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Polite Discussion on Zionism: Is it Possible?

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  • World View
    The Zionist philosophizes that the Palestinian is not a human (Israel was a land without a people). The Anti-Zionist argues that the Palestinian is a human
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 25, 2007
      The Zionist philosophizes that the Palestinian is not a human
      (Israel was a land without a people). The Anti-Zionist argues that
      the Palestinian is a human being. So what is the moderate viewpoint?
      The Palestinian is a quasi-human? That seems to be the American
      Progressive Jewish position. Amazing isn't it?

      Polite Discussion on Zionism: Is it Possible?
      Karin Friedemann - ummyakoub @ yahoo.com
      April 25, 2007
      World View News Service

      I found http://www.realisticdove.org/ very interesting because it is
      the first time I have come across a progressive Jew so honest about
      his racism. Usually when confronted, these confused souls just get
      indignant and refuse to speak to you for a few months. I always
      wondered how a person could think that Israel has a "right"
      to "security" and shrug off this amazing assumption with the
      accusation that anyone who has questions about your definitions is
      accusing you of being an evil murderer. Why would any sane person
      think that he has the right to live unharrassed on someone else's
      stolen property? Even the cute kids waving Israeli flags are
      participating in a criminally insane political ideology.

      Progressive Jews want to make the bottom line "Jews are nice
      people." But that is not the bottom line. As Hillel mentioned, the
      bottom line is that you don't do to others what you don't want
      others to do to you. What would we expect if our neighbor, with or
      without warning, bulldozed our house?

      First, we would call the police. If the man with the bulldozer
      failed to stop bulldozing the house, the police officer would have
      the duty to disable the vehicle and he might even shoot him. I'm
      talking about American law. The bulldozer man would be stopped. He
      would be considered a criminal. He would be put on trial. He would
      go to prison. If he had killed people in the process of bulldozing
      the house, he might even be executed. The owner of the house that
      was bulldozed would be entitled to damages plus extra for pain and
      suffering. The law requires that his property be restored to the
      original state that it was in. That includes replanting the trees
      and fixing the pavement around the house.

      The emotional defensiveness of Jews is actually quite amusing, where
      they want to argue that the bulldozer man was not evil, he was not a
      murderer. The family that moved into the stolen property are just
      innocent idealists. They may be misguided, or mistaken, but for some
      reason Jews want to argue that they are not evil. What they are
      really saying is that they don't want Jews to be held legally
      accountable for their actions. They want to enjoy the privilege of
      being "protected" from the laws that apply to other people.

      A law does not cover the "evilness" of a criminal. It covers actions
      and consequences.

      If international law were followed, the Israeli "government' would
      never have kicked out any Palestinians. The entire existence of
      Israel is based on the condition made by the UN that Palestinians
      would remain in their homes and receive equal citizenship in the new
      nation state. That condition was not followed. Therefore, there is
      no legal basis for any assumption that Israel has a right to exist,
      according to the UN. In fact, Israel does not really exist. It is a
      figment of imagination, the defensive mechanism of the neurotic
      Jewish collective consciousness. I agree that we need to stop
      arguing about isms but the next step is to follow the laws that
      already exist to solve the problems. Don't wait for the world
      community to force Israel to do it. Why don't we, as Jews, just do
      it? Why are progressive Jews wasting their time feeling emotionally
      threatened by a one state solution? The real problem is that we are
      feeling emotionally threatened by any solution. Because a solution
      means that a lot of Jews need to be prosecuted.

      The refugees need to be given back their property with extra for
      damages. Even if they fled their homes because Arab leaders told
      them to get out of the fighting zone in 1948, they have the legal
      right to return to their homes as soon as the fighting stops. Small
      wonder why Israel continues to attack people day after day.

      The refugees need to be given full civil rights. Full water rights,
      full road rights, and the full right to criminally prosecute. Every
      Jewish family in America that has any property in the Holy Land
      needs to be prosecuted as part of an organized criminal network.
      Especially if both the Palestinian and the Jewish persons are
      American citizens. For example one friend of mine, after her family
      was forced off their land by gunpoint, New York Jews bought the
      land, bulldozed everything, and planted orange trees. She knows
      where they live. She knows their names. Anyone who buys or sells
      stolen property is a criminal. They need to be prosecuted. Any Jew
      who owns stolen property in the Holy Land should have his property
      seized including their US assets and Progressive Jews should insist
      on it instead of doing these mental "I'm not evil" gymnastics.

      The Jews need to give back what they stole. I am not sure why that
      is so confusing to people. There needs to be a world tribunal like
      the Nuremburg trials to determine what was done and who was
      responsible, and to put an end to this nonsense. But failing that,
      the US legal system could solve the problem within a year if they
      just prosecuted this obnoxious real estate mafia. Why are
      Progressive Jews not lobbying for criminal penalties on Jews who
      invest in property that was cleared of its original owners by force
      in the Holy Land? There is enough room in all of Bush's new prisons
      for all these shady real estate agents. This is a simple matter of
      holding people legally accountable for the harm they cause others.

      It is exactly the same issue with dispute over the Roxbury Mosque.
      Some shady white Jewish real estate dealers were furious that the
      black community benefited from this piece of land next to the subway
      station that they wanted to develop, so now they are engaging in
      extra-legal trickery and character assassination to try to get that
      piece of real estate away from the people who own it.

      Once the Palestinians get their land back and all the Zionist
      organizations' assets are confiscated to repair all the damage they
      have done, then we can talk about whether or not "the Jewish People"
      have the right to "self-determination" in the form of an
      ethnocentric nation state.

      I learned when I was a kid that the way to get self-determination -
      ie, the ability to do what you want when you want how you want - is
      to behave yourself. The Jews are not behaving themselves, and there
      is nothing okay about it. When a progressive Jew starts
      whining, "You think I'm evil!!" he or she breaks the heart of the
      human being who is trying to have peace with this person. It ends
      all rational discussion. It ends all hope for peace.

      Sometimes Palestinians find it easier to deal with right wing
      Zionists than left wing because at least they are honest. A
      Palestinian can say to a right wing Jew, "You stole my property."
      The right wing Jew will say, "Yeah, and what are you going to do
      about it? My religion says I can steal your property." Then the
      Muslim can with dignity say, "Well my religion says that God curses
      the man who puts another man out of his home, and that I have the
      right to fight you." So that actually can be done in the context of
      a polite dialogue. A peace plan is even potentially possible.
      Because then the Jew can say, "Well, I don't want you to kill me and
      I can see why you would think that I deserved it, because if you did
      the same thing to me I would certainly kill you. So let's make a
      deal. I'll let you live in the garage." This is still insulting
      behavior, but it's in the process of being made less sadistic.

      On the other hand, if a Palestinian says to a progressive Jew, "You
      stole my property!" The progressive Jew will usually shut down
      entirely. I have seen a fifty year old man start crying and
      insisting he's not evil. This is the behavior of someone who is
      guilty as sin. Like when you accuse your husband of adultery and he
      starts guilt-tripping you about how you don't believe in him
      (hypothetical but common scenario).

      The other reaction is to get maliciously angry and start doing
      character assassination via gossip so that none of the other
      progressive Jews will greet that person who brought up the "touchy"
      subject. But they will be told that this person is an "enemy of
      peace" - so that it will be politically correct to shun them the
      same way that we avoid eye contact with skinheads and Bible
      thumpers. Progressive Jews are the most amazingly idealistic people
      on the planet. They want to be able to continue to sit on someone
      else's stolen property (or at least vacation on it) and not only
      they think they have a "right" to travel around unharmed, ride the
      buses, shop and eat pizza while the people they made homeless have
      no water or food - but they want their victims to LIKE them. The
      Jews are the only conquerors in the history of the planet that
      expected the conquered people to LIKE them! If they don't like us,
      we feel offended and outraged. And what Jews consider as "liking
      behavior" is never mentioning the property they stole.

      It's amazing. I've discussed some of this with Avigail Abarbanel, an
      ex-Israeli psychiatrist in Australia. She views Zionism as a mental
      illness that can be treated. But Zionism is just a symptom of a
      deeper problem, the delusional belief that you have "rights" which
      do not exist. Like a kid thinking he has the right to hit his
      sister. It's a failure to apply the Golden Rule to one's personal
      sense of responsibility in certain situations. The inner conflict
      that arises from these "situational ethics" certainly does create a
      clinically diagnosable mental inability to process certain types of
      information that trigger the neurotic or sometimes even psychotic
      defensive reaction.

      Unfortunately, when it comes to Israel, Jews are defensive in the
      sense that they cannot process the type of information that is
      necessary to create peaceful behaviors. For example, if a Jew and
      Palestinian live next door to each other in New Jersey, the Jew
      being the "owner" of a condo built on the Palestinian person's
      property, don't you think the Jew should offer to give it back, if
      he expects the other's friendship? If the Palestinian, as is normal,
      invites the Jew over for tea and politely doesn't bring up the
      subject, does the Jew feel that this means it's OK what he did? That
      he can forgive himself? That is what Jews want after all. We want to
      be forgiven without apology for everything we have done AND
      everything we are about to do. Is this a rational approach to peace?
      Is it working?



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