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Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

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  • wuhu_software
    I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that swept through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least one was an F2 tornado. I
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
      I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that swept
      through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least one was
      an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
      area in the middle of the night (so the news says).

      Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots in
      Flordia, been there many times visting family).

      On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to wake
      people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.

      Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running. I
      am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am guessing
      that they were.

      It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.

      Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still get
      a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
      activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
    • Mark Wyman
      I always wondered about having telephones linked into the Emergency network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local emergencies like this. It
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007

        I always wondered about having telephones linked into the Emergency network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the telephone company, who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days everyone has a phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal solution. Of course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this service.

         

        -Mark

         


        From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of wuhu_software
        Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
        To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

         

        I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that swept
        through central Florida . The current estimate is that at least one was
        an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
        area in the middle of the night (so the news says).

        Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots in
        Flordia, been there many times visting family).

        On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to wake
        people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida .

        Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running. I
        am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am guessing
        that they were.

        It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.

        Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still get
        a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
        activating alert devices (say X10 devices).

      • wuhu_software
        Mark, That makes a lot of sense, especially in Florida where there is a real lack of tornado sirens. I do not quite understand the logic that they do not want
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
          Mark,

          That makes a lot of sense, especially in Florida where there is a
          real lack of tornado sirens.

          I do not quite understand the logic that they do not want to scare
          and confuse tourists.

          I would rather be scared than dead.


          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wyman" <mark@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the Emergency
          network,
          > so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local
          emergencies like
          > this. It would be driven by law from the telephone company, who
          could target
          > just the areas of concern. Since these days everyone has a phone,
          and not
          > many have weather radios, it would be an ideal solution. Of course
          they
          > would probably tack on another $2 a month for this service.
          >
          >
          >
          > -Mark
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          wuhu_software
          > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
          > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central
          Florida in the
          > middle of the night.
          >
          >
          >
          > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that
          swept
          > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least one
          was
          > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
          > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
          >
          > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots
          in
          > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
          >
          > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to
          wake
          > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
          >
          > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running.
          I
          > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
          guessing
          > that they were.
          >
          > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.
          >
          > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still
          get
          > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
          > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
          >
        • Alan Steremberg
          I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can trigger with an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos people about
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
            I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can trigger with an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos people about integrating it into their system, but they didn't really understand the emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to automatically switch from pretty music to weather radio.

            Alan

            On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@...> wrote:

            I always wondered about having telephones linked into the Emergency network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the telephone company, who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days everyone has a phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal solution. Of course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this service.

             

            -Mark

             


            From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of wuhu_software
            Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
            To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

             

            I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that swept
            through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least one was
            an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
            area in the middle of the night (so the news says).

            Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots in
            Flordia, been there many times visting family).

            On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to wake
            people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.

            Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running. I
            am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am guessing
            that they were.

            It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.

            Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still get
            a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
            activating alert devices (say X10 devices).




            --
            Alan Steremberg
            Weather Underground
            415-543-5022 x 103
            http://www.wunderground.com
          • Mark Wyman
            It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence. -Rodger Waters. _____ From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007

              “It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence.”

              -Rodger Waters.

               


              From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Alan Steremberg
              Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:40 AM
              To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

               

              I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can trigger with an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos people about integrating it into their system, but they didn't really understand the emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to automatically switch from pretty music to weather radio.

              Alan

              On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@markwyman. com> wrote:

              I always wondered about having telephones linked into the Emergency network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the telephone company, who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days everyone has a phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal solution. Of course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this service.

               

              -Mark

               


              From: wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of wuhu_software
              Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
              To: wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [wuhu_software_ group] Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

               

              I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that swept
              through central Florida . The current estimate is that at least one was
              an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
              area in the middle of the night (so the news says).

              Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots in
              Flordia, been there many times visting family).

              On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to wake
              people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida .

              Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running. I
              am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am guessing
              that they were.

              It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.

              Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still get
              a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
              activating alert devices (say X10 devices).




              --
              Alan Steremberg
              Weather Underground
              415-543-5022 x 103
              http://www.wundergr ound.com

            • wuhu_software
              Alan, A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS feeds that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that are available to
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                Alan,

                A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS feeds
                that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.

                In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for some
                simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active throughout
                the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                thought this might be something that is developed over the next few
                years.

                The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent over
                the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might require
                some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.

                If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts, you
                could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol, this
                could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system would be
                responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.

                As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with a
                packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event codes if
                those events are active.

                These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU and
                WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client side.

                On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information (based
                on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.

                If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                applications could be developed to take advantage of such a system.
                You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar), or
                integration with existing appications (weather apps, home automation
                systems, email and pager alert systems).

                So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put together
                easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream that
                contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream), and
                a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.


                ---

                Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding

                Here are the Internet feeds that I found.

                1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is available to
                the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the protocol.
                It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways, satellite,
                VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                understand how to process the protocol, none are free.

                2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the wire
                but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.

                3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-real
                time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by a
                commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-band.
                It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications within
                the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations, TV,
                etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather services.


                --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                <alans@...> wrote:
                >
                > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                trigger with
                > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos
                people about
                > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really understand
                the
                > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                automatically
                > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                >
                > Alan
                >
                > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                Emergency
                > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local
                > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                telephone company,
                > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                everyone has a
                > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal
                solution. Of
                > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this
                service.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > -Mark
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------
                > >
                > > *From:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                > > wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software
                > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                > > *To:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central
                Florida in
                > > the middle of the night.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that
                swept
                > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least
                one was
                > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through
                the
                > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                > >
                > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite
                spots in
                > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                > >
                > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to
                wake
                > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                > >
                > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                running. I
                > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
                guessing
                > > that they were.
                > >
                > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.
                > >
                > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could
                still get
                > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Alan Steremberg
                > Weather Underground
                > 415-543-5022 x 103
                > http://www.wunderground.com
                >
              • Alan Steremberg
                Hi, We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for by zipcode ($10/year or free to weather station owners). Ed at AmbientWeather has a
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                  Hi,

                  We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for by zipcode ($10/year or free to weather station owners).

                  Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the tray, but I don't think it is quite what we want. 

                  We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to deliver the alerts, and the small client application to start playing the local NWS weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).

                  If someone wants to build the client application, we will be happy to do the heavy lifting in the back end.

                  Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that much overhead if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't really easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at home since 99% of them are behind a firewall router.  We could use UPNP from the client and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and others) but it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My bellsouth modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.

                  I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet, seems like that might be easy / good.


                  Alan

                  On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:

                  Alan,

                  A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS feeds
                  that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                  are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                  time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                  expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.

                  In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for some
                  simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active throughout
                  the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                  thought this might be something that is developed over the next few
                  years.

                  The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                  difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent over
                  the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might require
                  some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.

                  If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts, you
                  could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol, this
                  could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system would be
                  responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.

                  As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                  that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with a
                  packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event codes if
                  those events are active.

                  These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                  packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU and
                  WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                  packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client side.

                  On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                  sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                  begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                  reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information (based
                  on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                  actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.

                  If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                  applications could be developed to take advantage of such a system.
                  You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar), or
                  integration with existing appications (weather apps, home automation
                  systems, email and pager alert systems).

                  So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put together
                  easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream that
                  contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream), and
                  a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                  efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.

                  ---

                  Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding

                  Here are the Internet feeds that I found.

                  1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is available to
                  the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the protocol.
                  It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways, satellite,
                  VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                  mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                  understand how to process the protocol, none are free.

                  2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                  controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                  Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                  might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                  might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the wire
                  but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.

                  3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                  communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-real
                  time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by a
                  commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-band.
                  It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications within
                  the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                  and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations, TV,
                  etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather services.

                  --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                  <alans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                  trigger with
                  > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos
                  people about
                  > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really understand
                  the
                  > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                  automatically
                  > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                  >
                  > Alan
                  >
                  > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                  Emergency
                  > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local
                  > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                  telephone company,
                  > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                  everyone has a
                  > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal
                  solution. Of
                  > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this
                  service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -Mark
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > *From:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                  > > wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software


                  > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                  > > *To:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                  > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central
                  Florida in
                  > > the middle of the night.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that
                  swept
                  > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least
                  one was
                  > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through
                  the
                  > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                  > >
                  > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite
                  spots in
                  > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                  > >
                  > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to
                  wake
                  > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                  > >
                  > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                  running. I
                  > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
                  guessing
                  > > that they were.
                  > >
                  > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.
                  > >
                  > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could
                  still get
                  > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                  > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Alan Steremberg
                  > Weather Underground
                  > 415-543-5022 x 103
                  > http://www.wunderground.com
                  >




                  --
                  Alan Steremberg
                  Weather Underground
                  415-543-5022 x 103
                  http://www.wunderground.com
                • DKee
                  I don t understand most of the technical stuff you guys are discussing (although for some weird reason, I find it interesting!) but can easily say that Ambient
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                    I don't understand most of the technical stuff you guys are discussing (although for some weird reason, I find it interesting!) but can easily say that Ambient as well as the Weather Channel desktop software aren't that great. First negative I personally find is the clutter, or excessive stuff that is not optional to get rid of. It would be really great to have a straight-forward, no nonsense program. If a person wants extra bells and whistles, it should be a users choice.

                    Just my 2 cents worth  :-)

                    ~ Deborah


                    On 2/2/07, Alan Steremberg <alans@... > wrote:

                    Hi,

                    We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for by zipcode ($10/year or free to weather station owners).

                    Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the tray, but I don't think it is quite what we want. 

                    We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to deliver the alerts, and the small client application to start playing the local NWS weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).

                    If someone wants to build the client application, we will be happy to do the heavy lifting in the back end.

                    Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that much overhead if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't really easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at home since 99% of them are behind a firewall router.  We could use UPNP from the client and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and others) but it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My bellsouth modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.

                    I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet, seems like that might be easy / good.


                    Alan

                    On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:

                    Alan,

                    A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS feeds
                    that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                    are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                    time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                    expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.

                    In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for some
                    simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active throughout
                    the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                    thought this might be something that is developed over the next few
                    years.

                    The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                    difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent over
                    the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might require
                    some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.

                    If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts, you
                    could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol, this
                    could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system would be
                    responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.

                    As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                    that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with a
                    packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event codes if
                    those events are active.

                    These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                    packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU and
                    WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                    packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client side.

                    On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                    sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                    begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                    reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information (based
                    on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                    actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.

                    If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                    applications could be developed to take advantage of such a system.
                    You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar), or
                    integration with existing appications (weather apps, home automation
                    systems, email and pager alert systems).

                    So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put together
                    easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream that
                    contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream), and
                    a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                    efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.

                    ---

                    Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding

                    Here are the Internet feeds that I found.

                    1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is available to
                    the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the protocol.
                    It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways, satellite,
                    VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                    mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                    understand how to process the protocol, none are free.

                    2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                    controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                    Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                    might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                    might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the wire
                    but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.

                    3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                    communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-real
                    time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by a
                    commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-band.
                    It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications within
                    the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                    and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations, TV,
                    etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather services.

                    --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                    <alans@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                    trigger with
                    > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos
                    people about
                    > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really understand
                    the
                    > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                    automatically
                    > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                    >
                    > Alan
                    >
                    > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                    Emergency
                    > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local
                    > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                    telephone company,
                    > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                    everyone has a
                    > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal
                    solution. Of
                    > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this
                    service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -Mark
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > *From:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                    > > wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software


                    > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                    > > *To:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                    > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central
                    Florida in
                    > > the middle of the night.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that
                    swept
                    > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least
                    one was
                    > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through
                    the
                    > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                    > >
                    > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite
                    spots in
                    > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                    > >
                    > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to
                    wake
                    > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                    > >
                    > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                    running. I
                    > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
                    guessing
                    > > that they were.
                    > >
                    > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.
                    > >
                    > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could
                    still get
                    > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                    > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Alan Steremberg
                    > Weather Underground
                    > 415-543-5022 x 103
                    > http://www.wunderground.com
                    >




                    --
                    Alan Steremberg
                    Weather Underground
                    415-543-5022 x 103
                    http://www.wunderground.com


                  • Mark Wyman
                    It would be all fine and dandy if everyone left their computers running. The problem is most people turn it on to check Email, do a few things, and turn it off
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007

                      It would be all fine and dandy if everyone left their computers running. The problem is most people turn it on to check Email, do a few things, and turn it off again. People like us who have weather stations and PC enthusiasts are about the only ones who do leave things running. Not to mention if I know I will have thunderstorms, I yank all cables to the PC. I still think phone alerts are very practical as the phone service is usually last to go with land-lines. The tough part would be how to regulate when an alert event was to occur, when a storm is right on the doorstep, or still 15 minutes away. Always the problem when dealing with people who will be ticked off when they are awoken in the night and then the storm fizzles. They unplug the phone and go back to sleep.

                       

                      -Mark

                       


                      From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Alan Steremberg
                      Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:06 PM
                      To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

                       

                      Hi,

                      We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for by zipcode ($10/year or free to weather station owners).

                      Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the tray, but I don't think it is quite what we want. 

                      We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to deliver the alerts, and the small client application to start playing the local NWS weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).

                      If someone wants to build the client application, we will be happy to do the heavy lifting in the back end.

                      Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that much overhead if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't really easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at home since 99% of them are behind a firewall router.  We could use UPNP from the client and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and others) but it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My bellsouth modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.

                      I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet, seems like that might be easy / good.


                      Alan

                      On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                      Alan,

                      A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS feeds
                      that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                      are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                      time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                      expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.

                      In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for some
                      simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active throughout
                      the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                      thought this might be something that is developed over the next few
                      years.

                      The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                      difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent over
                      the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might require
                      some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.

                      If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts, you
                      could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol, this
                      could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system would be
                      responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.

                      As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                      that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with a
                      packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event codes if
                      those events are active.

                      These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                      packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU and
                      WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                      packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client side.

                      On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                      sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                      begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                      reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information (based
                      on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                      actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.

                      If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                      applications could be developed to take advantage of such a system.
                      You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar), or
                      integration with existing appications (weather apps, home automation
                      systems, email and pager alert systems).

                      So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put together
                      easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream that
                      contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream), and
                      a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                      efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.

                      ---

                      Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:

                      http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Specific_ Area_Message_ Encoding

                      Here are the Internet feeds that I found.

                      1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is available to
                      the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the protocol.
                      It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways, satellite,
                      VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                      mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                      understand how to process the protocol, none are free.

                      2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                      controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                      Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                      might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                      might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the wire
                      but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.

                      3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                      communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-real
                      time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by a
                      commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-band.
                      It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications within
                      the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                      and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations, TV,
                      etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather services.

                      --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                      <alans@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we
                      can
                      trigger with
                      > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the
                      sonos
                      people about
                      > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really
                      understand
                      the
                      > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio
                      to
                      automatically
                      > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                      >
                      > Alan
                      >
                      > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into
                      the
                      Emergency
                      > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring
                      during local
                      > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from
                      the
                      telephone company,
                      > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these
                      days
                      everyone has a
                      > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an
                      ideal
                      solution. Of
                      > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month
                      for this
                      service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -Mark
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------ --------- ---------
                      > >
                      > > *From:*
                      target="_blank">wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:
                      > > wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com]
                      *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software


                      > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                      > > *To:*
                      href="mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com

                      > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_ group] Tornados sweep
                      through central


                      Florida in
                      > > the middle of the night.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I was just watching the news this morning about the
                      tornados that
                      swept
                      > > through central Florida .
                      The current estimate is that at least
                      one was
                      > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept
                      through
                      the
                      > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                      > >
                      > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my
                      favorite
                      spots in
                      > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                      > >
                      > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather
                      radios to
                      wake
                      > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in
                      w:st="on"> Florida .
                      > >
                      > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up
                      and
                      running. I
                      > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out,
                      but I am
                      guessing
                      > > that they were.
                      > >
                      > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the
                      desktop.
                      > >
                      > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio
                      could
                      still get
                      > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text,
                      or even
                      > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      > --

                      > Alan Steremberg
                      > Weather Underground
                      > 415-543-5022 x 103
                      > http://www.wundergr ound.com
                      >




                      --
                      Alan Steremberg
                      Weather Underground
                      415-543-5022 x 103
                      http://www.wundergr ound.com

                    • wuhu_software
                      Alan, I would be interested in developing an application for the tray. Let me know when you guys have a protocol/scheme to work with. I can throw applications
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                        Alan,

                        I would be interested in developing an application for the tray.

                        Let me know when you guys have a protocol/scheme to work with.

                        I can throw applications together pretty quickly.

                        Thanks.



                        --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                        <alans@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for
                        by zipcode
                        > ($10/year or free to weather station owners).
                        >
                        > Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the tray,
                        but I
                        > don't think it is quite what we want.
                        >
                        > We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to deliver
                        the
                        > alerts, and the small client application to start playing the local
                        NWS
                        > weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could
                        > optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).
                        >
                        > If someone wants to build the client application, we will be happy
                        to do the
                        > heavy lifting in the back end.
                        >
                        > Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that much
                        overhead
                        > if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't
                        really
                        > easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at
                        home since
                        > 99% of them are behind a firewall router. We could use UPNP from
                        the client
                        > and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and
                        others) but
                        > it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My
                        bellsouth
                        > modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.
                        >
                        > I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet, seems
                        like
                        > that might be easy / good.
                        >
                        >
                        > Alan
                        >
                        > On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Alan,
                        > >
                        > > A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS
                        feeds
                        > > that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                        > > are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                        > > time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                        > > expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.
                        > >
                        > > In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for
                        some
                        > > simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active
                        throughout
                        > > the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                        > > thought this might be something that is developed over the next
                        few
                        > > years.
                        > >
                        > > The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                        > > difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent
                        over
                        > > the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might
                        require
                        > > some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.
                        > >
                        > > If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts,
                        you
                        > > could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol,
                        this
                        > > could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system
                        would be
                        > > responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.
                        > >
                        > > As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                        > > that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with
                        a
                        > > packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event
                        codes if
                        > > those events are active.
                        > >
                        > > These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                        > > packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU
                        and
                        > > WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                        > > packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client
                        side.
                        > >
                        > > On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                        > > sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                        > > begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                        > > reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information
                        (based
                        > > on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                        > > actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.
                        > >
                        > > If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                        > > applications could be developed to take advantage of such a
                        system.
                        > > You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar),
                        or
                        > > integration with existing appications (weather apps, home
                        automation
                        > > systems, email and pager alert systems).
                        > >
                        > > So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put
                        together
                        > > easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream
                        that
                        > > contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream),
                        and
                        > > a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                        > > efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.
                        > >
                        > > ---
                        > >
                        > > Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:
                        > >
                        > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding
                        > >
                        > > Here are the Internet feeds that I found.
                        > >
                        > > 1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is
                        available to
                        > > the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the
                        protocol.
                        > > It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways,
                        satellite,
                        > > VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                        > > mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                        > > understand how to process the protocol, none are free.
                        > >
                        > > 2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                        > > controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                        > > Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                        > > might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                        > > might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the
                        wire
                        > > but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.
                        > >
                        > > 3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                        > > communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-
                        real
                        > > time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by
                        a
                        > > commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-
                        band.
                        > > It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications
                        within
                        > > the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                        > > and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations,
                        TV,
                        > > etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather
                        services.
                        > >
                        > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                        40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > > "Alan Steremberg"
                        > > <alans@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                        > > trigger with
                        > > > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos
                        > > people about
                        > > > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really
                        understand
                        > > the
                        > > > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                        > > automatically
                        > > > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                        > > >
                        > > > Alan
                        > > >
                        > > > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                        > > Emergency
                        > > > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during
                        local
                        > > > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                        > > telephone company,
                        > > > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                        > > everyone has a
                        > > > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal
                        > > solution. Of
                        > > > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this
                        > > service.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > -Mark
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > > *From:*
                        wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                        40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
                        > > > > wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                        40yahoogroups.com>]
                        > > *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software
                        > >
                        > > > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                        > > > > *To:* wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                        40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through
                        central
                        > > Florida in
                        > > > > the middle of the night.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados
                        that
                        > > swept
                        > > > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least
                        > > one was
                        > > > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept
                        through
                        > > the
                        > > > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite
                        > > spots in
                        > > > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios
                        to
                        > > wake
                        > > > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                        > > running. I
                        > > > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
                        > > guessing
                        > > > > that they were.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the
                        desktop.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could
                        > > still get
                        > > > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                        > > > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > Alan Steremberg
                        > > > Weather Underground
                        > > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                        > > > http://www.wunderground.com
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Alan Steremberg
                        > Weather Underground
                        > 415-543-5022 x 103
                        > http://www.wunderground.com
                        >
                      • wuhu_software
                        Mark, Most of the people I know that have Broadband leave their computers on 24/7. I tried breaking my girlfriend of the habbit, she refuses to power it down
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                          Mark,

                          Most of the people I know that have Broadband leave their computers
                          on 24/7. I tried breaking my girlfriend of the habbit, she refuses to
                          power it down at night.

                          If you are one of those people that always shuts down at night, if
                          you know that you have a weather application that might alert you
                          when a tornado is on the ground because bad weather might be
                          approaching, that might be an incentive to leave it on.

                          In the future, it seems to me that most homes will have a central
                          computer that will be running 24x7. That is the case already for many
                          people.

                          I like the telephone scheme as well. The distinctive ring feature
                          offered by some carriers seems like an ideal way to do this. It seems
                          that there must be issues with investment or infrastructure otherwise
                          communities would have already done it.

                          Or perhaps it is a patent issue...

                          http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050013418.html


                          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wyman" <mark@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > It would be all fine and dandy if everyone left their computers
                          running. The
                          > problem is most people turn it on to check Email, do a few things,
                          and turn
                          > it off again. People like us who have weather stations and PC
                          enthusiasts
                          > are about the only ones who do leave things running. Not to mention
                          if I
                          > know I will have thunderstorms, I yank all cables to the PC. I
                          still think
                          > phone alerts are very practical as the phone service is usually
                          last to go
                          > with land-lines. The tough part would be how to regulate when an
                          alert event
                          > was to occur, when a storm is right on the doorstep, or still 15
                          minutes
                          > away. Always the problem when dealing with people who will be
                          ticked off
                          > when they are awoken in the night and then the storm fizzles. They
                          unplug
                          > the phone and go back to sleep.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -Mark
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan
                          Steremberg
                          > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:06 PM
                          > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Tornados sweep through
                          central
                          > Florida in the middle of the night.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for
                          by zipcode
                          > ($10/year or free to weather station owners).
                          >
                          > Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the tray,
                          but I
                          > don't think it is quite what we want.
                          >
                          > We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to deliver
                          the
                          > alerts, and the small client application to start playing the local
                          NWS
                          > weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could
                          > optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).
                          >
                          > If someone wants to build the client application, we will be happy
                          to do the
                          > heavy lifting in the back end.
                          >
                          > Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that much
                          overhead
                          > if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't
                          really
                          > easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at
                          home since
                          > 99% of them are behind a firewall router. We could use UPNP from
                          the client
                          > and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and
                          others) but
                          > it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My
                          bellsouth
                          > modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.
                          >
                          > I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet, seems
                          like
                          > that might be easy / good.
                          >
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >
                          > On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@ <mailto:wuhu_software@...>
                          > yahoo.com> wrote:
                          >
                          > Alan,
                          >
                          > A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS
                          feeds
                          > that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                          > are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                          > time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                          > expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.
                          >
                          > In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for
                          some
                          > simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active throughout
                          > the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                          > thought this might be something that is developed over the next few
                          > years.
                          >
                          > The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                          > difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent
                          over
                          > the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might require
                          > some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.
                          >
                          > If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts, you
                          > could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol, this
                          > could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system would
                          be
                          > responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.
                          >
                          > As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                          > that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with a
                          > packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event codes
                          if
                          > those events are active.
                          >
                          > These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                          > packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU
                          and
                          > WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                          > packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client side.
                          >
                          > On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                          > sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                          > begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                          > reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information (based
                          > on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                          > actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.
                          >
                          > If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                          > applications could be developed to take advantage of such a system.
                          > You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar),
                          or
                          > integration with existing appications (weather apps, home
                          automation
                          > systems, email and pager alert systems).
                          >
                          > So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put together
                          > easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream
                          that
                          > contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream),
                          and
                          > a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                          > efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.
                          >
                          > ---
                          >
                          > Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia
                          > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding>
                          > .org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding
                          >
                          > Here are the Internet feeds that I found.
                          >
                          > 1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is available
                          to
                          > the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the
                          protocol.
                          > It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways,
                          satellite,
                          > VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                          > mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                          > understand how to process the protocol, none are free.
                          >
                          > 2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                          > controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                          > Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                          > might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                          > might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the wire
                          > but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.
                          >
                          > 3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                          > communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-
                          real
                          > time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by a
                          > commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-
                          band.
                          > It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications
                          within
                          > the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                          > and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations,
                          TV,
                          > etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather services.
                          >
                          > --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                          > <alans@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                          > trigger with
                          > > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos
                          > people about
                          > > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really
                          understand
                          > the
                          > > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                          > automatically
                          > > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                          > >
                          > > Alan
                          > >
                          > > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                          > Emergency
                          > > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during
                          local
                          > > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                          > telephone company,
                          > > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                          > everyone has a
                          > > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal
                          > solution. Of
                          > > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this
                          > service.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > -Mark
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ------------------------------
                          > > >
                          > > > *From:* wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                          40yahoogroups.com>
                          > group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                          > > > wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > group@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software
                          >
                          >
                          > > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                          > > > *To:* wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                          40yahoogroups.com>
                          > group@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central
                          > Florida in
                          > > > the middle of the night.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados
                          that
                          > swept
                          > > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least
                          > one was
                          > > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through
                          > the
                          > > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                          > > >
                          > > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite
                          > spots in
                          > > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                          > > >
                          > > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to
                          > wake
                          > > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                          > > >
                          > > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                          > running. I
                          > > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
                          > guessing
                          > > > that they were.
                          > > >
                          > > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.
                          > > >
                          > > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could
                          > still get
                          > > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                          > > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > --
                          > > Alan Steremberg
                          > > Weather Underground
                          > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                          > > http://www.wundergr <http://www.wunderground.com> ound.com
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Alan Steremberg
                          > Weather Underground
                          > 415-543-5022 x 103
                          > http://www.wundergr <http://www.wunderground.com> ound.com
                          >
                        • Mark Wyman
                          Interesting, this would be a nice piece of information to place in the XML dial program. The client periodically asks for an update from the host server based
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007

                            Interesting, this would be a nice piece of information to place in the XML dial program. The client periodically asks for an update from the host server based on timing information in the XML file. The timing information can be modified by the server to dynamically speed up reports during severe weather outbreaks. Then there could be special fields in the XML for web links, severity level, and what to do about it. For example launch a sound player for the live feed, play an alarm sound, automatically pop open some windows with direct information, etc.

                             

                            Having developed a few sockets programs in the past has resulted in mixed emotions about the viability of such utilities unless doing very data-intensive streams which requires that sort of effort (like the live audio streams). Either that or you want to keep the data proprietary. Firewalls are the #1 nemesis, #2 is client compatibility. It becomes difficult to have multiple-platform software on custom socket protocols. You can’t leave the Mac users out! (Well, I know a few Windows guys that would argue that point). If XML is part of rapid-fire requests, the additional specialized fields can do a heck of a lot for you as long as the client program is aware of them. For example additional fields would be something like:

                             

                            <pickupRate>5</pickupRate>
                            <wathces>Tornado Watch</watches>
                            <watchLink>http://watchlink.com</watchLink>
                            <warnings>Severe Thunderstorm Warning</warnings>
                            <warningLink>http://whatever.com</warningLink>
                            <severityLevel>9</severityLevel>
                            <playAlarm>True</playAlarm>
                            <playLiveFeed>True</playLiveFeed>
                            <liveFeedLink>http://whatever.com/liveFeed</liveFeedLink>

                             

                            p.s. Note the field formatting ;-)

                             

                            XML defines that these do not always need to be present in the file, so during boring days, the data does not need to be transmitted to save overhead. The key would be to have the pickup rate vary according to severity level (10 being a nuclear bomb is about to detonate under your bed).

                             

                            Then this is a documentable method that Perl, Java, .NET etc can all access for web interfaces or utilities without writing custom software except for the live audio stream player.

                             

                            Just some ideas.

                             

                            -Mark Wyman

                             


                            From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of wuhu_software
                            Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:31 PM
                            To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

                             

                            Alan,

                            I would be interested in developing an application for the tray.

                            Let me know when you guys have a protocol/scheme to work with.

                            I can throw applications together pretty quickly.

                            Thanks.

                            --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                            <alans@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Hi,
                            >
                            > We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for
                            by zipcode
                            > ($10/year or free to weather station owners).
                            >
                            > Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the tray,
                            but I
                            > don't think it is quite what we want.
                            >
                            > We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to deliver
                            the
                            > alerts, and the small client application to start playing the local
                            NWS
                            > weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could
                            > optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).
                            >
                            > If someone wants to build the client application, we will be happy
                            to do the
                            > heavy lifting in the back end.
                            >
                            > Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that much
                            overhead
                            > if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't
                            really
                            > easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at
                            home since
                            > 99% of them are behind a firewall router. We could use UPNP from
                            the client
                            > and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and
                            others) but
                            > it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My
                            bellsouth
                            > modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.
                            >
                            > I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet, seems
                            like
                            > that might be easy / good.
                            >
                            >
                            > Alan
                            >
                            > On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@ ...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Alan,
                            > >
                            > > A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS
                            feeds
                            > > that are available to the general public. I found three feeds that
                            > > are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a one
                            > > time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it is
                            > > expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed to.
                            > >
                            > > In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for
                            some
                            > > simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active
                            throughout
                            > > the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                            > > thought this might be something that is developed over the next
                            few
                            > > years.
                            > >
                            > > The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it is
                            > > difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent
                            over
                            > > the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might
                            require
                            > > some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.
                            > >
                            > > If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts,
                            you
                            > > could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol,
                            this
                            > > could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system
                            would be
                            > > responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.
                            > >
                            > > As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll packet
                            > > that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond with
                            a
                            > > packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event
                            codes if
                            > > those events are active.
                            > >
                            > > These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                            > > packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with WU
                            and
                            > > WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple watchdog
                            > > packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client
                            side.
                            > >
                            > > On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU and
                            > > sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs to
                            > > begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                            > > reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information
                            (based
                            > > on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                            > > actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.
                            > >
                            > > If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                            > > applications could be developed to take advantage of such a
                            system.
                            > > You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the toolbar),
                            or
                            > > integration with existing appications (weather apps, home
                            automation
                            > > systems, email and pager alert systems).
                            > >
                            > > So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put
                            together
                            > > easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream
                            that
                            > > contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the stream),
                            and
                            > > a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                            > > efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.
                            > >
                            > > ---
                            > >
                            > > Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:
                            > >
                            > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Specific_ Area_Message_ Encoding
                            > >
                            > > Here are the Internet feeds that I found.
                            > >
                            > > 1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is
                            available to
                            > > the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the
                            protocol.
                            > > It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways,
                            satellite,
                            > > VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and graphics
                            > > mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                            > > understand how to process the protocol, none are free.
                            > >
                            > > 2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                            > > controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration fee.
                            > > Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                            > > might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure. This
                            > > might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the
                            wire
                            > > but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.
                            > >
                            > > 3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                            > > communication of NOAA environmental data and information in near-
                            real
                            > > time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented by
                            a
                            > > commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-
                            band.
                            > > It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications
                            within
                            > > the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts, warnings
                            > > and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio stations,
                            TV,
                            > > etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather
                            services.
                            > >
                            > > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com<wuhu_software_ group%
                            40yahoogroups. com>,
                            > > "Alan Steremberg"
                            > > <alans@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                            > > trigger with
                            > > > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos
                            > > people about
                            > > > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really
                            understand
                            > > the
                            > > > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                            > > automatically
                            > > > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                            > > >
                            > > > Alan
                            > > >
                            > > > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                            > > Emergency
                            > > > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during
                            local
                            > > > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                            > > telephone company,
                            > > > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these
                            days
                            > > everyone has a
                            > > > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an
                            ideal
                            > > solution. Of
                            > > > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for
                            this
                            > > service.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -Mark
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ------------ --------- ---------
                            > > > >
                            > > > > *From:*
                            wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com<wuhu_software_ group%
                            40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:
                            > > > > wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com<wuhu_software_ group%
                            40yahoogroups. com>]
                            > > *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software
                            > >
                            > > > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                            > > > > *To:* wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com<wuhu_software_ group%
                            40yahoogroups. com>
                            > > > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_ group] Tornados sweep
                            through
                            central
                            > > Florida
                            in
                            > > > > the middle of the night.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I was just watching the news this morning about the
                            tornados
                            that
                            > > swept
                            > > > > through central Florida .
                            The current estimate is that at least
                            > > one was
                            > > > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept
                            through
                            > > the
                            > > > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my
                            favorite
                            > > spots in
                            > > > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather
                            radios
                            to
                            > > wake
                            > > > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in
                            w:st="on"> Florida .
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                            > > running. I
                            > > > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I
                            am
                            > > guessing
                            > > > > that they were.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the
                            desktop.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio
                            could
                            > > still get
                            > > > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or
                            even
                            > > > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > > Alan Steremberg
                            > > > Weather Underground
                            > > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                            > > > http://www.wundergr ound.com
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Alan Steremberg
                            > Weather Underground
                            > 415-543-5022 x 103
                            > http://www.wundergr ound.com
                            >

                          • wuhu_software
                            Mark, Not sure if you are aware of the CAP alerting protocol. It is currently supported at the state level although I do not believe it is broken down to the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                              Mark,

                              Not sure if you are aware of the CAP alerting protocol. It is
                              currently supported at the state level although I do not believe it
                              is broken down to the county level.

                              Here is an entry at Wikipedia about CAP:

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Alerting_Protocol

                              Here are the state links at the NWS:

                              http://www.weather.gov/alerts/

                              The problem that I see with CAP or any other XML based scheme is that
                              it would require large amounts of bandwidth to pull down these files
                              say once per minute or two if thousands of computers, or even
                              millions pull down these files constantly.

                              What seems to be missing is some Internet based, lightweight polling
                              or event delivery scheme where only minimal information is
                              sent/received to indicate an event has occurred that matches what the
                              subscriber would like to monitor.

                              SAME alerts seem to fit the bill (simple FIP codes and event codes).
                              When SAME alerts are transmitted over radio, the weather radios
                              decode these SAME alerts and compare the user defined configuration
                              to see if there is a match. If there is a match, it simply turns on
                              the audio for the NWS radio (it might beep as well).

                              I originally thought that UDP would be ideal for this type of
                              notifications. The client could monitor the host for connectivity so
                              that packet loss would not be a concern. However as Alan stated, the
                              UDP scheme would probably not work well for 99% of the computers out
                              there due to router/firewall problems.

                              If we could use sockets (TCP) to quickly poll for data, that would be
                              fine. I am not really sure how much overhead is involved with opening
                              and closing sockets on a large scale, but I am sure we could find out.

                              Assuming you had a mechanism to be notified of SAME type events, a
                              program could then go to the NWS site and pull down the XML file (or
                              monitor it for changes) to get the full text description of what
                              happened. Unfortunatly since the XML files would not necessarily be
                              in sync with the wire services, the scheme may devolve in to polling
                              XML files again. It seems only the NWS would know when the XML files
                              are being updated, perhaps the delay would be unacceptable for
                              alerting, I do not know.

                              There are already a few gizmos out there that monitor the NWS XML
                              files although they do not seem to be wide spread. Example:

                              http://www.widgetgallery.com/view.php?widget=36983


                              --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wyman" <mark@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Interesting, this would be a nice piece of information to place in
                              the XML
                              > dial program. The client periodically asks for an update from the
                              host
                              > server based on timing information in the XML file. The timing
                              information
                              > can be modified by the server to dynamically speed up reports
                              during severe
                              > weather outbreaks. Then there could be special fields in the XML
                              for web
                              > links, severity level, and what to do about it. For example launch
                              a sound
                              > player for the live feed, play an alarm sound, automatically pop
                              open some
                              > windows with direct information, etc.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Having developed a few sockets programs in the past has resulted in
                              mixed
                              > emotions about the viability of such utilities unless doing very
                              > data-intensive streams which requires that sort of effort (like the
                              live
                              > audio streams). Either that or you want to keep the data
                              proprietary.
                              > Firewalls are the #1 nemesis, #2 is client compatibility. It becomes
                              > difficult to have multiple-platform software on custom socket
                              protocols. You
                              > can't leave the Mac users out! (Well, I know a few Windows guys
                              that would
                              > argue that point). If XML is part of rapid-fire requests, the
                              additional
                              > specialized fields can do a heck of a lot for you as long as the
                              client
                              > program is aware of them. For example additional fields would be
                              something
                              > like:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > <pickupRate>5</pickupRate>
                              > <wathces>Tornado Watch</watches>
                              > <watchLink>http://watchlink.com</watchLink>
                              > <warnings>Severe Thunderstorm Warning</warnings>
                              > <warningLink>http://whatever.com</warningLink>
                              > <severityLevel>9</severityLevel>
                              > <playAlarm>True</playAlarm>
                              > <playLiveFeed>True</playLiveFeed>
                              > <liveFeedLink>http://whatever.com/liveFeed</liveFeedLink>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > p.s. Note the field formatting ;-)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > XML defines that these do not always need to be present in the
                              file, so
                              > during boring days, the data does not need to be transmitted to save
                              > overhead. The key would be to have the pickup rate vary according to
                              > severity level (10 being a nuclear bomb is about to detonate under
                              your
                              > bed).
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Then this is a documentable method that Perl, Java, .NET etc can
                              all access
                              > for web interfaces or utilities without writing custom software
                              except for
                              > the live audio stream player.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Just some ideas.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -Mark Wyman
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              wuhu_software
                              > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:31 PM
                              > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Tornados sweep through central
                              Florida in
                              > the middle of the night.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Alan,
                              >
                              > I would be interested in developing an application for the tray.
                              >
                              > Let me know when you guys have a protocol/scheme to work with.
                              >
                              > I can throw applications together pretty quickly.
                              >
                              > Thanks.
                              >
                              > --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                              > <alans@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi,
                              > >
                              > > We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for
                              > by zipcode
                              > > ($10/year or free to weather station owners).
                              > >
                              > > Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the
                              tray,
                              > but I
                              > > don't think it is quite what we want.
                              > >
                              > > We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to
                              deliver
                              > the
                              > > alerts, and the small client application to start playing the
                              local
                              > NWS
                              > > weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could
                              > > optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).
                              > >
                              > > If someone wants to build the client application, we will be
                              happy
                              > to do the
                              > > heavy lifting in the back end.
                              > >
                              > > Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that
                              much
                              > overhead
                              > > if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't
                              > really
                              > > easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at
                              > home since
                              > > 99% of them are behind a firewall router. We could use UPNP from
                              > the client
                              > > and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and
                              > others) but
                              > > it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My
                              > bellsouth
                              > > modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.
                              > >
                              > > I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet,
                              seems
                              > like
                              > > that might be easy / good.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Alan
                              > >
                              > > On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Alan,
                              > > >
                              > > > A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS
                              > feeds
                              > > > that are available to the general public. I found three feeds
                              that
                              > > > are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a
                              one
                              > > > time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it
                              is
                              > > > expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed
                              to.
                              > > >
                              > > > In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for
                              > some
                              > > > simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active
                              > throughout
                              > > > the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                              > > > thought this might be something that is developed over the next
                              > few
                              > > > years.
                              > > >
                              > > > The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it
                              is
                              > > > difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent
                              > over
                              > > > the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might
                              > require
                              > > > some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.
                              > > >
                              > > > If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts,
                              > you
                              > > > could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol,
                              > this
                              > > > could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system
                              > would be
                              > > > responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.
                              > > >
                              > > > As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll
                              packet
                              > > > that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond
                              with
                              > a
                              > > > packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event
                              > codes if
                              > > > those events are active.
                              > > >
                              > > > These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                              > > > packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with
                              WU
                              > and
                              > > > WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple
                              watchdog
                              > > > packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client
                              > side.
                              > > >
                              > > > On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU
                              and
                              > > > sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs
                              to
                              > > > begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                              > > > reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information
                              > (based
                              > > > on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                              > > > actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.
                              > > >
                              > > > If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                              > > > applications could be developed to take advantage of such a
                              > system.
                              > > > You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the
                              toolbar),
                              > or
                              > > > integration with existing appications (weather apps, home
                              > automation
                              > > > systems, email and pager alert systems).
                              > > >
                              > > > So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put
                              > together
                              > > > easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream
                              > that
                              > > > contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the
                              stream),
                              > and
                              > > > a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                              > > > efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.
                              > > >
                              > > > ---
                              > > >
                              > > > Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:
                              > > >
                              > > > http://en.wikipedia
                              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding>
                              > .org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding
                              > > >
                              > > > Here are the Internet feeds that I found.
                              > > >
                              > > > 1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is
                              > available to
                              > > > the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the
                              > protocol.
                              > > > It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways,
                              > satellite,
                              > > > VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and
                              graphics
                              > > > mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                              > > > understand how to process the protocol, none are free.
                              > > >
                              > > > 2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                              > > > controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration
                              fee.
                              > > > Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                              > > > might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure.
                              This
                              > > > might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the
                              > wire
                              > > > but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.
                              > > >
                              > > > 3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                              > > > communication of NOAA environmental data and information in
                              near-
                              > real
                              > > > time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented
                              by
                              > a
                              > > > commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-
                              > band.
                              > > > It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications
                              > within
                              > > > the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts,
                              warnings
                              > > > and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio
                              stations,
                              > TV,
                              > > > etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather
                              > services.
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                              40yahoogroups.com>
                              > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                              > 40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > > "Alan Steremberg"
                              > > > <alans@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                              > > > trigger with
                              > > > > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the
                              sonos
                              > > > people about
                              > > > > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really
                              > understand
                              > > > the
                              > > > > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                              > > > automatically
                              > > > > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Alan
                              > > > >
                              > > > > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                              > > > Emergency
                              > > > > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during
                              > local
                              > > > > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                              > > > telephone company,
                              > > > > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                              > > > everyone has a
                              > > > > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an
                              ideal
                              > > > solution. Of
                              > > > > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for
                              this
                              > > > service.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > -Mark
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > ------------------------------
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > *From:*
                              > wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                              > 40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
                              > > > > > wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                              40yahoogroups.com>
                              > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                              > 40yahoogroups.com>]
                              > > > *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software
                              > > >
                              > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                              > > > > > *To:* wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                              40yahoogroups.com>
                              > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                              > 40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through
                              > central
                              > > > Florida in
                              > > > > > the middle of the night.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I was just watching the news this morning about the
                              tornados
                              > that
                              > > > swept
                              > > > > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at
                              least
                              > > > one was
                              > > > > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept
                              > through
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my
                              favorite
                              > > > spots in
                              > > > > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather
                              radios
                              > to
                              > > > wake
                              > > > > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                              > > > running. I
                              > > > > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I
                              am
                              > > > guessing
                              > > > > > that they were.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the
                              > desktop.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio
                              could
                              > > > still get
                              > > > > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or
                              even
                              > > > > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --
                              > > > > Alan Steremberg
                              > > > > Weather Underground
                              > > > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                              > > > > http://www.wundergr <http://www.wunderground.com> ound.com
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > Alan Steremberg
                              > > Weather Underground
                              > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                              > > http://www.wundergr <http://www.wunderground.com> ound.com
                              > >
                              >
                            • Alan Steremberg
                              We have servers full of all the same data as the NWS servers (we usually get it quicker than they get it on the web). The data isn t a problem. It is the rest
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                                We have servers full of all the same data as the NWS servers (we usually get it quicker than they get it on the web). The data isn't a problem. It is the rest of the software that needs to be written in a scalable fashion so we don't poll huge XML files.

                                Alan

                                On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:

                                Mark,

                                Not sure if you are aware of the CAP alerting protocol. It is
                                currently supported at the state level although I do not believe it
                                is broken down to the county level.

                                Here is an entry at Wikipedia about CAP:

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Alerting_Protocol

                                Here are the state links at the NWS:

                                http://www.weather.gov/alerts/

                                The problem that I see with CAP or any other XML based scheme is that
                                it would require large amounts of bandwidth to pull down these files
                                say once per minute or two if thousands of computers, or even
                                millions pull down these files constantly.

                                What seems to be missing is some Internet based, lightweight polling
                                or event delivery scheme where only minimal information is
                                sent/received to indicate an event has occurred that matches what the
                                subscriber would like to monitor.

                                SAME alerts seem to fit the bill (simple FIP codes and event codes).
                                When SAME alerts are transmitted over radio, the weather radios
                                decode these SAME alerts and compare the user defined configuration
                                to see if there is a match. If there is a match, it simply turns on
                                the audio for the NWS radio (it might beep as well).

                                I originally thought that UDP would be ideal for this type of
                                notifications. The client could monitor the host for connectivity so
                                that packet loss would not be a concern. However as Alan stated, the
                                UDP scheme would probably not work well for 99% of the computers out
                                there due to router/firewall problems.

                                If we could use sockets (TCP) to quickly poll for data, that would be
                                fine. I am not really sure how much overhead is involved with opening
                                and closing sockets on a large scale, but I am sure we could find out.

                                Assuming you had a mechanism to be notified of SAME type events, a
                                program could then go to the NWS site and pull down the XML file (or
                                monitor it for changes) to get the full text description of what
                                happened. Unfortunatly since the XML files would not necessarily be
                                in sync with the wire services, the scheme may devolve in to polling
                                XML files again. It seems only the NWS would know when the XML files
                                are being updated, perhaps the delay would be unacceptable for
                                alerting, I do not know.

                                There are already a few gizmos out there that monitor the NWS XML
                                files although they do not seem to be wide spread. Example:

                                http://www.widgetgallery.com/view.php?widget=36983

                                --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wyman" <mark@...>


                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Interesting, this would be a nice piece of information to place in
                                the XML
                                > dial program. The client periodically asks for an update from the
                                host
                                > server based on timing information in the XML file. The timing
                                information
                                > can be modified by the server to dynamically speed up reports
                                during severe
                                > weather outbreaks. Then there could be special fields in the XML
                                for web
                                > links, severity level, and what to do about it. For example launch
                                a sound
                                > player for the live feed, play an alarm sound, automatically pop
                                open some
                                > windows with direct information, etc.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Having developed a few sockets programs in the past has resulted in
                                mixed
                                > emotions about the viability of such utilities unless doing very
                                > data-intensive streams which requires that sort of effort (like the
                                live
                                > audio streams). Either that or you want to keep the data
                                proprietary.
                                > Firewalls are the #1 nemesis, #2 is client compatibility. It becomes
                                > difficult to have multiple-platform software on custom socket
                                protocols. You
                                > can't leave the Mac users out! (Well, I know a few Windows guys
                                that would
                                > argue that point). If XML is part of rapid-fire requests, the
                                additional
                                > specialized fields can do a heck of a lot for you as long as the
                                client
                                > program is aware of them. For example additional fields would be
                                something
                                > like:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > <pickupRate>5</pickupRate>
                                > <wathces>Tornado Watch</watches>
                                > <watchLink>http://watchlink.com</watchLink>
                                > <warnings>Severe Thunderstorm Warning</warnings>
                                > <warningLink>http://whatever.com</warningLink>
                                > <severityLevel>9</severityLevel>
                                > <playAlarm>True</playAlarm>

                                > <playLiveFeed>True</playLiveFeed>
                                > <liveFeedLink>http://whatever.com/liveFeed</liveFeedLink>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > p.s. Note the field formatting ;-)
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > XML defines that these do not always need to be present in the
                                file, so
                                > during boring days, the data does not need to be transmitted to save
                                > overhead. The key would be to have the pickup rate vary according to
                                > severity level (10 being a nuclear bomb is about to detonate under
                                your
                                > bed).
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Then this is a documentable method that Perl, Java, .NET etc can
                                all access
                                > for web interfaces or utilities without writing custom software
                                except for
                                > the live audio stream player.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Just some ideas.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -Mark Wyman
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                                > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                wuhu_software
                                > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:31 PM
                                > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Tornados sweep through central
                                Florida in
                                > the middle of the night.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Alan,
                                >
                                > I would be interested in developing an application for the tray.
                                >
                                > Let me know when you guys have a protocol/scheme to work with.
                                >
                                > I can throw applications together pretty quickly.
                                >
                                > Thanks.
                                >
                                > --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogro ups.com>

                                > group@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Steremberg"
                                > <alans@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi,
                                > >
                                > > We have an email alert product right now that you can sign up for
                                > by zipcode
                                > > ($10/year or free to weather station owners).
                                > >
                                > > Ed at AmbientWeather has a desktop app that alerts you in the
                                tray,
                                > but I
                                > > don't think it is quite what we want.
                                > >
                                > > We have all the data, we are just missing a scalable way to
                                deliver
                                > the
                                > > alerts, and the small client application to start playing the
                                local
                                > NWS
                                > > weather feed, as well as putting up some alert data (plus it could
                                > > optionally run an external program that could fire off x-10, etc).
                                > >
                                > > If someone wants to build the client application, we will be
                                happy
                                > to do the
                                > > heavy lifting in the back end.
                                > >
                                > > Using UDP is tricky - it is unreliable (TCP doesn't have that
                                much
                                > overhead
                                > > if we implement it carefully with custom software) and we can't
                                > really
                                > > easily send UDP packets from wunderground to anyone's computer at
                                > home since
                                > > 99% of them are behind a firewall router. We could use UPNP from
                                > the client
                                > > and try to open a hole in the firewall (like MSN messenger and
                                > others) but
                                > > it doesn't work on all the routers I have.. Just some of them. My
                                > bellsouth
                                > > modem doesn't support it. my linksys router does.
                                > >
                                > > I was hoping to send alerts of IM but I haven't built it yet,
                                seems
                                > like
                                > > that might be easy / good.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Alan
                                > >
                                > > On 2/2/07, wuhu_software <wuhu_software@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Alan,
                                > > >
                                > > > A few weeks ago I was attempting to find various real-time NWS
                                > feeds
                                > > > that are available to the general public. I found three feeds
                                that
                                > > > are available to the pulic. One is free, the other requires a
                                one
                                > > > time $75 fee, and I am not sure about the 3rd (I heard that it
                                is
                                > > > expensive). I am not sure which feeds you guys are subscribed
                                to.
                                > > >
                                > > > In any case, I was exchanging emails with Art Kraus looking for
                                > some
                                > > > simple method to receive all SAME alerts that are active
                                > throughout
                                > > > the U.S. Apparently there is no such mechanism at the moment. He
                                > > > thought this might be something that is developed over the next
                                > few
                                > > > years.
                                > > >
                                > > > The SAME alerts may be fed over the EMWIN network, although it
                                is
                                > > > difficult to find protocol information. They might also be sent
                                > over
                                > > > the NWS Wire Service or NOAAPORT, I am not sure. That might
                                > require
                                > > > some parsing to decode the SAME alerts from the other data.
                                > > >
                                > > > If you guys at WU could parse the NWS streams to decode alerts,
                                > you
                                > > > could develop an efficient polling and dissemination protocol,
                                > this
                                > > > could open up many possibilities. The key to any such system
                                > would be
                                > > > responsiveness without wasting a ton of bandwidth.
                                > > >
                                > > > As an example, if a client application could send WU a poll
                                packet
                                > > > that contains a list of FIP and event codes, WU could repond
                                with
                                > a
                                > > > packet that describes a list of matching FIP codes and event
                                > codes if
                                > > > those events are active.
                                > > >
                                > > > These packets could be kept small and fast with the use of UDP
                                > > > packets. Perhaps the clients register themselves one time with
                                WU
                                > and
                                > > > WU will send out alerts when they become active. A simple
                                watchdog
                                > > > packet could be used to detect Internet failures on the client
                                > side.
                                > > >
                                > > > On the client side, once the client receives a packet from WU
                                and
                                > > > sees matching FIP and alert codes, that is all it really needs
                                to
                                > > > begin alerting operations. It could then perform audio alerting,
                                > > > reading and displaying the NWS XML based warning information
                                > (based
                                > > > on the active FIP code), and possibily take other user defined
                                > > > actions including prompting the user to stream live audio.
                                > > >
                                > > > If such a service were open to developers, any number of client
                                > > > applications could be developed to take advantage of such a
                                > system.
                                > > > You could have stand alone applications (perhaps on the
                                toolbar),
                                > or
                                > > > integration with existing appications (weather apps, home
                                > automation
                                > > > systems, email and pager alert systems).
                                > > >
                                > > > So basically, it seems that all of the pieces could be put
                                > together
                                > > > easily. The main problem seems to be finding a real-time stream
                                > that
                                > > > contains all SAME alerts (or that can be parsed from the
                                stream),
                                > and
                                > > > a central server to disseminate that data in real-time using an
                                > > > efficient mecahnism to deliver the encoded data.
                                > > >
                                > > > ---
                                > > >
                                > > > Here is a breakdown of the SAME alerts:
                                > > >
                                > > > http://en.wikipedia
                                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding>
                                > .org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding
                                > > >
                                > > > Here are the Internet feeds that I found.
                                > > >
                                > > > 1) Emergency Managers Weather Information Network. It is
                                > available to
                                > > > the public. I am still trying to dig up information on the
                                > protocol.
                                > > > It is not well documented. This data is sent several ways,
                                > satellite,
                                > > > VHF radio, and the Internet. This data contains text and
                                graphics
                                > > > mixed together. There are 3 software packages for sale that
                                > > > understand how to process the protocol, none are free.
                                > > >
                                > > > 2) NOAA Weather Wire Service. Although the stream of data is
                                > > > controlled by one company, there is one time $75 registration
                                fee.
                                > > > Since you can telnet in to it, I am assuming it is just text. It
                                > > > might be different using the satellite links, I am not sure.
                                This
                                > > > might be used to capture the events as they are put out on the
                                > wire
                                > > > but it may be more work as the alerts/warnings are not encoded.
                                > > >
                                > > > 3) The NOAAPORT broadcast system provides a one-way broadcast
                                > > > communication of NOAA environmental data and information in
                                near-
                                > real
                                > > > time to NOAA and external users. This broadcast is implemented
                                by
                                > a
                                > > > commercial provider of satellite communications utilizing the C-
                                > band.
                                > > > It's primary purpose is for providing internal communications
                                > within
                                > > > the National Weather Service and for providing forecasts,
                                warnings
                                > > > and other products to the mass media (newspapers, radio
                                stations,
                                > TV,
                                > > > etc.), emergency management agencies, and private weather
                                > services.
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%

                                40yahoogroups.com>
                                > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > "Alan Steremberg"
                                > > > <alans@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can
                                > > > trigger with
                                > > > > an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the
                                sonos
                                > > > people about
                                > > > > integrating it into their system, but they didn't really
                                > understand
                                > > > the
                                > > > > emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to
                                > > > automatically
                                > > > > switch from pretty music to weather radio.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Alan
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I always wondered about having telephones linked into the
                                > > > Emergency
                                > > > > > network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during
                                > local
                                > > > > > emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the
                                > > > telephone company,
                                > > > > > who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days
                                > > > everyone has a
                                > > > > > phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an
                                ideal
                                > > > solution. Of
                                > > > > > course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for
                                this
                                > > > service.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > -Mark
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ------------------------------
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > *From:*
                                > wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogro ups.com>
                                > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
                                > > > > > wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                                40yahoogroups.com>
                                > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>]
                                > > > *On Behalf Of *wuhu_software
                                > > >
                                > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                                > > > > > *To:* wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%
                                40yahoogroups.com>

                                > group@yahoogroups.com<wuhu_software_group%
                                > 40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > > > *Subject:* [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through
                                > central
                                > > > Florida in
                                > > > > > the middle of the night.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I was just watching the news this morning about the
                                tornados
                                > that
                                > > > swept
                                > > > > > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at
                                least
                                > > > one was
                                > > > > > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept
                                > through
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my
                                favorite
                                > > > spots in
                                > > > > > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather
                                radios
                                > to
                                > > > wake
                                > > > > > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and
                                > > > running. I
                                > > > > > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I
                                am
                                > > > guessing
                                > > > > > that they were.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the
                                > desktop.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio
                                could
                                > > > still get
                                > > > > > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or
                                even
                                > > > > > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --
                                > > > > Alan Steremberg
                                > > > > Weather Underground
                                > > > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                                > > > > http://www.wundergr < http://www.wunderground.com> ound.com
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > Alan Steremberg
                                > > Weather Underground
                                > > 415-543-5022 x 103
                                > > http://www.wundergr < http://www.wunderground.com> ound.com
                                > >
                                >




                                --
                                Alan Steremberg
                                Weather Underground
                                415-543-5022 x 103
                                http://www.wunderground.com
                              • Richard Ray, KI4PEQ
                                There is such as system in place in Okaloosa County, Florida. The system has the capacity for calling up to 1000 phones per minute with a pre-recorded message,
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 2, 2007
                                  There is such as system in place in Okaloosa County, Florida. The system has the capacity for calling up to 1000 phones per minute with a pre-recorded message, the phone numbers being selected by geographic area. The downside is the local phone company (Embarq) will have a system crash if the EM computer makes that many calls per minute on the phone system. So they have to slow it down.

                                  The local emergency management people strongly advise that the citizens of the county own and use NOAA weather radio. Apparently many residents of Central Florida got warning from their NOAA weather radios before the storms hit, and a greater loss of life was avoided.

                                  For obvious reasons, Floridians tend to be better prepared for weather emergencies than many other Americans.


                                  Richard L. Ray

                                  On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Alan Steremberg wrote:

                                  I think we need to make a desktop of flash widget that we can trigger with an alert and start the audio playing. I also spoke to the sonos people about integrating it into their system, but they didn't really understand the emergency aspect yet. ie: why people would want their radio to automatically switch from pretty music to weather radio.

                                  Alan

                                  On 2/2/07, Mark Wyman <mark@markwyman.com> wrote:

                                  I always wondered about having telephones linked into the Emergency network, so your phone would emit a specialized ring during local emergencies like this. It would be driven by law from the telephone company, who could target just the areas of concern. Since these days everyone has a phone, and not many have weather radios, it would be an ideal solution. Of course they would probably tack on another $2 a month for this service.

                                   

                                  -Mark

                                   

                                  From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroup s.com[mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of wuhu_software
                                  Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:35 AM
                                  To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Tornados sweep through central Florida in the middle of the night.

                                   

                                  I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that swept
                                  through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least one was
                                  an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
                                  area in the middle of the night (so the news says).

                                  Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots in
                                  Flordia, been there many times visting family).

                                  On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to wake
                                  people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.

                                  Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running. I
                                  am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am guessing
                                  that they were.

                                  It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.

                                  Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still get
                                  a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                                  activating alert devices (say X10 devices).






                                  --
                                  Alan Steremberg
                                  Weather Underground
                                  415-543-5022 x 103
                                  http://www.wunderground.com


                                • kc8nzj
                                  Go check out a program called Interwarn. www.interwarn.com This is a program you install that retrieves NWS products directly from the IWIN servers. You can
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Feb 3, 2007
                                    Go check out a program called Interwarn. www.interwarn.com This is a
                                    program you install that retrieves NWS products directly from the
                                    IWIN servers. You can add as many counties as you want from any area
                                    of the US. You can also select only the products you want to be
                                    informed about. WHen a product is issued a crawler will pop up on
                                    your monitor and the NOAA alert tone will sound. YOu can customize
                                    what alerts you want, and then select if you want to crawler, or
                                    alert tone, or neither. All the current active products are
                                    displayed in a very nice color coded window and can me clicked on to
                                    immediately show the NWS text. Also.... you can set it up to send
                                    alerts to an e-mail. I have my alerts get sent to my cell phone.
                                    Because I have a cheap phone it won't show the whole text but it will
                                    show what type of product was just issued and then I can simply
                                    access NOAA WX radio or get on the computer to find out what's up.

                                    When I lived in Cleveland, Ohio I was in charge of SKywarn for a
                                    period. We used this program to send pages out to all our spotters.
                                    We had in excess of 30 phones and e-mails loaded into the software
                                    and it worked flawlessly and was VERY reliable. We would usually get
                                    our products several seconds before local media. And when it comes
                                    to tornados, seconds save lives.

                                    I would invite everyone to download the software and take advantage
                                    of the free 30 day trial to play around. There is also a nice RADAR
                                    program but I haven't tried it. I use weather tap for my radar.
                                    ANother GREAT service. www.weathertap.com

                                    Mat KC8NZJ "Chase 6"
                                    South Florida
                                    www.stormnet.org
                                    http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?
                                    ID=KFLPORTS18



                                    --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
                                    <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I was just watching the news this morning about the tornados that
                                    swept
                                    > through central Florida. The current estimate is that at least one
                                    was
                                    > an F2 tornado. I guess 1988 was the last time one swept through the
                                    > area in the middle of the night (so the news says).
                                    >
                                    > Looks like a real mess over by New Smyrna (one of my favorite spots
                                    in
                                    > Flordia, been there many times visting family).
                                    >
                                    > On the news, they discussed the real need for weather radios to
                                    wake
                                    > people up in the middle of the night. Especially in Florida.
                                    >
                                    > Interestingly, the two Orlando WU audio streams are up and running.
                                    I
                                    > am not sure if they were up when the alerts went out, but I am
                                    guessing
                                    > that they were.
                                    >
                                    > It sure would be nice to have the WU SAME radios on the desktop.
                                    >
                                    > Even if the audio streams do go down, the virtual radio could still
                                    get
                                    > a users attention by playing alert sounds, alert text, or even
                                    > activating alert devices (say X10 devices).
                                    >
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