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Re: Hello again

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  • tradewinds63
    WUHU... At this point, I ll just wait till La Crosse gives a verdict pertaining to this model and the acceptable PC operation configurations. Could be that I
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 5, 2006
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      WUHU...

      At this point, I'll just wait till La Crosse gives a verdict
      pertaining to this model and the acceptable PC operation
      configurations.
      Could be that I simply have a defect in the consoles com hub...
      Unfortunately, La Crosse wasn't wise enough to write a Diagnostic
      utility and make it available on their website.
      Many technical hardware and software Corporations whine about the
      cost of customer service but fail to grasp the concept of the WWW and
      downloadable self reporting diagnostic utilities.

      La Crosse should use an EPROM chipset with flash support in one unit.
      That way, upgrades (from additional sensor sales) are merely a
      download/purchase away for the consumer. I don't get why these
      weather instrument companies insist on having more than one console
      model/OS. Make one console and one console only, sell it for cheap
      cheap cheap, then manufacture add-on sensors and the console owner
      could build a weather station however they like. Aren't we suppose to
      be thinking "Green" and about "recycling"? There's far more money to
      be had if one is wise enough to see where its hidden.

      Can't these folks see how the industry works? I've yet to see a smart
      console or company that offers a PC weather OS.

      YES WEATHER OS; they could simply write a PC program that uses
      wireless or port communications to communicate with the sensors that
      they manufacture from one old PC, they could simply give the software
      away for free and empower the software user to build the ultimate
      weather station from their available sensor products.

      How many old computers are in the grave yard store or in a garage or
      attic? Those computers are worthless with regard to modern all around
      computing tasks, however, they possess more than enough power to run
      a Linux based Weather OS. These weather station manufacturers have a
      gold mine right under their noses and can't see it. Today's
      mothballed computer offers such manufacturers the freedom to
      concentrate merely on perfecting a sensor.

      Are you LINUX kernel developers reading the above? Get to it!

      Sincerely,
      Mike


      --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
      <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Mike,
      >
      > Beware that all USB to serial adapters are not the same. We have
      tested
      > a couple adapters in the group and found several that did not work.
      Some
      > worked for 6-12 hours, then caused the machine to lock up or reboot.
      >
      > You will want to find an adapter that is based on the Prolific
      chipset.
      > It may be the chipset or the well written driver that allows the
      adapter
      > to work with the console and Heavyweather, we are not sure.
      >
      > Here is a posting on the subject:
      >
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wuhu_software_group/message/519
      > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wuhu_software_group/message/519>
      >
      >
      > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
      > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Well, as per a serial to USB adapter, it's going to take a bit
      more
      > > than just that, isn't it; less you know of a USB control driver
      that
      > > would repeat back as a com for WUHU , how would WUHU connect to
      USB?
      > > In the link is about what's needed to connect a La Crosse serial
      to a
      > > USB port and it comes with the appropriate software drivers. And,
      no,
      > > unfortunatly I don't have any around the house;p
      > >
      > > http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/usb_serial.htm
      > >
      > > I would like to see full "Rapid fire" data streaming into the
      network
      > > from the station. I'll see what La Crosse has to say and in the
      > > meanwhile, I keep sending the gimp packets.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Mike
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
      > > wuhu_software@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I would write La Crosse and tell them about the dashes in the
      > > display
      > > > and that they do not appear when running wireless.
      > > >
      > > > Do not worry too much about the failure. After a successful
      read of
      > > > the data, it will be uploaded. You should not see any noticeable
      > > gaps
      > > > at Weather Underground or CWOP.
      > > >
      > > > It would be interesting to see how the console would work with a
      > > > different PC. No serial to USB adapter available?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
      > > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust.
      > > > > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro
      > > > sensor
      > > > > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with my other
      > > > > computers because they don't support serial port connectors. I
      > > have
      > > > > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from the dead
      out
      > > in
      > > > > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had to clean
      > > (blow
      > > > > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the drive, load Xp
      > > from
      > > > > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise from the
      > > cooling
      > > > > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from hell.
      > > > >
      > > > > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation with the
      > > > > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to be....
      GRRRRRR.
      > > > > Ancient connectors!
      > > > >
      > > > > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone with
      wireless
      > > > mode
      > > > > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58 updates
      on
      > > > wuhu
      > > > > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors on the
      wuhu
      > > log
      > > > > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert from the
      > > console",
      > > > > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the console data
      just
      > > > > delaying the updates further.
      > > > > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be done to
      stop
      > > all
      > > > > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project all
      together?
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
      > > > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
      > > > > > Thank you for your replies.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations
      > > > > before
      > > > > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip sharing, of
      > > > which,
      > > > > I
      > > > > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit the nail on
      the
      > > > > head.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > It's now working; however, I dislike the necessary
      > > > configuration
      > > > > as
      > > > > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries in the
      > > > > Thermo/Hygro
      > > > > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the Thermo/Hygro at the
      > > > > console.
      > > > > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode at
      > > > > synchronization.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The reason why I tried that configuration was because I
      > > > decided
      > > > > to
      > > > > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma power
      supply
      > > > and
      > > > > the
      > > > > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I figured there
      was a
      > > > > power
      > > > > > issue somewhere, somehow...
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the outdoor data
      > > at
      > > > > the
      > > > > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data sending
      periods
      > > > and
      > > > > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust periods between
      > > data
      > > > > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data collection
      when
      > > > ever
      > > > > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8 second
      > > readings
      > > > or
      > > > > > quicker.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in Gold Bar at the
      > > > > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway through
      the
      > > > > Cascade
      > > > > > Range into the eastern portion of the state, nestled right
      > > > between
      > > > > two
      > > > > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves. We've been
      > > > > observing
      > > > > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within the past
      > > > couple
      > > > > > years and the weather about to come our way this time of
      year
      > > > will
      > > > > be
      > > > > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over fencing is
      typical
      > > > > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year. It's not
      > > uncommon
      > > > to
      > > > > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from its origin.
      > > I'd
      > > > > like
      > > > > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the polarization theory
      > > next.
      > > > > I'd
      > > > > > like to increase the data rate to what I was expecting. If
      that
      > > > > doesn't
      > > > > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never mentioned
      > > > within
      > > > > the
      > > > > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have now and had
      > > > they...
      > > > > I
      > > > > > would have bought something else. I read the manual on-line
      > > > before
      > > > > > buying the dang thing and you would think they would mention
      > > such
      > > > a
      > > > > > necessary configuration with a PC.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637. Looks nice
      > > and
      > > > > calm
      > > > > > out here now… lets see what transpires beginning next month
      > :)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks,
      > > > > > Mike
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Jim Kelleher
      Mike; I ve read the various posts regarding your problem with consistant wired communication between the thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 7, 2006
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        Mike;

        I've read the various posts regarding your problem
        with consistant wired communication between the
        thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
        completely hard-wired with no batteries in the outside
        unit but with batteries in the console for power
        outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
        method used with these systems is not very robust when
        dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not unshielded
        twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
        Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as would
        be found with serial communications such as RS-232. I
        would inspect the cable route used between the outside
        unit and the console for possible sources of EMI as
        this could be corrupting the data stream. It is my
        understanding that the dashes on the console indicate
        that the units are no longer synchonized. Hope this
        helps you out.

        Jim

        --- tradewinds63 <tradewinds63@...> wrote:

        > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a
        > bust.
        > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the
        > thermo/hygro sensor
        > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with
        > my other
        > computers because they don't support serial port
        > connectors. I have
        > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from
        > the dead out in
        > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had
        > to clean (blow
        > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the
        > drive, load Xp from
        > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise
        > from the cooling
        > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from
        > hell.
        >
        > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation
        > with the
        > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to
        > be.... GRRRRRR.
        > Ancient connectors!
        >
        > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone
        > with wireless mode
        > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58
        > updates on wuhu
        > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors
        > on the wuhu log
        > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert
        > from the console",
        > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the
        > console data just
        > delaying the updates further.
        > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be
        > done to stop all
        > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project
        > all together?
        >
        > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
        > "tradewinds63"
        > <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
        > > Thank you for your replies.
        > >
        > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your
        > recommendations
        > before
        > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip
        > sharing, of which,
        > I
        > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit
        > the nail on the
        > head.
        > >
        > > It's now working; however, I dislike the
        > necessary configuration
        > as
        > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries
        > in the
        > Thermo/Hygro
        > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the
        > Thermo/Hygro at the
        > console.
        > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode
        > at
        > synchronization.
        > >
        > > The reason why I tried that configuration was
        > because I decided
        > to
        > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma
        > power supply and
        > the
        > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I
        > figured there was a
        > power
        > > issue somewhere, somehow...
        > >
        > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the
        > outdoor data at
        > the
        > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data
        > sending periods and
        > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust
        > periods between data
        > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data
        > collection when ever
        > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8
        > second readings or
        > > quicker.
        > >
        > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in
        > Gold Bar at the
        > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway
        > through the
        > Cascade
        > > Range into the eastern portion of the state,
        > nestled right between
        > two
        > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves.
        > We've been
        > observing
        > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within
        > the past couple
        > > years and the weather about to come our way this
        > time of year will
        > be
        > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over
        > fencing is typical
        > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year.
        > It's not uncommon to
        > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from
        > its origin. I'd
        > like
        > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
        > >
        > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the
        > polarization theory next.
        > I'd
        > > like to increase the data rate to what I was
        > expecting. If that
        > doesn't
        > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never
        > mentioned within
        > the
        > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have
        > now and had they...
        > I
        > > would have bought something else. I read the
        > manual on-line before
        > > buying the dang thing and you would think they
        > would mention such a
        > > necessary configuration with a PC.
        > >
        > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637.
        > Looks nice and
        > calm
        > > out here now… lets see what transpires beginning
        > next month :)
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > > Mike
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • tradewinds63
        La Crosse support writes the following: Mike, This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 7, 2006
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          La Crosse support writes the following:
          Mike,

          This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting
          the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the PRESSURE and WIND buttons
          at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base. Waith 30 minutes
          and everything should be reading.

          Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?

          You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at most department or
          computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet.com and purchase the BAFO
          USB adapter they stock which has been tested and confirmed to work
          with our stations. It is important that your USB adapter be Windows
          Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead to stability problems.

          After installing the adapter check in device manager to confirm that
          Windows has recognized the adapter. If it does not show under ports
          (com & lpt) double-check that the driver has been installed. If the
          adapter has been recognized, right click on it, choose properties >
          port settings > advanced. Then be sure to select a com port number
          between one and four. After configuring the adapter, connect the
          weather station and open the Heavy Weather software. Data should begin
          to download within a minute or two.

          Best Regards,

          Diane

          La Crosse Technology - Customer Support

          2817 Losey Blvd South

          La Crosse WI 54601

          (888) 211-1923 Phone

          (608) 796-1020 Fax

          www.lacrossetechnology.com

          support@...

          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
          <jkelleher_gk6513@...> wrote:
          >
          > Mike;
          >
          > I've read the various posts regarding your problem
          > with consistant wired communication between the
          > thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
          > completely hard-wired with no batteries in the outside
          > unit but with batteries in the console for power
          > outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
          > method used with these systems is not very robust when
          > dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not unshielded
          > twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
          > Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as would
          > be found with serial communications such as RS-232. I
          > would inspect the cable route used between the outside
          > unit and the console for possible sources of EMI as
          > this could be corrupting the data stream. It is my
          > understanding that the dashes on the console indicate
          > that the units are no longer synchonized. Hope this
          > helps you out.
          >
          > Jim
          >
          > --- tradewinds63 <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a
          > > bust.
          > > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the
          > > thermo/hygro sensor
          > > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with
          > > my other
          > > computers because they don't support serial port
          > > connectors. I have
          > > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from
          > > the dead out in
          > > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had
          > > to clean (blow
          > > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the
          > > drive, load Xp from
          > > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise
          > > from the cooling
          > > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from
          > > hell.
          > >
          > > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation
          > > with the
          > > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to
          > > be.... GRRRRRR.
          > > Ancient connectors!
          > >
          > > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone
          > > with wireless mode
          > > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58
          > > updates on wuhu
          > > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors
          > > on the wuhu log
          > > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert
          > > from the console",
          > > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the
          > > console data just
          > > delaying the updates further.
          > > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be
          > > done to stop all
          > > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project
          > > all together?
          > >
          > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
          > > "tradewinds63"
          > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
          > > > Thank you for your replies.
          > > >
          > > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your
          > > recommendations
          > > before
          > > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip
          > > sharing, of which,
          > > I
          > > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit
          > > the nail on the
          > > head.
          > > >
          > > > It's now working; however, I dislike the
          > > necessary configuration
          > > as
          > > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries
          > > in the
          > > Thermo/Hygro
          > > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the
          > > Thermo/Hygro at the
          > > console.
          > > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode
          > > at
          > > synchronization.
          > > >
          > > > The reason why I tried that configuration was
          > > because I decided
          > > to
          > > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma
          > > power supply and
          > > the
          > > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I
          > > figured there was a
          > > power
          > > > issue somewhere, somehow...
          > > >
          > > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the
          > > outdoor data at
          > > the
          > > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data
          > > sending periods and
          > > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust
          > > periods between data
          > > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data
          > > collection when ever
          > > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8
          > > second readings or
          > > > quicker.
          > > >
          > > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in
          > > Gold Bar at the
          > > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway
          > > through the
          > > Cascade
          > > > Range into the eastern portion of the state,
          > > nestled right between
          > > two
          > > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves.
          > > We've been
          > > observing
          > > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within
          > > the past couple
          > > > years and the weather about to come our way this
          > > time of year will
          > > be
          > > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over
          > > fencing is typical
          > > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year.
          > > It's not uncommon to
          > > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from
          > > its origin. I'd
          > > like
          > > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
          > > >
          > > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the
          > > polarization theory next.
          > > I'd
          > > > like to increase the data rate to what I was
          > > expecting. If that
          > > doesn't
          > > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never
          > > mentioned within
          > > the
          > > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have
          > > now and had they...
          > > I
          > > > would have bought something else. I read the
          > > manual on-line before
          > > > buying the dang thing and you would think they
          > > would mention such a
          > > > necessary configuration with a PC.
          > > >
          > > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637.
          > > Looks nice and
          > > calm
          > > > out here now… lets see what transpires beginning
          > > next month :)
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > > Mike
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
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          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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          >
        • tradewinds63
          Negative, The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial connection was a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20 minutes) and the rest were
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 7, 2006
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            Negative,

            The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial connection was
            a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20 minutes) and the
            rest were garbage and after getting the 2 good packets the console
            outdoor data began to freeze up again.
            Without knowing the appropriate com configuration Parity, stop bits,
            fifo compatibility, etc, and not knowing the necessary BIOS support, I
            see no reason in attempting to hardwire to the Thermo/hygro unit, not
            unless - I want to spin my wheels the rest of the week.

            La Crosse dropped the ball with regard to providing these important
            details.

            I'd like to know what the 21 and 23 or 24 mean shortly after
            booting up the console, each appears to be a differing mode and
            contingent upon the connections to the console. But I see no reference
            in the manual of these console boot codes. It's another mystery,
            compliments of La Crosse and probably an important detail.

            I've never in 24 years of computer use encountered such a problem
            installing a device, from plotters, multi-meters, oscilloscopes,
            spectrometers, and a wide range of communication devices, etc. Of all
            the devices, this has been the most difficult and meager with regard
            to technical information, a real dead horse.

            Enough said, I'll simply use the radio transmission mode with the
            computer connection and give up on a hardwire connection.


            --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
            <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
            >
            > La Crosse support writes the following:
            > Mike,
            >
            > This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting
            > the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the PRESSURE and WIND buttons
            > at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base. Waith 30 minutes
            > and everything should be reading.
            >
            > Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?
            >
            > You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at most department or
            > computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet.com and purchase the BAFO
            > USB adapter they stock which has been tested and confirmed to work
            > with our stations. It is important that your USB adapter be Windows
            > Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead to stability
            problems.
            >
            > After installing the adapter check in device manager to confirm that
            > Windows has recognized the adapter. If it does not show under ports
            > (com & lpt) double-check that the driver has been installed. If the
            > adapter has been recognized, right click on it, choose properties >
            > port settings > advanced. Then be sure to select a com port number
            > between one and four. After configuring the adapter, connect the
            > weather station and open the Heavy Weather software. Data should begin
            > to download within a minute or two.
            >
            > Best Regards,
            >
            > Diane
            >
            > La Crosse Technology - Customer Support
            >
            > 2817 Losey Blvd South
            >
            > La Crosse WI 54601
            >
            > (888) 211-1923 Phone
            >
            > (608) 796-1020 Fax
            >
            > www.lacrossetechnology.com
            >
            > support@...
            >
            > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
            > <jkelleher_gk6513@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Mike;
            > >
            > > I've read the various posts regarding your problem
            > > with consistant wired communication between the
            > > thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
            > > completely hard-wired with no batteries in the outside
            > > unit but with batteries in the console for power
            > > outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
            > > method used with these systems is not very robust when
            > > dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not unshielded
            > > twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
            > > Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as would
            > > be found with serial communications such as RS-232. I
            > > would inspect the cable route used between the outside
            > > unit and the console for possible sources of EMI as
            > > this could be corrupting the data stream. It is my
            > > understanding that the dashes on the console indicate
            > > that the units are no longer synchonized. Hope this
            > > helps you out.
            > >
            > > Jim
            > >
            > > --- tradewinds63 <tradewinds63@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a
            > > > bust.
            > > > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the
            > > > thermo/hygro sensor
            > > > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with
            > > > my other
            > > > computers because they don't support serial port
            > > > connectors. I have
            > > > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from
            > > > the dead out in
            > > > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had
            > > > to clean (blow
            > > > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the
            > > > drive, load Xp from
            > > > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise
            > > > from the cooling
            > > > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from
            > > > hell.
            > > >
            > > > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation
            > > > with the
            > > > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to
            > > > be.... GRRRRRR.
            > > > Ancient connectors!
            > > >
            > > > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone
            > > > with wireless mode
            > > > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58
            > > > updates on wuhu
            > > > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors
            > > > on the wuhu log
            > > > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert
            > > > from the console",
            > > > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the
            > > > console data just
            > > > delaying the updates further.
            > > > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be
            > > > done to stop all
            > > > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project
            > > > all together?
            > > >
            > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > "tradewinds63"
            > > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
            > > > > Thank you for your replies.
            > > > >
            > > > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your
            > > > recommendations
            > > > before
            > > > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip
            > > > sharing, of which,
            > > > I
            > > > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit
            > > > the nail on the
            > > > head.
            > > > >
            > > > > It's now working; however, I dislike the
            > > > necessary configuration
            > > > as
            > > > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries
            > > > in the
            > > > Thermo/Hygro
            > > > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the
            > > > Thermo/Hygro at the
            > > > console.
            > > > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode
            > > > at
            > > > synchronization.
            > > > >
            > > > > The reason why I tried that configuration was
            > > > because I decided
            > > > to
            > > > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma
            > > > power supply and
            > > > the
            > > > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I
            > > > figured there was a
            > > > power
            > > > > issue somewhere, somehow...
            > > > >
            > > > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the
            > > > outdoor data at
            > > > the
            > > > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data
            > > > sending periods and
            > > > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust
            > > > periods between data
            > > > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data
            > > > collection when ever
            > > > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8
            > > > second readings or
            > > > > quicker.
            > > > >
            > > > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in
            > > > Gold Bar at the
            > > > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway
            > > > through the
            > > > Cascade
            > > > > Range into the eastern portion of the state,
            > > > nestled right between
            > > > two
            > > > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves.
            > > > We've been
            > > > observing
            > > > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within
            > > > the past couple
            > > > > years and the weather about to come our way this
            > > > time of year will
            > > > be
            > > > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over
            > > > fencing is typical
            > > > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year.
            > > > It's not uncommon to
            > > > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from
            > > > its origin. I'd
            > > > like
            > > > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
            > > > >
            > > > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the
            > > > polarization theory next.
            > > > I'd
            > > > > like to increase the data rate to what I was
            > > > expecting. If that
            > > > doesn't
            > > > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never
            > > > mentioned within
            > > > the
            > > > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have
            > > > now and had they...
            > > > I
            > > > > would have bought something else. I read the
            > > > manual on-line before
            > > > > buying the dang thing and you would think they
            > > > would mention such a
            > > > > necessary configuration with a PC.
            > > > >
            > > > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637.
            > > > Looks nice and
            > > > calm
            > > > > out here now… lets see what transpires beginning
            > > > next month :)
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks,
            > > > > Mike
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            >
          • David Williams
            Mike, Are you using the originally supplied cable marked for use with the console or did you make your own? I have my sensor about 40 feet away from my console
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 7, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Message
              Mike,
                 Are you using the originally supplied cable marked for use with the console or did you make your own? I have my sensor about 40 feet away from my console (a little longer than the 32 feet supplied - plus I needed to run it through the wall so not having the connector on it makes it easier). Now I have run telephone cable all through my house and for work for many years - and did the same here. I use category 5 cable (to allow for multiple phone lines typically) and made the standard connectors for telephone. When I plugged in the cable and performed the reset, I was getting no data (just dashes). So I started doing some investigating. The first thing I did was check for voltages. Well I found them, but not on the pins they were supposed to be on. So, wondering what was going on I took a close look at the supplied cable and found that it is basically a cross-over cable where each of the two standard pairs were swapped on the opposite end of the cable. Once I corrected one connector and performed the reset, voila I was getting data. It sure is nice to see the data come in every 6 seconds (although faster would be even better). This is likely useful for anyone wanting to extend the cable with custom made cables. They say in the book that if you want to extend the cables, to add on to the existing cable using a coupler. Well that will work fine since the cross-over is already performed in the original cable. This is a lot like a null modem adapter and is likely what it is doing.
               
              Let us know if this helps.
               
              David
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tradewinds63
              Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:14 PM
              To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La Crosse writes back)

              Negative,

              The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial connection was
              a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20 minutes) and the
              rest were garbage and after getting the 2 good packets the console
              outdoor data began to freeze up again.
              Without knowing the appropriate com configuration Parity, stop bits,
              fifo compatibility, etc, and not knowing the necessary BIOS support, I
              see no reason in attempting to hardwire to the Thermo/hygro unit, not
              unless - I want to spin my wheels the rest of the week.

              La Crosse dropped the ball with regard to providing these important
              details.

              I'd like to know what the 21 and 23 or 24 mean shortly after
              booting up the console, each appears to be a differing mode and
              contingent upon the connections to the console. But I see no reference
              in the manual of these console boot codes. It's another mystery,
              compliments of La Crosse and probably an important detail.

              I've never in 24 years of computer use encountered such a problem
              installing a device, from plotters, multi-meters, oscilloscopes,
              spectrometers, and a wide range of communication devices, etc. Of all
              the devices, this has been the most difficult and meager with regard
              to technical information, a real dead horse.

              Enough said, I'll simply use the radio transmission mode with the
              computer connection and give up on a hardwire connection.

              --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, "tradewinds63"
              <tradewinds63@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > La Crosse support writes the following:
              > Mike,
              >
              > This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting
              > the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the PRESSURE and WIND buttons
              > at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base. Waith 30 minutes
              > and everything should be reading.
              >
              > Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?
              >
              > You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at most department or
              > computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet. com and purchase the BAFO
              > USB adapter they stock which has been tested and confirmed to work
              > with our stations. It is important that your USB adapter be Windows
              > Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead to stability
              problems.
              >
              > After installing the adapter check in device manager to confirm that
              > Windows has recognized the adapter. If it does not show under ports
              > (com & lpt) double-check that the driver has been installed. If the
              > adapter has been recognized, right click on it, choose properties >
              > port settings > advanced. Then be sure to select a com port number
              > between one and four. After configuring the adapter, connect the
              > weather station and open the Heavy Weather software. Data should begin
              > to download within a minute or two.
              >
              > Best Regards,
              >
              > Diane
              >
              > La Crosse Technology - Customer Support
              >
              > 2817 Losey Blvd South
              >
              > La Crosse WI 54601
              >
              > (888) 211-1923 Phone
              >
              > (608) 796-1020 Fax
              >
              > www.lacrossetechnol ogy.com
              >
              > support@...
              >
              > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, Jim Kelleher
              > <jkelleher_gk6513@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > Mike;
              > >
              > > I've read the various posts regarding your problem
              > > with consistant wired communication between the
              > > thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
              > > completely hard-wired with no batteries in the outside
              > > unit but with batteries in the console for power
              > > outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
              > > method used with these systems is not very robust when
              > > dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not unshielded
              > > twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
              > > Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as would
              > > be found with serial communications such as RS-232. I
              > > would inspect the cable route used between the outside
              > > unit and the console for possible sources of EMI as
              > > this could be corrupting the data stream. It is my
              > > understanding that the dashes on the console indicate
              > > that the units are no longer synchonized. Hope this
              > > helps you out.
              > >
              > > Jim
              > >
              > > --- tradewinds63 <tradewinds63@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a
              > > > bust.
              > > > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the
              > > > thermo/hygro sensor
              > > > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with
              > > > my other
              > > > computers because they don't support serial port
              > > > connectors. I have
              > > > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from
              > > > the dead out in
              > > > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had
              > > > to clean (blow
              > > > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the
              > > > drive, load Xp from
              > > > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise
              > > > from the cooling
              > > > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from
              > > > hell.
              > > >
              > > > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation
              > > > with the
              > > > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to
              > > > be.... GRRRRRR.
              > > > Ancient connectors!
              > > >
              > > > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone
              > > > with wireless mode
              > > > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58
              > > > updates on wuhu
              > > > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors
              > > > on the wuhu log
              > > > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert
              > > > from the console",
              > > > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the
              > > > console data just
              > > > delaying the updates further.
              > > > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be
              > > > done to stop all
              > > > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project
              > > > all together?
              > > >
              > > > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com,
              > > > "tradewinds63"
              > > > <tradewinds63@ > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
              > > > > Thank you for your replies.
              > > > >
              > > > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your
              > > > recommendations
              > > > before
              > > > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip
              > > > sharing, of which,
              > > > I
              > > > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit
              > > > the nail on the
              > > > head.
              > > > >
              > > > > It's now working; however, I dislike the
              > > > necessary configuration
              > > > as
              > > > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries
              > > > in the
              > > > Thermo/Hygro
              > > > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the
              > > > Thermo/Hygro at the
              > > > console.
              > > > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode
              > > > at
              > > > synchronization.
              > > > >
              > > > > The reason why I tried that configuration was
              > > > because I decided
              > > > to
              > > > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma
              > > > power supply and
              > > > the
              > > > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I
              > > > figured there was a
              > > > power
              > > > > issue somewhere, somehow...
              > > > >
              > > > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the
              > > > outdoor data at
              > > > the
              > > > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data
              > > > sending periods and
              > > > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust
              > > > periods between data
              > > > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data
              > > > collection when ever
              > > > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8
              > > > second readings or
              > > > > quicker.
              > > > >
              > > > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in
              > > > Gold Bar at the
              > > > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway
              > > > through the
              > > > Cascade
              > > > > Range into the eastern portion of the state,
              > > > nestled right between
              > > > two
              > > > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves.
              > > > We've been
              > > > observing
              > > > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within
              > > > the past couple
              > > > > years and the weather about to come our way this
              > > > time of year will
              > > > be
              > > > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over
              > > > fencing is typical
              > > > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year.
              > > > It's not uncommon to
              > > > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from
              > > > its origin. I'd
              > > > like
              > > > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
              > > > >
              > > > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the
              > > > polarization theory next.
              > > > I'd
              > > > > like to increase the data rate to what I was
              > > > expecting. If that
              > > > doesn't
              > > > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never
              > > > mentioned within
              > > > the
              > > > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have
              > > > now and had they...
              > > > I
              > > > > would have bought something else. I read the
              > > > manual on-line before
              > > > > buying the dang thing and you would think they
              > > > would mention such a
              > > > > necessary configuration with a PC.
              > > > >
              > > > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637.
              > > > Looks nice and
              > > > calm
              > > > > out here now… lets see what transpires beginning
              > > > next month :)
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks,
              > > > > Mike
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > >
              >

            • Jim Kelleher
              David; The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 8, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                David;

                The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
                standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
                design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
                2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1). When you add a standard
                telephone coupler (which also has a cross-over
                configuration) and another patch cable, they cancel
                each other out and you end up where you started. With
                a standard analog device (phone, modem, fax machine)
                it generally doesn't matter if the cables are wired
                straight thru like a data patch cable (i.e. Ethernet)
                or with a cross-over (i.e. telephone). However, the WS
                23xx units are non-standard devices and, therefore,
                need to have the equivalent of one reversal in the
                segment between the console and the thermo/hygro unit.

                Jim

                --- David Williams <davecw@...> wrote:

                > Mike,
                > Are you using the originally supplied cable
                > marked for use with the
                > console or did you make your own? I have my sensor
                > about 40 feet away
                > from my console (a little longer than the 32 feet
                > supplied - plus I
                > needed to run it through the wall so not having the
                > connector on it
                > makes it easier). Now I have run telephone cable all
                > through my house
                > and for work for many years - and did the same here.
                > I use category 5
                > cable (to allow for multiple phone lines typically)
                > and made the
                > standard connectors for telephone. When I plugged in
                > the cable and
                > performed the reset, I was getting no data (just
                > dashes). So I started
                > doing some investigating. The first thing I did was
                > check for voltages.
                > Well I found them, but not on the pins they were
                > supposed to be on. So,
                > wondering what was going on I took a close look at
                > the supplied cable
                > and found that it is basically a cross-over cable
                > where each of the two
                > standard pairs were swapped on the opposite end of
                > the cable. Once I
                > corrected one connector and performed the reset,
                > voila I was getting
                > data. It sure is nice to see the data come in every
                > 6 seconds (although
                > faster would be even better). This is likely useful
                > for anyone wanting
                > to extend the cable with custom made cables. They
                > say in the book that
                > if you want to extend the cables, to add on to the
                > existing cable using
                > a coupler. Well that will work fine since the
                > cross-over is already
                > performed in the original cable. This is a lot like
                > a null modem adapter
                > and is likely what it is doing.
                >
                > Let us know if this helps.
                >
                > David
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of tradewinds63
                > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:14 PM
                > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La
                > Crosse writes back)
                >
                >
                >
                > Negative,
                >
                > The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial
                > connection was
                > a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20
                > minutes) and the
                > rest were garbage and after getting the 2 good
                > packets the console
                > outdoor data began to freeze up again.
                > Without knowing the appropriate com configuration
                > Parity, stop bits,
                > fifo compatibility, etc, and not knowing the
                > necessary BIOS support, I
                > see no reason in attempting to hardwire to the
                > Thermo/hygro unit, not
                > unless - I want to spin my wheels the rest of the
                > week.
                >
                > La Crosse dropped the ball with regard to providing
                > these important
                > details.
                >
                > I'd like to know what the 21 and 23 or 24 mean
                > shortly after
                > booting up the console, each appears to be a
                > differing mode and
                > contingent upon the connections to the console. But
                > I see no reference
                > in the manual of these console boot codes. It's
                > another mystery,
                > compliments of La Crosse and probably an important
                > detail.
                >
                > I've never in 24 years of computer use encountered
                > such a problem
                > installing a device, from plotters, multi-meters,
                > oscilloscopes,
                > spectrometers, and a wide range of communication
                > devices, etc. Of all
                > the devices, this has been the most difficult and
                > meager with regard
                > to technical information, a real dead horse.
                >
                > Enough said, I'll simply use the radio transmission
                > mode with the
                > computer connection and give up on a hardwire
                > connection.
                >
                > --- In wuhu_software_
                > <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                > group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
                > <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > La Crosse support writes the following:
                > > Mike,
                > >
                > > This unit will work hardwired and to the computer.
                > After connecting
                > > the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the
                > PRESSURE and WIND buttons
                > > at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base.
                > Waith 30 minutes
                > > and everything should be reading.
                > >
                > > Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?
                > >
                > > You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at
                > most department or
                > > computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet.com
                > and purchase the BAFO
                > > USB adapter they stock which has been tested and
                > confirmed to work
                > > with our stations. It is important that your USB
                > adapter be Windows
                > > Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead
                > to stability
                > problems.
                > >
                > > After installing the adapter check in device
                > manager to confirm that
                > > Windows has recognized the adapter. If it does not
                > show under ports
                > > (com & lpt) double-check that the driver has been
                > installed. If the
                > > adapter has been recognized, right click on it,
                > choose properties >
                > > port settings > advanced. Then be sure to select a
                > com port number
                > > between one and four. After configuring the
                > adapter, connect the
                > > weather station and open the Heavy Weather
                > software. Data should begin
                > > to download within a minute or two.
                > >
                > > Best Regards,
                > >
                > > Diane
                > >
                > > La Crosse Technology - Customer Support
                > >
                > > 2817 Losey Blvd South
                > >
                > > La Crosse WI 54601
                > >
                > > (888) 211-1923 Phone
                > >
                > > (608) 796-1020 Fax
                > >
                > > www.lacrossetechnology.com
                > >
                > > support@...
                > >
                > > --- In wuhu_software_
                > <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                > group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
                > > <jkelleher_gk6513@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Mike;
                > > >
                > > > I've read the various posts regarding your
                > problem
                > > > with consistant wired communication between the
                > > > thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a
                > WS-2310
                > > > completely hard-wired with no batteries in the
                > outside
                > > > unit but with batteries in the console for power
                > > > outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
                > > > method used with these systems is not very
                > robust when
                > > > dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not
                > unshielded
                > > > twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
                > > > Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as
                > would
                > > > be found with serial communications such as
                > RS-232. I
                > > > would inspect the cable route used between the
                > outside
                > > > unit and the console for possible sources of EMI
                > as
                >
                === message truncated ===


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              • tradewinds63
                E gads... I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and cord back
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 8, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  E gads...

                  I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on
                  connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and
                  cord back to back, that's the first rule and it comes before pin#
                  standards as the pin number standards are established atop device face
                  to face and cord back to back.

                  Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it "appears" to be
                  crossed with regard to the pins when reading the pin number to actual
                  internal wire connective, but you're missing the back to back or face
                  to face rule of same sex connections as the standard configuration for
                  all same sex and opposite sex connections.

                  Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to console as same sex
                  devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1. Because the cord is
                  simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over" would be to flip one
                  of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the cord during
                  manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same wire. Common I/O
                  requires opposite sex connectors from device to device with pin #
                  matching or the same sex pins to match face to face of opposite pin #
                  and of 4 we would observe when held together at same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
                  and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always, no matter sex and
                  pin # it's face to face/back to back of either device or cord
                  respectively.

                  Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video card is Monitors male
                  to video cards female. If by chance you have a monitor that has a jack
                  without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack may be female like
                  the video card and the patch cord will be male/male and the pins will
                  be back to back (opposite at face) by default and face to face at
                  devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the thermo/hygro to console
                  is indeed not crossed over and conforms to standard wiring protocol,
                  with no cross over.

                  This imaginary cross over is an illusion created by not understanding
                  the standards of device to device connective protocol. Which is simply
                  male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex mirrored pin numbers. If
                  one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly connected without a
                  patch, its jack can be the same sex as the intended connecting device.

                  Imagine simply changing the sex of the Thermo/hygro sensor from what
                  is now, then if it were possible to connect it to the console without
                  an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They would pin m1 to f1,
                  m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over occurs and is
                  essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using same sex device jacks.

                  As it stands with the current connector method; follow along here, f1
                  to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4. The protocol is not
                  broken and no cross over occurs because it still ends up device face
                  to device face. You see, the female on each device will by default
                  face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...

                  There is no cross over unless a wire is permanently connected same sex
                  both sides through cord to same sex and same pin-out. That is a cross
                  over, as is a cord that has one female end and a male end (called a
                  crossed extension) and they are manufactured with opposing pin-out #'s
                  or some odd form therein.

                  If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector at each device, we
                  would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @
                  cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B; thus, device A is
                  connecting m-1 to device B F-1.

                  The La Crosse WS 2308 uses no cross over and is standard concerning
                  connector protocol. We're observing the back to back (cord) and face
                  to face (device) rule. Cords are back to back, devices are face to
                  face with no deviations in the natural contact as brought together and
                  if not a default natural contact face to face or back to back then
                  they are considered "crossed".

                  Remember the basic rule first - face to face and back to back.
                  Matching the pin#'s are only applicable when a face to face male to
                  female device connection is established and or a cord that's back to
                  back male/female and same sex connections will reflect opposite pin
                  numbers through the back to back rule.




                  --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
                  <jkelleher_gk6513@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > David;
                  >
                  > The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
                  > standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
                  > design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
                  >
                • David Williams
                  Egads is right! I must have had myself screwed up too many times. I do normally work with network connections which do have a different way of handling
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 8, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Message
                    Egads is right!  I must have had myself screwed up too many times. I do normally work with network connections which do have a different way of handling things. I usually work with the wall plugs and not the connectors themselves so that is likely were my confusion came from. Thanks for clearing things up! This was just the source of my problem and thought it might be relevant. If you are just using the original cable and are still having problems, it may be you have a faulty unit. I wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.
                     
                    David
                     
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tradewinds63
                    Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:26 PM
                    To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La Crosse writes back)

                    E gads...

                    I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on
                    connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and
                    cord back to back, that's the first rule and it comes before pin#
                    standards as the pin number standards are established atop device face
                    to face and cord back to back.

                    Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it "appears" to be
                    crossed with regard to the pins when reading the pin number to actual
                    internal wire connective, but you're missing the back to back or face
                    to face rule of same sex connections as the standard configuration for
                    all same sex and opposite sex connections.

                    Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to console as same sex
                    devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1. Because the cord is
                    simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over" would be to flip one
                    of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the cord during
                    manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same wire. Common I/O
                    requires opposite sex connectors from device to device with pin #
                    matching or the same sex pins to match face to face of opposite pin #
                    and of 4 we would observe when held together at same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
                    and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always, no matter sex and
                    pin # it's face to face/back to back of either device or cord
                    respectively.

                    Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video card is Monitors male
                    to video cards female. If by chance you have a monitor that has a jack
                    without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack may be female like
                    the video card and the patch cord will be male/male and the pins will
                    be back to back (opposite at face) by default and face to face at
                    devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the thermo/hygro to console
                    is indeed not crossed over and conforms to standard wiring protocol,
                    with no cross over.

                    This imaginary cross over is an illusion created by not understanding
                    the standards of device to device connective protocol. Which is simply
                    male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex mirrored pin numbers. If
                    one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly connected without a
                    patch, its jack can be the same sex as the intended connecting device.

                    Imagine simply changing the sex of the Thermo/hygro sensor from what
                    is now, then if it were possible to connect it to the console without
                    an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They would pin m1 to f1,
                    m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over occurs and is
                    essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using same sex device jacks.

                    As it stands with the current connector method; follow along here, f1
                    to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4. The protocol is not
                    broken and no cross over occurs because it still ends up device face
                    to device face. You see, the female on each device will by default
                    face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...

                    There is no cross over unless a wire is permanently connected same sex
                    both sides through cord to same sex and same pin-out. That is a cross
                    over, as is a cord that has one female end and a male end (called a
                    crossed extension) and they are manufactured with opposing pin-out #'s
                    or some odd form therein.

                    If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector at each device, we
                    would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @
                    cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B; thus, device A is
                    connecting m-1 to device B F-1.

                    The La Crosse WS 2308 uses no cross over and is standard concerning
                    connector protocol. We're observing the back to back (cord) and face
                    to face (device) rule. Cords are back to back, devices are face to
                    face with no deviations in the natural contact as brought together and
                    if not a default natural contact face to face or back to back then
                    they are considered "crossed".

                    Remember the basic rule first - face to face and back to back.
                    Matching the pin#'s are only applicable when a face to face male to
                    female device connection is established and or a cord that's back to
                    back male/female and same sex connections will reflect opposite pin
                    numbers through the back to back rule.

                    --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, Jim Kelleher
                    <jkelleher_gk6513@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > David;
                    >
                    > The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
                    > standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
                    > design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
                    >

                  • tradewinds63
                    Hello Dave, You didn t screw up; the all of industry is screwed up. Does some things one way and then it turns around and does something else another way, then
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Dave,

                      You didn't screw up; the all of industry is screwed up. Does some
                      things one way and then it turns around and does something else
                      another way, then some Maverick manufacturer comes along and does some
                      real odd ball thing. Bottom line, when creating any connection for
                      something new, need to have the specs on each device. Who knows for
                      sure anymore? Compatibility seems to be a problem in this industry
                      from time to time and every time they seem to merge everything
                      perfectly, they change the cords or standards again.

                      In the world of computers and power, you are correct, it's pin# to
                      pin# or like type, but, I've had some devices that didn't conform to
                      anything normal. I don't know why that occurs, it just does. There's
                      only one thing I have found to be semi true, it's that a majority of
                      the time, the connector type dictates its standard protocol, most of
                      the time.

                      I once had an RS232 cable in a box (molded, not a configurable
                      type), a friend used it with his ZIP drive. He plugged it in and smoke
                      came pouring out of his ZIP drive. Upon investigation of the RS232, we
                      found it had a couple real strange pin to pin configurations. It would
                      have been nice if the manufacturer would have put a red X or some
                      other eye grabbing marker on it.

                      Anyhow, I appreciate your input, and yes you're correct about the
                      cross-over, they do indeed cross over, but on the other hand, they
                      don't, not according to Ma Bells corner of the universe ;)

                      I wonder why La Crosse used Ma Bell connectors?



                      --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "David Williams"
                      <davecw@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Egads is right! I must have had myself screwed up too many times. I do
                      > normally work with network connections which do have a different way of
                      > handling things. I usually work with the wall plugs and not the
                      > connectors themselves so that is likely were my confusion came from.
                      > Thanks for clearing things up! This was just the source of my problem
                      > and thought it might be relevant. If you are just using the original
                      > cable and are still having problems, it may be you have a faulty unit. I
                      > wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tradewinds63
                      > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:26 PM
                      > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La Crosse writes back)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > E gads...
                      >
                      > I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on
                      > connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and
                      > cord back to back, that's the first rule and it comes before pin#
                      > standards as the pin number standards are established atop device face
                      > to face and cord back to back.
                      >
                      > Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it "appears" to be
                      > crossed with regard to the pins when reading the pin number to actual
                      > internal wire connective, but you're missing the back to back or face
                      > to face rule of same sex connections as the standard configuration for
                      > all same sex and opposite sex connections.
                      >
                      > Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to console as same sex
                      > devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1. Because the cord is
                      > simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over" would be to flip one
                      > of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the cord during
                      > manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same wire. Common I/O
                      > requires opposite sex connectors from device to device with pin #
                      > matching or the same sex pins to match face to face of opposite pin #
                      > and of 4 we would observe when held together at same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
                      > and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always, no matter sex and
                      > pin # it's face to face/back to back of either device or cord
                      > respectively.
                      >
                      > Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video card is Monitors male
                      > to video cards female. If by chance you have a monitor that has a jack
                      > without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack may be female like
                      > the video card and the patch cord will be male/male and the pins will
                      > be back to back (opposite at face) by default and face to face at
                      > devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the thermo/hygro to console
                      > is indeed not crossed over and conforms to standard wiring protocol,
                      > with no cross over.
                      >
                      > This imaginary cross over is an illusion created by not understanding
                      > the standards of device to device connective protocol. Which is simply
                      > male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex mirrored pin numbers. If
                      > one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly connected without a
                      > patch, its jack can be the same sex as the intended connecting device.
                      >
                      > Imagine simply changing the sex of the Thermo/hygro sensor from what
                      > is now, then if it were possible to connect it to the console without
                      > an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They would pin m1 to f1,
                      > m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over occurs and is
                      > essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using same sex device jacks.
                      >
                      >
                      > As it stands with the current connector method; follow along here, f1
                      > to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4. The protocol is not
                      > broken and no cross over occurs because it still ends up device face
                      > to device face. You see, the female on each device will by default
                      > face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...
                      >
                      > There is no cross over unless a wire is permanently connected same sex
                      > both sides through cord to same sex and same pin-out. That is a cross
                      > over, as is a cord that has one female end and a male end (called a
                      > crossed extension) and they are manufactured with opposing pin-out #'s
                      > or some odd form therein.
                      >
                      > If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector at each device, we
                      > would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @
                      > cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B; thus, device A is
                      > connecting m-1 to device B F-1.
                      >
                      > The La Crosse WS 2308 uses no cross over and is standard concerning
                      > connector protocol. We're observing the back to back (cord) and face
                      > to face (device) rule. Cords are back to back, devices are face to
                      > face with no deviations in the natural contact as brought together and
                      > if not a default natural contact face to face or back to back then
                      > they are considered "crossed".
                      >
                      > Remember the basic rule first - face to face and back to back.
                      > Matching the pin#'s are only applicable when a face to face male to
                      > female device connection is established and or a cord that's back to
                      > back male/female and same sex connections will reflect opposite pin
                      > numbers through the back to back rule.
                      >
                      > --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
                      > <jkelleher_gk6513@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > David;
                      > >
                      > > The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
                      > > standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
                      > > design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
                      > >
                      >
                    • Jim Kelleher
                      Mike; You have got to be kidding. There are standards in this industry that define the specifications for the various connectors used in the connectivity
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 10, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Mike;

                        You have got to be kidding. There are standards in
                        this industry that define the specifications for the
                        various connectors used in the connectivity between
                        data devices. I don't care if you are using an RJ11,
                        RJ45, DB9, DB25 or any of the countless number of
                        other connectors used for data connectivity, pin#1
                        connects to pin#1 connects to pin#1 regardless of the
                        sex or physical location of the connector. Anyone with
                        any experience in data cabling should be able to point
                        out to you which pin is pin#1, pin#2 etc. As for all
                        of the other specs you require before you plug the
                        cable in between the console and the thermo/hygro
                        unit, I don't see the point. It is plug and pray. You
                        plug it in and pray that it works. Many of us have
                        done it and have been successful in downloading our
                        data to our PC's and various servers for many months
                        without any problems. If you have tried the basic
                        setup with the included cables in a 'burn in
                        configuration' i.e. on the kitchen table or the back
                        deck, and are still having problems, you have a
                        defective unit(s) or a flawed configuration. If the
                        system works 'on the ground' but fails after
                        installation, you'll need to look at the installation
                        techniques used. Many of us are here to help with any
                        questions you may have.

                        Jim
                        --- tradewinds63 <tradewinds63@...> wrote:

                        > Hello Dave,
                        >
                        > You didn't screw up; the all of industry is
                        > screwed up. Does some
                        > things one way and then it turns around and does
                        > something else
                        > another way, then some Maverick manufacturer comes
                        > along and does some
                        > real odd ball thing. Bottom line, when creating any
                        > connection for
                        > something new, need to have the specs on each
                        > device. Who knows for
                        > sure anymore? Compatibility seems to be a problem in
                        > this industry
                        > from time to time and every time they seem to merge
                        > everything
                        > perfectly, they change the cords or standards again.
                        >
                        >
                        > In the world of computers and power, you are
                        > correct, it's pin# to
                        > pin# or like type, but, I've had some devices that
                        > didn't conform to
                        > anything normal. I don't know why that occurs, it
                        > just does. There's
                        > only one thing I have found to be semi true, it's
                        > that a majority of
                        > the time, the connector type dictates its standard
                        > protocol, most of
                        > the time.
                        >
                        > I once had an RS232 cable in a box (molded, not
                        > a configurable
                        > type), a friend used it with his ZIP drive. He
                        > plugged it in and smoke
                        > came pouring out of his ZIP drive. Upon
                        > investigation of the RS232, we
                        > found it had a couple real strange pin to pin
                        > configurations. It would
                        > have been nice if the manufacturer would have put a
                        > red X or some
                        > other eye grabbing marker on it.
                        >
                        > Anyhow, I appreciate your input, and yes you're
                        > correct about the
                        > cross-over, they do indeed cross over, but on the
                        > other hand, they
                        > don't, not according to Ma Bells corner of the
                        > universe ;)
                        >
                        > I wonder why La Crosse used Ma Bell connectors?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "David
                        > Williams"
                        > <davecw@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Egads is right! I must have had myself screwed up
                        > too many times. I do
                        > > normally work with network connections which do
                        > have a different way of
                        > > handling things. I usually work with the wall
                        > plugs and not the
                        > > connectors themselves so that is likely were my
                        > confusion came from.
                        > > Thanks for clearing things up! This was just the
                        > source of my problem
                        > > and thought it might be relevant. If you are just
                        > using the original
                        > > cable and are still having problems, it may be you
                        > have a faulty unit. I
                        > > wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.
                        > >
                        > > David
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                        > > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of tradewinds63
                        > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:26 PM
                        > > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La
                        > Crosse writes back)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > E gads...
                        > >
                        > > I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be
                        > some confusion on
                        > > connector protocols here. Standard protocol is
                        > device face to face and
                        > > cord back to back, that's the first rule and it
                        > comes before pin#
                        > > standards as the pin number standards are
                        > established atop device face
                        > > to face and cord back to back.
                        > >
                        > > Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it
                        > "appears" to be
                        > > crossed with regard to the pins when reading the
                        > pin number to actual
                        > > internal wire connective, but you're missing the
                        > back to back or face
                        > > to face rule of same sex connections as the
                        > standard configuration for
                        > > all same sex and opposite sex connections.
                        > >
                        > > Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to
                        > console as same sex
                        > > devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1.
                        > Because the cord is
                        > > simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over"
                        > would be to flip one
                        > > of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the
                        > cord during
                        > > manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same
                        > wire. Common I/O
                        > > requires opposite sex connectors from device to
                        > device with pin #
                        > > matching or the same sex pins to match face to
                        > face of opposite pin #
                        > > and of 4 we would observe when held together at
                        > same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
                        > > and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always,
                        > no matter sex and
                        > > pin # it's face to face/back to back of either
                        > device or cord
                        > > respectively.
                        > >
                        > > Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video
                        > card is Monitors male
                        > > to video cards female. If by chance you have a
                        > monitor that has a jack
                        > > without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack
                        > may be female like
                        > > the video card and the patch cord will be
                        > male/male and the pins will
                        > > be back to back (opposite at face) by default and
                        > face to face at
                        > > devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the
                        > thermo/hygro to console
                        > > is indeed not crossed over and conforms to
                        > standard wiring protocol,
                        > > with no cross over.
                        > >
                        > > This imaginary cross over is an illusion created
                        > by not understanding
                        > > the standards of device to device connective
                        > protocol. Which is simply
                        > > male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex
                        > mirrored pin numbers. If
                        > > one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly
                        > connected without a
                        > > patch, its jack can be the same sex as the
                        > intended connecting device.
                        > >
                        > > Imagine simply changing the sex of the
                        > Thermo/hygro sensor from what
                        > > is now, then if it were possible to connect it to
                        > the console without
                        > > an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They
                        > would pin m1 to f1,
                        > > m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over
                        > occurs and is
                        > > essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using
                        > same sex device jacks.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > As it stands with the current connector method;
                        > follow along here, f1
                        > > to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4.
                        > The protocol is not
                        > > broken and no cross over occurs because it still
                        > ends up device face
                        > > to device face. You see, the female on each device
                        > will by default
                        > > face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...
                        > >
                        > > There is no cross over unless a wire is
                        > permanently connected same sex
                        > > both sides through cord to same sex and same
                        > pin-out. That is a cross
                        > > over, as is a cord that has one female end and a
                        > male end (called a
                        > > crossed extension) and they are manufactured with
                        > opposing pin-out #'s
                        > > or some odd form therein.
                        > >
                        > > If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector
                        > at each device, we
                        > > would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1
                        > connecting to f-1 @
                        > > cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B;
                        > thus, device A is
                        > > connecting m-1 to device B F-1.
                        > >
                        >
                        === message truncated ===


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