Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [wwbc] Re: A question

Expand Messages
  • Joe
    All Again, mostly an irrelevant answers or a change of subject, true to form or expected behaviour. As I have said before thanks to the people who did answer
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 1, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      All

      Again, mostly an irrelevant answers or a change of subject, true to form or
      expected behaviour. As I have said before thanks to the people who did
      answer and no thanks to those who don't.

      Moss grows fat on a rolling stone
      Don Mclean (American Pie) while we are quoting songs


      -----Original Message-----
      From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      madcowsc
      Sent: 01 October 2005 02:28
      To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question

      >and how high did the moody blues fly when they left thought behind

      The thought went into me like a heavenly seed that protects me
      and leads me toward the light.

      Sid

      Nature Rules!!

      --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@y...> wrote:
      > and how high did the moody blues fly when they left thought behind,
      > far biger then most rock stars
      > if any body want's to argue about altered states anymore, please, i
      beg of you raise your arguments with www.maps.org or personaly with
      albert hoffmann 1000 years old january next year, if you still have
      problems, i'll sought it, instantly
      > love and freedom are at the begining
      > NAME ONE THOUGHT OUT OF THE WORKING ENVIROMENT THAT IS WILL BE OR
      HAS BEEN PROVEN TRUE
      > remeber the greeks beleived the sun revolved around the earth, and
      still came up with thought's that where not based on work
      > meditate and observe and you will be free
      >
      > madcowsc <madcowsc@y...> wrote:
      > >thought is limited to the working enviroment
      >
      > "And you can fly. High as a kite, if you want to.
      > faster than light, if you want to. Speeding
      > through the universe. THINKING is the best
      > way to travel"...
      >
      > ~The Moody Blues~
      >
      > Noble be man,
      > Helpful and good!
      > For that alone
      > Sets him apart
      > From every other creature
      > On earth.
      > ~Goethe~
      >
      > Martin,
      > Words have a rhyme and a reason.
      > The pattern in these words are
      > repetitve yet few admit they exist.
      > (my last question)
      >
      > To limit thought, is to limit life!
      >
      > Sid
      >
      > --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@y...>
      wrote:
      > > if you have any memory capacity left you might remeber the same
      > question posed a while back by no other then the legendery neil
      young
      > and crosby stills and nash
      > > question of a thousand dreams
      > > thought is limited to the working enviroment and nothing else
      > >
      > > the tigers play in the grand final sydney australia 7.00pm tomorow
      > > love em or leave em
      > > so far this year i've acomplished everything, thanks a lot to you
      > guys,
      > > fun, sex, money and free are the key words in advertising
      > > i wrote a letter to peter garret m.p., john howard p.m. the
      governer
      > general[australia] and the queen of england [and the political
      parties
      > in england] asking,
      > > how can you except the people to support an unsustainable society,
      > and your sources of information
      > > by all legal laws of any land i should have been tried for high
      > treason by now,
      > > letters where sent by registered mail
      > > love and freedom are at the begining
      > >
      > >
      > > madcowsc <madcowsc@y...> wrote:
      > > Joe,
      > >
      > > I have been asking question since I was able to talk.
      > > It has been my experience that most people either
      > > don't like questions that point to a truth or are
      > > really ignorant of the question and its' answer.
      > > Then there are those that know the answer but deny
      > > because of mental(social or cultural)issues. These
      > > are the people ruining our world.
      > >
      > > Which begs the question:
      > >
      > > Who put them in charge? and why?
      > >
      > > Sid
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe " <joe@t...> wrote:
      > > > Something which has been nagging at me for sometime and today I
      > > would like
      > > > to ask the people in this group to help me answer this question.
      I
      > > would
      > > > like to say thank you in advance to the people who help to solve
      > it
      > > and no
      > > > thank you to the people who don't.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all
      > > over, to
      > > > not really answer a question but to bat it away with either
      > another
      > > question
      > > > or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of
      > "that
      > > is not
      > > > what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you
      > > knew what
      > > > you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they
      > knew
      > > the
      > > > answer they would not ask.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no
      and
      > > to then
      > > > proceed with another question.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Why does this happen?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Thanks
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Joe
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat
      > for information on how to become a better thinker.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      > >
      > >
      > > Visit your group "wwbc" on the web.
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere
      > Photos and full Actor Database.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat
      for information on how to become a better thinker.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS
      > Science kits Science education Online social science degree Science
      kit for kid Mind map Social science course
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      > Visit your group "wwbc" on the web.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Photos: Now with unlimited storage
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
      information on how to become a better thinker.

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Elliott Bignell
      Hi, Joe, I used a term recently in a rant title: value rigidity . I believe that this constitutes part of an answer. People s reaction to anything that
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Joe,

        I used a term recently in a rant title: "value rigidity". I believe that
        this constitutes part of an answer. People's reaction to anything that
        contradicts their existing paradigms is usually to try to reframe the
        material itself to fit with what they want to be true. Tactics to achieve
        this include questioning the motives of the provider of new material,
        implicitly undermining its possible truth, and changing the subject to
        "quarantine" the material, buiding a cyst of non-acknowledgement around it
        to prevent it causing friction as it rubs against neighbouring ideas.

        More often than not, people are trying to advocate another position when
        they use one of the tactics you describe. Don't forget that, where the
        truths are genuinely contradictory, on average they will be RIGHT half the
        time. They may be trying to deflect something discomfiting, but they can
        also make an honest attempt to break your own paradigms and get you to see
        that the question contains implicit fallacies, such as a false dichotomy.
        More often they will make a DISHONEST attempt to get around an obstacle to
        their existing beliefs, or a self-regarding attempt to get the other to see
        things their way first, with reconsidering their own paradigm an absolute
        last resort.

        When it comes down to it, people don't easily give up patterns of thought
        that they have spent years polishing. Human nature is to react to something
        that undermines their viewpoint as if it were a threat. My lesson for today
        is that provoking this threat reaction is a counterproductive act and I
        should stop doing it. It just makes people hang on harder to what they want
        to believe. Including me.

        Cheers..
        Elliott


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Joe " <joe@...>
        To: <wwbc@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:17 PM
        Subject: [wwbc] A question


        > Something which has been nagging at me for sometime and today I would like
        > to ask the people in this group to help me answer this question. I would
        > like to say thank you in advance to the people who help to solve it and no
        > thank you to the people who don't.
        >
        >
        >
        > It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all over, to
        > not really answer a question but to bat it away with either another
        question
        > or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of "that is
        not
        > what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you knew what
        > you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they knew the
        > answer they would not ask.
        >
        >
        >
        > Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no and to then
        > proceed with another question.
        >
        >
        >
        > Why does this happen?
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        >
        >
        > Joe
        >
        >
        >
      • madcowsc
        Do you recall what was revealed the day the music died? ~Don McLeon~ Joe, I answered your question. People dodge answers for three reasons; ignorance, denial
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          "Do you recall what was revealed the day the music died?"
          ~Don McLeon~

          Joe,

          I answered your question. People dodge answers for
          three reasons; ignorance, denial or social status.
          Some do answer questions and think critically about
          the world.(I didn't mention the latter).

          Did you not understand me?

          Are you trying to "dodge" my answer?

          It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with
          their mathematical logic. Measuring, building
          and profiting are three ways their mathematics
          have destroyed The Earth, made people live
          longer only to increase the population and thus
          the output of waste. The results of this thinking
          is not logical-even for a left brained person.
          Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste,
          how do the "left brainiacs" intend to solve
          this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution
          where we spread acceptance of the waste or
          denial there of? Feel free to change the subject
          if you don't like my answer.

          Let's shift our focus on the right brained and
          "ambidextrous"(uses both sides) thinkers. We
          have existed for the same number of years as
          the left brainers. Our thinking, primarily
          used for culture, has been discounted as
          "illogical" and "emotional" and of no use to
          the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of
          this capacity. Brains or thought got us into
          the mess we face today. Thought can solve the
          problem. But as so many have a twisted view
          of right brained thinking, this will be hard
          to accomplish-like getting answers to your
          questions...

          There does exist a pattern in prose-not just
          bible code, that "reveal" the answers.
          But once again, this side of the brain which
          interprets cultural writings is discounted as
          being useless.

          Wake-up. Listen. Remember.

          Does it even concern you this "prose" has
          changed its' tones but still contains the same
          message? When Yahoo is back online, I will
          send you more from "madcowFM". So I leave
          you with the lyrics:

          Song: Make A Move Lyrics By Incubus

          I'm at the end of my report again
          For those who won't do apathy
          You had the perfect opportunity
          But plead the fifth and walked away

          Oh
          Say something
          Make us proud, cast the first stone
          Say any--anything at all

          Make a move
          Make a move

          From every one thing we're ignorant of
          A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah
          You saw the apple hanging on the tree
          But missed the orchard in your gaze

          Oh
          Say something
          Make us proud, cast the first stone
          Say any - anything at all

          Make a move
          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
          Make a move

          Ha
          I'm cautious of who I would call a friend
          Who you acquaint is who you are
          The darkest hours are when we choose a side
          So make your pick and take a fall

          Oh, oh
          Say something
          Heh
          Say anything at all

          Make a move
          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
          Make a move
          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
          Make a move
          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
          Make a move
        • Joe
          Elliot Thanks for this, your last few words are something I should take a lesson from. I do sometimes take the action to confront and battle back to ask them
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Elliot


            Thanks for this, your last few words are something I should take a lesson
            from.

            I do sometimes take the action to confront and battle back to ask them to
            look at things from another view. I will try to reframe the view the
            currently hold just by asking them to look from another point of view. It is
            quite amazing how many people either do not want to or when they do still
            drift back to their own paradigm and say it is because I only look from my
            view that I say those things.

            If this be the case then I will try to look from both sides, but should
            anyone looking at this mail just try a little experiment, when you notice
            someone who appears to have a very one sided view ask them to completely
            reverse it and see what happens.

            Thanks for the answer Elliot

            -----Original Message-----
            From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Elliott Bignell
            Sent: 01 October 2005 10:06
            To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [wwbc] A question

            Hi, Joe,

            I used a term recently in a rant title: "value rigidity". I believe that
            this constitutes part of an answer. People's reaction to anything that
            contradicts their existing paradigms is usually to try to reframe the
            material itself to fit with what they want to be true. Tactics to achieve
            this include questioning the motives of the provider of new material,
            implicitly undermining its possible truth, and changing the subject to
            "quarantine" the material, buiding a cyst of non-acknowledgement around it
            to prevent it causing friction as it rubs against neighbouring ideas.

            More often than not, people are trying to advocate another position when
            they use one of the tactics you describe. Don't forget that, where the
            truths are genuinely contradictory, on average they will be RIGHT half the
            time. They may be trying to deflect something discomfiting, but they can
            also make an honest attempt to break your own paradigms and get you to see
            that the question contains implicit fallacies, such as a false dichotomy.
            More often they will make a DISHONEST attempt to get around an obstacle to
            their existing beliefs, or a self-regarding attempt to get the other to see
            things their way first, with reconsidering their own paradigm an absolute
            last resort.

            When it comes down to it, people don't easily give up patterns of thought
            that they have spent years polishing. Human nature is to react to something
            that undermines their viewpoint as if it were a threat. My lesson for today
            is that provoking this threat reaction is a counterproductive act and I
            should stop doing it. It just makes people hang on harder to what they want
            to believe. Including me.

            Cheers..
            Elliott


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Joe " <joe@...>
            To: <wwbc@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:17 PM
            Subject: [wwbc] A question


            > Something which has been nagging at me for sometime and today I would like
            > to ask the people in this group to help me answer this question. I would
            > like to say thank you in advance to the people who help to solve it and no
            > thank you to the people who don't.
            >
            >
            >
            > It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all over, to
            > not really answer a question but to bat it away with either another
            question
            > or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of "that is
            not
            > what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you knew what
            > you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they knew the
            > answer they would not ask.
            >
            >
            >
            > Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no and to then
            > proceed with another question.
            >
            >
            >
            > Why does this happen?
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            >




            Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
            information on how to become a better thinker.

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Joe
            Interesting. I will thank you for the reply you have supplied if that is what you need to help you get through, just because we do not see, feel, or hear
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 1, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Interesting.



              I will thank you for the reply you have supplied if that is what you need to
              help you get through, just because we do not see, feel, or hear things in
              the same way it does not mean we do not understand, just because I did not
              agree that you answered the question it could, as you aptly put it, we were
              coming from different ends of the question, let me try to expand on this
              statement without the use of another persons lyrics.



              Firstly I will happily answer the question you have submitted below let me
              complete those then go back to where I began.



              Joe,



              I answered your question. People dodge answers for three reasons; ignorance,
              denial or social status. Some do answer questions and think critically about
              the world.(I didn't mention the latter).



              Good statement lets continue

              Did you not understand me? - I have answered this further down the page so I
              have not ignored this question.



              Are you trying to "dodge" my answer? - Again I have commented on this below.



              It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with their mathematical logic.
              Measuring, building and profiting are three ways their mathematics have
              destroyed The Earth, made people live

              longer only to increase the population and thus the output of waste.



              "Seems" would make this an assumption on your behalf, I am at this point not
              saying I disagree with you, we do have many problems in the world. One of
              these is that many people do not talk to, in this I include the written
              word, each other they talk at each other trying to bludgeon their view
              across so that the other party is left with no discussion just what the
              other person wanted them to know. I do not include you in this as you have
              at least made me think and that is one way to encourage and inspire
              intelligent conversation.



              The results of this thinking is not logical-even for a left brained person.
              Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste, how do the "left brainiacs"
              intend to solve this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution where we
              spread acceptance of the waste or denial there of? Feel free to change the
              subject if you don't like my answer.



              OK lets see if I can at least understand. You point at the problems of the
              world, good call, and rightly or wrongly find someone to blame it on, now
              you have found someone to point the finger at in turn you can now remove the
              blame from the other party. NLP won't help you to solve the waste problem
              and I am struggling to connect the two subjects but hey no one can
              accomplish all without the help of others, unless you blame them for the
              problem. I won't change the subject we can discuss any subject you are
              drawn too.



              Let's shift our focus on the right brained and "ambidextrous"(uses both
              sides) thinkers. We have existed for the same number of years as the left
              brainers. Our thinking, primarily

              used for culture, has been discounted as "illogical" and "emotional" and of
              no use to the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of this capacity.
              Brains or thought got us into the mess we face today. Thought can solve the
              problem. But as so many have a twisted view of right brained thinking, this
              will be hard to accomplish-like getting answers to your questions...

              Getting lucid answers can be a problem, "Left Brained" may or may not be
              your favourable participant in the way we exist, Right Brained may or may
              not be your partners in thought, by the same token ambidextrous users of the
              acumen we all possess may be the ultimate thinker, only by talking,
              listening and trying to view things from someone else's point of view can we
              ensure any form of solutions to the problems we all face today.

              In order to be more "whole-brained" in orientation, we need to give equal
              weight to the arts, creativity, and the skills of imagination and synthesis.
              Not just insist on one form of education, which in turn will lead us very
              neatly toward the situation you have very eloquently described above.



              There does exist a pattern in prose-not just bible code, that "reveal" the
              answers. But once again, this side of the brain which interprets cultural
              writings is discounted as being useless.

              I can not disagree with you on this as I have no basis to agree or disagree.
              Could you tell me something I can read which may enlighten me?



              Wake-up. Listen. Remember.

              I do listen, I do remember, I try to stay awake



              Does it even concern you this "prose" has changed its' tones but still
              contains the same message? When Yahoo is back online, I will send you more
              from "madcowFM".



              I have seen how this has changed, does it concern me, and my position has
              not changed at this time.



              I have cut the rest of the message not to censor but to remove just lyrics.



              Just to recap

              The question I asked was

              Why does this happen?



              The questions was concerning



              It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all over, to
              not really answer a question but to bat it away with either another question
              or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of "that is not
              what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you knew what
              you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they knew the
              answer they would not ask.



              Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no and to then
              proceed with another question.



              Your apparent answer

              I have been asking question since I was able to talk. - no answer here just
              telling me what you have been doing



              It has been my experience that most people either don't like questions that
              point to a truth or are really ignorant of the question and its' answer. -
              No can not see feel or hear an answer here either



              Then there are those that know the answer but deny because of mental(social
              or cultural)issues. These are the people ruining our world. - You were going
              somewhere with the first bit but then we got an opinion of what others are
              doing not an answer



              And now the obligatory question



              Which begs the question:



              Who put them in charge? and why?



              Who put them in charge, if I knew who then are then maybe I would hazard a
              guess, if you mean left brainers then it seems that may have been the
              voters, did you vote for them? Why because they were the best salesmen of
              the day, falsely or artificially created maybe but still the better salesmen
              of the day.



              I would like to say I do enjoy this verbal game of chess and thank you for
              joining in </wink>



              Joe











              -----Original Message-----
              From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              madcowsc
              Sent: 01 October 2005 17:01
              To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question



              "Do you recall what was revealed the day the music died?"

              ~Don McLeon~



              Joe,



              I answered your question. People dodge answers for

              three reasons; ignorance, denial or social status.

              Some do answer questions and think critically about

              the world.(I didn't mention the latter).



              Did you not understand me?



              Are you trying to "dodge" my answer?



              It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with

              their mathematical logic. Measuring, building

              and profiting are three ways their mathematics

              have destroyed The Earth, made people live

              longer only to increase the population and thus

              the output of waste. The results of this thinking

              is not logical-even for a left brained person.

              Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste,

              how do the "left brainiacs" intend to solve

              this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution

              where we spread acceptance of the waste or

              denial there of? Feel free to change the subject

              if you don't like my answer.



              Let's shift our focus on the right brained and

              "ambidextrous"(uses both sides) thinkers. We

              have existed for the same number of years as

              the left brainers. Our thinking, primarily

              used for culture, has been discounted as

              "illogical" and "emotional" and of no use to

              the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of

              this capacity. Brains or thought got us into

              the mess we face today. Thought can solve the

              problem. But as so many have a twisted view

              of right brained thinking, this will be hard

              to accomplish-like getting answers to your

              questions...



              There does exist a pattern in prose-not just

              bible code, that "reveal" the answers.

              But once again, this side of the brain which

              interprets cultural writings is discounted as

              being useless.



              Wake-up. Listen. Remember.



              Does it even concern you this "prose" has

              changed its' tones but still contains the same

              message? When Yahoo is back online, I will

              send you more from "madcowFM". So I leave

              you with the lyrics:



              Song: Make A Move Lyrics By Incubus



              I'm at the end of my report again

              For those who won't do apathy

              You had the perfect opportunity

              But plead the fifth and walked away



              Oh

              Say something

              Make us proud, cast the first stone

              Say any--anything at all



              Make a move

              Make a move



              From every one thing we're ignorant of

              A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah

              You saw the apple hanging on the tree

              But missed the orchard in your gaze



              Oh

              Say something

              Make us proud, cast the first stone

              Say any - anything at all



              Make a move

              (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)

              Make a move



              Ha

              I'm cautious of who I would call a friend

              Who you acquaint is who you are

              The darkest hours are when we choose a side

              So make your pick and take a fall



              Oh, oh

              Say something

              Heh

              Say anything at all



              Make a move

              (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)

              Make a move

              (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)

              Make a move

              (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)

              Make a move


















              Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
              information on how to become a better thinker.



              Yahoo! Groups Links



              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwbc/



              wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • madcowsc
              Has anyone watched snow fall while listening to Mozart? Maybe so, but some didn t notice that they keep time to his music-all of it!!!! I am awe struck by this
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 1, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Has anyone watched snow fall while listening to Mozart?
                Maybe so, but some didn't notice that they keep time to
                his music-all of it!!!! I am awe struck by this miracle
                of nature and heartbroken more people don't notice or
                appreciate it.

                Sid

                --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@t...> wrote:
                > Interesting.
                >
                >
                >
                > I will thank you for the reply you have supplied if that is what you
                need to
                > help you get through, just because we do not see, feel, or hear
                things in
                > the same way it does not mean we do not understand, just because I
                did not
                > agree that you answered the question it could, as you aptly put it,
                we were
                > coming from different ends of the question, let me try to expand on
                this
                > statement without the use of another persons lyrics.
                >
                >
                >
                > Firstly I will happily answer the question you have submitted below
                let me
                > complete those then go back to where I began.
                >
                >
                >
                > Joe,
                >
                >
                >
                > I answered your question. People dodge answers for three reasons;
                ignorance,
                > denial or social status. Some do answer questions and think
                critically about
                > the world.(I didn't mention the latter).
                >
                >
                >
                > Good statement lets continue
                >
                > Did you not understand me? - I have answered this further down the
                page so I
                > have not ignored this question.
                >
                >
                >
                > Are you trying to "dodge" my answer? - Again I have commented on
                this below.
                >
                >
                >
                > It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with their mathematical
                logic.
                > Measuring, building and profiting are three ways their mathematics
                have
                > destroyed The Earth, made people live
                >
                > longer only to increase the population and thus the output of waste.
                >
                >
                >
                > "Seems" would make this an assumption on your behalf, I am at this
                point not
                > saying I disagree with you, we do have many problems in the world.
                One of
                > these is that many people do not talk to, in this I include the
                written
                > word, each other they talk at each other trying to bludgeon their
                view
                > across so that the other party is left with no discussion just what
                the
                > other person wanted them to know. I do not include you in this as
                you have
                > at least made me think and that is one way to encourage and inspire
                > intelligent conversation.
                >
                >
                >
                > The results of this thinking is not logical-even for a left brained
                person.
                > Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste, how do the "left
                brainiacs"
                > intend to solve this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution where
                we
                > spread acceptance of the waste or denial there of? Feel free to
                change the
                > subject if you don't like my answer.
                >
                >
                >
                > OK lets see if I can at least understand. You point at the problems
                of the
                > world, good call, and rightly or wrongly find someone to blame it
                on, now
                > you have found someone to point the finger at in turn you can now
                remove the
                > blame from the other party. NLP won't help you to solve the waste
                problem
                > and I am struggling to connect the two subjects but hey no one can
                > accomplish all without the help of others, unless you blame them for
                the
                > problem. I won't change the subject we can discuss any subject you
                are
                > drawn too.
                >
                >
                >
                > Let's shift our focus on the right brained and "ambidextrous"(uses
                both
                > sides) thinkers. We have existed for the same number of years as the
                left
                > brainers. Our thinking, primarily
                >
                > used for culture, has been discounted as "illogical" and "emotional"
                and of
                > no use to the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of this
                capacity.
                > Brains or thought got us into the mess we face today. Thought can
                solve the
                > problem. But as so many have a twisted view of right brained
                thinking, this
                > will be hard to accomplish-like getting answers to your questions...
                >
                > Getting lucid answers can be a problem, "Left Brained" may or may
                not be
                > your favourable participant in the way we exist, Right Brained may
                or may
                > not be your partners in thought, by the same token ambidextrous
                users of the
                > acumen we all possess may be the ultimate thinker, only by talking,
                > listening and trying to view things from someone else's point of
                view can we
                > ensure any form of solutions to the problems we all face today.
                >
                > In order to be more "whole-brained" in orientation, we need to give
                equal
                > weight to the arts, creativity, and the skills of imagination and
                synthesis.
                > Not just insist on one form of education, which in turn will lead us
                very
                > neatly toward the situation you have very eloquently described
                above.
                >
                >
                >
                > There does exist a pattern in prose-not just bible code, that
                "reveal" the
                > answers. But once again, this side of the brain which interprets
                cultural
                > writings is discounted as being useless.
                >
                > I can not disagree with you on this as I have no basis to agree or
                disagree.
                > Could you tell me something I can read which may enlighten me?
                >
                >
                >
                > Wake-up. Listen. Remember.
                >
                > I do listen, I do remember, I try to stay awake
                >
                >
                >
                > Does it even concern you this "prose" has changed its' tones but
                still
                > contains the same message? When Yahoo is back online, I will send
                you more
                > from "madcowFM".
                >
                >
                >
                > I have seen how this has changed, does it concern me, and my
                position has
                > not changed at this time.
                >
                >
                >
                > I have cut the rest of the message not to censor but to remove just
                lyrics.
                >
                >
                >
                > Just to recap
                >
                > The question I asked was
                >
                > Why does this happen?
                >
                >
                >
                > The questions was concerning
                >
                >
                >
                > It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all
                over, to
                > not really answer a question but to bat it away with either another
                question
                > or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of "that
                is not
                > what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you
                knew what
                > you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they knew
                the
                > answer they would not ask.
                >
                >
                >
                > Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no and
                to then
                > proceed with another question.
                >
                >
                >
                > Your apparent answer
                >
                > I have been asking question since I was able to talk. - no answer
                here just
                > telling me what you have been doing
                >
                >
                >
                > It has been my experience that most people either don't like
                questions that
                > point to a truth or are really ignorant of the question and its'
                answer. -
                > No can not see feel or hear an answer here either
                >
                >
                >
                > Then there are those that know the answer but deny because of
                mental(social
                > or cultural)issues. These are the people ruining our world. - You
                were going
                > somewhere with the first bit but then we got an opinion of what
                others are
                > doing not an answer
                >
                >
                >
                > And now the obligatory question
                >
                >
                >
                > Which begs the question:
                >
                >
                >
                > Who put them in charge? and why?
                >
                >
                >
                > Who put them in charge, if I knew who then are then maybe I would
                hazard a
                > guess, if you mean left brainers then it seems that may have been
                the
                > voters, did you vote for them? Why because they were the best
                salesmen of
                > the day, falsely or artificially created maybe but still the better
                salesmen
                > of the day.
                >
                >
                >
                > I would like to say I do enjoy this verbal game of chess and thank
                you for
                > joining in </wink>
                >
                >
                >
                > Joe
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of
                > madcowsc
                > Sent: 01 October 2005 17:01
                > To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question
                >
                >
                >
                > "Do you recall what was revealed the day the music died?"
                >
                > ~Don McLeon~
                >
                >
                >
                > Joe,
                >
                >
                >
                > I answered your question. People dodge answers for
                >
                > three reasons; ignorance, denial or social status.
                >
                > Some do answer questions and think critically about
                >
                > the world.(I didn't mention the latter).
                >
                >
                >
                > Did you not understand me?
                >
                >
                >
                > Are you trying to "dodge" my answer?
                >
                >
                >
                > It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with
                >
                > their mathematical logic. Measuring, building
                >
                > and profiting are three ways their mathematics
                >
                > have destroyed The Earth, made people live
                >
                > longer only to increase the population and thus
                >
                > the output of waste. The results of this thinking
                >
                > is not logical-even for a left brained person.
                >
                > Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste,
                >
                > how do the "left brainiacs" intend to solve
                >
                > this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution
                >
                > where we spread acceptance of the waste or
                >
                > denial there of? Feel free to change the subject
                >
                > if you don't like my answer.
                >
                >
                >
                > Let's shift our focus on the right brained and
                >
                > "ambidextrous"(uses both sides) thinkers. We
                >
                > have existed for the same number of years as
                >
                > the left brainers. Our thinking, primarily
                >
                > used for culture, has been discounted as
                >
                > "illogical" and "emotional" and of no use to
                >
                > the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of
                >
                > this capacity. Brains or thought got us into
                >
                > the mess we face today. Thought can solve the
                >
                > problem. But as so many have a twisted view
                >
                > of right brained thinking, this will be hard
                >
                > to accomplish-like getting answers to your
                >
                > questions...
                >
                >
                >
                > There does exist a pattern in prose-not just
                >
                > bible code, that "reveal" the answers.
                >
                > But once again, this side of the brain which
                >
                > interprets cultural writings is discounted as
                >
                > being useless.
                >
                >
                >
                > Wake-up. Listen. Remember.
                >
                >
                >
                > Does it even concern you this "prose" has
                >
                > changed its' tones but still contains the same
                >
                > message? When Yahoo is back online, I will
                >
                > send you more from "madcowFM". So I leave
                >
                > you with the lyrics:
                >
                >
                >
                > Song: Make A Move Lyrics By Incubus
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm at the end of my report again
                >
                > For those who won't do apathy
                >
                > You had the perfect opportunity
                >
                > But plead the fifth and walked away
                >
                >
                >
                > Oh
                >
                > Say something
                >
                > Make us proud, cast the first stone
                >
                > Say any--anything at all
                >
                >
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                >
                >
                > From every one thing we're ignorant of
                >
                > A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah
                >
                > You saw the apple hanging on the tree
                >
                > But missed the orchard in your gaze
                >
                >
                >
                > Oh
                >
                > Say something
                >
                > Make us proud, cast the first stone
                >
                > Say any - anything at all
                >
                >
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                >
                >
                > Ha
                >
                > I'm cautious of who I would call a friend
                >
                > Who you acquaint is who you are
                >
                > The darkest hours are when we choose a side
                >
                > So make your pick and take a fall
                >
                >
                >
                > Oh, oh
                >
                > Say something
                >
                > Heh
                >
                > Say anything at all
                >
                >
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                >
                > Make a move
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat
                for
                > information on how to become a better thinker.
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwbc/
                >
                >
                >
                > wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joe
                Is that view a stage that is set a manipulated environment or a wonder of nature? Either way what an enjoyable vision. ... From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Is that view a stage that is set a manipulated environment or a wonder of
                  nature? Either way what an enjoyable vision.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  madcowsc
                  Sent: 02 October 2005 01:34
                  To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question

                  Has anyone watched snow fall while listening to Mozart?
                  Maybe so, but some didn't notice that they keep time to
                  his music-all of it!!!! I am awe struck by this miracle
                  of nature and heartbroken more people don't notice or
                  appreciate it.

                  Sid

                  --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@t...> wrote:
                  > Interesting.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I will thank you for the reply you have supplied if that is what you
                  need to
                  > help you get through, just because we do not see, feel, or hear
                  things in
                  > the same way it does not mean we do not understand, just because I
                  did not
                  > agree that you answered the question it could, as you aptly put it,
                  we were
                  > coming from different ends of the question, let me try to expand on
                  this
                  > statement without the use of another persons lyrics.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Firstly I will happily answer the question you have submitted below
                  let me
                  > complete those then go back to where I began.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Joe,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I answered your question. People dodge answers for three reasons;
                  ignorance,
                  > denial or social status. Some do answer questions and think
                  critically about
                  > the world.(I didn't mention the latter).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Good statement lets continue
                  >
                  > Did you not understand me? - I have answered this further down the
                  page so I
                  > have not ignored this question.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Are you trying to "dodge" my answer? - Again I have commented on
                  this below.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with their mathematical
                  logic.
                  > Measuring, building and profiting are three ways their mathematics
                  have
                  > destroyed The Earth, made people live
                  >
                  > longer only to increase the population and thus the output of waste.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > "Seems" would make this an assumption on your behalf, I am at this
                  point not
                  > saying I disagree with you, we do have many problems in the world.
                  One of
                  > these is that many people do not talk to, in this I include the
                  written
                  > word, each other they talk at each other trying to bludgeon their
                  view
                  > across so that the other party is left with no discussion just what
                  the
                  > other person wanted them to know. I do not include you in this as
                  you have
                  > at least made me think and that is one way to encourage and inspire
                  > intelligent conversation.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The results of this thinking is not logical-even for a left brained
                  person.
                  > Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste, how do the "left
                  brainiacs"
                  > intend to solve this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution where
                  we
                  > spread acceptance of the waste or denial there of? Feel free to
                  change the
                  > subject if you don't like my answer.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > OK lets see if I can at least understand. You point at the problems
                  of the
                  > world, good call, and rightly or wrongly find someone to blame it
                  on, now
                  > you have found someone to point the finger at in turn you can now
                  remove the
                  > blame from the other party. NLP won't help you to solve the waste
                  problem
                  > and I am struggling to connect the two subjects but hey no one can
                  > accomplish all without the help of others, unless you blame them for
                  the
                  > problem. I won't change the subject we can discuss any subject you
                  are
                  > drawn too.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Let's shift our focus on the right brained and "ambidextrous"(uses
                  both
                  > sides) thinkers. We have existed for the same number of years as the
                  left
                  > brainers. Our thinking, primarily
                  >
                  > used for culture, has been discounted as "illogical" and "emotional"
                  and of
                  > no use to the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of this
                  capacity.
                  > Brains or thought got us into the mess we face today. Thought can
                  solve the
                  > problem. But as so many have a twisted view of right brained
                  thinking, this
                  > will be hard to accomplish-like getting answers to your questions...
                  >
                  > Getting lucid answers can be a problem, "Left Brained" may or may
                  not be
                  > your favourable participant in the way we exist, Right Brained may
                  or may
                  > not be your partners in thought, by the same token ambidextrous
                  users of the
                  > acumen we all possess may be the ultimate thinker, only by talking,
                  > listening and trying to view things from someone else's point of
                  view can we
                  > ensure any form of solutions to the problems we all face today.
                  >
                  > In order to be more "whole-brained" in orientation, we need to give
                  equal
                  > weight to the arts, creativity, and the skills of imagination and
                  synthesis.
                  > Not just insist on one form of education, which in turn will lead us
                  very
                  > neatly toward the situation you have very eloquently described
                  above.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > There does exist a pattern in prose-not just bible code, that
                  "reveal" the
                  > answers. But once again, this side of the brain which interprets
                  cultural
                  > writings is discounted as being useless.
                  >
                  > I can not disagree with you on this as I have no basis to agree or
                  disagree.
                  > Could you tell me something I can read which may enlighten me?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Wake-up. Listen. Remember.
                  >
                  > I do listen, I do remember, I try to stay awake
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Does it even concern you this "prose" has changed its' tones but
                  still
                  > contains the same message? When Yahoo is back online, I will send
                  you more
                  > from "madcowFM".
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have seen how this has changed, does it concern me, and my
                  position has
                  > not changed at this time.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have cut the rest of the message not to censor but to remove just
                  lyrics.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Just to recap
                  >
                  > The question I asked was
                  >
                  > Why does this happen?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The questions was concerning
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all
                  over, to
                  > not really answer a question but to bat it away with either another
                  question
                  > or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of "that
                  is not
                  > what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you
                  knew what
                  > you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they knew
                  the
                  > answer they would not ask.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no and
                  to then
                  > proceed with another question.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your apparent answer
                  >
                  > I have been asking question since I was able to talk. - no answer
                  here just
                  > telling me what you have been doing
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It has been my experience that most people either don't like
                  questions that
                  > point to a truth or are really ignorant of the question and its'
                  answer. -
                  > No can not see feel or hear an answer here either
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Then there are those that know the answer but deny because of
                  mental(social
                  > or cultural)issues. These are the people ruining our world. - You
                  were going
                  > somewhere with the first bit but then we got an opinion of what
                  others are
                  > doing not an answer
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > And now the obligatory question
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Which begs the question:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Who put them in charge? and why?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Who put them in charge, if I knew who then are then maybe I would
                  hazard a
                  > guess, if you mean left brainers then it seems that may have been
                  the
                  > voters, did you vote for them? Why because they were the best
                  salesmen of
                  > the day, falsely or artificially created maybe but still the better
                  salesmen
                  > of the day.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I would like to say I do enjoy this verbal game of chess and thank
                  you for
                  > joining in </wink>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Joe
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of
                  > madcowsc
                  > Sent: 01 October 2005 17:01
                  > To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > "Do you recall what was revealed the day the music died?"
                  >
                  > ~Don McLeon~
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Joe,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I answered your question. People dodge answers for
                  >
                  > three reasons; ignorance, denial or social status.
                  >
                  > Some do answer questions and think critically about
                  >
                  > the world.(I didn't mention the latter).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Did you not understand me?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Are you trying to "dodge" my answer?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with
                  >
                  > their mathematical logic. Measuring, building
                  >
                  > and profiting are three ways their mathematics
                  >
                  > have destroyed The Earth, made people live
                  >
                  > longer only to increase the population and thus
                  >
                  > the output of waste. The results of this thinking
                  >
                  > is not logical-even for a left brained person.
                  >
                  > Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste,
                  >
                  > how do the "left brainiacs" intend to solve
                  >
                  > this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution
                  >
                  > where we spread acceptance of the waste or
                  >
                  > denial there of? Feel free to change the subject
                  >
                  > if you don't like my answer.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Let's shift our focus on the right brained and
                  >
                  > "ambidextrous"(uses both sides) thinkers. We
                  >
                  > have existed for the same number of years as
                  >
                  > the left brainers. Our thinking, primarily
                  >
                  > used for culture, has been discounted as
                  >
                  > "illogical" and "emotional" and of no use to
                  >
                  > the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of
                  >
                  > this capacity. Brains or thought got us into
                  >
                  > the mess we face today. Thought can solve the
                  >
                  > problem. But as so many have a twisted view
                  >
                  > of right brained thinking, this will be hard
                  >
                  > to accomplish-like getting answers to your
                  >
                  > questions...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > There does exist a pattern in prose-not just
                  >
                  > bible code, that "reveal" the answers.
                  >
                  > But once again, this side of the brain which
                  >
                  > interprets cultural writings is discounted as
                  >
                  > being useless.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Wake-up. Listen. Remember.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Does it even concern you this "prose" has
                  >
                  > changed its' tones but still contains the same
                  >
                  > message? When Yahoo is back online, I will
                  >
                  > send you more from "madcowFM". So I leave
                  >
                  > you with the lyrics:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Song: Make A Move Lyrics By Incubus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm at the end of my report again
                  >
                  > For those who won't do apathy
                  >
                  > You had the perfect opportunity
                  >
                  > But plead the fifth and walked away
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh
                  >
                  > Say something
                  >
                  > Make us proud, cast the first stone
                  >
                  > Say any--anything at all
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From every one thing we're ignorant of
                  >
                  > A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah
                  >
                  > You saw the apple hanging on the tree
                  >
                  > But missed the orchard in your gaze
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh
                  >
                  > Say something
                  >
                  > Make us proud, cast the first stone
                  >
                  > Say any - anything at all
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ha
                  >
                  > I'm cautious of who I would call a friend
                  >
                  > Who you acquaint is who you are
                  >
                  > The darkest hours are when we choose a side
                  >
                  > So make your pick and take a fall
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh, oh
                  >
                  > Say something
                  >
                  > Heh
                  >
                  > Say anything at all
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                  >
                  > Make a move
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat
                  for
                  > information on how to become a better thinker.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwbc/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
                  information on how to become a better thinker.

                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Joe
                  Sorry I forgot to say thank you ... From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: 02 October 2005 09:22 To:
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sorry I forgot to say thank you

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe
                    Sent: 02 October 2005 09:22
                    To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [wwbc] Re: A question

                    Is that view a stage that is set a manipulated environment or a wonder of
                    nature? Either way what an enjoyable vision.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    madcowsc
                    Sent: 02 October 2005 01:34
                    To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question

                    Has anyone watched snow fall while listening to Mozart?
                    Maybe so, but some didn't notice that they keep time to
                    his music-all of it!!!! I am awe struck by this miracle
                    of nature and heartbroken more people don't notice or
                    appreciate it.

                    Sid

                    --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@t...> wrote:
                    > Interesting.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I will thank you for the reply you have supplied if that is what you
                    need to
                    > help you get through, just because we do not see, feel, or hear
                    things in
                    > the same way it does not mean we do not understand, just because I
                    did not
                    > agree that you answered the question it could, as you aptly put it,
                    we were
                    > coming from different ends of the question, let me try to expand on
                    this
                    > statement without the use of another persons lyrics.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Firstly I will happily answer the question you have submitted below
                    let me
                    > complete those then go back to where I began.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Joe,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I answered your question. People dodge answers for three reasons;
                    ignorance,
                    > denial or social status. Some do answer questions and think
                    critically about
                    > the world.(I didn't mention the latter).
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Good statement lets continue
                    >
                    > Did you not understand me? - I have answered this further down the
                    page so I
                    > have not ignored this question.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Are you trying to "dodge" my answer? - Again I have commented on
                    this below.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with their mathematical
                    logic.
                    > Measuring, building and profiting are three ways their mathematics
                    have
                    > destroyed The Earth, made people live
                    >
                    > longer only to increase the population and thus the output of waste.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "Seems" would make this an assumption on your behalf, I am at this
                    point not
                    > saying I disagree with you, we do have many problems in the world.
                    One of
                    > these is that many people do not talk to, in this I include the
                    written
                    > word, each other they talk at each other trying to bludgeon their
                    view
                    > across so that the other party is left with no discussion just what
                    the
                    > other person wanted them to know. I do not include you in this as
                    you have
                    > at least made me think and that is one way to encourage and inspire
                    > intelligent conversation.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The results of this thinking is not logical-even for a left brained
                    person.
                    > Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste, how do the "left
                    brainiacs"
                    > intend to solve this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution where
                    we
                    > spread acceptance of the waste or denial there of? Feel free to
                    change the
                    > subject if you don't like my answer.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > OK lets see if I can at least understand. You point at the problems
                    of the
                    > world, good call, and rightly or wrongly find someone to blame it
                    on, now
                    > you have found someone to point the finger at in turn you can now
                    remove the
                    > blame from the other party. NLP won't help you to solve the waste
                    problem
                    > and I am struggling to connect the two subjects but hey no one can
                    > accomplish all without the help of others, unless you blame them for
                    the
                    > problem. I won't change the subject we can discuss any subject you
                    are
                    > drawn too.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Let's shift our focus on the right brained and "ambidextrous"(uses
                    both
                    > sides) thinkers. We have existed for the same number of years as the
                    left
                    > brainers. Our thinking, primarily
                    >
                    > used for culture, has been discounted as "illogical" and "emotional"
                    and of
                    > no use to the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of this
                    capacity.
                    > Brains or thought got us into the mess we face today. Thought can
                    solve the
                    > problem. But as so many have a twisted view of right brained
                    thinking, this
                    > will be hard to accomplish-like getting answers to your questions...
                    >
                    > Getting lucid answers can be a problem, "Left Brained" may or may
                    not be
                    > your favourable participant in the way we exist, Right Brained may
                    or may
                    > not be your partners in thought, by the same token ambidextrous
                    users of the
                    > acumen we all possess may be the ultimate thinker, only by talking,
                    > listening and trying to view things from someone else's point of
                    view can we
                    > ensure any form of solutions to the problems we all face today.
                    >
                    > In order to be more "whole-brained" in orientation, we need to give
                    equal
                    > weight to the arts, creativity, and the skills of imagination and
                    synthesis.
                    > Not just insist on one form of education, which in turn will lead us
                    very
                    > neatly toward the situation you have very eloquently described
                    above.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > There does exist a pattern in prose-not just bible code, that
                    "reveal" the
                    > answers. But once again, this side of the brain which interprets
                    cultural
                    > writings is discounted as being useless.
                    >
                    > I can not disagree with you on this as I have no basis to agree or
                    disagree.
                    > Could you tell me something I can read which may enlighten me?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Wake-up. Listen. Remember.
                    >
                    > I do listen, I do remember, I try to stay awake
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Does it even concern you this "prose" has changed its' tones but
                    still
                    > contains the same message? When Yahoo is back online, I will send
                    you more
                    > from "madcowFM".
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have seen how this has changed, does it concern me, and my
                    position has
                    > not changed at this time.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have cut the rest of the message not to censor but to remove just
                    lyrics.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Just to recap
                    >
                    > The question I asked was
                    >
                    > Why does this happen?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The questions was concerning
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It has seemed to become the norm, not only in this group but all
                    over, to
                    > not really answer a question but to bat it away with either another
                    question
                    > or deflect it with a statement of something along the lines of "that
                    is not
                    > what you really mean" or they will answer questions with "if you
                    knew what
                    > you were talking about you would not ask that question" If they knew
                    the
                    > answer they would not ask.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Another example is for someone to either not answer and say no and
                    to then
                    > proceed with another question.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your apparent answer
                    >
                    > I have been asking question since I was able to talk. - no answer
                    here just
                    > telling me what you have been doing
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It has been my experience that most people either don't like
                    questions that
                    > point to a truth or are really ignorant of the question and its'
                    answer. -
                    > No can not see feel or hear an answer here either
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Then there are those that know the answer but deny because of
                    mental(social
                    > or cultural)issues. These are the people ruining our world. - You
                    were going
                    > somewhere with the first bit but then we got an opinion of what
                    others are
                    > doing not an answer
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > And now the obligatory question
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Which begs the question:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Who put them in charge? and why?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Who put them in charge, if I knew who then are then maybe I would
                    hazard a
                    > guess, if you mean left brainers then it seems that may have been
                    the
                    > voters, did you vote for them? Why because they were the best
                    salesmen of
                    > the day, falsely or artificially created maybe but still the better
                    salesmen
                    > of the day.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I would like to say I do enjoy this verbal game of chess and thank
                    you for
                    > joining in </wink>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Joe
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of
                    > madcowsc
                    > Sent: 01 October 2005 17:01
                    > To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "Do you recall what was revealed the day the music died?"
                    >
                    > ~Don McLeon~
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Joe,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I answered your question. People dodge answers for
                    >
                    > three reasons; ignorance, denial or social status.
                    >
                    > Some do answer questions and think critically about
                    >
                    > the world.(I didn't mention the latter).
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Did you not understand me?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Are you trying to "dodge" my answer?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It seems the "left-brainers" run the world with
                    >
                    > their mathematical logic. Measuring, building
                    >
                    > and profiting are three ways their mathematics
                    >
                    > have destroyed The Earth, made people live
                    >
                    > longer only to increase the population and thus
                    >
                    > the output of waste. The results of this thinking
                    >
                    > is not logical-even for a left brained person.
                    >
                    > Now that we are knee deep in chemical waste,
                    >
                    > how do the "left brainiacs" intend to solve
                    >
                    > this problem? Is NLP or programming a solution
                    >
                    > where we spread acceptance of the waste or
                    >
                    > denial there of? Feel free to change the subject
                    >
                    > if you don't like my answer.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Let's shift our focus on the right brained and
                    >
                    > "ambidextrous"(uses both sides) thinkers. We
                    >
                    > have existed for the same number of years as
                    >
                    > the left brainers. Our thinking, primarily
                    >
                    > used for culture, has been discounted as
                    >
                    > "illogical" and "emotional" and of no use to
                    >
                    > the "logical" left brained thinkers outside of
                    >
                    > this capacity. Brains or thought got us into
                    >
                    > the mess we face today. Thought can solve the
                    >
                    > problem. But as so many have a twisted view
                    >
                    > of right brained thinking, this will be hard
                    >
                    > to accomplish-like getting answers to your
                    >
                    > questions...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > There does exist a pattern in prose-not just
                    >
                    > bible code, that "reveal" the answers.
                    >
                    > But once again, this side of the brain which
                    >
                    > interprets cultural writings is discounted as
                    >
                    > being useless.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Wake-up. Listen. Remember.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Does it even concern you this "prose" has
                    >
                    > changed its' tones but still contains the same
                    >
                    > message? When Yahoo is back online, I will
                    >
                    > send you more from "madcowFM". So I leave
                    >
                    > you with the lyrics:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Song: Make A Move Lyrics By Incubus
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm at the end of my report again
                    >
                    > For those who won't do apathy
                    >
                    > You had the perfect opportunity
                    >
                    > But plead the fifth and walked away
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Oh
                    >
                    > Say something
                    >
                    > Make us proud, cast the first stone
                    >
                    > Say any--anything at all
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From every one thing we're ignorant of
                    >
                    > A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah
                    >
                    > You saw the apple hanging on the tree
                    >
                    > But missed the orchard in your gaze
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Oh
                    >
                    > Say something
                    >
                    > Make us proud, cast the first stone
                    >
                    > Say any - anything at all
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Ha
                    >
                    > I'm cautious of who I would call a friend
                    >
                    > Who you acquaint is who you are
                    >
                    > The darkest hours are when we choose a side
                    >
                    > So make your pick and take a fall
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Oh, oh
                    >
                    > Say something
                    >
                    > Heh
                    >
                    > Say anything at all
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    > (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                    >
                    > Make a move
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat
                    for
                    > information on how to become a better thinker.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwbc/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
                    information on how to become a better thinker.

                    Yahoo! Groups Links













                    Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
                    information on how to become a better thinker.

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • madcowsc
                    Actually, I was snowed-in when I first noticed Mozart s music kept time with falling snow. You be the judge if it s a manipulated stage or wonder. Anyway, I
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Actually, I was snowed-in when I first noticed Mozart's
                      music kept time with falling snow. You be the judge if
                      it's a manipulated stage or wonder. Anyway, I listened
                      to his music that winter(all of it)comparing it with
                      the rhythm of the falling snow. I found that Mozart's
                      rhythms matched falling snow no matter if it was gently
                      falling or snowing squals or even in between.

                      Did Mozart's musical rhythms come from nature or is
                      this merely a coincidence? What about the tones I and
                      others hear but are discounted as not understandable?
                      Where do these "tones and rhythms" begin and how does
                      one know music is a language? Why is it some people
                      can't percieve this, yet some can?

                      Maybe you can see and hear what I mean this winter
                      when it snows!

                      Sid
                    • Joe
                      OK I am now feeling rather envious. We don t get what you would call snow at all in comparison. I think I would be on the side of wonder with the scene as you
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK I am now feeling rather envious. We don't get what you would call snow at
                        all in comparison. I think I would be on the side of wonder with the scene
                        as you set it, thanks for the description. I would describe rhythms being
                        in harmony as a coincidence, just the same as when someone says about a red
                        car you seem to see a lot many red cards, I am still feeling a little bit
                        jealous when I think of you sitting watching snow.

                        What about the tones I and others hear but are discounted as not
                        understandable?

                        Sid what tones are you referring to?

                        Where do these "tones and rhythms" begin and how does one know music is a
                        language? I am unsure as to the tones you are referring to but hope I can
                        understand. I must be one of those who can't, again you leave me green with
                        envy

                        Joe



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        madcowsc
                        Sent: 02 October 2005 15:55
                        To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question

                        Actually, I was snowed-in when I first noticed Mozart's
                        music kept time with falling snow. You be the judge if
                        it's a manipulated stage or wonder. Anyway, I listened
                        to his music that winter(all of it)comparing it with
                        the rhythm of the falling snow. I found that Mozart's
                        rhythms matched falling snow no matter if it was gently
                        falling or snowing squals or even in between.

                        Did Mozart's musical rhythms come from nature or is
                        this merely a coincidence? What about the tones I and
                        others hear but are discounted as not understandable?
                        Where do these "tones and rhythms" begin and how does
                        one know music is a language? Why is it some people
                        can't percieve this, yet some can?

                        Maybe you can see and hear what I mean this winter
                        when it snows!

                        Sid







                        Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
                        information on how to become a better thinker.

                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • madcowsc
                        Envy? Snow and music is not something unattainable... This is the only room other than Valery Kourinski s most excellent forum which I participate. The
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Envy? Snow and music is not something unattainable...

                          This is the only room other than Valery Kourinski's
                          most excellent forum which I participate. The metaphor
                          "world wide brain club" became a forum to me for
                          understanding myself and the "world". There is so
                          much more to us than we realise and it is connected
                          to nature. Until recently, I had a very hard time
                          communicating this to other people in a rational
                          left brained way.

                          Make A Move By Incubus (turnsoundup)

                          http://www.geocities.com/madcowsc/radio5.swf

                          I can (God willing!) program a radio station
                          with more than three genres that draw parralells
                          to this picture. Coincidence?

                          Sid

                          Make A Move Lyrics:

                          Artist: Incubus Lyrics
                          Song: Make A Move Lyrics

                          I'm at the end of my report again
                          For those who won't do apathy
                          You had the perfect opportunity
                          But plead the fifth and walked away

                          Oh
                          Say something
                          Make us proud, cast the first stone
                          Say any--anything at all

                          Make a move
                          Make a move

                          From every one thing we're ignorant of
                          A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah
                          You saw the apple hanging on the tree
                          But missed the orchard in your gaze

                          Oh
                          Say something
                          Make us proud, cast the first stone
                          Say any - anything at all

                          Make a move
                          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                          Make a move

                          Ha
                          I'm cautious of who I would call a friend
                          Who you acquaint is who you are
                          The darkest hours are when we choose a side
                          So make your pick and take a fall

                          Oh, oh
                          Say something
                          Heh
                          Say anything at all

                          Make a move
                          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                          Make a move
                          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                          Make a move
                          (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                          Make a move
                        • Joe
                          I agree it is not unattainable, it was just the moment you described which made me green. At that moment it was so idyllic and left me with a picture which I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I agree it is not unattainable, it was just the moment you described which
                            made me green. At that moment it was so idyllic and left me with a picture
                            which I have carried around all day, for that I thank you.

                            Joe

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: wwbc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wwbc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            madcowsc
                            Sent: 02 October 2005 20:43
                            To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [wwbc] Re: A question

                            Envy? Snow and music is not something unattainable...

                            This is the only room other than Valery Kourinski's
                            most excellent forum which I participate. The metaphor
                            "world wide brain club" became a forum to me for
                            understanding myself and the "world". There is so
                            much more to us than we realise and it is connected
                            to nature. Until recently, I had a very hard time
                            communicating this to other people in a rational
                            left brained way.

                            Make A Move By Incubus (turnsoundup)

                            http://www.geocities.com/madcowsc/radio5.swf

                            I can (God willing!) program a radio station
                            with more than three genres that draw parralells
                            to this picture. Coincidence?

                            Sid

                            Make A Move Lyrics:

                            Artist: Incubus Lyrics
                            Song: Make A Move Lyrics

                            I'm at the end of my report again
                            For those who won't do apathy
                            You had the perfect opportunity
                            But plead the fifth and walked away

                            Oh
                            Say something
                            Make us proud, cast the first stone
                            Say any--anything at all

                            Make a move
                            Make a move

                            From every one thing we're ignorant of
                            A thousand more things beat the maze, yeah
                            You saw the apple hanging on the tree
                            But missed the orchard in your gaze

                            Oh
                            Say something
                            Make us proud, cast the first stone
                            Say any - anything at all

                            Make a move
                            (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                            Make a move

                            Ha
                            I'm cautious of who I would call a friend
                            Who you acquaint is who you are
                            The darkest hours are when we choose a side
                            So make your pick and take a fall

                            Oh, oh
                            Say something
                            Heh
                            Say anything at all

                            Make a move
                            (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                            Make a move
                            (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                            Make a move
                            (Hands on the eyes are the engines of demise)
                            Make a move







                            Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for
                            information on how to become a better thinker.

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • madcowsc
                            The idyllic is connected to nature... Thanks for sharing this moment with me. Now I leave you with an oldie but goodie:
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 2, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              The idyllic is connected to nature...

                              Thanks for sharing this "moment" with me.

                              Now I leave you with an oldie but goodie:

                              http://us.share.geocities.com/madcowsc/radio6.swf

                              Sid
                            • Martin Naylor
                              so have you thought, or have you listned to music writen by dealers of minds, but i will ask you a question, where do words and thought s come from,. and if
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                so have you thought, or have you listned to music writen by dealers of minds,
                                but i will ask you a question, where do words and thought's come from,. and if you or anybody uses them, do they actualy describe the situation,
                                and this is where
                                i say thought is limited,
                                now i ask you, do you understand that though is limited
                                or do you want to
                                keep on keeping on



                                madcowsc <madcowsc@...> wrote:
                                The idyllic is connected to nature...

                                Thanks for sharing this "moment" with me.

                                Now I leave you with an oldie but goodie:

                                http://us.share.geocities.com/madcowsc/radio6.swf

                                Sid







                                Also see the collabarative Mentat Wiki at http://ludism.org/mentat for information on how to become a better thinker.




                                SPONSORED LINKS
                                Science kits Science education Online social science degree Science kit for kid Mind map Social science course

                                ---------------------------------
                                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                                Visit your group "wwbc" on the web.

                                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                wwbc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                                ---------------------------------




                                ---------------------------------
                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.