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WURFL J2ME Application - J2ME capability collection

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  • Cato Gleditsch
    We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now. We are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet our product s
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 21, 2008
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      We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now. We
      are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet our
      product's requirements.

      While our DB is based on WURFL, we currently do a lot of manual
      maintenance. This work is highly needed to meet the challenges of
      Device Fragmentation. - Nevertheless, this is both time consuming and
      expensive work.

      For this reason, we would like to see more happening at the level of
      J2ME developers working together on this common issue. In order to
      put our money where our mouth is, we will invest resources and share
      the data collected through our effort so far, with the rest of the
      community. We hope that this will bring others to follow suit and get
      everyone to benefit.

      There are two main parts behind our initiative:
      - Defining (or better, refining) the list of J2ME capabilities
      currently in WURFL
      - Creating a Midlet which people can download on their phones, to
      automatically collect J2ME data and save them in a centralised
      repository, for insertion into WURFL.

      Of course, the model will be the usual WURFL one: the data will be
      open and available to everyone free of charge and intellectual
      property claims.

      The model we envision is one where the WURFL J2ME developer community
      will do its part by downloading the midlet and providing information
      for devices that are relevant in their respective regions.

      If you are interested in supporting the initiative, please comment on
      the list of capabilities we provide, preferably over the next 7 days.
      Likewise, feel free to comment or ask any question you may have.
      After collecting the requirements, we will develop and deploy the
      application for everyone in the community to use.

      Here is the list of capabilities (we have kept the existing
      capabilities already in WURFL, edited some of them):

      brand
      device_name
      user_agent
      j2me_cldc_1_0 (JSR-30)
      j2me_cldc_1_1 (JSR-139)
      j2me_midp_1_0 (JSR-37)
      j2me_midp_2_0 (JSR-118)
      doja_1_0
      doja_1_5
      doja_2_0
      doja_2_1
      doja_2_2
      doja_3_0
      doja_3_5
      doja_4_0
      j2me_jtwi (JSR-185)
      j2me_mmapi_1_0 (JSR-135)
      j2me_mmapi_1_1 (JSR-135)
      j2me_wmapi_1_0 (JSR-30)
      j2me_wmapi_1_1 (JSR-120)
      j2me_wmapi_2_0 (JSR-205)
      j2me_btapi (JSR-82)
      j2me_3dapi (JSR-184)
      j2me_loctapi (JSR-179)
      j2me_nokia_ui
      j2me_motorola_lwt
      j2me_siemens_color_game
      j2me_siemens_extension
      j2me_heap_size
      j2me_max_jar_size
      j2me_rms_max_record_store
      j2me_rms_max_record_number
      j2me_rms_max_record_size
      j2me_screen_width
      j2me_screen_height
      j2me_canvas_width
      j2me_canvas_height
      j2me_canvas_size
      j2me_nokia_canvas_height
      j2me_nokia_canvas_width
      j2me_nokia_canvas_size
      j2me_bits_per_pixel
      j2me_audio_capture_enabled
      j2me_video_capture_enabled
      j2me_photo_capture_enabled
      j2me_capture_image_formats
      j2me_http
      j2me_https
      j2me_socket
      j2me_udp
      j2me_serial
      j2me_gif
      j2me_gif89a
      j2me_jpg
      j2me_png
      j2me_bmp
      j2me_bmp3
      j2me_wbmp
      j2me_midi
      j2me_wav
      j2me_amr
      j2me_mp3
      j2me_mp4
      j2me_imelody
      j2me_rmf
      j2me_au
      j2me_aac
      j2me_realaudio
      j2me_xmf
      j2me_wma
      j2me_3gpp
      j2me_h263
      j2me_svgt
      j2me_mpeg4
      j2me_realvideo
      j2me_real8
      j2me_realmedia
      j2me_left_softkey_code
      j2me_right_softkey_code
      j2me_middle_softkey_code
      j2me_select_key_code
      j2me_return_key_code
      j2me_clear_key_code
      j2me_datefield_no_accepts_null_date
      j2me_datefield_broken
      j2me_root_certificate
      has_qwerty_keyboard
      platform (SE JP7, Nokia Series40, Series 60, etc.)
      known_issues



      Feel free to edit and suggest additional capabilities.

      Thanks everyone!

      Cato
      mBricks
    • Luca Passani
      Thank you, Cato. People, I just want to point out that I have been in contact with Cato and mBricks over the past few weeks. mBricks fully believe in the open
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 21, 2008
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        Thank you, Cato.

        People, I just want to point out that I have been in contact with Cato
        and mBricks over the past few weeks.

        mBricks fully believe in the open model of WURFL and they are going to
        inject some serious resources into this initiative. For this reason, I
        endorse and support their work, and I invite you all to do the same.

        Please set aside some of your precious time to analyze their proposed
        list of capabilities and provide your comments.
        Are there capabilities that can be derived from existing ones? are there
        more capabilities that should be added?

        This is the best chance in a long time to make WURFL a solid resource
        for all J2ME developers around the planet.

        Questions and comments are welcome.

        Thank you

        Luca

        Cato Gleditsch wrote:
        > We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now. We
        > are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet our
        > product's requirements.
        >
        > While our DB is based on WURFL, we currently do a lot of manual
        > maintenance. This work is highly needed to meet the challenges of
        > Device Fragmentation. - Nevertheless, this is both time consuming and
        > expensive work.
        >
        > For this reason, we would like to see more happening at the level of
        > J2ME developers working together on this common issue. In order to
        > put our money where our mouth is, we will invest resources and share
        > the data collected through our effort so far, with the rest of the
        > community. We hope that this will bring others to follow suit and get
        > everyone to benefit.
        >
        > There are two main parts behind our initiative:
        > - Defining (or better, refining) the list of J2ME capabilities
        > currently in WURFL
        > - Creating a Midlet which people can download on their phones, to
        > automatically collect J2ME data and save them in a centralised
        > repository, for insertion into WURFL.
        >
        > Of course, the model will be the usual WURFL one: the data will be
        > open and available to everyone free of charge and intellectual
        > property claims.
        >
        > The model we envision is one where the WURFL J2ME developer community
        > will do its part by downloading the midlet and providing information
        > for devices that are relevant in their respective regions.
        >
        > If you are interested in supporting the initiative, please comment on
        > the list of capabilities we provide, preferably over the next 7 days.
        > Likewise, feel free to comment or ask any question you may have.
        > After collecting the requirements, we will develop and deploy the
        > application for everyone in the community to use.
        >
        > Here is the list of capabilities (we have kept the existing
        > capabilities already in WURFL, edited some of them):
        >
        > brand
        > device_name
        > user_agent
        > j2me_cldc_1_0 (JSR-30)
        > j2me_cldc_1_1 (JSR-139)
        > j2me_midp_1_0 (JSR-37)
        > j2me_midp_2_0 (JSR-118)
        > doja_1_0
        > doja_1_5
        > doja_2_0
        > doja_2_1
        > doja_2_2
        > doja_3_0
        > doja_3_5
        > doja_4_0
        > j2me_jtwi (JSR-185)
        > j2me_mmapi_1_0 (JSR-135)
        > j2me_mmapi_1_1 (JSR-135)
        > j2me_wmapi_1_0 (JSR-30)
        > j2me_wmapi_1_1 (JSR-120)
        > j2me_wmapi_2_0 (JSR-205)
        > j2me_btapi (JSR-82)
        > j2me_3dapi (JSR-184)
        > j2me_loctapi (JSR-179)
        > j2me_nokia_ui
        > j2me_motorola_lwt
        > j2me_siemens_color_game
        > j2me_siemens_extension
        > j2me_heap_size
        > j2me_max_jar_size
        > j2me_rms_max_record_store
        > j2me_rms_max_record_number
        > j2me_rms_max_record_size
        > j2me_screen_width
        > j2me_screen_height
        > j2me_canvas_width
        > j2me_canvas_height
        > j2me_canvas_size
        > j2me_nokia_canvas_height
        > j2me_nokia_canvas_width
        > j2me_nokia_canvas_size
        > j2me_bits_per_pixel
        > j2me_audio_capture_enabled
        > j2me_video_capture_enabled
        > j2me_photo_capture_enabled
        > j2me_capture_image_formats
        > j2me_http
        > j2me_https
        > j2me_socket
        > j2me_udp
        > j2me_serial
        > j2me_gif
        > j2me_gif89a
        > j2me_jpg
        > j2me_png
        > j2me_bmp
        > j2me_bmp3
        > j2me_wbmp
        > j2me_midi
        > j2me_wav
        > j2me_amr
        > j2me_mp3
        > j2me_mp4
        > j2me_imelody
        > j2me_rmf
        > j2me_au
        > j2me_aac
        > j2me_realaudio
        > j2me_xmf
        > j2me_wma
        > j2me_3gpp
        > j2me_h263
        > j2me_svgt
        > j2me_mpeg4
        > j2me_realvideo
        > j2me_real8
        > j2me_realmedia
        > j2me_left_softkey_code
        > j2me_right_softkey_code
        > j2me_middle_softkey_code
        > j2me_select_key_code
        > j2me_return_key_code
        > j2me_clear_key_code
        > j2me_datefield_no_accepts_null_date
        > j2me_datefield_broken
        > j2me_root_certificate
        > has_qwerty_keyboard
        > platform (SE JP7, Nokia Series40, Series 60, etc.)
        > known_issues
        >
        >
        >
        > Feel free to edit and suggest additional capabilities.
        >
        > Thanks everyone!
        >
        > Cato
        > mBricks
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jim McLachlan
        Hi Cato, Thanks for this. It s something that could prove to be really useful. Can you clarify why there is a need to have j2me_canvas_... and
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 21, 2008
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          Hi Cato,

          Thanks for this. It's something that could prove to be really useful.

          Can you clarify why there is a need to have j2me_canvas_... and
          j2me_nokia_canvas_... attributes?

          I know that some devices don't necessarily report font metrics
          accurately, so perhaps it would be useful to have the following:

          j2me_font_system_plain_small_height
          j2me_font_system_plain_medium_height
          j2me_font_system_plain_large_height
          j2me_font_system_bold_small_height
          .
          .

          etc.

          I realise this list would be quite lengthy, but perhaps there are
          shortcuts (eg. if italics makes no difference to height in any case, etc.)

          As I understand it, some handsets store graphics in specific memory.
          Knowing the maximum size of this would be useful.

          Knowing what features are available from the
          MIDlet.platformRequest() method would be good too.

          A recent question that has arisen for me is how many handsets can
          reliably use push registry connections and/or alarms. I know that the
          spec. says the features are there, but I would be wary of assuming
          that they work on all devices.

          In the cases of the media types, I have found that the information I
          have searched for in the WURFL usually tends to be missing or not what
          I expect :-) As far as I can tell, the media attributes (eg.
          j2me_wav, j2me_mpeg4, etc.) are supposed to relate to media types that
          can be handled by J2ME on the device. However, AMR is a kind of
          ringtone, so I don't understand how this relates to J2ME. I might be
          missing something here, but I've been struggling with J2ME audio
          recently :-)

          j2me_capture_image_formats sounds like a list. What does this
          attribute represent?

          That's about it for now :-) I hope that this helps to continue the
          discussion.

          Kind regards.

          Jim.


          --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, "Cato Gleditsch" <cag@...> wrote:
          >
          > We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now. We
          > are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet our
          > product's requirements.
          >
          > While our DB is based on WURFL, we currently do a lot of manual
          > maintenance. This work is highly needed to meet the challenges of
          > Device Fragmentation. - Nevertheless, this is both time consuming and
          > expensive work.
          >
          > For this reason, we would like to see more happening at the level of
          > J2ME developers working together on this common issue. In order to
          > put our money where our mouth is, we will invest resources and share
          > the data collected through our effort so far, with the rest of the
          > community. We hope that this will bring others to follow suit and get
          > everyone to benefit.
          >
          > There are two main parts behind our initiative:
          > - Defining (or better, refining) the list of J2ME capabilities
          > currently in WURFL
          > - Creating a Midlet which people can download on their phones, to
          > automatically collect J2ME data and save them in a centralised
          > repository, for insertion into WURFL.
          >
          > Of course, the model will be the usual WURFL one: the data will be
          > open and available to everyone free of charge and intellectual
          > property claims.
          >
          > The model we envision is one where the WURFL J2ME developer community
          > will do its part by downloading the midlet and providing information
          > for devices that are relevant in their respective regions.
          >
          > If you are interested in supporting the initiative, please comment on
          > the list of capabilities we provide, preferably over the next 7 days.
          > Likewise, feel free to comment or ask any question you may have.
          > After collecting the requirements, we will develop and deploy the
          > application for everyone in the community to use.
          >
          > Here is the list of capabilities (we have kept the existing
          > capabilities already in WURFL, edited some of them):
          >
          > brand
          > device_name
          > user_agent
          > j2me_cldc_1_0 (JSR-30)
          > j2me_cldc_1_1 (JSR-139)
          > j2me_midp_1_0 (JSR-37)
          > j2me_midp_2_0 (JSR-118)
          > doja_1_0
          > doja_1_5
          > doja_2_0
          > doja_2_1
          > doja_2_2
          > doja_3_0
          > doja_3_5
          > doja_4_0
          > j2me_jtwi (JSR-185)
          > j2me_mmapi_1_0 (JSR-135)
          > j2me_mmapi_1_1 (JSR-135)
          > j2me_wmapi_1_0 (JSR-30)
          > j2me_wmapi_1_1 (JSR-120)
          > j2me_wmapi_2_0 (JSR-205)
          > j2me_btapi (JSR-82)
          > j2me_3dapi (JSR-184)
          > j2me_loctapi (JSR-179)
          > j2me_nokia_ui
          > j2me_motorola_lwt
          > j2me_siemens_color_game
          > j2me_siemens_extension
          > j2me_heap_size
          > j2me_max_jar_size
          > j2me_rms_max_record_store
          > j2me_rms_max_record_number
          > j2me_rms_max_record_size
          > j2me_screen_width
          > j2me_screen_height
          > j2me_canvas_width
          > j2me_canvas_height
          > j2me_canvas_size
          > j2me_nokia_canvas_height
          > j2me_nokia_canvas_width
          > j2me_nokia_canvas_size
          > j2me_bits_per_pixel
          > j2me_audio_capture_enabled
          > j2me_video_capture_enabled
          > j2me_photo_capture_enabled
          > j2me_capture_image_formats
          > j2me_http
          > j2me_https
          > j2me_socket
          > j2me_udp
          > j2me_serial
          > j2me_gif
          > j2me_gif89a
          > j2me_jpg
          > j2me_png
          > j2me_bmp
          > j2me_bmp3
          > j2me_wbmp
          > j2me_midi
          > j2me_wav
          > j2me_amr
          > j2me_mp3
          > j2me_mp4
          > j2me_imelody
          > j2me_rmf
          > j2me_au
          > j2me_aac
          > j2me_realaudio
          > j2me_xmf
          > j2me_wma
          > j2me_3gpp
          > j2me_h263
          > j2me_svgt
          > j2me_mpeg4
          > j2me_realvideo
          > j2me_real8
          > j2me_realmedia
          > j2me_left_softkey_code
          > j2me_right_softkey_code
          > j2me_middle_softkey_code
          > j2me_select_key_code
          > j2me_return_key_code
          > j2me_clear_key_code
          > j2me_datefield_no_accepts_null_date
          > j2me_datefield_broken
          > j2me_root_certificate
          > has_qwerty_keyboard
          > platform (SE JP7, Nokia Series40, Series 60, etc.)
          > known_issues
          >
          >
          >
          > Feel free to edit and suggest additional capabilities.
          >
          > Thanks everyone!
          >
          > Cato
          > mBricks
          >
        • Steven Green
          At Greenius we also make use of wurlf in combination with our own properties for J2ME. We are in the process of converting our properties into wurfl
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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            At Greenius we also make use of wurlf in combination with our own
            properties for J2ME. We are in the process of converting our properties
            into wurfl properties with the intention to add our data into wurfl. We
            are keen to help out with this project as everybody will benefit from
            more accurate and comprehensive data.

            Someone else already mentioned font sizes, which we have found to be
            important in some of our products when trying to design a screen layout
            that tries to fit everything on screen at once.

            The biggest lack for us in the current wurfl data is the soft key scan
            codes. They are in the wurfl properties, but are not very well
            populated and in many cases are wrong (eg. Motorola handsets where some
            use negative codes and some positive, some have center key and some
            don't, some have back key and others don't). When new handsets come
            out, we often just have to make a best effort guess at key scan codes,
            and it is not until external testing.. or in some cases users
            downloading and complaining it doesn't work that we know it is wrong.
            It is impossible for us to buy and test every handset on the market!

            The use of a diagnostic midlet to get information about handsets and
            upload data to a server is something that would really help here.
            Currently we have a simple midlet that we sometimes give out that will
            tell us keyscan codes, canvas size, font sizes... but it does not upload
            the data anywhere and we rely on a user telling us what it said on the
            screen.

            I couldn't see any properties relating to touch screen. Something like
            P990i is very problematic since it has seperate user interfaces
            depending on whether the keypad is open or closed.

            Some handsets the softkeys are in different places (eg. above the screen
            instead of below [Motorola A1000]).

            We also try to mimic the native user interface where possible for
            softkey usage, eg. some phones tend to use left softkey for a menu and
            right for back/done/exit... where others use right softkey as a select
            button and left for other options, etc... Maybe this can just be picked
            up from the manufacturer... although this is not reliable as some tend
            to change their interfaces on different ranges of phones. So maybe a
            property for ui-style could be useful.


            - Steven Green
            Greenius Limited
            www.greenius.ltd.uk
            www.oxfordsoftworks.co.uk
            www.nearme.eu
          • Cato Gleditsch
            Hi Jim, Thanks for your inputs! We as well have questions related to the capabilities and would like to discuss with all of you which ones to keep or add. Yes,
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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              Hi Jim,

              Thanks for your inputs! We as well have questions related to the
              capabilities and would like to discuss with all of you which ones to
              keep or add. Yes, the list can be quite long, so the question is what
              capabilities are most important at this stage? Additional
              capabilities can always be added later.

              Knowing max graphical memory size is nice to know, yes. The challenge
              may be to collect this from the MIDlet. However, it would be possible
              to add this information manually from an input field, or from the
              database GUI.

              We have experienced that even if the device supports the capability
              (specified by the manufacturer), do we have the guarantee that
              the device actual supports it? I guess this is something to keep in
              mind as well. Hopefully we can do something to push the manufacturers
              to enhance their implementations? The ultimate achievement would be
              to invite the manufactures to this group. :)

              Regarding the nokia_canvas we have seen there are some nokia devices
              that return different values for Canvas.getHeight(). A work around to
              meet this issue is an option, but I guess the intension to include
              the capability in the WURFL database was to assign a value for those
              capabilities.

              The j2me_capture_image_formats may sound like a list of formats, I'm
              not sure what this capability refers to, but MMAPI (JSR-135)
              referring to both capture_audio_formats and capture_video_formats
              where different formats can be specified i.e. encoding=audio/wav and
              encoding=video/3gpp.

              I have uploaded an edited list of capabilities so you all can follow
              the changes we make.

              Thanks,

              Cato
              mBricks


              --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, "Jim McLachlan" <jim@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Cato,
              >
              > Thanks for this. It's something that could prove to be really
              useful.
              >
              > Can you clarify why there is a need to have j2me_canvas_... and
              > j2me_nokia_canvas_... attributes?
              >
              > I know that some devices don't necessarily report font metrics
              > accurately, so perhaps it would be useful to have the following:
              >
              > j2me_font_system_plain_small_height
              > j2me_font_system_plain_medium_height
              > j2me_font_system_plain_large_height
              > j2me_font_system_bold_small_height
              > .
              > .
              >
              > etc.
              >
              > I realise this list would be quite lengthy, but perhaps there are
              > shortcuts (eg. if italics makes no difference to height in any
              case, etc.)
              >
              > As I understand it, some handsets store graphics in specific
              memory.
              > Knowing the maximum size of this would be useful.
              >
              > Knowing what features are available from the
              > MIDlet.platformRequest() method would be good too.
              >
              > A recent question that has arisen for me is how many handsets can
              > reliably use push registry connections and/or alarms. I know that
              the
              > spec. says the features are there, but I would be wary of assuming
              > that they work on all devices.
              >
              > In the cases of the media types, I have found that the
              information I
              > have searched for in the WURFL usually tends to be missing or not
              what
              > I expect :-) As far as I can tell, the media attributes (eg.
              > j2me_wav, j2me_mpeg4, etc.) are supposed to relate to media types
              that
              > can be handled by J2ME on the device. However, AMR is a kind of
              > ringtone, so I don't understand how this relates to J2ME. I might
              be
              > missing something here, but I've been struggling with J2ME audio
              > recently :-)
              >
              > j2me_capture_image_formats sounds like a list. What does this
              > attribute represent?
              >
              > That's about it for now :-) I hope that this helps to continue
              the
              > discussion.
              >
              > Kind regards.
              >
              > Jim.
              >
              >
              > --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, "Cato Gleditsch" <cag@> wrote:
              > >
              > > We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now.
              We
              > > are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet
              our
              > > product's requirements.
              > >
              > > While our DB is based on WURFL, we currently do a lot of manual
              > > maintenance. This work is highly needed to meet the challenges of
              > > Device Fragmentation. - Nevertheless, this is both time consuming
              and
              > > expensive work.
              > >
              > > For this reason, we would like to see more happening at the level
              of
              > > J2ME developers working together on this common issue. In order
              to
              > > put our money where our mouth is, we will invest resources and
              share
              > > the data collected through our effort so far, with the rest of
              the
              > > community. We hope that this will bring others to follow suit and
              get
              > > everyone to benefit.
              > >
              > > There are two main parts behind our initiative:
              > > - Defining (or better, refining) the list of J2ME capabilities
              > > currently in WURFL
              > > - Creating a Midlet which people can download on their phones, to
              > > automatically collect J2ME data and save them in a centralised
              > > repository, for insertion into WURFL.
              > >
              > > Of course, the model will be the usual WURFL one: the data will
              be
              > > open and available to everyone free of charge and intellectual
              > > property claims.
              > >
              > > The model we envision is one where the WURFL J2ME developer
              community
              > > will do its part by downloading the midlet and providing
              information
              > > for devices that are relevant in their respective regions.
              > >
              > > If you are interested in supporting the initiative, please
              comment on
              > > the list of capabilities we provide, preferably over the next 7
              days.
              > > Likewise, feel free to comment or ask any question you may have.
              > > After collecting the requirements, we will develop and deploy the
              > > application for everyone in the community to use.
              > >
              > > Here is the list of capabilities (we have kept the existing
              > > capabilities already in WURFL, edited some of them):
              > >
              > > brand
              > > device_name
              > > user_agent
              > > j2me_cldc_1_0 (JSR-30)
              > > j2me_cldc_1_1 (JSR-139)
              > > j2me_midp_1_0 (JSR-37)
              > > j2me_midp_2_0 (JSR-118)
              > > doja_1_0
              > > doja_1_5
              > > doja_2_0
              > > doja_2_1
              > > doja_2_2
              > > doja_3_0
              > > doja_3_5
              > > doja_4_0
              > > j2me_jtwi (JSR-185)
              > > j2me_mmapi_1_0 (JSR-135)
              > > j2me_mmapi_1_1 (JSR-135)
              > > j2me_wmapi_1_0 (JSR-30)
              > > j2me_wmapi_1_1 (JSR-120)
              > > j2me_wmapi_2_0 (JSR-205)
              > > j2me_btapi (JSR-82)
              > > j2me_3dapi (JSR-184)
              > > j2me_loctapi (JSR-179)
              > > j2me_nokia_ui
              > > j2me_motorola_lwt
              > > j2me_siemens_color_game
              > > j2me_siemens_extension
              > > j2me_heap_size
              > > j2me_max_jar_size
              > > j2me_rms_max_record_store
              > > j2me_rms_max_record_number
              > > j2me_rms_max_record_size
              > > j2me_screen_width
              > > j2me_screen_height
              > > j2me_canvas_width
              > > j2me_canvas_height
              > > j2me_canvas_size
              > > j2me_nokia_canvas_height
              > > j2me_nokia_canvas_width
              > > j2me_nokia_canvas_size
              > > j2me_bits_per_pixel
              > > j2me_audio_capture_enabled
              > > j2me_video_capture_enabled
              > > j2me_photo_capture_enabled
              > > j2me_capture_image_formats
              > > j2me_http
              > > j2me_https
              > > j2me_socket
              > > j2me_udp
              > > j2me_serial
              > > j2me_gif
              > > j2me_gif89a
              > > j2me_jpg
              > > j2me_png
              > > j2me_bmp
              > > j2me_bmp3
              > > j2me_wbmp
              > > j2me_midi
              > > j2me_wav
              > > j2me_amr
              > > j2me_mp3
              > > j2me_mp4
              > > j2me_imelody
              > > j2me_rmf
              > > j2me_au
              > > j2me_aac
              > > j2me_realaudio
              > > j2me_xmf
              > > j2me_wma
              > > j2me_3gpp
              > > j2me_h263
              > > j2me_svgt
              > > j2me_mpeg4
              > > j2me_realvideo
              > > j2me_real8
              > > j2me_realmedia
              > > j2me_left_softkey_code
              > > j2me_right_softkey_code
              > > j2me_middle_softkey_code
              > > j2me_select_key_code
              > > j2me_return_key_code
              > > j2me_clear_key_code
              > > j2me_datefield_no_accepts_null_date
              > > j2me_datefield_broken
              > > j2me_root_certificate
              > > has_qwerty_keyboard
              > > platform (SE JP7, Nokia Series40, Series 60, etc.)
              > > known_issues
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Feel free to edit and suggest additional capabilities.
              > >
              > > Thanks everyone!
              > >
              > > Cato
              > > mBricks
              > >
              >
            • Cato Gleditsch
              Hi Steven, I agree, the values of the softkeys codes have to be improved, and this is one thing we have discussed with Luca. When we all now are aware of this
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                Hi Steven,

                I agree, the values of the softkeys codes have to be improved, and
                this is one thing we have discussed with Luca. When we all now are
                aware of this project we hope that more will contribute with
                corrections and additional information.

                Touch screen capability is now added to the list as "has_stylus".

                Cheers,
                Cato
                mBricks
                www.mBricks.no


                --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Steven Green <steven@...> wrote:
                >
                > At Greenius we also make use of wurlf in combination with our own
                > properties for J2ME. We are in the process of converting our
                properties
                > into wurfl properties with the intention to add our data into
                wurfl. We
                > are keen to help out with this project as everybody will benefit
                from
                > more accurate and comprehensive data.
                >
                > Someone else already mentioned font sizes, which we have found to
                be
                > important in some of our products when trying to design a screen
                layout
                > that tries to fit everything on screen at once.
                >
                > The biggest lack for us in the current wurfl data is the soft key
                scan
                > codes. They are in the wurfl properties, but are not very well
                > populated and in many cases are wrong (eg. Motorola handsets where
                some
                > use negative codes and some positive, some have center key and some
                > don't, some have back key and others don't). When new handsets
                come
                > out, we often just have to make a best effort guess at key scan
                codes,
                > and it is not until external testing.. or in some cases users
                > downloading and complaining it doesn't work that we know it is
                wrong.
                > It is impossible for us to buy and test every handset on the
                market!
                >
                > The use of a diagnostic midlet to get information about handsets
                and
                > upload data to a server is something that would really help here.
                > Currently we have a simple midlet that we sometimes give out that
                will
                > tell us keyscan codes, canvas size, font sizes... but it does not
                upload
                > the data anywhere and we rely on a user telling us what it said on
                the
                > screen.
                >
                > I couldn't see any properties relating to touch screen. Something
                like
                > P990i is very problematic since it has seperate user interfaces
                > depending on whether the keypad is open or closed.
                >
                > Some handsets the softkeys are in different places (eg. above the
                screen
                > instead of below [Motorola A1000]).
                >
                > We also try to mimic the native user interface where possible for
                > softkey usage, eg. some phones tend to use left softkey for a menu
                and
                > right for back/done/exit... where others use right softkey as a
                select
                > button and left for other options, etc... Maybe this can just be
                picked
                > up from the manufacturer... although this is not reliable as some
                tend
                > to change their interfaces on different ranges of phones. So maybe
                a
                > property for ui-style could be useful.
                >
                >
                > - Steven Green
                > Greenius Limited
                > www.greenius.ltd.uk
                > www.oxfordsoftworks.co.uk
                > www.nearme.eu
                >
              • Igor Aptekar
                Can we just have j2me_cldc_version, j2me_midp_version, etc What is the point of having a capability for every version? Thanks, Igor Aptekar Technical Manager
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                  Can we just have j2me_cldc_version, j2me_midp_version, etc

                   

                  What is the point of having a capability for every version?

                   

                   

                   

                  Thanks,

                   

                  Igor Aptekar

                  Technical Manager

                   

                  Mfuse Ltd

                  3rd Floor,

                  Mitre House

                  177 Regent Street

                  London

                  W1B 4JN

                   

                  d: +44 (0)20 7154 2085

                  f: +44 (0)20 7494 9719


                  From: wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cato Gleditsch
                  Sent: 22 January 2008 13:42
                  To: wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [wurflj2me] Re: WURFL J2ME Application - J2ME capability collection

                   

                  Hi Steven,

                  I agree, the values of the softkeys codes have to be improved, and
                  this is one thing we have discussed with Luca. When we all now are
                  aware of this project we hope that more will contribute with
                  corrections and additional information.

                  Touch screen capability is now added to the list as "has_stylus" .

                  Cheers,
                  Cato
                  mBricks
                  www.mBricks. no

                  --- In wurflj2me@yahoogrou ps.com, Steven Green <steven@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > At Greenius we also make use of wurlf in combination with our own
                  > properties for J2ME. We are in the process of converting our
                  properties
                  > into wurfl properties with the intention to add our data into
                  wurfl. We
                  > are keen to help out with this project as everybody will benefit
                  from
                  > more accurate and comprehensive data.
                  >
                  > Someone else already mentioned font sizes, which we have found to
                  be
                  > important in some of our products when trying to design a screen
                  layout
                  > that tries to fit everything on screen at once.
                  >
                  > The biggest lack for us in the current wurfl data is the soft key
                  scan
                  > codes. They are in the wurfl properties, but are not very well
                  > populated and in many cases are wrong (eg. Motorola handsets where
                  some
                  > use negative codes and some positive, some have center key and some
                  > don't, some have back key and others don't). When new handsets
                  come
                  > out, we often just have to make a best effort guess at key scan
                  codes,
                  > and it is not until external testing.. or in some cases users
                  > downloading and complaining it doesn't work that we know it is
                  wrong.
                  > It is impossible for us to buy and test every handset on the
                  market!
                  >
                  > The use of a diagnostic midlet to get information about handsets
                  and
                  > upload data to a server is something that would really help here.
                  > Currently we have a simple midlet that we sometimes give out that
                  will
                  > tell us keyscan codes, canvas size, font sizes... but it does not
                  upload
                  > the data anywhere and we rely on a user telling us what it said on
                  the
                  > screen.
                  >
                  > I couldn't see any properties relating to touch screen. Something
                  like
                  > P990i is very problematic since it has seperate user interfaces
                  > depending on whether the keypad is open or closed.
                  >
                  > Some handsets the softkeys are in different places (eg. above the
                  screen
                  > instead of below [Motorola A1000]).
                  >
                  > We also try to mimic the native user interface where possible for
                  > softkey usage, eg. some phones tend to use left softkey for a menu
                  and
                  > right for back/done/exit. .. where others use right softkey as a
                  select
                  > button and left for other options, etc... Maybe this can just be
                  picked
                  > up from the manufacturer. .. although this is not reliable as some
                  tend
                  > to change their interfaces on different ranges of phones. So maybe
                  a
                  > property for ui-style could be useful.
                  >
                  >
                  > - Steven Green
                  > Greenius Limited
                  > www.greenius. ltd.uk
                  > www.oxfordsoftworks .co.uk
                  > www.nearme.eu
                  >

                • Luca Passani
                  ... are you sure that this is not a duplication of the has_pointing_device capability: http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/help_doc.php#product_info Pointing device
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                    Cato Gleditsch wrote:
                    > Hi Steven,
                    >
                    > I agree, the values of the softkeys codes have to be improved, and
                    > this is one thing we have discussed with Luca. When we all now are
                    > aware of this project we hope that more will contribute with
                    > corrections and additional information.
                    >
                    > Touch screen capability is now added to the list as "has_stylus".
                    >
                    are you sure that this is not a duplication of the has_pointing_device
                    capability:

                    http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/help_doc.php#product_info

                    Pointing device could be a stylus, but also a joystick or touchscreen.
                    If a device has the hardware, can one safely assume that reading input
                    with J2ME is possible?

                    Luca
                  • Cato Gleditsch
                    Luca, Yes, I agree, this is a duplication of the has_pointing_device capability. Thanks, Cato ... and ... are ... has_pointing_device ... touchscreen. ...
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                      Luca,

                      Yes, I agree, this is a duplication of the has_pointing_device
                      capability.

                      Thanks,
                      Cato



                      --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Luca Passani <passani@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Cato Gleditsch wrote:
                      > > Hi Steven,
                      > >
                      > > I agree, the values of the softkeys codes have to be improved,
                      and
                      > > this is one thing we have discussed with Luca. When we all now
                      are
                      > > aware of this project we hope that more will contribute with
                      > > corrections and additional information.
                      > >
                      > > Touch screen capability is now added to the list as "has_stylus".
                      > >
                      > are you sure that this is not a duplication of the
                      has_pointing_device
                      > capability:
                      >
                      > http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/help_doc.php#product_info
                      >
                      > Pointing device could be a stylus, but also a joystick or
                      touchscreen.
                      > If a device has the hardware, can one safely assume that reading
                      input
                      > with J2ME is possible?
                      >
                      > Luca
                      >
                    • Kieran
                      Hi Cato can I suggest we work together to combine benchmark suites and attempt to achieve complete coverage, for example we currently have code to detect soft
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                        Hi

                        Cato can I suggest we work together to combine benchmark suites and
                        attempt to achieve complete coverage, for example we currently have code
                        to detect soft key codes and relevant JSR support as detailed in earlier
                        posts

                        Cato have you written any code to output to suitable wurfl patch file
                        submissions as this was the stumbling block for the app we currently
                        have, our app already posts all the relevant details for HTTP post to a
                        given url so either need to do it app side or server side, id suggest
                        the later so that we can transform the data easily

                        Can I suggest some more fields to include

                        j2me_pim (jsr75)
                        j2me_pim_fromform

                        j2me_cert_verisign
                        j2me_cert_uti (Java verify)
                        j2me_cert_thawte

                        j2me_platformreq_tel
                        j2me_platformreq_sms
                        j2me_platformreq_http
                        j2me_platformreq_destroyapp_must_be_called

                        j2me_supports_push_registry

                        j2me_streams_mustbeclosed


                        One note for jar_maxsize this only holds true if the operator doesn't
                        place restrictions on the maximum size of a JAR (certain US operators
                        amongst others)

                        Happy to provide code or adapt our benchmarker which once we have tidied
                        up next week (6 days have been allocated now this list has come alive!)
                        will be released under the GPL, Luca would you be willing to host the
                        benchmarker d,b we can provide hosting if necessary that's not a problem
                        though its probably better in the hands of a neutral


                        Cato Gleditsch wrote:
                        >
                        > We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now. We
                        > are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet our
                        > product's requirements.
                        >
                        > While our DB is based on WURFL, we currently do a lot of manual
                        > maintenance. This work is highly needed to meet the challenges of
                        > Device Fragmentation. - Nevertheless, this is both time consuming and
                        > expensive work.
                        >
                        > For this reason, we would like to see more happening at the level of
                        > J2ME developers working together on this common issue. In order to
                        > put our money where our mouth is, we will invest resources and share
                        > the data collected through our effort so far, with the rest of the
                        > community. We hope that this will bring others to follow suit and get
                        > everyone to benefit.
                        >
                        > There are two main parts behind our initiative:
                        > - Defining (or better, refining) the list of J2ME capabilities
                        > currently in WURFL
                        > - Creating a Midlet which people can download on their phones, to
                        > automatically collect J2ME data and save them in a centralised
                        > repository, for insertion into WURFL.
                        >
                        > Of course, the model will be the usual WURFL one: the data will be
                        > open and available to everyone free of charge and intellectual
                        > property claims.
                        >
                        > The model we envision is one where the WURFL J2ME developer community
                        > will do its part by downloading the midlet and providing information
                        > for devices that are relevant in their respective regions.
                        >
                        > If you are interested in supporting the initiative, please comment on
                        > the list of capabilities we provide, preferably over the next 7 days.
                        > Likewise, feel free to comment or ask any question you may have.
                        > After collecting the requirements, we will develop and deploy the
                        > application for everyone in the community to use.
                        >
                        > Here is the list of capabilities (we have kept the existing
                        > capabilities already in WURFL, edited some of them):
                        >
                        > brand
                        > device_name
                        > user_agent
                        > j2me_cldc_1_0 (JSR-30)
                        > j2me_cldc_1_1 (JSR-139)
                        > j2me_midp_1_0 (JSR-37)
                        > j2me_midp_2_0 (JSR-118)
                        > doja_1_0
                        > doja_1_5
                        > doja_2_0
                        > doja_2_1
                        > doja_2_2
                        > doja_3_0
                        > doja_3_5
                        > doja_4_0
                        > j2me_jtwi (JSR-185)
                        > j2me_mmapi_1_0 (JSR-135)
                        > j2me_mmapi_1_1 (JSR-135)
                        > j2me_wmapi_1_0 (JSR-30)
                        > j2me_wmapi_1_1 (JSR-120)
                        > j2me_wmapi_2_0 (JSR-205)
                        > j2me_btapi (JSR-82)
                        > j2me_3dapi (JSR-184)
                        > j2me_loctapi (JSR-179)
                        > j2me_nokia_ui
                        > j2me_motorola_lwt
                        > j2me_siemens_color_game
                        > j2me_siemens_extension
                        > j2me_heap_size
                        > j2me_max_jar_size
                        > j2me_rms_max_record_store
                        > j2me_rms_max_record_number
                        > j2me_rms_max_record_size
                        > j2me_screen_width
                        > j2me_screen_height
                        > j2me_canvas_width
                        > j2me_canvas_height
                        > j2me_canvas_size
                        > j2me_nokia_canvas_height
                        > j2me_nokia_canvas_width
                        > j2me_nokia_canvas_size
                        > j2me_bits_per_pixel
                        > j2me_audio_capture_enabled
                        > j2me_video_capture_enabled
                        > j2me_photo_capture_enabled
                        > j2me_capture_image_formats
                        > j2me_http
                        > j2me_https
                        > j2me_socket
                        > j2me_udp
                        > j2me_serial
                        > j2me_gif
                        > j2me_gif89a
                        > j2me_jpg
                        > j2me_png
                        > j2me_bmp
                        > j2me_bmp3
                        > j2me_wbmp
                        > j2me_midi
                        > j2me_wav
                        > j2me_amr
                        > j2me_mp3
                        > j2me_mp4
                        > j2me_imelody
                        > j2me_rmf
                        > j2me_au
                        > j2me_aac
                        > j2me_realaudio
                        > j2me_xmf
                        > j2me_wma
                        > j2me_3gpp
                        > j2me_h263
                        > j2me_svgt
                        > j2me_mpeg4
                        > j2me_realvideo
                        > j2me_real8
                        > j2me_realmedia
                        > j2me_left_softkey_code
                        > j2me_right_softkey_code
                        > j2me_middle_softkey_code
                        > j2me_select_key_code
                        > j2me_return_key_code
                        > j2me_clear_key_code
                        > j2me_datefield_no_accepts_null_date
                        > j2me_datefield_broken
                        > j2me_root_certificate
                        > has_qwerty_keyboard
                        > platform (SE JP7, Nokia Series40, Series 60, etc.)
                        > known_issues
                        >
                        > Feel free to edit and suggest additional capabilities.
                        >
                        > Thanks everyone!
                        >
                        > Cato
                        > mBricks
                        >
                        >
                      • Kieran
                        Thinking about this some more and catching up with the main mailing list, would it be a good idea to platform request (where possible) off to the new test
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                          Thinking about this some more and catching up with the main mailing
                          list, would it be a good idea to platform request (where possible) off
                          to the new test suite? so that data can be captured easily there as well
                          and then submitted via the application as well?

                          food for thought!!

                          Kieran wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi
                          >
                          > Cato can I suggest we work together to combine benchmark suites and
                          > attempt to achieve complete coverage, for example we currently have code
                          > to detect soft key codes and relevant JSR support as detailed in earlier
                          > posts
                          >
                          > Cato have you written any code to output to suitable wurfl patch file
                          > submissions as this was the stumbling block for the app we currently
                          > have, our app already posts all the relevant details for HTTP post to a
                          > given url so either need to do it app side or server side, id suggest
                          > the later so that we can transform the data easily
                          >
                          > Can I suggest some more fields to include
                          >
                          > j2me_pim (jsr75)
                          > j2me_pim_fromform
                          >
                          > j2me_cert_verisign
                          > j2me_cert_uti (Java verify)
                          > j2me_cert_thawte
                          >
                          > j2me_platformreq_tel
                          > j2me_platformreq_sms
                          > j2me_platformreq_http
                          > j2me_platformreq_destroyapp_must_be_called
                          >
                          > j2me_supports_push_registry
                          >
                          > j2me_streams_mustbeclosed
                          >
                          > One note for jar_maxsize this only holds true if the operator doesn't
                          > place restrictions on the maximum size of a JAR (certain US operators
                          > amongst others)
                          >
                          > Happy to provide code or adapt our benchmarker which once we have tidied
                          > up next week (6 days have been allocated now this list has come alive!)
                          > will be released under the GPL, Luca would you be willing to host the
                          > benchmarker d,b we can provide hosting if necessary that's not a problem
                          > though its probably better in the hands of a neutral
                          >
                          > Cato Gleditsch wrote:
                          > >
                          > > We at mBricks have been using WURFL for more than 18 months now. We
                          > > are now seeing the need for additional j2me capabilities to meet our
                          > > product's requirements.
                          > >
                          > > While our DB is based on WURFL, we currently do a lot of manual
                          > > maintenance. This work is highly needed to meet the challenges of
                          > > Device Fragmentation. - Nevertheless, this is both time consuming and
                          > > expensive work.
                          > >
                          > > For this reason, we would like to see more happening at the level of
                          > > J2ME developers working together on this common issue. In order to
                          > > put our money where our mouth is, we will invest resources and share
                          > > the data collected through our effort so far, with the rest of the
                          > > community. We hope that this will bring others to follow suit and get
                          > > everyone to benefit.
                          > >
                          > > There are two main parts behind our initiative:
                          > > - Defining (or better, refining) the list of J2ME capabilities
                          > > currently in WURFL
                          > > - Creating a Midlet which people can download on their phones, to
                          > > automatically collect J2ME data and save them in a centralised
                          > > repository, for insertion into WURFL.
                          > >
                          > > Of course, the model will be the usual WURFL one: the data will be
                          > > open and available to everyone free of charge and intellectual
                          > > property claims.
                          > >
                          > > The model we envision is one where the WURFL J2ME developer community
                          > > will do its part by downloading the midlet and providing information
                          > > for devices that are relevant in their respective regions.
                          > >
                          > > If you are interested in supporting the initiative, please comment on
                          > > the list of capabilities we provide, preferably over the next 7 days.
                          > > Likewise, feel free to comment or ask any question you may have.
                          > > After collecting the requirements, we will develop and deploy the
                          > > application for everyone in the community to use.
                          > >
                          > > Here is the list of capabilities (we have kept the existing
                          > > capabilities already in WURFL, edited some of them):
                          > >
                          > > brand
                          > > device_name
                          > > user_agent
                          > > j2me_cldc_1_0 (JSR-30)
                          > > j2me_cldc_1_1 (JSR-139)
                          > > j2me_midp_1_0 (JSR-37)
                          > > j2me_midp_2_0 (JSR-118)
                          > > doja_1_0
                          > > doja_1_5
                          > > doja_2_0
                          > > doja_2_1
                          > > doja_2_2
                          > > doja_3_0
                          > > doja_3_5
                          > > doja_4_0
                          > > j2me_jtwi (JSR-185)
                          > > j2me_mmapi_1_0 (JSR-135)
                          > > j2me_mmapi_1_1 (JSR-135)
                          > > j2me_wmapi_1_0 (JSR-30)
                          > > j2me_wmapi_1_1 (JSR-120)
                          > > j2me_wmapi_2_0 (JSR-205)
                          > > j2me_btapi (JSR-82)
                          > > j2me_3dapi (JSR-184)
                          > > j2me_loctapi (JSR-179)
                          > > j2me_nokia_ui
                          > > j2me_motorola_lwt
                          > > j2me_siemens_color_game
                          > > j2me_siemens_extension
                          > > j2me_heap_size
                          > > j2me_max_jar_size
                          > > j2me_rms_max_record_store
                          > > j2me_rms_max_record_number
                          > > j2me_rms_max_record_size
                          > > j2me_screen_width
                          > > j2me_screen_height
                          > > j2me_canvas_width
                          > > j2me_canvas_height
                          > > j2me_canvas_size
                          > > j2me_nokia_canvas_height
                          > > j2me_nokia_canvas_width
                          > > j2me_nokia_canvas_size
                          > > j2me_bits_per_pixel
                          > > j2me_audio_capture_enabled
                          > > j2me_video_capture_enabled
                          > > j2me_photo_capture_enabled
                          > > j2me_capture_image_formats
                          > > j2me_http
                          > > j2me_https
                          > > j2me_socket
                          > > j2me_udp
                          > > j2me_serial
                          > > j2me_gif
                          > > j2me_gif89a
                          > > j2me_jpg
                          > > j2me_png
                          > > j2me_bmp
                          > > j2me_bmp3
                          > > j2me_wbmp
                          > > j2me_midi
                          > > j2me_wav
                          > > j2me_amr
                          > > j2me_mp3
                          > > j2me_mp4
                          > > j2me_imelody
                          > > j2me_rmf
                          > > j2me_au
                          > > j2me_aac
                          > > j2me_realaudio
                          > > j2me_xmf
                          > > j2me_wma
                          > > j2me_3gpp
                          > > j2me_h263
                          > > j2me_svgt
                          > > j2me_mpeg4
                          > > j2me_realvideo
                          > > j2me_real8
                          > > j2me_realmedia
                          > > j2me_left_softkey_code
                          > > j2me_right_softkey_code
                          > > j2me_middle_softkey_code
                          > > j2me_select_key_code
                          > > j2me_return_key_code
                          > > j2me_clear_key_code
                          > > j2me_datefield_no_accepts_null_date
                          > > j2me_datefield_broken
                          > > j2me_root_certificate
                          > > has_qwerty_keyboard
                          > > platform (SE JP7, Nokia Series40, Series 60, etc.)
                          > > known_issues
                          > >
                          > > Feel free to edit and suggest additional capabilities.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks everyone!
                          > >
                          > > Cato
                          > > mBricks
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                        • Luca Passani
                          If this is needed, I can host. Having a third party hosting would not necessarily be a problem though. In fact, I think that mBricks will do some hosting to
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                            If this is needed, I can host. Having a third party hosting would not
                            necessarily be a problem though. In fact, I think that mBricks will do
                            some hosting to part with and all that is required is that the
                            information they collect is fed back into WURFL and to the service of
                            the community that has generated it

                            Luca

                            Kieran wrote:
                            > Hi
                            >
                            > Cato can I suggest we work together to combine benchmark suites and
                            > attempt to achieve complete coverage, for example we currently have code
                            > to detect soft key codes and relevant JSR support as detailed in earlier
                            > posts
                            >
                            > Cato have you written any code to output to suitable wurfl patch file
                            > submissions as this was the stumbling block for the app we currently
                            > have, our app already posts all the relevant details for HTTP post to a
                            > given url so either need to do it app side or server side, id suggest
                            > the later so that we can transform the data easily
                            >
                            > Can I suggest some more fields to include
                            >
                            > j2me_pim (jsr75)
                            > j2me_pim_fromform
                            >
                            > j2me_cert_verisign
                            > j2me_cert_uti (Java verify)
                            > j2me_cert_thawte
                            >
                            > j2me_platformreq_tel
                            > j2me_platformreq_sms
                            > j2me_platformreq_http
                            > j2me_platformreq_destroyapp_must_be_called
                            >
                            > j2me_supports_push_registry
                            >
                            > j2me_streams_mustbeclosed
                            >
                            >
                            > One note for jar_maxsize this only holds true if the operator doesn't
                            > place restrictions on the maximum size of a JAR (certain US operators
                            > amongst others)
                            >
                            > Happy to provide code or adapt our benchmarker which once we have tidied
                            > up next week (6 days have been allocated now this list has come alive!)
                            > will be released under the GPL, Luca would you be willing to host the
                            > benchmarker d,b we can provide hosting if necessary that's not a problem
                            > though its probably better in the hands of a neutral
                            >
                            >
                          • Kieran
                            Not a problem we can provide hosting, it just if people would feel better having the application hosted somewhere else other than with a commercial company We
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 22, 2008
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                              Not a problem we can provide hosting, it just if people would feel
                              better having the application hosted somewhere else other than with a
                              commercial company

                              We currently have code to test for the following to save reinventing the
                              wheel

                              Operator
                              Country
                              web uastring
                              java uastring
                              ip
                              configuration
                              profile
                              encoding
                              heap memory
                              recordstorememory
                              static gif support
                              animated gif support
                              animated gif correct size
                              jpeg support
                              video support
                              list of mediatypes
                              left soft key
                              right soft key
                              green soft key
                              screen width
                              screen height
                              =======
                              jsrs
                              75
                              118
                              120
                              135
                              139
                              179
                              180
                              184
                              185
                              205
                              211
                              257

                              82
                              172
                              177
                              209
                              226
                              229
                              234
                              238
                              239


                              So fromCatos list I think we are missing that we can easily add tests for
                              nokia_ui,
                              siemens_ui,
                              siemens_extensions,
                              motorola_game
                              j2me_audio_capture_enabled
                              j2me_video_capture_enabled
                              j2me_photo_capture_enabled
                              j2me_capture_image_formats
                              j2me_http
                              j2me_https
                              j2me_socket
                              j2me_udp
                              j2me_middlesoftkey_code
                              has_qwerty_keyboard

                              known_issues (we probably should combine data here!!!!! ill let someone
                              else take the 6600)


                              not really sure how we can add tests from within the app if at all
                              max_jar_size
                              j2me_screen_width
                              j2me_screen_height


                              If anyone can provide code snippets of code to test for these much
                              appreciated

                              Kind regards

                              Kieran

                              Luca Passani wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > If this is needed, I can host. Having a third party hosting would not
                              > necessarily be a problem though. In fact, I think that mBricks will do
                              > some hosting to part with and all that is required is that the
                              > information they collect is fed back into WURFL and to the service of
                              > the community that has generated it
                              >
                              > Luca
                              >
                              > Kieran wrote:
                              > > Hi
                              > >
                              > > Cato can I suggest we work together to combine benchmark suites and
                              > > attempt to achieve complete coverage, for example we currently have
                              > code
                              > > to detect soft key codes and relevant JSR support as detailed in
                              > earlier
                              > > posts
                              > >
                              > > Cato have you written any code to output to suitable wurfl patch file
                              > > submissions as this was the stumbling block for the app we currently
                              > > have, our app already posts all the relevant details for HTTP post to a
                              > > given url so either need to do it app side or server side, id suggest
                              > > the later so that we can transform the data easily
                              > >
                              > > Can I suggest some more fields to include
                              > >
                              > > j2me_pim (jsr75)
                              > > j2me_pim_fromform
                              > >
                              > > j2me_cert_verisign
                              > > j2me_cert_uti (Java verify)
                              > > j2me_cert_thawte
                              > >
                              > > j2me_platformreq_tel
                              > > j2me_platformreq_sms
                              > > j2me_platformreq_http
                              > > j2me_platformreq_destroyapp_must_be_called
                              > >
                              > > j2me_supports_push_registry
                              > >
                              > > j2me_streams_mustbeclosed
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > One note for jar_maxsize this only holds true if the operator doesn't
                              > > place restrictions on the maximum size of a JAR (certain US operators
                              > > amongst others)
                              > >
                              > > Happy to provide code or adapt our benchmarker which once we have
                              > tidied
                              > > up next week (6 days have been allocated now this list has come alive!)
                              > > will be released under the GPL, Luca would you be willing to host the
                              > > benchmarker d,b we can provide hosting if necessary that's not a
                              > problem
                              > > though its probably better in the hands of a neutral
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                            • Sylvain Wallez
                              ... Talking about reinventing the wheel, I really think we should have a very close look at J2MEPolish. They have a quite comprehensive database (including
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 23, 2008
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                                Kieran wrote:
                                > Not a problem we can provide hosting, it just if people would feel
                                > better having the application hosted somewhere else other than with a
                                > commercial company
                                >
                                > We currently have code to test for the following to save reinventing the
                                > wheel
                                >

                                Talking about reinventing the wheel, I really think we should have a
                                very close look at J2MEPolish. They have a quite comprehensive database
                                (including keycodes, bugs, etc) and a nice tool to use it, including a
                                capabilities discovery midlet [1] and a wurfl bridge [2].

                                Having started to use J2MEPolish a few weeks ago, I'm quite impressed by
                                the richness of this data and how their build system leverages it very
                                nicely (their UI library is also nice, but I don't use it). I don't know
                                if there are J2MEPolish people around here, but I really think
                                collaboration with them would be a way to quicly have quality data and
                                tools.

                                From what I've seen up to now though, these people don't seem to
                                participate much in the community around the great code they are
                                open-sourcing, and this is bad. The website is clearly lacking updates,
                                but the whole product including the database [3] is updated almost daily.

                                Thoughts? How could we work with J2MEPolish?

                                Sylvain

                                [1] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/sysinfo/
                                [2] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/enough-polish-wurfl/
                                [3] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/build/

                                --
                                Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
                              • Raimon Rafols
                                Hi, I agree with Steven that lacking of softkey codes is a big issue but another feature that I m missing is the icon size. It may not be fatal (as softkeys)
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jan 23, 2008
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                                  Hi,

                                  I agree with Steven that lacking of softkey codes is a big issue but another feature that I'm missing is the icon size. It may not be fatal (as softkeys) for running your application, but if you do not choose the right icon size it appears broken or very small.

                                  Do you think we could gather this information here too?

                                  j2me_icon_width
                                  j2me_icon_height
                                  j2me_icon_format

                                  The main problem is that this couldn't be done by an automated proces.

                                  Regards,

                                  Raimon Rafols

                                  On Jan 23, 2008 12:09 PM, Sylvain Wallez <sylvain@...> wrote:

                                  Kieran wrote:
                                  > Not a problem we can provide hosting, it just if people would feel
                                  > better having the application hosted somewhere else other than with a
                                  > commercial company
                                  >
                                  > We currently have code to test for the following to save reinventing the
                                  > wheel
                                  >

                                  Talking about reinventing the wheel, I really think we should have a
                                  very close look at J2MEPolish. They have a quite comprehensive database
                                  (including keycodes, bugs, etc) and a nice tool to use it, including a
                                  capabilities discovery midlet [1] and a wurfl bridge [2].

                                  Having started to use J2MEPolish a few weeks ago, I'm quite impressed by
                                  the richness of this data and how their build system leverages it very
                                  nicely (their UI library is also nice, but I don't use it). I don't know
                                  if there are J2MEPolish people around here, but I really think
                                  collaboration with them would be a way to quicly have quality data and
                                  tools.

                                  From what I've seen up to now though, these people don't seem to
                                  participate much in the community around the great code they are
                                  open-sourcing, and this is bad. The website is clearly lacking updates,
                                  but the whole product including the database [3] is updated almost daily.

                                  Thoughts? How could we work with J2MEPolish?

                                  Sylvain

                                  [1] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/sysinfo/
                                  [2] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/enough-polish-wurfl/
                                  [3] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/build/

                                  --
                                  Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net




                                  --
                                  ----------------------
                                  Raimon Rafols
                                • Luca Passani
                                  While I am probably the least skilled J2ME programmer on this list, I think addressing this issue is up to me. From a technology viewpoint, I understand from
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jan 23, 2008
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                                    While I am probably the least skilled J2ME programmer on this list, I
                                    think addressing this issue is up to me.

                                    From a technology viewpoint, I understand from listening to others that
                                    J2MEPolish is good, but more info is often needed if you want to deliver
                                    your apps through the most demanding distribution channels (only
                                    reporting what others have said here).
                                    Also, while WURFL J2ME leaves a lot to be desired currently in terms of
                                    data, there seems to be a vibrant and motivated community here that can
                                    make up for the lost ground in a matter of weeks.

                                    Does this mean that I do not what to cooperate with J2ME Polish? not at
                                    all. I think that there is a lot to be gained in joining forces, since
                                    their power is primarily their APIs (and please correct me if I am
                                    wrong) and the potential overlap is only about the data.
                                    On the other hand, what people value with WURFL is its total openness
                                    and freedom. Data has to come from contributors who are committed to
                                    cooperate. This aspect must be preserved at all costs.

                                    In all honesty, if someone from J2MEPolish is listening and wants to be
                                    part of this by contributing data, they are very welcome.
                                    If J2ME-Polish perceives this initiative as competitive to their
                                    product, then it's better to keep WURFL on the current track and just
                                    include what comes from its community.

                                    Thanks

                                    Luca

                                    Sylvain Wallez wrote:
                                    > Talking about reinventing the wheel, I really think we should have a
                                    > very close look at J2MEPolish. They have a quite comprehensive database
                                    > (including keycodes, bugs, etc) and a nice tool to use it, including a
                                    > capabilities discovery midlet [1] and a wurfl bridge [2].
                                    >
                                    > Having started to use J2MEPolish a few weeks ago, I'm quite impressed by
                                    > the richness of this data and how their build system leverages it very
                                    > nicely (their UI library is also nice, but I don't use it). I don't know
                                    > if there are J2MEPolish people around here, but I really think
                                    > collaboration with them would be a way to quicly have quality data and
                                    > tools.
                                    >
                                    > From what I've seen up to now though, these people don't seem to
                                    > participate much in the community around the great code they are
                                    > open-sourcing, and this is bad. The website is clearly lacking updates,
                                    > but the whole product including the database [3] is updated almost daily.
                                    >
                                    > Thoughts? How could we work with J2MEPolish?
                                    >
                                    > Sylvain
                                    >
                                    > [1] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/sysinfo/
                                    > [2] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/enough-polish-wurfl/
                                    > [3] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/build/
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • teknokrat
                                    For a lot of us, a step in the right direction would be harmonizing both of your naming conventions for capabilities. A lot of us use the j2mepolish build
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                      For a lot of us, a step in the right direction would be harmonizing
                                      both of your naming conventions for capabilities. A lot of us use the
                                      j2mepolish build process and converting between the two naming
                                      conventions is a chore we'd like to avoid.


                                      --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Luca Passani <passani@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > While I am probably the least skilled J2ME programmer on this list, I
                                      > think addressing this issue is up to me.
                                      >
                                      > From a technology viewpoint, I understand from listening to others
                                      that
                                      > J2MEPolish is good, but more info is often needed if you want to
                                      deliver
                                      > your apps through the most demanding distribution channels (only
                                      > reporting what others have said here).
                                      > Also, while WURFL J2ME leaves a lot to be desired currently in terms of
                                      > data, there seems to be a vibrant and motivated community here that
                                      can
                                      > make up for the lost ground in a matter of weeks.
                                      >
                                      > Does this mean that I do not what to cooperate with J2ME Polish? not at
                                      > all. I think that there is a lot to be gained in joining forces, since
                                      > their power is primarily their APIs (and please correct me if I am
                                      > wrong) and the potential overlap is only about the data.
                                      > On the other hand, what people value with WURFL is its total openness
                                      > and freedom. Data has to come from contributors who are committed to
                                      > cooperate. This aspect must be preserved at all costs.
                                      >
                                      > In all honesty, if someone from J2MEPolish is listening and wants to be
                                      > part of this by contributing data, they are very welcome.
                                      > If J2ME-Polish perceives this initiative as competitive to their
                                      > product, then it's better to keep WURFL on the current track and just
                                      > include what comes from its community.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks
                                      >
                                      > Luca
                                      >
                                      > Sylvain Wallez wrote:
                                      > > Talking about reinventing the wheel, I really think we should have a
                                      > > very close look at J2MEPolish. They have a quite comprehensive
                                      database
                                      > > (including keycodes, bugs, etc) and a nice tool to use it,
                                      including a
                                      > > capabilities discovery midlet [1] and a wurfl bridge [2].
                                      > >
                                      > > Having started to use J2MEPolish a few weeks ago, I'm quite
                                      impressed by
                                      > > the richness of this data and how their build system leverages it
                                      very
                                      > > nicely (their UI library is also nice, but I don't use it). I
                                      don't know
                                      > > if there are J2MEPolish people around here, but I really think
                                      > > collaboration with them would be a way to quicly have quality data
                                      and
                                      > > tools.
                                      > >
                                      > > From what I've seen up to now though, these people don't seem to
                                      > > participate much in the community around the great code they are
                                      > > open-sourcing, and this is bad. The website is clearly lacking
                                      updates,
                                      > > but the whole product including the database [3] is updated almost
                                      daily.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thoughts? How could we work with J2MEPolish?
                                      > >
                                      > > Sylvain
                                      > >
                                      > > [1] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/sysinfo/
                                      > > [2]
                                      http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/enough-polish-wurfl/
                                      > > [3] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/build/
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Luca Passani
                                      ... Honestly, I wouldn t hold my breath....what s the J2MEPolish naming convention anyway? Please show them to me and I ll see what I can do, but if they are
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                        teknokrat wrote:
                                        > For a lot of us, a step in the right direction would be harmonizing
                                        > both of your naming conventions for capabilities. A lot of us use the
                                        > j2mepolish build process and converting between the two naming
                                        > conventions is a chore we'd like to avoid.
                                        >
                                        Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath....what's the J2MEPolish naming
                                        convention anyway?

                                        Please show them to me and I'll see what I can do, but if they are
                                        wildly different, I prefer to stick to WURFL naming conventions. Please
                                        consider that WURFL is J2ME and more, a lot more...

                                        Luca
                                      • Kieran
                                        I think whilst it would be great to get the J2ME polish people involved their strength lies in the apis that they provide, rather than the raw data Luca for
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                          I think whilst it would be great to get the J2ME polish people involved
                                          their strength lies in the apis that they provide, rather than the raw data

                                          Luca for your reference
                                          http://www.j2mepolish.org/devices/Sony-Ericsson/K800.html
                                          And their devices.xml is attached

                                          I think the best option is that we work together and develop a web
                                          interface that generates first of all and most importantly a WURFL patch
                                          and then if their is enough demand we can work at making it export to a
                                          J2ME Polish compatible format

                                          Here is a whitepaper on our take of the J2ME porting puzzle
                                          http://www.intohand.com/javamobilepdf.php

                                          Kind regards

                                          Kieran











                                          Luca Passani wrote:
                                          >
                                          > teknokrat wrote:
                                          > > For a lot of us, a step in the right direction would be harmonizing
                                          > > both of your naming conventions for capabilities. A lot of us use the
                                          > > j2mepolish build process and converting between the two naming
                                          > > conventions is a chore we'd like to avoid.
                                          > >
                                          > Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath....what's the J2MEPolish naming
                                          > convention anyway?
                                          >
                                          > Please show them to me and I'll see what I can do, but if they are
                                          > wildly different, I prefer to stick to WURFL naming conventions. Please
                                          > consider that WURFL is J2ME and more, a lot more...
                                          >
                                          > Luca
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Jim McLachlan
                                          I agree that it would be really useful if WURFL and J2ME Polish could work together. Does anybody know someone that works for the J2ME Polish project? I think
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                            I agree that it would be really useful if WURFL and J2ME Polish could
                                            work together.

                                            Does anybody know someone that works for the J2ME Polish project? I
                                            think this discussion has got to a stage where some kind of official
                                            response from J2ME Polish is required, even if it is only a
                                            confirmation that they are or are not willing to work with the WURFL
                                            community.

                                            Do we have someone in the group who can act as the official
                                            spokesperson for J2ME Polish?

                                            ( How many times can I type J2ME Polish in a single post??? ;-) )

                                            Kind regards.

                                            Jim.

                                            --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Kieran <canardo80@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I think whilst it would be great to get the J2ME polish people involved
                                            > their strength lies in the apis that they provide, rather than the
                                            raw data
                                            >
                                            > Luca for your reference
                                            > http://www.j2mepolish.org/devices/Sony-Ericsson/K800.html
                                            > And their devices.xml is attached
                                            >
                                            > I think the best option is that we work together and develop a web
                                            > interface that generates first of all and most importantly a WURFL
                                            patch
                                            > and then if their is enough demand we can work at making it export to a
                                            > J2ME Polish compatible format
                                            >
                                            > Here is a whitepaper on our take of the J2ME porting puzzle
                                            > http://www.intohand.com/javamobilepdf.php
                                            >
                                            > Kind regards
                                            >
                                            > Kieran
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Luca Passani wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > teknokrat wrote:
                                            > > > For a lot of us, a step in the right direction would be harmonizing
                                            > > > both of your naming conventions for capabilities. A lot of us
                                            use the
                                            > > > j2mepolish build process and converting between the two naming
                                            > > > conventions is a chore we'd like to avoid.
                                            > > >
                                            > > Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath....what's the J2MEPolish naming
                                            > > convention anyway?
                                            > >
                                            > > Please show them to me and I'll see what I can do, but if they are
                                            > > wildly different, I prefer to stick to WURFL naming conventions.
                                            Please
                                            > > consider that WURFL is J2ME and more, a lot more...
                                            > >
                                            > > Luca
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Luca Passani
                                            Thanks JIm. I think it s a good idea if someone brings what we are doing to J2ME polish attention. On the other hand, I would not want this to get in the way
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                              Thanks JIm. I think it's a good idea if someone brings what we are doing
                                              to J2ME polish attention.

                                              On the other hand, I would not want this to get in the way of what we
                                              are doing.
                                              In practice, if J2ME does not show up, we know where to go....

                                              making a script that converts WURFL data into J2ME polish data does not
                                              seem too hard (also, their syntax seems to have borrowed a lot from
                                              WURFL, which is good)

                                              Luca

                                              Jim McLachlan wrote:
                                              > I agree that it would be really useful if WURFL and J2ME Polish could
                                              > work together.
                                              >
                                              > Does anybody know someone that works for the J2ME Polish project? I
                                              > think this discussion has got to a stage where some kind of official
                                              > response from J2ME Polish is required, even if it is only a
                                              > confirmation that they are or are not willing to work with the WURFL
                                              > community.
                                              >
                                              > Do we have someone in the group who can act as the official
                                              > spokesperson for J2ME Polish?
                                              >
                                              > ( How many times can I type J2ME Polish in a single post??? ;-) )
                                              >
                                              > Kind regards.
                                              >
                                              > Jim.
                                              >
                                              > --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Kieran <canardo80@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> I think whilst it would be great to get the J2ME polish people involved
                                              >> their strength lies in the apis that they provide, rather than the
                                              >>
                                              > raw data
                                              >
                                              >> Luca for your reference
                                              >> http://www.j2mepolish.org/devices/Sony-Ericsson/K800.html
                                              >> And their devices.xml is attached
                                              >>
                                              >> I think the best option is that we work together and develop a web
                                              >> interface that generates first of all and most importantly a WURFL
                                              >>
                                              > patch
                                              >
                                              >> and then if their is enough demand we can work at making it export to a
                                              >> J2ME Polish compatible format
                                              >>
                                              >> Here is a whitepaper on our take of the J2ME porting puzzle
                                              >> http://www.intohand.com/javamobilepdf.php
                                              >>
                                              >> Kind regards
                                              >>
                                              >> Kieran
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                            • Bo Bartels
                                              Hi, i have a contact to one of the j2mepolish guys. But what should i ask them? why should they be interested in putting their data into a competitive system?
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                                Hi,
                                                i have a contact to one of the j2mepolish guys. But what should i ask
                                                them? why should they be interested in putting their data into a
                                                competitive system? They are working as a commercial company, earning
                                                money from selling licences for j2me polish for commercial
                                                projects....
                                                Benno


                                                --
                                                Antwort auf mail vom Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2008 um 12:17
                                                > Thanks JIm. I think it's a good idea if someone brings what we are doing
                                                > to J2ME polish attention.

                                                > On the other hand, I would not want this to get in the way of what we
                                                > are doing.
                                                > In practice, if J2ME does not show up, we know where to go....

                                                > making a script that converts WURFL data into J2ME polish data does not
                                                > seem too hard (also, their syntax seems to have borrowed a lot from
                                                > WURFL, which is good)

                                                > Luca

                                                > Jim McLachlan wrote:
                                                >> I agree that it would be really useful if WURFL and J2ME Polish could
                                                >> work together.
                                                >>
                                                >> Does anybody know someone that works for the J2ME Polish project? I
                                                >> think this discussion has got to a stage where some kind of official
                                                >> response from J2ME Polish is required, even if it is only a
                                                >> confirmation that they are or are not willing to work with the WURFL
                                                >> community.
                                                >>
                                                >> Do we have someone in the group who can act as the official
                                                >> spokesperson for J2ME Polish?
                                                >>
                                                >> ( How many times can I type J2ME Polish in a single post??? )
                                                >>
                                                >> Kind regards.
                                                >>
                                                >> Jim.
                                                >>
                                                >> --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Kieran <canardo80@...> wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>> I think whilst it would be great to get the J2ME polish people involved
                                                >>> their strength lies in the apis that they provide, rather than the
                                                >>>
                                                >> raw data
                                                >>
                                                >>> Luca for your reference
                                                >>> http://www.j2mepolish.org/devices/Sony-Ericsson/K800.html
                                                >>> And their devices.xml is attached
                                                >>>
                                                >>> I think the best option is that we work together and develop a web
                                                >>> interface that generates first of all and most importantly a WURFL
                                                >>>
                                                >> patch
                                                >>
                                                >>> and then if their is enough demand we can work at making it export to a
                                                >>> J2ME Polish compatible format
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Here is a whitepaper on our take of the J2ME porting puzzle
                                                >>> http://www.intohand.com/javamobilepdf.php
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Kind regards
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Kieran
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>

                                                >
                                              • Luca Passani
                                                Right. Maybe you may want to tell them about what is going on here (in case they don t know already) and let them decide if they want to have a role or not.
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                                  Right. Maybe you may want to tell them about what is going on here (in
                                                  case they don't know already) and let them decide if they want to have a
                                                  role or not.

                                                  Luca

                                                  Bo Bartels wrote:
                                                  > Hi,
                                                  > i have a contact to one of the j2mepolish guys. But what should i ask
                                                  > them? why should they be interested in putting their data into a
                                                  > competitive system? They are working as a commercial company, earning
                                                  > money from selling licences for j2me polish for commercial
                                                  > projects....
                                                  > Benno
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Kieran
                                                  Hi Raimon We as a company are willing to share this information if others are contributing as mentioned in our white paper icon size is something that is
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                                    Hi Raimon

                                                    We as a company are willing to share this information if others are
                                                    contributing

                                                    as mentioned in our white paper icon size is something that is fairly
                                                    hard information to obtain

                                                    http://www.intohand.com/javamobilepdf.php

                                                    We might run into a slight issue with some phones as they require
                                                    multiple icons for a given application

                                                    Kind regards

                                                    Raimon Rafols wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi,
                                                    >
                                                    > I agree with Steven that lacking of softkey codes is a big issue but
                                                    > another feature that I'm missing is the icon size. It may not be fatal
                                                    > (as softkeys) for running your application, but if you do not choose
                                                    > the right icon size it appears broken or very small.
                                                    >
                                                    > Do you think we could gather this information here too?
                                                    >
                                                    > j2me_icon_width
                                                    > j2me_icon_height
                                                    > j2me_icon_format
                                                    >
                                                    > The main problem is that this couldn't be done by an automated proces.
                                                    >
                                                    > Regards,
                                                    >
                                                    > Raimon Rafols
                                                    >
                                                    > On Jan 23, 2008 12:09 PM, Sylvain Wallez <sylvain@...
                                                    > <mailto:sylvain@...>> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Kieran wrote:
                                                    > > Not a problem we can provide hosting, it just if people would feel
                                                    > > better having the application hosted somewhere else other than
                                                    > with a
                                                    > > commercial company
                                                    > >
                                                    > > We currently have code to test for the following to save
                                                    > reinventing the
                                                    > > wheel
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Talking about reinventing the wheel, I really think we should have a
                                                    > very close look at J2MEPolish. They have a quite comprehensive
                                                    > database
                                                    > (including keycodes, bugs, etc) and a nice tool to use it,
                                                    > including a
                                                    > capabilities discovery midlet [1] and a wurfl bridge [2].
                                                    >
                                                    > Having started to use J2MEPolish a few weeks ago, I'm quite
                                                    > impressed by
                                                    > the richness of this data and how their build system leverages it
                                                    > very
                                                    > nicely (their UI library is also nice, but I don't use it). I
                                                    > don't know
                                                    > if there are J2MEPolish people around here, but I really think
                                                    > collaboration with them would be a way to quicly have quality data
                                                    > and
                                                    > tools.
                                                    >
                                                    > >From what I've seen up to now though, these people don't seem to
                                                    > participate much in the community around the great code they are
                                                    > open-sourcing, and this is bad. The website is clearly lacking
                                                    > updates,
                                                    > but the whole product including the database [3] is updated almost
                                                    > daily.
                                                    >
                                                    > Thoughts? How could we work with J2MEPolish?
                                                    >
                                                    > Sylvain
                                                    >
                                                    > [1] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/sysinfo/
                                                    > <http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/sysinfo/>
                                                    > [2]
                                                    > http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/enough-polish-wurfl/
                                                    > <http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/enough-polish-wurfl/>
                                                    > [3] http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/build/
                                                    > <http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/polish/build/>
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net <http://bluxte.net>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > ----------------------
                                                    > Raimon Rafols
                                                    >
                                                  • Luca Passani
                                                    On second thought, I don t even think the situation is so serious. After all, they have already released their data publicly. J2MEPolish is about the API and
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jan 24, 2008
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                                                      On second thought, I don't even think the situation is so serious. After
                                                      all, they have already released their data publicly.
                                                      J2MEPolish is about the API and there WURFL is not overlapping at all.
                                                      In fact, I suspect that many of those who intend to contribute also have
                                                      proprietary APIs, but this is not preventing them from sharing info
                                                      about device capabilities....

                                                      Luca

                                                      Luca Passani wrote:
                                                      > Right. Maybe you may want to tell them about what is going on here (in
                                                      > case they don't know already) and let them decide if they want to have a
                                                      > role or not.
                                                      >
                                                      > Luca
                                                      >
                                                      > Bo Bartels wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >> Hi,
                                                      >> i have a contact to one of the j2mepolish guys. But what should i ask
                                                      >> them? why should they be interested in putting their data into a
                                                      >> competitive system? They are working as a commercial company, earning
                                                      >> money from selling licences for j2me polish for commercial
                                                      >> projects....
                                                      >> Benno
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                    • Sylvain Wallez
                                                      ... I completely agree with that. The business of J2ME Polish is selling commercial licences of their GPL library and consulting/support services. Their
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jan 26, 2008
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                                                        Luca Passani wrote:
                                                        > On second thought, I don't even think the situation is so serious. After
                                                        > all, they have already released their data publicly.
                                                        > J2MEPolish is about the API and there WURFL is not overlapping at all.
                                                        > In fact, I suspect that many of those who intend to contribute also have
                                                        > proprietary APIs, but this is not preventing them from sharing info
                                                        > about device capabilities....
                                                        >

                                                        I completely agree with that. The business of J2ME Polish is selling
                                                        commercial licences of their GPL library and consulting/support services.

                                                        Their capabilities database is freely available (GPL also, but it makes
                                                        no harm when used in a build system, and it's data, not code) and would
                                                        certainly benefit from more contributions from the community, just like
                                                        WURFL does.

                                                        So it seems to me this really would be a win-win situation: avoiding
                                                        "device database fragmentation" and have a single solid open
                                                        capabilities database.

                                                        I'll post on the J2ME Polish lists, hoping they are listening.

                                                        Sylvain

                                                        --
                                                        Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
                                                      • Bo Bartels
                                                        Hi. Last week i send an email to one of the j2mepolish founders, alsking him to enter the discussion here in the forum. this is what i wrote: (i wrote in
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jan 27, 2008
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                                                          Hi.
                                                          Last week i send an email to one of the j2mepolish founders, alsking
                                                          him to enter the discussion here in the forum.
                                                          this is what i wrote:

                                                          (i wrote in german)

                                                          Hallo Robert,
                                                          sicher kennst du WURFL, eine OS Gerätedatenbank mit Fokus auf Mobile Web. Nun wurde das Projekt erweitert auf WURFL FlashLite und WURFL J2me. Ich bin, mehr informativ als aktiv, in der entsprechenden Usergruppe von Yahoo http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wurflj2me/. Hier wurde in letzter Zeit diskutiert, wie die WURFL DB im Bezug auf J2ME erweitert und verbessert werden könnte. Dabei kam auch die Frage auf, ob man nicht mit J2ME Polish kooperieren könnte. Da wir uns schon mal gesprochen haben auf der 3GSM letztes Jahr habe ich der Gruppe angeboten den Kontakt zu J2MEPolish herzustellen.
                                                          Ich denke es wäre sicher interessant wenn du (oder einer deiner Mitarbeiter) sich in bei der Gruppe anmelden würdest um zu sehen ob es für euch Sinn machen würde das Projekt durch Daten aus eurer Communuity zu unterstützen oder nicht.
                                                          Alternativ wäre hier die Adresse von Luca Passani, dem Initiator des Projekts: passani@...
                                                          Vielleicht ergibt sich ja eine interessante Kooperation zwischen den Projekten.

                                                          Schönen Gruß aus Nürnberg
                                                          Benno


                                                          --
                                                          Antwort auf mail vom Samstag, 26. Januar 2008 um 10:21
                                                          > Luca Passani wrote:
                                                          >> On second thought, I don't even think the situation is so serious. After
                                                          >> all, they have already released their data publicly.
                                                          >> J2MEPolish is about the API and there WURFL is not overlapping at all.
                                                          >> In fact, I suspect that many of those who intend to contribute also have
                                                          >> proprietary APIs, but this is not preventing them from sharing info
                                                          >> about device capabilities....
                                                          >>

                                                          > I completely agree with that. The business of J2ME Polish is selling
                                                          > commercial licences of their GPL library and consulting/support services.

                                                          > Their capabilities database is freely available (GPL also, but it makes
                                                          > no harm when used in a build system, and it's data, not code) and would
                                                          > certainly benefit from more contributions from the community, just like
                                                          > WURFL does.

                                                          > So it seems to me this really would be a win-win situation: avoiding
                                                          > "device database fragmentation" and have a single solid open
                                                          > capabilities database.

                                                          > I'll post on the J2ME Polish lists, hoping they are listening.

                                                          > Sylvain
                                                        • Luca Passani
                                                          Did they reply in any language? Luca
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                                            Did they reply in any language?

                                                            Luca

                                                            Bo Bartels wrote:
                                                            > Hi.
                                                            > Last week i send an email to one of the j2mepolish founders, alsking
                                                            > him to enter the discussion here in the forum.
                                                            > this is what i wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > (i wrote in german)
                                                            >
                                                            > Hallo Robert,
                                                            > sicher kennst du WURFL, eine OS Gerätedatenbank mit Fokus auf Mobile Web. Nun wurde das Projekt erweitert auf WURFL FlashLite und WURFL J2me. Ich bin, mehr informativ als aktiv, in der entsprechenden Usergruppe von Yahoo http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wurflj2me/. Hier wurde in letzter Zeit diskutiert, wie die WURFL DB im Bezug auf J2ME erweitert und verbessert werden könnte. Dabei kam auch die Frage auf, ob man nicht mit J2ME Polish kooperieren könnte. Da wir uns schon mal gesprochen haben auf der 3GSM letztes Jahr habe ich der Gruppe angeboten den Kontakt zu J2MEPolish herzustellen.
                                                            > Ich denke es wäre sicher interessant wenn du (oder einer deiner Mitarbeiter) sich in bei der Gruppe anmelden würdest um zu sehen ob es für euch Sinn machen würde das Projekt durch Daten aus eurer Communuity zu unterstützen oder nicht.
                                                            > Alternativ wäre hier die Adresse von Luca Passani, dem Initiator des Projekts: passani@...
                                                            > Vielleicht ergibt sich ja eine interessante Kooperation zwischen den Projekten.
                                                            >
                                                            > Schönen Gruß aus Nürnberg
                                                            > Benno
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                          • Bo Bartels
                                                            Not yet. I keep you informed. Bo -- Antwort auf mail vom Montag, 28. Januar 2008 um 12:07
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                                              Not yet. I keep you informed.
                                                              Bo


                                                              --
                                                              Antwort auf mail vom Montag, 28. Januar 2008 um 12:07
                                                              > Did they reply in any language?

                                                              > Luca

                                                              > Bo Bartels wrote:
                                                              >> Hi.
                                                              >> Last week i send an email to one of the j2mepolish founders, alsking
                                                              >> him to enter the discussion here in the forum.
                                                              >> this is what i wrote:
                                                              >>
                                                              >> (i wrote in german)
                                                              >>
                                                              >> Hallo Robert,
                                                              >> sicher kennst du WURFL, eine OS Gerätedatenbank mit Fokus auf Mobile Web. Nun wurde das Projekt erweitert auf WURFL FlashLite und WURFL J2me. Ich bin, mehr informativ als aktiv, in der entsprechenden Usergruppe von Yahoo http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wurflj2me/. Hier wurde in letzter Zeit diskutiert, wie die WURFL DB im Bezug auf J2ME erweitert und verbessert werden könnte. Dabei kam auch die Frage auf, ob man nicht mit J2ME Polish kooperieren könnte. Da wir uns schon mal gesprochen haben auf der 3GSM letztes Jahr habe ich der Gruppe angeboten den Kontakt zu J2MEPolish herzustellen.
                                                              >> Ich denke es wäre sicher interessant wenn du (oder einer deiner Mitarbeiter) sich in bei der Gruppe anmelden würdest um zu sehen ob es für euch Sinn machen würde das Projekt durch Daten aus eurer Communuity zu unterstützen oder nicht.
                                                              >> Alternativ wäre hier die Adresse von Luca Passani, dem Initiator des Projekts: passani@...
                                                              >> Vielleicht ergibt sich ja eine interessante Kooperation zwischen den Projekten.
                                                              >>
                                                              >> Schönen Gruß aus Nürnberg
                                                              >> Benno
                                                              >>
                                                              >>
                                                              >>


                                                              >
                                                            • masochismtang0
                                                              Hi, I have found that there is a marked difference between touch screens designed to be used with a stylus - eg. Sony-Ericsson UIQ devices, WinMob PocketPCs
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Mar 8, 2008
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                                                                Hi,

                                                                I have found that there is a marked difference between touch screens
                                                                designed to be used with a stylus - eg. Sony-Ericsson UIQ devices,
                                                                WinMob PocketPCs etc - and those designed to be used by fingers, such
                                                                as the LG Prada. The iPhone is different again with multitouch.
                                                                These sorts of differences matter when laying out touch screen
                                                                controls - the Prada needs much bigger touch sensitive regions becuase
                                                                accuracy is far lower.

                                                                Can this be factored in somehow?


                                                                Best regards,
                                                                Tom Godber,
                                                                Masabi.


                                                                --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, "Cato Gleditsch" <cag@...> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > Luca,
                                                                >
                                                                > Yes, I agree, this is a duplication of the has_pointing_device
                                                                > capability.
                                                                >
                                                                > Thanks,
                                                                > Cato
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In wurflj2me@yahoogroups.com, Luca Passani <passani@> wrote:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Cato Gleditsch wrote:
                                                                > > > Hi Steven,
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > I agree, the values of the softkeys codes have to be improved,
                                                                > and
                                                                > > > this is one thing we have discussed with Luca. When we all now
                                                                > are
                                                                > > > aware of this project we hope that more will contribute with
                                                                > > > corrections and additional information.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Touch screen capability is now added to the list as "has_stylus".
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > are you sure that this is not a duplication of the
                                                                > has_pointing_device
                                                                > > capability:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/help_doc.php#product_info
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Pointing device could be a stylus, but also a joystick or
                                                                > touchscreen.
                                                                > > If a device has the hardware, can one safely assume that reading
                                                                > input
                                                                > > with J2ME is possible?
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Luca
                                                                > >
                                                                >
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