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Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

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  • Keith Berry
    Barbara, I have a new station up at my home in Texas and was having similar issues due to improper location and lack of shielding.  Besides a big temperature
    Message 1 of 34 , Jul 3, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Barbara,
       
      I have a new station up at my home in Texas and was having similar issues due to improper location and lack of shielding.  Besides a big temperature delta between your station and another PWS stations that are close, it may be an issue with sudden and rapid changes in temperature causing the system to reject your data.  I was seeing rapid fluctuations in the temperature from my station that was visible on the temp graph. When those would occur, my station would disappear from the map at times.  If you look at http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KTXPLANO86&day=18&year=2012&month=6 you will see the ragged graph line from temperature changes during the afternoon when the sun was directly hitting the unit and then air movement would cool it off.  Once I moved it into a properly shielded location the temperature graph shows a proper temperature graph with a smooth transition in temperature throughout the day http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KTXPLANO86&day=28&year=2012&month=6
       
      I have been consistently on the map and tracking with surrounding stations within 2-3 degrees since I moved the sensor.
       
      Regards,
      Keith


      From: Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...>
      To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tue, July 3, 2012 3:53:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

       

      Hi John,

      Thanks for the explanation.  I put a wood box (once contained 5 lbs of clementines) over the sensor of KFLWIMAU2 for our test.  It is not installed, just placed over.  We have thunder in the background, so it might blow off, or the temperature may drop because a thunderstorm is coming.  My husband would be able to install a shade if this looks worth pursuing.  However, I think that its pretty hot here.  Our other outdoor thermometer shows 105, so 96 doesn't seem so far out.

      Barbara






      From: John Celenza <john.celenza@...>
      To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 4:09 PM
      Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

       
      Hi Barbara,

      Sort of :-)

      It can be done temporarily, but I still don't have a system to do this automatically. That is, I can temporarily tell our system not to generate forecasts for that station, but if the station no longer fails QC checks, then the forecasts will reappear about 20 days. By whitelisting your station, I'd be saying "this station is fit for forecasting." Coding these things is complicated :-)

      Thanks,
      -John

      logo 
      John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
      Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
      www.wunderground.com


      On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...> wrote:
       
      OK, I'll try that on KFLWIMAU2. 

      Question:  Is it possible to have a station fully selectable in the database, yet excluded from forecasting?  


      Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 3:54 PM

      Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

      Hi Barbara,

      I am investigating your stations KFLWIMAU2 and KFLWIMAU3 on the WunderMap.

      They do seem too warm. I bet what's happening is there isn't much of a
      breeze and air is heating up under the white radiation shield.

      I wonder if you could perform an experiment on one station to see if
      you can alleviate some of the warming. For example, you could put
      something opaque like a thin piece of wood or white plasitc, above the
      temperature sensor to shade it (maybe with holes in it to allow air to
      flow).

      Right now, I think you are running a little too high for our accuracy
      checks, and I'm afraid allowing the station to be on the site when
      it's too warm will result in forecasts that are too warm too.

      Thanks,
      John



      John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
      Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
      www.wunderground.com
      Want a signature like mine? Click here.


      On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > To answer your question, I have an OS WMR 100 and a Zephyr 1000-TD which is like an Ambient.  Both have standard radiation shields.
      >
      > I am not writing because I think my temperature readings are too high.
      >
      > I wrote this because I noticed below that other stations were failing temperature quality checks because of high temperatures.  Furthermore, I saw that John Celenza could relax those checks for a given station.  In May, my stations possibly failed this check, and through wunderground support, I eventually got my stations back to being selectable.  They never told me what temperatures were objectionable, so I'm just guessing that the algorithm was inappropriate for inland central Florida.  My whole intention of writing was to get more relaxed check.  If I can't get that, then never mind.
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Radu Eugen <eugenraduoradea@...>
      > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 3:02 PM
      >
      > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
      >
      >
      > I don't think that wunderground has anything to do with your problems. I have never encountered a situation like the one you talk about. It was just an opinion and if you want to find out what is the temperature in your area you can check the temperature of the nearest airport. What kind of weather stations do you have, which brand ?
      > Are your radiation shields similar to the ones from the links I mentioned before.
      > How can you say that your stations are accurate if you don't have a standard WMO weather station in your area or in your vicinity to compare your stations with that ?!
      > My advice had the best intentions, I didn't want to offence you in any way.
      > Regards
      > ________________________________
      > From: Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...>
      > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:33 PM
      > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
      >
      >
      > I don't understand your comment.  My stations are reasonably accurate.  Its hot here!!!  Why would I tweak them and how on earth would I know what temperatures are acceptable?
      >
      > Are you telling me that weather underground is not willing to make my stations selectable?
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Radu Eugen <eugenraduoradea@...>
      > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:55 PM
      > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
      >
      >
      > There are 2 possibilities, either you go on wuhu in tweak area and reduce your temperature to a value that is accepted in your area or you can buy a standard radiation shield from Davis or Oregon Scientific:
      > http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=07714
      > http://www.amazon.com/Ambient-Weather-SRS100LX-Temperature-Radiation/dp/B003EB3GE4
      > I hope my advices will help you solve your problem.
      > Regards, Eugen
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...>
      > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 8:41 PM
      > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
      >
      >
      > Hi John,
      >
      > Can you please "whitelist" my 2 stations KFLWIMAU2 and KFLWIMAU3?  They disappeared for 2 weeks in May, and it took a lot of effort to get them back.  It looks like KFKWIMAU2 might be getting hit again.  I know the temperature seems high, but we have no shade here.  That's why I bought 2 stations...to check against each other.
      >
      > Barbara
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: John Celenza <john.celenza@...>
      > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:58 PM
      > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
      >
      >
      > Hello,
      >
      > OK, I whitelisted your station and relaxed our temperature check a bit.
      >
      > Hopefully that will help!
      >
      > Thanks,
      > John
      >
      > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:56 AM, ab9so <ab9so@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I am also having issues. I have noticed other local weather stations disappearing from Wunderground as well. I was on last night okay, but again today my station is not listed but data is uploading and showing on the site. Stickers don't work either.
      >
      > My station is KINDECAT4.
      >
      > Not sure what your temp check does. You do realize we are in a heat wave/drought here. Been in 90's and pushing 100 here for a while. Calling for low 100's at the end of week.
      >
      >
      > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, John Celenza <john.celenza@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi there,
      > >
      > > Your station recently failed our temperature quality checks.
      > >
      > > Can you tell me about your thermometer? Is it shielded (with a white
      > > shield)? Where is it placed?
      > >
      > > Here are some stats we use to QC:
      > >
      > > *time**temp**mean**allowed difference*2012-06-21 13:06 ET90.06600084.436600
      > > 3.7103722012-06-21 13:06 ET90.06600083.5366004.75422012-06-21 14:06 ET
      > > 89.06600083.9366003.6286162012-06-21 14:06
      > > ET89.06600083.7410003.4703562012-06-22
      > > 13:06 ET91.06600085.2406003.2008742012-06-22 14:06 ET91.06600085.336600
      > > 3.3526122012-06-22 14:06 ET91.06600085.3366003.352612
      > >
      > > where temp is your station's temperature
      > > mean is the average temperature of stations nearby
      > > and allowed difference is the maximum difference between your station and
      > > the mean that is allowed.
      > >
      > > I am considering a move to relax this check a bit, since many folks are
      > > getting failed (as we hit Summer Solstice).
      > >
      > > I hope this helps, let me know your thoughts,
      > > John
      > >
      > > [image: logo]
      > > *John Celenza** Director of Technology,Weather Underground*
      > > Tel: 415-983-2605 | Mobile: 415-794-8648
      > > www.wunderground.com
      > > Want a signature like mine?
      > > <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=22&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_22>
      > > Click
      > > here.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=22&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_22>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:28 PM, vaileed <edricva@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > About ten min. now and everything on my end seems to be working fine, but
      > > > the info. is not showing up on Wunderground, thanks, Ed
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Barbara Rosen
      Hi John, Thought I should change the subject line to reduce confusion. The box I had placed over the temperature sensor of KFLWIMAU2 stayed on yesterday, and
      Message 34 of 34 , Jul 5, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi John,

        Thought I should change the subject line to reduce confusion.

        The box I had placed over the temperature sensor of KFLWIMAU2 stayed on yesterday, and the temperature soared to 103, which was way high.  After moving things around and trying a few solutions this morning, we ended up detaching the temperature sensor and putting it on the screened in lanai.  Since the OS WMR100 has transmitters in each of its sensors, we could do this fairly easily.  We will leave the temperature sensor on the lanai until we get materials to construct a shade.

        KFLWIMAU3 setup has not been modified.

        Barbara


        From: John Celenza <john.celenza@...>
        To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 5:42 PM
        Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

         
        That might be good to experiment with. Just make sure plenty of air gets to the sensor, or else you'll get a green house :-)

        As Keith says, you want to look at station very close by and get a feel for the average temperature. You shouldn't be too far from that value. Experimenting will probably yield a good solution. 

        I wish meteorologists measured temperature in the sun, then this would be easy! :-) But, the science says it's not how hot the sun feels, or how much it heats up a surface, but the actual temperature of the air that we are interested in measuring.

        -John

        logo 
        John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
        Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
        www.wunderground.com


        On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...> wrote:
         
        Its important to note that our stations should not be compared to those on the coast.  Inland gets much hotter.  I usually look at the Lithia stations to see how my numbers look. 

        If you think that we should install shade permanently, we can construct something within our budget.  I just ordered some aluminet shade cloth for to cover my seeding trays while I harden them off.  Do you think that would make a good shield?

        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 4:43 PM

        Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

         
        Very true :-) I wonder how hard it is to buy one and how expensive they are. They looks nice !

        logo 
        John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
        Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
        www.wunderground.com


        On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Radu Eugen <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
         
        It should be great to have a standard Stevenson screen, that would definitely solve her problems.

        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 11:39 PM

        Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

         
        I see those other hot PWS' too. That's why I want Barbara to try my experiment with adding extra shielding. :-)



        logo 
        John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
        Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
        www.wunderground.com


        On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Radu Eugen <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
         
        There are several PWS in your area, one of them shows the same temperature as yours, 35 deg C.

        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 11:26 PM

        Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

         
        Hi John,

        Thanks for the explanation.  I put a wood box (once contained 5 lbs of clementines) over the sensor of KFLWIMAU2 for our test.  It is not installed, just placed over.  We have thunder in the background, so it might blow off, or the temperature may drop because a thunderstorm is coming.  My husband would be able to install a shade if this looks worth pursuing.  However, I think that its pretty hot here.  Our other outdoor thermometer shows 105, so 96 doesn't seem so far out.

        Barbara






        From: John Celenza <john.celenza@...>
        To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 4:09 PM
        Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

         
        Hi Barbara,

        Sort of :-)

        It can be done temporarily, but I still don't have a system to do this automatically. That is, I can temporarily tell our system not to generate forecasts for that station, but if the station no longer fails QC checks, then the forecasts will reappear about 20 days. By whitelisting your station, I'd be saying "this station is fit for forecasting." Coding these things is complicated :-)

        Thanks,
        -John

        logo 
        John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
        Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
        www.wunderground.com


        On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...> wrote:
         
        OK, I'll try that on KFLWIMAU2. 

        Question:  Is it possible to have a station fully selectable in the database, yet excluded from forecasting?  


        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 3:54 PM

        Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down

        Hi Barbara,

        I am investigating your stations KFLWIMAU2 and KFLWIMAU3 on the WunderMap.

        They do seem too warm. I bet what's happening is there isn't much of a
        breeze and air is heating up under the white radiation shield.

        I wonder if you could perform an experiment on one station to see if
        you can alleviate some of the warming. For example, you could put
        something opaque like a thin piece of wood or white plasitc, above the
        temperature sensor to shade it (maybe with holes in it to allow air to
        flow).

        Right now, I think you are running a little too high for our accuracy
        checks, and I'm afraid allowing the station to be on the site when
        it's too warm will result in forecasts that are too warm too.

        Thanks,
        John



        John Celenza Director of Technology,Weather Underground
        Tel: 415-983-2605  | Mobile: 415-794-8648
        www.wunderground.com
        Want a signature like mine? Click here.


        On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > To answer your question, I have an OS WMR 100 and a Zephyr 1000-TD which is like an Ambient.  Both have standard radiation shields.
        >
        > I am not writing because I think my temperature readings are too high.
        >
        > I wrote this because I noticed below that other stations were failing temperature quality checks because of high temperatures.  Furthermore, I saw that John Celenza could relax those checks for a given station.  In May, my stations possibly failed this check, and through wunderground support, I eventually got my stations back to being selectable.  They never told me what temperatures were objectionable, so I'm just guessing that the algorithm was inappropriate for inland central Florida.  My whole intention of writing was to get more relaxed check.  If I can't get that, then never mind.
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Radu Eugen <eugenraduoradea@...>
        > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 3:02 PM
        >
        > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
        >
        >
        > I don't think that wunderground has anything to do with your problems. I have never encountered a situation like the one you talk about. It was just an opinion and if you want to find out what is the temperature in your area you can check the temperature of the nearest airport. What kind of weather stations do you have, which brand ?
        > Are your radiation shields similar to the ones from the links I mentioned before.
        > How can you say that your stations are accurate if you don't have a standard WMO weather station in your area or in your vicinity to compare your stations with that ?!
        > My advice had the best intentions, I didn't want to offence you in any way.
        > Regards
        > ________________________________
        > From: Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...>
        > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:33 PM
        > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
        >
        >
        > I don't understand your comment.  My stations are reasonably accurate.  Its hot here!!!  Why would I tweak them and how on earth would I know what temperatures are acceptable?
        >
        > Are you telling me that weather underground is not willing to make my stations selectable?
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Radu Eugen <eugenraduoradea@...>
        > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:55 PM
        > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
        >
        >
        > There are 2 possibilities, either you go on wuhu in tweak area and reduce your temperature to a value that is accepted in your area or you can buy a standard radiation shield from Davis or Oregon Scientific:
        > http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=07714
        > http://www.amazon.com/Ambient-Weather-SRS100LX-Temperature-Radiation/dp/B003EB3GE4
        > I hope my advices will help you solve your problem.
        > Regards, Eugen
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Barbara Rosen <gqsbrosen@...>
        > To: "wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com" <wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 8:41 PM
        > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
        >
        >
        > Hi John,
        >
        > Can you please "whitelist" my 2 stations KFLWIMAU2 and KFLWIMAU3?  They disappeared for 2 weeks in May, and it took a lot of effort to get them back.  It looks like KFKWIMAU2 might be getting hit again.  I know the temperature seems high, but we have no shade here.  That's why I bought 2 stations...to check against each other.
        >
        > Barbara
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: John Celenza <john.celenza@...>
        > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:58 PM
        > Subject: Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: I'm down, KFLOAKHI2 is down
        >
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > OK, I whitelisted your station and relaxed our temperature check a bit.
        >
        > Hopefully that will help!
        >
        > Thanks,
        > John
        >
        > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:56 AM, ab9so <ab9so@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I am also having issues. I have noticed other local weather stations disappearing from Wunderground as well. I was on last night okay, but again today my station is not listed but data is uploading and showing on the site. Stickers don't work either.
        >
        > My station is KINDECAT4.
        >
        > Not sure what your temp check does. You do realize we are in a heat wave/drought here. Been in 90's and pushing 100 here for a while. Calling for low 100's at the end of week.
        >
        >
        > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, John Celenza <john.celenza@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi there,
        > >
        > > Your station recently failed our temperature quality checks.
        > >
        > > Can you tell me about your thermometer? Is it shielded (with a white
        > > shield)? Where is it placed?
        > >
        > > Here are some stats we use to QC:
        > >
        > > *time**temp**mean**allowed difference*2012-06-21 13:06 ET90.06600084.436600
        > > 3.7103722012-06-21 13:06 ET90.06600083.5366004.75422012-06-21 14:06 ET
        > > 89.06600083.9366003.6286162012-06-21 14:06
        > > ET89.06600083.7410003.4703562012-06-22
        > > 13:06 ET91.06600085.2406003.2008742012-06-22 14:06 ET91.06600085.336600
        > > 3.3526122012-06-22 14:06 ET91.06600085.3366003.352612
        > >
        > > where temp is your station's temperature
        > > mean is the average temperature of stations nearby
        > > and allowed difference is the maximum difference between your station and
        > > the mean that is allowed.
        > >
        > > I am considering a move to relax this check a bit, since many folks are
        > > getting failed (as we hit Summer Solstice).
        > >
        > > I hope this helps, let me know your thoughts,
        > > John
        > >
        > > [image: logo]
        > > *John Celenza** Director of Technology,Weather Underground*
        > > Tel: 415-983-2605 | Mobile: 415-794-8648
        > > www.wunderground.com
        > > Want a signature like mine?
        > > <http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=22&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_22>
        > > Click
        > > here.<http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=22&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_22>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:28 PM, vaileed <edricva@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > **
        >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > About ten min. now and everything on my end seems to be working fine, but
        > > > the info. is not showing up on Wunderground, thanks, Ed
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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