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Re: Mr J Strong

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  • lizandrews333
    George Wade and Jon Upton You should be ashamed of yourselves! The only conclusion this unidentified lurker can come to is that Buzan Licenced Instructors
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 30, 2003
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      George Wade and Jon Upton

      You should be ashamed of yourselves! The only conclusion this
      unidentified "lurker" can come to is that Buzan Licenced Instructors
      will not tolerate questions concerning their methods.

      You side-step the most relevant questions about learning to learn,
      and team up to push out and junk-email a valuable (albeit direct)
      member. The questions shared were on target, polite to non-BLIs, and
      helpful to learners. You want to censor them!

      Whether you are aware of it or not, you do consistently sell on this
      group. I have been doing some checking---Your books are misleading!
      You show no respect!

      I leave this Buzan convention disappointed
      Elizabeth Andrews



      Learning to learn
      Australia






      --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, GeorgeWade <georgewade1@m...> wrote:
      > Jon,
      >
      > I feel sorry for Jay - and feel that he is bright. He probably has
      got
      > something brilliant to share... but nobody in the world will
      benefit
      > from it till he learns to be respectful of any group he joins and
      then
      > of himself.
      >
      > Back to enjoying the Mnemonists, that I am just beginning to
      understand.
      >
      > George
      >
      > On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 07:38 AM, Jon Upton wrote:
      >
      > > Mr Strong
      > >
      > > Again you prove yourself to be a prat
      > >
      > > Play with your own middle wicket as you seem to enjoy it
      > >
      > > I have alongside George awarded you the 'go to Junk E-mail card'
      > >
      > > I trust that at some stage in the near future our good and kind
      > > moderator
      > > will relieve the wwbc community of your endless drivel
      > >
      > > good bye
      > >
      > > Jon
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rob Carder
      George et al, As I stated in my earlier (and only) mail re: J Strong, he is attention seeking and controversy provoking. These people are best dealt with by
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2003
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        George et al,

        As I stated in my earlier (and only) mail re: J Strong, he is attention seeking and controversy provoking. These people are best dealt with by being ignored. Please let this be the last post on this forum that is wasted on him.

        Rob

        GeorgeWade <georgewade1@...> wrote:
        Jon,

        I feel sorry for Jay - and feel that he is bright. He probably has got
        something brilliant to share... but nobody in the world will benefit
        from it till he learns to be respectful of any group he joins and then
        of himself.

        Back to enjoying the Mnemonists, that I am just beginning to understand.

        George

        On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 07:38 AM, Jon Upton wrote:

        > Mr Strong
        >
        > Again you prove yourself to be a prat
        >
        > Play with your own middle wicket as you seem to enjoy it
        >
        > I have alongside George awarded you the 'go to Junk E-mail card'
        >
        > I trust that at some stage in the near future our good and kind
        > moderator
        > will relieve the wwbc community of your endless drivel
        >
        > good bye
        >
        > Jon

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Jon Upton
        Dear Elizabeth I think you perhaps should review Mr Strongs postings Why should we put up with personal attacks from an individual Was he valueable? when asked
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Dear Elizabeth

          I think you perhaps should review Mr Strongs postings

          Why should we put up with personal attacks from an individual

          Was he valueable? when asked to substantiate or explain his claims he just
          wrote rubbish back

          Of course we sell on this group - we believe, we are passionate - we all
          sell ourselves and our beliefs everyday of our lives

          If you look back over the past postings in the archive you will find that
          most of us including myself and George will do anything we can to help
          people

          We learnt many years ago that 'givers gain'

          We have the right to personal censorship I only suggested the moderator
          remove Mr Strong when his postings became personal and offensive

          As I stated in my past posting to Mr Strong I advise anybody to take the
          parts of Tony's work they find useful and mould them to fit their needs - I
          don't agree with everything he (Tony) says

          You are falling into the same category as Mr Strong you make a wild
          statement that Mr Buzan's books are misleading but you do not say in what
          way or how you can substantiate your claim

          With regard to respect I respect everybodys right to hold an opinion I just
          ask that they to respect my right to challenge that opinion

          If you are interested in Mind Mapping and don't want to believe the work of
          Tony may I suggest you read the book Mapwise by Oliver Caviglioli and Ian
          Harris isbn 1-85539-059-0 www.networkpress.co.uk

          Please don't leave the group on my account I honestly believe that there is
          much to gain from being a member of the wwbc

          Kind regards on a very wet UK morning

          Jon Upton



          _____

          From: lizandrews333 [mailto:LizAndrews333@...]
          Sent: 01 December 2003 03:13
          To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [wwbc] Re: Mr J Strong


          George Wade and Jon Upton

          You should be ashamed of yourselves! The only conclusion this
          unidentified "lurker" can come to is that Buzan Licenced Instructors
          will not tolerate questions concerning their methods.

          You side-step the most relevant questions about learning to learn,
          and team up to push out and junk-email a valuable (albeit direct)
          member. The questions shared were on target, polite to non-BLIs, and
          helpful to learners. You want to censor them!

          Whether you are aware of it or not, you do consistently sell on this
          group. I have been doing some checking---Your books are misleading!
          You show no respect!

          I leave this Buzan convention disappointed
          Elizabeth Andrews



          Learning to learn
          Australia






          --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, GeorgeWade <georgewade1@m...> wrote:
          > Jon,
          >
          > I feel sorry for Jay - and feel that he is bright. He probably has
          got
          > something brilliant to share... but nobody in the world will
          benefit
          > from it till he learns to be respectful of any group he joins and
          then
          > of himself.
          >
          > Back to enjoying the Mnemonists, that I am just beginning to
          understand.
          >
          > George
          >
          > On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 07:38 AM, Jon Upton wrote:
          >
          > > Mr Strong
          > >
          > > Again you prove yourself to be a prat
          > >
          > > Play with your own middle wicket as you seem to enjoy it
          > >
          > > I have alongside George awarded you the 'go to Junk E-mail card'
          > >
          > > I trust that at some stage in the near future our good and kind
          > > moderator
          > > will relieve the wwbc community of your endless drivel
          > >
          > > good bye
          > >
          > > Jon
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • cmartin336@aol.com
          In einer eMail vom 30.11.03 15:22:45 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt ... Jay: When confronted with the 1% brain useage fact , for example, one can go
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2003
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            In einer eMail vom 30.11.03 15:22:45 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
            jstrong714@...:


            > When confronted with the 1% brain useage "fact", for example, one can
            > go "wow! so I should buy this book then!" or more sensibly "Pull the
            > middle one mate, you think I'm dumb or what!".

            Jay:

            "When confronted with the 1% brain useage "fact", for example, one can
            go "wow! so I should buy this book then!" or more sensibly "Pull the
            middle one mate, you think I'm dumb or what!".

            ############

            Jay,

            I oftenly have read, that we use only 10% of our potential brain power and
            that this should have been told by Einstein.

            Up to now I never could find out, if Einstein has made such a remark. If he
            should have done it, then it was probably only a humorous remark and a crude
            estimate in the sense of "order of magnitude".

            I doubt, that anybody was able up to now to make a reliable investigation,
            how powerful our brain really is.

            But we can make an estimate ourselves, what could be possible:

            The main problem perhaps is not the training of our brain, but just the time
            we have available to train it.

            I we live 100 year and we spend each day 10 hours only for learning, then we
            would have available 100*365*10 hours for learning.

            That are 365 000 hours

            Lets assume, that we use the best methods and even are able to memorise each
            page of text, which we read and that we can master 10 pager of texts, full of
            information and with minimal redundance, then we can memorise:

            3 650 000 pages of text.

            That would be 3 650 books, each 1000 pages ( may study books have about
            1000 pages ).

            Or 100 encyclopedias.

            Does that estimate really give us a maximal limit for the capacity of our
            brain ?

            Not really, because with it we totally neglected, that we also have to learn
            to walk, to speak, to develop social abilities etc.

            And it could be, that we need very much of our brain capacity, just to learn
            these very important abilities.

            I assume, that this is the case. During our evolution learning in the sence
            of studying a topic has been done only for some thousand years and that
            means, that the development of our brain has been driven by other causes.

            My personal consequence is, just to assume, that I have much more potential
            brain capacity for learning, which ever I will have time in my life to use.
            If I use only 10% or 1% is irrelevant for me, if I have not time to use more.

            regards
            Claus




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • cmartin336@aol.com
            In einer eMail vom 01.12.03 03:25:33 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt ... George, this demonstrates a bit the value of the 6 hats method of de Bono. You
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2003
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              In einer eMail vom 01.12.03 03:25:33 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
              georgewade1@...:


              > Jon,
              >
              > I feel sorry for Jay - and feel that he is bright. He probably has got
              > something brilliant to share... but nobody in the world will benefit
              > from it till he learns to be respectful of any group he joins and then
              > of himself.
              >
              > Back to enjoying the Mnemonists, that I am just beginning to understand.
              >
              > George
              >
              George,

              this demonstrates a bit the value of the 6 hats method of de Bono.
              You always find people, who are focused too much onto one way of thinking.
              Some people are too critical or cynical, others are too optimistic etc.
              It is difficutly to develop a harmonized personality and I assume, that many
              ingredients are needed:
              - good parents and family life
              - excellent teachers
              - a wide variety of possibilities to learn and experience
              - being interested in many different topics like: fine arts, music,
              literature, natural sciences, hand craft etc.

              My experience is, that people, who are focused only onto one subject oftenly
              develop a disturbed personality. You can find that with the mathematician
              Gödel for instance and many of other famous people, but of course also with the
              normal average people.

              Therefore one should avoid to focus only on one subject, but take enough
              time also for other activities.

              The pity is, that those people, who would benefit a lot from it, are not
              willing to give it a try.

              regards

              Claus


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nicholas Montpetit
              ... Instructors ... and ... Hi Elizabeth, I couldn t agree more with your assessment of the treatment of Jay in this group. Up to this point I ve also been a
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2003
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                --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, "lizandrews333" <LizAndrews333@h...>
                wrote:
                > George Wade and Jon Upton
                >
                > You should be ashamed of yourselves! The only conclusion this
                > unidentified "lurker" can come to is that Buzan Licenced
                Instructors
                > will not tolerate questions concerning their methods.
                >
                > You side-step the most relevant questions about learning to learn,
                > and team up to push out and junk-email a valuable (albeit direct)
                > member. The questions shared were on target, polite to non-BLIs,
                and
                > helpful to learners. You want to censor them!

                Hi Elizabeth,

                I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the treatment of Jay in
                this group. Up to this point I've also been a lurker, but it's time
                for me to risk attack and state that Jay's questions -- if actually
                answered -- would be very useful to somebody who is trying to learn
                more about the techniques covered in this group.

                Time for me to leave,

                -Nick
              • GeorgeWade
                ... This is one of the more tolerant groups on the net. Many other moderators would have terminated Jay after the 2nd attack. Ian is to be commended for his
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 07:13 PM, lizandrews333 wrote:

                  > George Wade and Jon Upton
                  >
                  > You should be ashamed of yourselves!  The only conclusion this
                  > unidentified "lurker" can come to is that Buzan Licenced Instructors
                  > will not tolerate questions concerning their methods.

                  This is one of the more tolerant groups on the net. Many other
                  moderators would have
                  'terminated' Jay after the 2nd attack. Ian is to be commended for his
                  patience.

                  > You side-step the most relevant questions about learning to learn,
                  > and team up to push out and junk-email a valuable (albeit direct)
                  > member.  The questions shared were on target, polite to non-BLIs, and
                  > helpful to learners.  You want to censor them!

                  I did not want to censor questions: that would be up to the moderator.
                  I wanted to let
                  Jay know that I'd not listen to his attacks. We did start by answering
                  Jay's questions, too.

                  None of the Buzan licensed instructors on the WWBC even sign themselves
                  "BLI" in
                  postings. You begin to make me ashamed of my modesty!

                  >  Whether you are aware of it or not, you do consistently sell on this
                  > group.  I have been doing some checking---Your books are misleading! 
                  > You show no respect!

                  There are some questions worth exploring about why some people have
                  been incredibly
                  successful and some not at all with Buzan Trek. We could not explore
                  that while Jay was
                  being so abusive.

                  About 60% of the people in the middle get good average results from
                  Buzan Trek. What
                  would you say, Linda? Good average or very good average results?

                  I have never been able to make much use of Edward de Bono's very
                  powerful thinking
                  tools. I know why and have just started to Mind Map them. I have never
                  attacked people
                  or ideas on de Bono's conferences. That is not the way to learn
                  anything.

                  Attacks on de Bono's 'Creative Team' would only last for ten seconds
                  after the moderators
                  noticed them. That is another way of handling email groups.

                  > I leave this Buzan convention disappointed

                  We can't satisfy everbody, Elizabeth, but this group does try hard.

                  George
                  signing 'Buzan licensed instructor' for once...


                  > Elizabeth Andrews
                  > Learning to learn
                  > Australia


                  > --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, GeorgeWade <georgewade1@m...> wrote:
                  > > Jon,
                  > >
                  > > I feel sorry for Jay - and feel that he is bright. He probably has
                  > got
                  > > something brilliant to share...  but nobody in the world will
                  > benefit
                  > > from it till he learns to be respectful of any group he joins and
                  > then
                  > > of himself.
                  > >
                  > > Back to enjoying the Mnemonists, that I am just beginning to
                  > understand.
                  > >
                  > > George

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • cmartin336@aol.com
                  In einer eMail vom 02.12.03 14:58:16 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt ... Hi Unmut, it looks like, that we all agree, that language learning needs time
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 2, 2003
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                    In einer eMail vom 02.12.03 14:58:16 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
                    lacivert@...:


                    > I assume that
                    > some people can achieve even better results, if this
                    > is their primary goal, but I do not really think you
                    > can reach any level better than 3 in less than 3 or 4
                    > months even with scrupulous work (very rare exceptions
                    > do not count).
                    >

                    Hi Unmut,

                    it looks like, that we all agree, that language learning needs time and that
                    means a motivated person probably 1 or 2 years to reach level 3 or 4.

                    Perhaps we should send in the future some comments to the companies, which
                    make such unrealistic promises.

                    regards
                    Claus


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eric Dawson
                    I miss Jay, please don t leave Nick. Eric ... From: Nicholas Montpetit To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:45 AM Subject: [wwbc] Re: Mr
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 4, 2003
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                      I miss Jay, please don't leave Nick.

                      Eric
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Nicholas Montpetit
                      To: wwbc@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:45 AM
                      Subject: [wwbc] Re: Mr J Strong


                      --- In wwbc@yahoogroups.com, "lizandrews333" <LizAndrews333@h...>
                      wrote:
                      > George Wade and Jon Upton
                      >
                      > You should be ashamed of yourselves! The only conclusion this
                      > unidentified "lurker" can come to is that Buzan Licenced
                      Instructors
                      > will not tolerate questions concerning their methods.
                      >
                      > You side-step the most relevant questions about learning to learn,
                      > and team up to push out and junk-email a valuable (albeit direct)
                      > member. The questions shared were on target, polite to non-BLIs,
                      and
                      > helpful to learners. You want to censor them!

                      Hi Elizabeth,

                      I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the treatment of Jay in
                      this group. Up to this point I've also been a lurker, but it's time
                      for me to risk attack and state that Jay's questions -- if actually
                      answered -- would be very useful to somebody who is trying to learn
                      more about the techniques covered in this group.

                      Time for me to leave,

                      -Nick


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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