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Re: v214 Refresh - Rapidfire wind averaging tweak.

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  • wuhu_software
    Carl, I do agree that the tweaks should be used sparingly. If a user chooses to abuse a tweak, that is there own responsibility as with anything else in life.
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 30, 2007

      Carl,

      I do agree that the tweaks should be used sparingly. If a user chooses to abuse a tweak, that is there own responsibility as with anything else in life. I give the users the rope, they choose what do to with it.

      Such was the case with the wind direction tweak. I disagree that it should be used for any other purpose than siting problems that you can not address by physical adjustment (Say you made a mistake and can not climb up on a snow covered roof to adjust it 30 degrees).

      As far as this WU tweak goes, I was planning on implementing this feature anyway. If you look at the data stored when using rapid fire, it is a snap-shot in time of the last rapid-fire reading that was sent when WU decides to store the record. That being the case, the history is not really representative of the real data over time.  Averaging works better in this situation. Since wind is the most dynamic of the variables, I have chosen to average only the wind speed and wind direction at this time.

      As an example of rapid-fire storing wind direction data, if you look at your WU history for wind direction, it appears to be very random. You might have 30 samples that point North but if the one Southerly sample sneaks in at just the right time, South is stored.

      Also, because of the somewhat lacking La Crosse turbine design used to capture wind speeds, the readings frequently bounce between 0 and a non-zero value (depending on how fast the wind is moving). In areas of high wind speed, this is not an issue, for the rest of us, it is a problem. I often see my wind speeds bouncing between 0 and say 10-15 mph. It is not a noise issue, it is a wind turbine issue.

      If I did not have to drill another hole in the wall, I would have already purchased the Inspeed Vortex Wind Sensor  to get more accurate windspeed data (with WUHU support of course).  Before I run any more wires through the exterior wall, I am hoping to build some type of exterior access panel for cable Internet, RJ-11 wiring (for the La Crosse units), USB, and perhaps other optional connections.


      --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, CMOwen@... wrote:
      >
      > Actually, you're right that that was a pretty loose term I used, but you eloquently addressed exactly my point. Tweaks are not whim based. I know you put a lot of work in this program. You have done a fine job of providing a product that reports by the established standards. It is up to the users to use them wisely.
      >
      > I do not manage my personal weather station with quite the rigorous zeal (read: anal retentive) that I did running stations for AQM (read: I got paid before, now I do not), however I want a best that can be achieved weather network still. I want accuracy as a goal and not to make it what I think it should be.
      >
      > I just pull out the soap-box when it seems that some people want to tweak a bit so that their sky is just a shade of blue brighter or the wind a little less from the north. I guess I just need to believe that we all worry over our details like I do for the same end.
      >
      >
      > -------------- Original message from "wuhu_software" wuhu_software@...: --------------
      >
      >
      > Carl,
      > "Weather standards" is a pretty loose term.
      > The 2 minute wind speed and direction reporting is a CWOP standard although I am guessing that the vast majority of "official" stations that report hourly are probably using a different method.
      > Here is a snippet from the Weather Station Siting, Performance, and Data Quality Guide
      > Mean Wind Speed and Direction: 2-minute mean of speed and direction sampled before the observation valid time sampled from high-resolution data (minimum: 5 second instrument polling).
      >
      >
      > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, CMOwen@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Is that 2 min average a "weather standard"? I always worry about "tweaks" "to average their data a bit".
      > >
      > > Charles
      > >
      > >
      > > -------------- Original message from "wuhu_software" wuhu_software@: --------------
      > >
      > > All,
      > >
      > > I have added a new tweak that will average your wind speed and
      > > direction readings over the past 2 mins when reporting to WU rapidfire.
      > >
      > > Although this tweak is intended for those who are experiencing sporadic
      > > readings (NNW or N, at 0 mph) it can be used by anyone wanting to
      > > average their data a bit before sending.
      > >
      > > Download page:
      > >
      > > http://home.comcast.net/~wuhu_software/
      > >
      >

    • wuhu_software
      Charles, I appologize for calling you Carl. I am terrible with names! Thanks!
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 30, 2007
        Charles,

        I appologize for calling you Carl.

        I am terrible with names!

        Thanks!
      • Mike Frerkes
        You raise an excellent point regarding wind averages and the LaCrosse turbine anemometer. There is no doubt that LaCrosse has numerous inherent design flaws
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 30, 2007
          You raise an excellent point regarding wind averages and the LaCrosse
          turbine anemometer. There is no doubt that LaCrosse has numerous
          inherent design flaws with their anemometer, yet these flaws can be
          mitigated by using some of the WUHU tweaks. Its not like WUHU is
          compiling weather data, disregarding it entirely and cooking up
          better-looking data. Instead, it is gathering a group of relevant
          (but somewhat disjointed) readings and making sense of them. In a
          five minute span, a cabled 2310 will take about 38 readings. If 35
          of them are representative of the true weather picture and 3 are
          questionable results from LaCrosse's poor anemomter design -- why not
          use an average to show "the bigger picture"? It makes little sense
          to give equal consideration to a small group of data that is
          demonstrably erroneous.

          If these tweaks provide more consistent and reliable output from the
          weather station itself, I see that only as a positive for CWOP and
          anyone who uses it.

          --Mike Frerkes

          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
          <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Carl,
          >
          > I do agree that the tweaks should be used sparingly. If a user
          chooses
          > to abuse a tweak, that is there own responsibility as with anything
          else
          > in life. I give the users the rope, they choose what do to with it.
          >
          > Such was the case with the wind direction tweak. I disagree that it
          > should be used for any other purpose than siting problems that you
          can
          > not address by physical adjustment (Say you made a mistake and can
          not
          > climb up on a snow covered roof to adjust it 30 degrees).
          >
          > As far as this WU tweak goes, I was planning on implementing this
          > feature anyway. If you look at the data stored when using rapid
          fire, it
          > is a snap-shot in time of the last rapid-fire reading that was sent
          when
          > WU decides to store the record. That being the case, the history is
          not
          > really representative of the real data over time. Averaging works
          > better in this situation. Since wind is the most dynamic of the
          > variables, I have chosen to average only the wind speed and wind
          > direction at this time.
          >
          > As an example of rapid-fire storing wind direction data, if you
          look at
          > your WU history for wind direction, it appears to be very random.
          You
          > might have 30 samples that point North but if the one Southerly
          sample
          > sneaks in at just the right time, South is stored.
          >
          > Also, because of the somewhat lacking La Crosse turbine design used
          to
          > capture wind speeds, the readings frequently bounce between 0 and a
          > non-zero value (depending on how fast the wind is moving). In areas
          of
          > high wind speed, this is not an issue, for the rest of us, it is a
          > problem. I often see my wind speeds bouncing between 0 and say 10-15
          > mph. It is not a noise issue, it is a wind turbine issue.
          >
          > If I did not have to drill another hole in the wall, I would have
          > already purchased the Inspeed Vortex Wind Sensor
          > <http://www.inspeed.com/anemometers/Vortex_Wind_Sensor.asp> to get
          > more accurate windspeed data (with WUHU support of course). Before
          I
          > run any more wires through the exterior wall, I am hoping to build
          some
          > type of exterior access panel for cable Internet, RJ-11 wiring (for
          the
          > La Crosse units), USB, and perhaps other optional connections.
          >
          >
          > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, CMOwen@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Actually, you're right that that was a pretty loose term I used,
          but
          > you eloquently addressed exactly my point. Tweaks are not whim
          based. I
          > know you put a lot of work in this program. You have done a fine
          job of
          > providing a product that reports by the established standards. It
          is up
          > to the users to use them wisely.
          > >
          > > I do not manage my personal weather station with quite the
          rigorous
          > zeal (read: anal retentive) that I did running stations for AQM
          (read: I
          > got paid before, now I do not), however I want a best that can be
          > achieved weather network still. I want accuracy as a goal and not to
          > make it what I think it should be.
          > >
          > > I just pull out the soap-box when it seems that some people want
          to
          > tweak a bit so that their sky is just a shade of blue brighter or
          the
          > wind a little less from the north. I guess I just need to believe
          that
          > we all worry over our details like I do for the same end.
          > >
          > >
          > > -------------- Original message from "wuhu_software"
          > wuhu_software@: --------------
          > >
          > >
          > > Carl,
          > > "Weather standards" is a pretty loose term.
          > > The 2 minute wind speed and direction reporting is a CWOP standard
          > although I am guessing that the vast majority of "official" stations
          > that report hourly are probably using a different method.
          > > Here is a snippet from the Weather Station Siting, Performance,
          and
          > Data Quality Guide
          > > Mean Wind Speed and Direction: 2-minute mean of speed and
          direction
          > sampled before the observation valid time sampled from high-
          resolution
          > data (minimum: 5 second instrument polling).
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, CMOwen@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Is that 2 min average a "weather standard"? I always worry about
          > "tweaks" "to average their data a bit".
          > > >
          > > > Charles
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > -------------- Original message from "wuhu_software"
          wuhu_software@:
          > --------------
          > > >
          > > > All,
          > > >
          > > > I have added a new tweak that will average your wind speed and
          > > > direction readings over the past 2 mins when reporting to WU
          > rapidfire.
          > > >
          > > > Although this tweak is intended for those who are experiencing
          > sporadic
          > > > readings (NNW or N, at 0 mph) it can be used by anyone wanting
          to
          > > > average their data a bit before sending.
          > > >
          > > > Download page:
          > > >
          > > > http://home.comcast.net/~wuhu_software/
          > > >
          > >
          >
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