE? Well, a quick search of my Gutenberg, by author, file showed selected orations by Cicero, in Latin. Mattias, is there an idiotic, ie. Artificially
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 3 4:16 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      On February 03 2001, <gavino99@...> wrote:

                                      >Dougie,
                                      >
                                      >There are various extended quotes from the Yates book on some of the
                                      >links that I placed in the files section. Yates book is definitely
                                      >available from Amazon UK - or was a couple of months ago. A
                                      >challenging read but some really useful stuff.
                                      >
                                      >GavinO

                                      ONLINE?

                                      Well, a quick search of my Gutenberg, by author, file showed selected orations by Cicero, in Latin. Mattias, is there an idiotic, ie. Artificially Insane translator from Latin to English?

                                      Other searches will have to be after a fierce day at work; tomorrow morning even, when it's 'free time' again.

                                      George,
                                      Kochi

                                      >--- In wwbc@y..., "Dougie Rankine" <rankine@r...> wrote:
                                      >> Dear Colleagues,
                                      >> Does anyone know if there is any chance of reading those sources on
                                      >line?
                                      >> All the best,
                                      >> Dougie.
                                    • gavino99@aol.com
                                      George, I think that you are absolutely right. I myself am striving for a mixture of theoretical knowledge and practical experience in this fascinating field.
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 3 11:11 AM
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                                        George,

                                        I think that you are absolutely right. I myself am striving for a
                                        mixture of theoretical knowledge and practical experience in this
                                        fascinating field. In the past I have tried other things too much
                                        from one direction or the other.

                                        Gavin


                                        --- In wwbc@y..., "George Wade" <geogwade@p...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Thanks, Gavin,
                                        > I'm one of those strange people who
                                        needs to know where things came from and even go read about it. Not
                                        very practical in the sense of getting the SEM^3 learnt. But
                                        practical in the sense of looking for ways to adapt it to my own
                                        mind; and, who knows, make some improvements one fine day.
                                        >
                                        > George,
                                        > Kochi
                                        >
                                        > On February 03 2001, <gavino99@a...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                                        > >(Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are
                                        discussed
                                        > >at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".
                                        > >
                                        > >Regards
                                        > >
                                        > >Gavin
                                      • gavino99@aol.com
                                        What I forgot to mention in my last reply is that I find that this group is great for mixing the theory and practise. Certainly the memory literature seems to
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Feb 3 11:15 AM
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                                          What I forgot to mention in my last reply is that I find that this
                                          group is great for mixing the theory and practise. Certainly the
                                          memory literature seems to me to lack the really practical stuff that
                                          we discuss here.

                                          --- In wwbc@y..., "George Wade" <geogwade@p...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Thanks, Gavin,
                                          > I'm one of those strange people who
                                          needs to know where things came from and even go read about it. Not
                                          very practical in the sense of getting the SEM^3 learnt. But
                                          practical in the sense of looking for ways to adapt it to my own
                                          mind; and, who knows, make some improvements one fine day.
                                          >
                                          > George,
                                          > Kochi
                                          >
                                          > On February 03 2001, <gavino99@a...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >Ad Herennium (Anon),De oratore (Cicero) and Institutio oratoria
                                          > >(Quintilian)seem to be the main sources. All of these are
                                          discussed
                                          > >at length in the Frances Yates book "The Art of Memory".
                                          > >
                                          > >Regards
                                          > >
                                          > >Gavin
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