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Re: WMR-100 Support

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  • wuhu_software
    Eugen, I do not know if the new stations emulate the protocol of the WS-23XX or WS-36XX series. I did see a screen shot of new software that was not HW or HW
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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      Eugen,

      I do not know if the new stations emulate the protocol of the WS-23XX
      or WS-36XX series. I did see a screen shot of 'new' software that was
      not HW or HW Pro, so who knows what La Crosse has brewed up this time.

      If they have changed their protocol yet again, you might be stuck
      with 1 minute updates using the currdat.lst monitoring method. I will
      not be supporting them or OS or anyone else that does not open up
      their station.

      Thanks.


      --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
      <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the WUHU
      > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What new
      > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
      > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my station is
      > already active will it continue to send data due to
      > the WUHU software in the future ?
      > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
      > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon concerning
      > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu, Oradea,
      > Romania
      > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Tony,
      > >
      > > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently
      > > OS is too big for
      > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to
      > > the requests for
      > > their protocol from software developers like myself.
      > > I have tried at
      > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
      > > once. I even tried
      > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
      > >
      > > At this point I would like to make the announcement
      > > that WUHU will no
      > > longer support any OS weather stations other than
      > > the WMR-9X8
      > > stations that it current supports. The only reason
      > > WUHU supports that
      > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
      > > that have reverse
      > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
      > >
      > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
      > > Crosse stations. Mr
      > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr.
      > > free La Crosse
      > > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently
      > > unworthy of
      > > their protocol) will no longer support any station
      > > from La Crosse
      > > that does have have a published protocol.
      > >
      > > The same will be true for any other station
      > > manufacturers who is not
      > > making their protocol available. I have spent hours
      > > upon hours trying
      > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially
      > > done with it.
      > >
      > > My advice is to find station that has a well
      > > documented protocol,
      > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
      > >
      > > You can however purchase one of the other two
      > > commercial packages,
      > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
      > >
      > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
      > >
      > > Best of luck.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony"
      > > <is0hha@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
      > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add
      > > the support for
      > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
      > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
      > > continue to use WUHU
      > > Software.
      > > > I hope in this feature.
      > > > Thanks in advance.
      > > >
      > > > Tony
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      ______________
      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      >
    • wuhu_software
      Dennis, I will have the Davis VP2 support done soon. The support will be there within the next week at the current pace. I have already added support for the
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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        Dennis,

        I will have the Davis VP2 support done soon. The support will be
        there within the next week at the current pace.

        I have already added support for the live data, I need to now study
        the logging capability of the Davis.

        From what I see so far, you cannot go wrong with a Davis.

        Thanks.


        --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, D Doty <oldcessna21@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Thank You, (Keith, I think) WUHU-Software.
        > I am a relatively new member of the weather community, although I
        have studied the weather for many years as an active pilot.
        > I am currently running a OS WMR 968 after having had several
        problems with my La Cross 2308 including a total failure of the rain
        gauge.
        > The WMR 968 is performing well but I have doubts of the accuracy.
        > I will return (briefly) to the US from Asia next month. I fully
        intend to obtain a Davis Pro system to bring back with me on my
        return.
        > I also have a close friend who lives in Colorado (Deer Trail)
        outside of Denver. I have advised him that the Davis Pro is the
        system to get. He will obtain and install the system this year.
        > Please continue your efforts to support all systems, but I
        understand your frustrations in trying to support systems that do not
        contribute to your efforts.
        > All need to understand that most users WANT to contribute their
        data to anyone in the world who is interested.
        > Dennis Doty
        > IZAMBALE1
        > CWOP 7056
        > oldcessna21@...
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...>
        > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 1:49:26 PM
        > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: WMR-100 Support
        >
        > Tony,
        >
        > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big
        for
        > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests for
        > their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried
        at
        > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even tried
        > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
        >
        > At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU will
        no
        > longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
        > stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports
        that
        > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have reverse
        > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
        >
        > The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations.
        Mr
        > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
        > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
        > their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
        > that does have have a published protocol.
        >
        > The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is
        not
        > making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours
        trying
        > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.
        >
        > My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
        > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
        >
        > You can however purchase one of the other two commercial packages,
        > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
        >
        > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
        >
        > Best of luck.
        >
        > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, "Tony" <is0hha@>
        wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Dear WUHU.
        > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support for
        > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
        > > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use
        WUHU
        > Software.
        > > I hope in this feature.
        > > Thanks in advance.
        > >
        > > Tony
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Juha Jäntti
        Hi Eugen. I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650, as it is practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference is the USB to RS232 converter that
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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          Hi Eugen.

          I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650, as it is
          practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference is the USB to
          RS232 converter that comes with the station. The protocols are unchanged.

          I know you all will hate me for saying all this, but anything else out
          of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations will probably not be
          supported unless someone is kind enough to either reverse engineer the
          new protocols these new stations are using or LaCrosse stops sitting
          on their hands and give details of the protocols. Somehow I'm not
          seeing the latter happening...

          Looking at the stations they are currently producing and selling, I've
          starting to have a distinct feeling that LaCrosse will pull the plug
          on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the next 3-5 years despite
          community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305 leave the shelves and
          next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course, they will still have
          the USB to serial converted models available, but for how long are
          they going to last if the current situation is like this? They may
          keep them available for several years after WS-2308 is pulled off the
          shelf completely. We are dependant on their decisions and looking at
          how much we, as a community can do to persuade LaCrosse, we are
          heading for troubled times.

          I sincerely hope people start or have already started developing a
          contigency/backup plans for their weather stations. When (and I
          emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather community will feel the
          impact within a year or two, depending where the station is located
          and what kind of climate they're put into. We have tons of LaCrosse
          stations located around the globe, sending weather data to CWOP and
          other services. I fear we will lose a big number of them when LaCrosse
          decides to give a killing blow on their WS-2300/3600 line of products.

          I have a contigency plan set up and already underway: I'm switching to
          Peet Bros and all for a good reason. I'm utterly dissappointed with
          LaCrosse's support and their strange decisions for removal of weather
          station models without any prior warning. What makes my plan
          interested is that my forthcoming station is probably the first Peet
          Bros Ultimeter 2100 station in Finland (According to searches by
          Google and references to other nearby stations, which are mostly Davis
          and LaCrosse models).

          Please do remember, that these are only my predictions and opinions of
          things to come. I have no idea, what's going on at LaCrosse or what
          their plans really are but using common sense and logic, I came up
          with this prediction.

          Best Regards,
          Juha
          Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
          Helsinki, Finland
          CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2


          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
          <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the WUHU
          > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What new
          > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
          > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my station is
          > already active will it continue to send data due to
          > the WUHU software in the future ?
          > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
          > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon concerning
          > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu, Oradea,
          > Romania
          > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Tony,
          > >
          > > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently
          > > OS is too big for
          > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to
          > > the requests for
          > > their protocol from software developers like myself.
          > > I have tried at
          > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
          > > once. I even tried
          > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
          > >
          > > At this point I would like to make the announcement
          > > that WUHU will no
          > > longer support any OS weather stations other than
          > > the WMR-9X8
          > > stations that it current supports. The only reason
          > > WUHU supports that
          > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
          > > that have reverse
          > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
          > >
          > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
          > > Crosse stations. Mr
          > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr.
          > > free La Crosse
          > > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently
          > > unworthy of
          > > their protocol) will no longer support any station
          > > from La Crosse
          > > that does have have a published protocol.
          > >
          > > The same will be true for any other station
          > > manufacturers who is not
          > > making their protocol available. I have spent hours
          > > upon hours trying
          > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially
          > > done with it.
          > >
          > > My advice is to find station that has a well
          > > documented protocol,
          > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
          > >
          > > You can however purchase one of the other two
          > > commercial packages,
          > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
          > >
          > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
          > >
          > > Best of luck.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony"
          > > <is0hha@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
          > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add
          > > the support for
          > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
          > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
          > > continue to use WUHU
          > > Software.
          > > > I hope in this feature.
          > > > Thanks in advance.
          > > >
          > > > Tony
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
          > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
          >
        • Radu Eugen
          Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I m absolutely sure
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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            Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
            those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
            their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm absolutely
            sure that american brands weather stations are far
            better but the problem is the price and the shipping
            across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse products
            because I have a distributor of their products in my
            own town. Oregon products are not available in our
            country, they have no interest to come here, at least
            that's what they said. In case that things will go
            wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
            Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La Crosse
            guys and express my concern and I'm interested to find
            out what is their point of view regarding this matter.
            I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
            convince them maybe they will hear people's request.
            After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
            product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you, if
            not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you agree ?
            All the best and I would like to hear more from you !
            Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
            --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:

            > Hi Eugen.
            >
            > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650,
            > as it is
            > practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference
            > is the USB to
            > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
            > protocols are unchanged.
            >
            > I know you all will hate me for saying all this, but
            > anything else out
            > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
            > will probably not be
            > supported unless someone is kind enough to either
            > reverse engineer the
            > new protocols these new stations are using or
            > LaCrosse stops sitting
            > on their hands and give details of the protocols.
            > Somehow I'm not
            > seeing the latter happening...
            >
            > Looking at the stations they are currently producing
            > and selling, I've
            > starting to have a distinct feeling that LaCrosse
            > will pull the plug
            > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the next
            > 3-5 years despite
            > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305 leave
            > the shelves and
            > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course, they
            > will still have
            > the USB to serial converted models available, but
            > for how long are
            > they going to last if the current situation is like
            > this? They may
            > keep them available for several years after WS-2308
            > is pulled off the
            > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
            > decisions and looking at
            > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
            > LaCrosse, we are
            > heading for troubled times.
            >
            > I sincerely hope people start or have already
            > started developing a
            > contigency/backup plans for their weather stations.
            > When (and I
            > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
            > community will feel the
            > impact within a year or two, depending where the
            > station is located
            > and what kind of climate they're put into. We have
            > tons of LaCrosse
            > stations located around the globe, sending weather
            > data to CWOP and
            > other services. I fear we will lose a big number of
            > them when LaCrosse
            > decides to give a killing blow on their WS-2300/3600
            > line of products.
            >
            > I have a contigency plan set up and already
            > underway: I'm switching to
            > Peet Bros and all for a good reason. I'm utterly
            > dissappointed with
            > LaCrosse's support and their strange decisions for
            > removal of weather
            > station models without any prior warning. What makes
            > my plan
            > interested is that my forthcoming station is
            > probably the first Peet
            > Bros Ultimeter 2100 station in Finland (According to
            > searches by
            > Google and references to other nearby stations,
            > which are mostly Davis
            > and LaCrosse models).
            >
            > Please do remember, that these are only my
            > predictions and opinions of
            > things to come. I have no idea, what's going on at
            > LaCrosse or what
            > their plans really are but using common sense and
            > logic, I came up
            > with this prediction.
            >
            > Best Regards,
            > Juha
            > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
            > Helsinki, Finland
            > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
            >
            >
            > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
            > Eugen
            > <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the
            > WUHU
            > > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What
            > new
            > > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
            > > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my
            > station is
            > > already active will it continue to send data due
            > to
            > > the WUHU software in the future ?
            > > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
            > > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon
            > concerning
            > > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu,
            > Oradea,
            > > Romania
            > > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Tony,
            > > >
            > > > I sure would have supported the WMR100,
            > apparently
            > > > OS is too big for
            > > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond
            > to
            > > > the requests for
            > > > their protocol from software developers like
            > myself.
            > > > I have tried at
            > > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
            > > > once. I even tried
            > > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
            > > >
            > > > At this point I would like to make the
            > announcement
            > > > that WUHU will no
            > > > longer support any OS weather stations other
            > than
            > > > the WMR-9X8
            > > > stations that it current supports. The only
            > reason
            > > > WUHU supports that
            > > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
            > > > that have reverse
            > > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
            > > >
            > > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
            > > > Crosse stations. Mr
            > > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka,
            > Mr.
            > > > free La Crosse
            > > > technical support, aka "home user" who is
            > apparently
            > > > unworthy of
            > > > their protocol) will no longer support any
            > station
            > > > from La Crosse
            > > > that does have have a published protocol.
            > > >
            > > > The same will be true for any other station
            > > > manufacturers who is not
            > > > making their protocol available. I have spent
            > hours
            > > > upon hours trying
            > > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am
            > officially
            > > > done with it.
            > > >
            > > > My advice is to find station that has a well
            > > > documented protocol,
            > > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
            > > >
            > > > You can however purchase one of the other two
            > > > commercial packages,
            > > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La
            > Crosse.
            > > >
            > > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
            > > >
            > > > Best of luck.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
            > "Tony"
            > > > <is0hha@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
            > > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to
            > add
            > > > the support for
            > > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
            > > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
            > > > continue to use WUHU
            > > > Software.
            > > > > I hope in this feature.
            > > > > Thanks in advance.
            > > > >
            > > > > Tony
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            === message truncated ===



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          • Juha Jäntti
            Eugen, Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with LaCrosse and Oregon Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as standard customers (or consumers ,
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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              Eugen,

              Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with LaCrosse and Oregon
              Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as standard customers (or
              "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I perfectly
              understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more aggravating than first
              sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and officially asking for
              information and after *days* of waiting, get an e-mail back that says
              "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking for an advice as to
              who to contact for the information, you get no response at all (it's
              all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going to help you").

              As we get little or no response from their tech support the only way
              we can really convince them to change their behavior is to start
              telling people how their products are made, how they work and where
              applicable, make negative reviews, telling people that they're
              practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse tech support.
              Eventually people will start looking for a weather station they really
              can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change their ways.

              Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I bought my station
              from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und Elektronik GmbH
              (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived today.
              The price with all the needed supplies to get you going will be
              somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600 station but it will
              still be less than what you would have to pay for a Davis station.

              I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy state and fast.
              LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's only their level
              of service and closed attitude toward people with good intentions,
              like Heath and those involved in protocol reverse-engineering.

              Heath has made a software that has likely resulted in more people
              investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send weather data,
              which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and more money for them.
              Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and LaCrosse thanks
              him answering to a kind and perfectly official query by e-mailing back
              the words: "No, we're not going to give you any details of anything,
              because you are an end-user".

              They will start losing customers and enthusiasts alike if they don't
              change their ways.

              Best Regards,
              Juha
              Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
              Helsinki, Finland
              CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2

              --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
              <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
              > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
              > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm absolutely
              > sure that american brands weather stations are far
              > better but the problem is the price and the shipping
              > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse products
              > because I have a distributor of their products in my
              > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
              > country, they have no interest to come here, at least
              > that's what they said. In case that things will go
              > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
              > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La Crosse
              > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to find
              > out what is their point of view regarding this matter.
              > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
              > convince them maybe they will hear people's request.
              > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
              > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you, if
              > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you agree ?
              > All the best and I would like to hear more from you !
              > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
              > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Eugen.
              > >
              > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650,
              > > as it is
              > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference
              > > is the USB to
              > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
              > > protocols are unchanged.
              > >
              > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this, but
              > > anything else out
              > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
              > > will probably not be
              > > supported unless someone is kind enough to either
              > > reverse engineer the
              > > new protocols these new stations are using or
              > > LaCrosse stops sitting
              > > on their hands and give details of the protocols.
              > > Somehow I'm not
              > > seeing the latter happening...
              > >
              > > Looking at the stations they are currently producing
              > > and selling, I've
              > > starting to have a distinct feeling that LaCrosse
              > > will pull the plug
              > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the next
              > > 3-5 years despite
              > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305 leave
              > > the shelves and
              > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course, they
              > > will still have
              > > the USB to serial converted models available, but
              > > for how long are
              > > they going to last if the current situation is like
              > > this? They may
              > > keep them available for several years after WS-2308
              > > is pulled off the
              > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
              > > decisions and looking at
              > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
              > > LaCrosse, we are
              > > heading for troubled times.
              > >
              > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
              > > started developing a
              > > contigency/backup plans for their weather stations.
              > > When (and I
              > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
              > > community will feel the
              > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
              > > station is located
              > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We have
              > > tons of LaCrosse
              > > stations located around the globe, sending weather
              > > data to CWOP and
              > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number of
              > > them when LaCrosse
              > > decides to give a killing blow on their WS-2300/3600
              > > line of products.
              > >
              > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
              > > underway: I'm switching to
              > > Peet Bros and all for a good reason. I'm utterly
              > > dissappointed with
              > > LaCrosse's support and their strange decisions for
              > > removal of weather
              > > station models without any prior warning. What makes
              > > my plan
              > > interested is that my forthcoming station is
              > > probably the first Peet
              > > Bros Ultimeter 2100 station in Finland (According to
              > > searches by
              > > Google and references to other nearby stations,
              > > which are mostly Davis
              > > and LaCrosse models).
              > >
              > > Please do remember, that these are only my
              > > predictions and opinions of
              > > things to come. I have no idea, what's going on at
              > > LaCrosse or what
              > > their plans really are but using common sense and
              > > logic, I came up
              > > with this prediction.
              > >
              > > Best Regards,
              > > Juha
              > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
              > > Helsinki, Finland
              > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
              > > Eugen
              > > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the
              > > WUHU
              > > > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What
              > > new
              > > > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
              > > > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my
              > > station is
              > > > already active will it continue to send data due
              > > to
              > > > the WUHU software in the future ?
              > > > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
              > > > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon
              > > concerning
              > > > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu,
              > > Oradea,
              > > > Romania
              > > > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Tony,
              > > > >
              > > > > I sure would have supported the WMR100,
              > > apparently
              > > > > OS is too big for
              > > > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond
              > > to
              > > > > the requests for
              > > > > their protocol from software developers like
              > > myself.
              > > > > I have tried at
              > > > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
              > > > > once. I even tried
              > > > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
              > > > >
              > > > > At this point I would like to make the
              > > announcement
              > > > > that WUHU will no
              > > > > longer support any OS weather stations other
              > > than
              > > > > the WMR-9X8
              > > > > stations that it current supports. The only
              > > reason
              > > > > WUHU supports that
              > > > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
              > > > > that have reverse
              > > > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
              > > > >
              > > > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
              > > > > Crosse stations. Mr
              > > > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka,
              > > Mr.
              > > > > free La Crosse
              > > > > technical support, aka "home user" who is
              > > apparently
              > > > > unworthy of
              > > > > their protocol) will no longer support any
              > > station
              > > > > from La Crosse
              > > > > that does have have a published protocol.
              > > > >
              > > > > The same will be true for any other station
              > > > > manufacturers who is not
              > > > > making their protocol available. I have spent
              > > hours
              > > > > upon hours trying
              > > > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am
              > > officially
              > > > > done with it.
              > > > >
              > > > > My advice is to find station that has a well
              > > > > documented protocol,
              > > > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
              > > > >
              > > > > You can however purchase one of the other two
              > > > > commercial packages,
              > > > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La
              > > Crosse.
              > > > >
              > > > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
              > > > >
              > > > > Best of luck.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
              > > "Tony"
              > > > > <is0hha@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
              > > > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to
              > > add
              > > > > the support for
              > > > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
              > > > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
              > > > > continue to use WUHU
              > > > > Software.
              > > > > > I hope in this feature.
              > > > > > Thanks in advance.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Tony
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > === message truncated ===
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Radu Eugen
              Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today with the local distributor of La Crosse products and luckily all the modells he sells can be used with
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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                Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                different with Davis but considering the price,
                especially in a country like ours it's out of
                discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                their products are not so expensive and reliable
                people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oradea
                --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:

                > Eugen,
                >
                > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                > LaCrosse and Oregon
                > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                > standard customers (or
                > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                > perfectly
                > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                > aggravating than first
                > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                > officially asking for
                > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                > e-mail back that says
                > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                > for an advice as to
                > who to contact for the information, you get no
                > response at all (it's
                > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                > to help you").
                >
                > As we get little or no response from their tech
                > support the only way
                > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                > is to start
                > telling people how their products are made, how they
                > work and where
                > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                > that they're
                > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                > tech support.
                > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                > station they really
                > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                > their ways.
                >
                > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                > bought my station
                > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                > Elektronik GmbH
                > (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived
                > today.
                > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                > going will be
                > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                > station but it will
                > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                > Davis station.
                >
                > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                > state and fast.
                > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                > only their level
                > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                > good intentions,
                > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                > reverse-engineering.
                >
                > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                > in more people
                > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                > weather data,
                > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                > more money for them.
                > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                > LaCrosse thanks
                > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                > by e-mailing back
                > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                > details of anything,
                > because you are an end-user".
                >
                > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                > alike if they don't
                > change their ways.
                >
                > Best Regards,
                > Juha
                > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                > Helsinki, Finland
                > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                >
                > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                > Eugen
                > <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                > absolutely
                > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                > > better but the problem is the price and the
                > shipping
                > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                > products
                > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                > my
                > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                > least
                > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                > Crosse
                > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                > find
                > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                > matter.
                > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                > request.
                > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                > if
                > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                > agree ?
                > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                > you !
                > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi Eugen.
                > > >
                > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                > WS-3650,
                > > > as it is
                > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                > difference
                > > > is the USB to
                > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                > > > protocols are unchanged.
                > > >
                > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                > but
                > > > anything else out
                > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                > > > will probably not be
                > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                > either
                > > > reverse engineer the
                > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                > > > on their hands and give details of the
                > protocols.
                > > > Somehow I'm not
                > > > seeing the latter happening...
                > > >
                > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                > producing
                > > > and selling, I've
                > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                > LaCrosse
                > > > will pull the plug
                > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                > next
                > > > 3-5 years despite
                > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                > leave
                > > > the shelves and
                > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                > they
                > > > will still have
                > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                > but
                > > > for how long are
                > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                > like
                > > > this? They may
                > > > keep them available for several years after
                > WS-2308
                > > > is pulled off the
                > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                > > > decisions and looking at
                > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                > > > LaCrosse, we are
                > > > heading for troubled times.
                > > >
                > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                > > > started developing a
                > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                > stations.
                > > > When (and I
                > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                > > > community will feel the
                > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                > > > station is located
                > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                > have
                > > > tons of LaCrosse
                > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                > weather
                > > > data to CWOP and
                > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                > of
                > > > them when LaCrosse
                > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                > WS-2300/3600
                > > > line of products.
                > > >
                > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                > > > underway: I'm switching to
                >
                === message truncated ===



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              • RS Moreland
                Hi Mr WUHU, First, Thank you for your work on this program. I use it and think it s GREAT. I ve bought one of the other programs and found it lacking in many
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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                  Hi Mr WUHU,
                  First, Thank you for your work on this program. I use it and think
                  it's GREAT. I've bought one of the "other" programs and found it
                  lacking in many ways.
                  Second, as to pws and support. I'm concerned as to where the whole
                  industry is going. Profit dives the manufacture. Interest drives the
                  user/customer, and weather interest drives a wholes set of providers
                  (WU, W4Y, and CWOP), and us, the hobbist. Makers don't seen, yet, to
                  be concerned about the software that's needed to link the hobbist to
                  the weather providers and that has left us to wander in the great WWW
                  on our own.
                  Currently two software developers, that I'm aware of, and have bought
                  or tried, sell their programs with all kinds of ui's to do all kinds
                  of things with different degrees of success imo.
                  In your thinking of going commerical, I will support you in that. I
                  guess the question for you is, "do I want to make this big of a
                  comitment?" Some how I think that timewise you already have.
                  Best wishes to you in whatever you decide.
                  Regards, Bob




                  --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
                  <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tony,
                  >
                  > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big
                  for
                  > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests for
                  > their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried
                  at
                  > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even tried
                  > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
                  >
                  > At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU will
                  no
                  > longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
                  > stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports
                  that
                  > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have reverse
                  > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
                  >
                  > The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations.
                  Mr
                  > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
                  > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
                  > their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
                  > that does have have a published protocol.
                  >
                  > The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is
                  not
                  > making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours
                  trying
                  > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.
                  >
                  > My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
                  > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
                  >
                  > You can however purchase one of the other two commercial packages,
                  > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
                  >
                  > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
                  >
                  > Best of luck.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <is0hha@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Dear WUHU.
                  > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support for
                  > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
                  > > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use
                  WUHU
                  > Software.
                  > > I hope in this feature.
                  > > Thanks in advance.
                  > >
                  > > Tony
                  > >
                  >
                • wuhu_software
                  Bob, I am not sure on the commerical idea yet. I appreciate your support. Thanks for the compliments. ... the ... providers ... to ... to ... WWW ... bought
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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                    Bob,

                    I am not sure on the commerical idea yet.

                    I appreciate your support.

                    Thanks for the compliments.


                    --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "RS Moreland"
                    <bobmoreland@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Mr WUHU,
                    > First, Thank you for your work on this program. I use it and think
                    > it's GREAT. I've bought one of the "other" programs and found it
                    > lacking in many ways.
                    > Second, as to pws and support. I'm concerned as to where the whole
                    > industry is going. Profit dives the manufacture. Interest drives
                    the
                    > user/customer, and weather interest drives a wholes set of
                    providers
                    > (WU, W4Y, and CWOP), and us, the hobbist. Makers don't seen, yet,
                    to
                    > be concerned about the software that's needed to link the hobbist
                    to
                    > the weather providers and that has left us to wander in the great
                    WWW
                    > on our own.
                    > Currently two software developers, that I'm aware of, and have
                    bought
                    > or tried, sell their programs with all kinds of ui's to do all
                    kinds
                    > of things with different degrees of success imo.
                    > In your thinking of going commerical, I will support you in that. I
                    > guess the question for you is, "do I want to make this big of a
                    > comitment?" Some how I think that timewise you already have.
                    > Best wishes to you in whatever you decide.
                    > Regards, Bob
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
                    > <wuhu_software@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Tony,
                    > >
                    > > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big
                    > for
                    > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests
                    for
                    > > their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried
                    > at
                    > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even
                    tried
                    > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
                    > >
                    > > At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU
                    will
                    > no
                    > > longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
                    > > stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports
                    > that
                    > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have
                    reverse
                    > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
                    > >
                    > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations.
                    > Mr
                    > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
                    > > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
                    > > their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
                    > > that does have have a published protocol.
                    > >
                    > > The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is
                    > not
                    > > making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours
                    > trying
                    > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.
                    > >
                    > > My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
                    > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
                    > >
                    > > You can however purchase one of the other two commercial
                    packages,
                    > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
                    > >
                    > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
                    > >
                    > > Best of luck.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <is0hha@>
                    wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
                    > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support
                    for
                    > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
                    > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use
                    > WUHU
                    > > Software.
                    > > > I hope in this feature.
                    > > > Thanks in advance.
                    > > >
                    > > > Tony
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Juha Jäntti
                    Eugen, What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when our local
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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                      Eugen,

                      What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my
                      view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when
                      our local distributor announced that WS-2300 and 2305 are no longer
                      available for sale and only WS-2308 was available. What I have seen is
                      that WS-230x stations are the best if you have a COM port on your
                      computer. I expect people will suffer some ill effects with the new
                      WS-2350 station, which is effectively the same as WS-2300, but it is
                      shipped with a USB-RS232 converter.

                      It's a nice handout from LaCrosse, but I've heard that the converter
                      doesn't work with all people. Of course one can take the converter off
                      and use the normal COM port instead but it's not a good business
                      strategy for LaCrosse to raise the price of the station by
                      implementing something with the baseline station that isn't
                      extensively tested. So if the converter doesn't work, you paid extra
                      for nothing. The price paid may be marginal (a few dollars/euros), but
                      it's still your money.

                      I think LaCrosse doesn't give a good nickle about what the weather
                      enthusiasts need and hope and just push new models into markets and
                      expect people to happily accept anything they offer. This sort of
                      ignorance makes me angry.

                      If their sales drop, they *might* rethink their strategy, but frankly,
                      I don't think they would do anything radical like bringing back their
                      most popular model for sale. They would probably modify their latest
                      model to better fit for the enthusiasts. It may still be not enough;
                      They will probably still force you to use their own software that
                      doesn't communicate with CWOP and others and keep the protol a secret
                      - again.

                      For the Peet Bros PWS, it not yet in use. I received it yesterday,
                      along with the package number 1 from the USA, containing the parts not
                      available right away from Germany. I'm still waiting for package 2,
                      containing the rain gauge I ordered a week ago. At first I have to
                      take down the LaCrosse station before I can install the Peet Bros station.

                      Once I get it online, I'll download the latest Beta version and notify
                      about it here. The station will transmit weather data to AWEKAS, CWOP
                      and Weather Underground, as does my WS-2305 station right now.

                      My station IDs are CW4473 for CWOP and IUUSIMAA2 for WU.

                      Best Regards,
                      Juha
                      Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                      Helsinki, Finland
                      CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2


                      --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                      <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                      > with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                      > luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                      > software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                      > will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                      > bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                      > that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                      > meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                      > different with Davis but considering the price,
                      > especially in a country like ours it's out of
                      > discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                      > successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                      > lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                      > enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                      > for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                      > rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                      > their products are not so expensive and reliable
                      > people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                      > they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                      > clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                      > you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                      > what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                      > congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                      > Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                      > data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                      > the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                      > http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oradea
                      > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Eugen,
                      > >
                      > > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                      > > LaCrosse and Oregon
                      > > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                      > > standard customers (or
                      > > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                      > > perfectly
                      > > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                      > > aggravating than first
                      > > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                      > > officially asking for
                      > > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                      > > e-mail back that says
                      > > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                      > > for an advice as to
                      > > who to contact for the information, you get no
                      > > response at all (it's
                      > > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                      > > to help you").
                      > >
                      > > As we get little or no response from their tech
                      > > support the only way
                      > > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                      > > is to start
                      > > telling people how their products are made, how they
                      > > work and where
                      > > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                      > > that they're
                      > > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                      > > tech support.
                      > > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                      > > station they really
                      > > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                      > > their ways.
                      > >
                      > > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                      > > bought my station
                      > > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                      > > Elektronik GmbH
                      > > (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived
                      > > today.
                      > > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                      > > going will be
                      > > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                      > > station but it will
                      > > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                      > > Davis station.
                      > >
                      > > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                      > > state and fast.
                      > > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                      > > only their level
                      > > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                      > > good intentions,
                      > > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                      > > reverse-engineering.
                      > >
                      > > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                      > > in more people
                      > > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                      > > weather data,
                      > > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                      > > more money for them.
                      > > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                      > > LaCrosse thanks
                      > > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                      > > by e-mailing back
                      > > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                      > > details of anything,
                      > > because you are an end-user".
                      > >
                      > > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                      > > alike if they don't
                      > > change their ways.
                      > >
                      > > Best Regards,
                      > > Juha
                      > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                      > > Helsinki, Finland
                      > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                      > >
                      > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                      > > Eugen
                      > > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                      > > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                      > > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                      > > absolutely
                      > > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                      > > > better but the problem is the price and the
                      > > shipping
                      > > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                      > > products
                      > > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                      > > my
                      > > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                      > > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                      > > least
                      > > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                      > > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                      > > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                      > > Crosse
                      > > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                      > > find
                      > > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                      > > matter.
                      > > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                      > > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                      > > request.
                      > > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                      > > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                      > > if
                      > > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                      > > agree ?
                      > > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                      > > you !
                      > > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                      > > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Hi Eugen.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                      > > WS-3650,
                      > > > > as it is
                      > > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                      > > difference
                      > > > > is the USB to
                      > > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                      > > > > protocols are unchanged.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                      > > but
                      > > > > anything else out
                      > > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                      > > > > will probably not be
                      > > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                      > > either
                      > > > > reverse engineer the
                      > > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                      > > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                      > > > > on their hands and give details of the
                      > > protocols.
                      > > > > Somehow I'm not
                      > > > > seeing the latter happening...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                      > > producing
                      > > > > and selling, I've
                      > > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                      > > LaCrosse
                      > > > > will pull the plug
                      > > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                      > > next
                      > > > > 3-5 years despite
                      > > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                      > > leave
                      > > > > the shelves and
                      > > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                      > > they
                      > > > > will still have
                      > > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                      > > but
                      > > > > for how long are
                      > > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                      > > like
                      > > > > this? They may
                      > > > > keep them available for several years after
                      > > WS-2308
                      > > > > is pulled off the
                      > > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                      > > > > decisions and looking at
                      > > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                      > > > > LaCrosse, we are
                      > > > > heading for troubled times.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                      > > > > started developing a
                      > > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                      > > stations.
                      > > > > When (and I
                      > > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                      > > > > community will feel the
                      > > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                      > > > > station is located
                      > > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                      > > have
                      > > > > tons of LaCrosse
                      > > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                      > > weather
                      > > > > data to CWOP and
                      > > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                      > > of
                      > > > > them when LaCrosse
                      > > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                      > > WS-2300/3600
                      > > > > line of products.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                      > > > > underway: I'm switching to
                      > >
                      > === message truncated ===
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                      >
                    • Radu Eugen
                      Dear Juha, I ve been thinking about this thing with La Crosse stations and somehow I guess they don t care too much about the people who want to use their
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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                        Dear Juha, I've been thinking about this thing with La Crosse stations and somehow I guess they don't care too much about the people who want to use their stations to transmit data on the internet. I've noticed that they tried to improve the response of their stations between the base stations and the outside sensors. Compared to 2300 series 3600 heavy weather pro software is improved, especially in the graphic part. They address their products to the clients not bothering too much in what purpose the clients want to use their stations. It's a pity that they don't see further down the line but that's the conclusion I came to. So the message is, if you don't like buy from somebody else. Now let's talk a little bit about Peet Bros, well, I studied their offer and I'm a little bit puzzled, I couldn't figure it out what is the time response between the base unit and the outside sensors, and the pressure if I remember correctly is between 900 and some millibars and 1080 or so. If I decide to take this station to a higher altittude what I'm I going to do with it ?! And one more thing, can you use your anemometer at 10 meters high and the temperature sensor at 2 meters at the same time ?! I expressed these questions to them but so far I got no answer. If you will install your station, please, write me how it works and if you discovered some informations that I couldn't get from their presentation. All the best and happy weather watching ! Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania

                        Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                        Eugen,

                        What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my
                        view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when
                        our local distributor announced that WS-2300 and 2305 are no longer
                        available for sale and only WS-2308 was available. What I have seen is
                        that WS-230x stations are the best if you have a COM port on your
                        computer. I expect people will suffer some ill effects with the new
                        WS-2350 station, which is effectively the same as WS-2300, but it is
                        shipped with a USB-RS232 converter.

                        It's a nice handout from LaCrosse, but I've heard that the converter
                        doesn't work with all people. Of course one can take the converter off
                        and use the normal COM port instead but it's not a good business
                        strategy for LaCrosse to raise the price of the station by
                        implementing something with the baseline station that isn't
                        extensively tested. So if the converter doesn't work, you paid extra
                        for nothing. The price paid may be marginal (a few dollars/euros) , but
                        it's still your money.

                        I think LaCrosse doesn't give a good nickle about what the weather
                        enthusiasts need and hope and just push new models into markets and
                        expect people to happily accept anything they offer. This sort of
                        ignorance makes me angry.

                        If their sales drop, they *might* rethink their strategy, but frankly,
                        I don't think they would do anything radical like bringing back their
                        most popular model for sale. They would probably modify their latest
                        model to better fit for the enthusiasts. It may still be not enough;
                        They will probably still force you to use their own software that
                        doesn't communicate with CWOP and others and keep the protol a secret
                        - again.

                        For the Peet Bros PWS, it not yet in use. I received it yesterday,
                        along with the package number 1 from the USA, containing the parts not
                        available right away from Germany. I'm still waiting for package 2,
                        containing the rain gauge I ordered a week ago. At first I have to
                        take down the LaCrosse station before I can install the Peet Bros station.

                        Once I get it online, I'll download the latest Beta version and notify
                        about it here. The station will transmit weather data to AWEKAS, CWOP
                        and Weather Underground, as does my WS-2305 station right now.

                        My station IDs are CW4473 for CWOP and IUUSIMAA2 for WU.

                        Best Regards,
                        Juha
                        Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                        Helsinki, Finland
                        CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2

                        --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, Radu Eugen
                        <eugenraduoradea@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                        > with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                        > luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                        > software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                        > will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                        > bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                        > that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                        > meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                        > different with Davis but considering the price,
                        > especially in a country like ours it's out of
                        > discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                        > successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                        > lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                        > enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                        > for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                        > rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                        > their products are not so expensive and reliable
                        > people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                        > they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                        > clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                        > you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                        > what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                        > congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                        > Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                        > data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                        > the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                        > http://www.wundergr ound.com/ cgi-bin/findweat her/getForecast? query=oradea
                        > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Eugen,
                        > >
                        > > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                        > > LaCrosse and Oregon
                        > > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                        > > standard customers (or
                        > > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                        > > perfectly
                        > > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                        > > aggravating than first
                        > > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                        > > officially asking for
                        > > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                        > > e-mail back that says
                        > > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                        > > for an advice as to
                        > > who to contact for the information, you get no
                        > > response at all (it's
                        > > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                        > > to help you").
                        > >
                        > > As we get little or no response from their tech
                        > > support the only way
                        > > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                        > > is to start
                        > > telling people how their products are made, how they
                        > > work and where
                        > > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                        > > that they're
                        > > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                        > > tech support.
                        > > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                        > > station they really
                        > > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                        > > their ways.
                        > >
                        > > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                        > > bought my station
                        > > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                        > > Elektronik GmbH
                        > > (http://www.wimo. com/frameset_ e.html) and it arrived
                        > > today.
                        > > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                        > > going will be
                        > > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                        > > station but it will
                        > > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                        > > Davis station.
                        > >
                        > > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                        > > state and fast.
                        > > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                        > > only their level
                        > > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                        > > good intentions,
                        > > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                        > > reverse-engineering .
                        > >
                        > > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                        > > in more people
                        > > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                        > > weather data,
                        > > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                        > > more money for them.
                        > > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                        > > LaCrosse thanks
                        > > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                        > > by e-mailing back
                        > > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                        > > details of anything,
                        > > because you are an end-user".
                        > >
                        > > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                        > > alike if they don't
                        > > change their ways.
                        > >
                        > > Best Regards,
                        > > Juha
                        > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                        > > Helsinki, Finland
                        > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                        > >
                        > > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, Radu
                        > > Eugen
                        > > <eugenraduoradea@ > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                        > > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                        > > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                        > > absolutely
                        > > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                        > > > better but the problem is the price and the
                        > > shipping
                        > > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                        > > products
                        > > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                        > > my
                        > > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                        > > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                        > > least
                        > > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                        > > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                        > > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                        > > Crosse
                        > > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                        > > find
                        > > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                        > > matter.
                        > > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                        > > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                        > > request.
                        > > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                        > > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                        > > if
                        > > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                        > > agree ?
                        > > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                        > > you !
                        > > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                        > > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > Hi Eugen.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                        > > WS-3650,
                        > > > > as it is
                        > > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                        > > difference
                        > > > > is the USB to
                        > > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                        > > > > protocols are unchanged.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                        > > but
                        > > > > anything else out
                        > > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                        > > > > will probably not be
                        > > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                        > > either
                        > > > > reverse engineer the
                        > > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                        > > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                        > > > > on their hands and give details of the
                        > > protocols.
                        > > > > Somehow I'm not
                        > > > > seeing the latter happening...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                        > > producing
                        > > > > and selling, I've
                        > > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                        > > LaCrosse
                        > > > > will pull the plug
                        > > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                        > > next
                        > > > > 3-5 years despite
                        > > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                        > > leave
                        > > > > the shelves and
                        > > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                        > > they
                        > > > > will still have
                        > > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                        > > but
                        > > > > for how long are
                        > > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                        > > like
                        > > > > this? They may
                        > > > > keep them available for several years after
                        > > WS-2308
                        > > > > is pulled off the
                        > > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                        > > > > decisions and looking at
                        > > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                        > > > > LaCrosse, we are
                        > > > > heading for troubled times.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                        > > > > started developing a
                        > > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                        > > stations.
                        > > > > When (and I
                        > > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                        > > > > community will feel the
                        > > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                        > > > > station is located
                        > > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                        > > have
                        > > > > tons of LaCrosse
                        > > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                        > > weather
                        > > > > data to CWOP and
                        > > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                        > > of
                        > > > > them when LaCrosse
                        > > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                        > > WS-2300/3600
                        > > > > line of products.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                        > > > > underway: I'm switching to
                        > >
                        > === message truncated ===
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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                      • Juha Jäntti
                        Eugen, The hard cold fact is that LaCrosse is nothing more than a reseller for a manufacturer located in Asia and HeavyWeather (maybe alongside with the comms
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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                          Eugen,

                          The hard cold fact is that LaCrosse is nothing more than a reseller
                          for a manufacturer located in Asia and HeavyWeather (maybe alongside
                          with the comms protocol) is done by a German subcontractor. This alone
                          makes it open to all kinds of risks like faulty or poorly written
                          software (=HeavyWeather and HW Publisher are good examples).

                          They did and succeeded in improving response times between WS-2300
                          series models, but they forgot to tell consumers, which of the
                          stations had this improved response time and the local distributor
                          couldn't tell the difference because the improved model was identical
                          to the older model. They did improve the humidity readout as well and
                          this one they *did* mention on the package.

                          Well, I just got the Peet Bros station out of the package and put it
                          to the test that everything, except the yet-to-arrive rain gauge, is
                          in working order.

                          In my tests I noticed that the anemometer readouts are pretty much
                          real-time and very sensitive. As I increased the airflow to the
                          anometer using compressed air, I saw the speed increase immediately
                          and as I decreased the airflow toward zero, I was able to get readouts
                          as low as 0,1 m/s. I've never seen that fast response and low readings
                          with LaCrosse sensors.

                          The outdoor temperature/humidity sensor seems to get readings every
                          5-10 seconds (I was only looking that the sensor was functioning and
                          reading temperature and humidity, I didn't time it).

                          For the barometric pressure, the range is between 931,3 and 1067,0 hPa
                          (698,5 to 800,0 mmHg / 27,5 to 31,5 inHg), so it's very suitable for
                          most environment, even higher altitudes).

                          You can use the anemometer that high and temperature sensor at 2
                          meters easily. The cables for the anemometer and temperature meter are
                          both separated from each other.

                          I will keep you informed how the installation goes, once I get it started.

                          Best Regards,
                          Juha
                          Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                          Helsinki, Finland
                          CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2


                          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                          <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Juha, I've been thinking about this thing with La Crosse
                          stations and somehow I guess they don't care too much about the people
                          who want to use their stations to transmit data on the internet. I've
                          noticed that they tried to improve the response of their stations
                          between the base stations and the outside sensors. Compared to 2300
                          series 3600 heavy weather pro software is improved, especially in the
                          graphic part. They address their products to the clients not bothering
                          too much in what purpose the clients want to use their stations. It's
                          a pity that they don't see further down the line but that's the
                          conclusion I came to. So the message is, if you don't like buy from
                          somebody else. Now let's talk a little bit about Peet Bros, well, I
                          studied their offer and I'm a little bit puzzled, I couldn't figure it
                          out what is the time response between the base unit and the outside
                          sensors, and the pressure if I remember correctly is between 900 and
                          some millibars and 1080 or so.
                          > If I decide to take this station to a higher altittude what I'm I
                          going to do with it ?! And one more thing, can you use your anemometer
                          at 10 meters high and the temperature sensor at 2 meters at the same
                          time ?! I expressed these questions to them but so far I got no
                          answer. If you will install your station, please, write me how it
                          works and if you discovered some informations that I couldn't get from
                          their presentation. All the best and happy weather watching ! Eugen
                          Radu, Oradea, Romania
                          >
                          > Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote: Eugen,
                          >
                          > What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my
                          > view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when
                          > our local distributor announced that WS-2300 and 2305 are no longer
                          > available for sale and only WS-2308 was available. What I have seen is
                          > that WS-230x stations are the best if you have a COM port on your
                          > computer. I expect people will suffer some ill effects with the new
                          > WS-2350 station, which is effectively the same as WS-2300, but it is
                          > shipped with a USB-RS232 converter.
                          >
                          > It's a nice handout from LaCrosse, but I've heard that the converter
                          > doesn't work with all people. Of course one can take the converter off
                          > and use the normal COM port instead but it's not a good business
                          > strategy for LaCrosse to raise the price of the station by
                          > implementing something with the baseline station that isn't
                          > extensively tested. So if the converter doesn't work, you paid extra
                          > for nothing. The price paid may be marginal (a few dollars/euros), but
                          > it's still your money.
                          >
                          > I think LaCrosse doesn't give a good nickle about what the weather
                          > enthusiasts need and hope and just push new models into markets and
                          > expect people to happily accept anything they offer. This sort of
                          > ignorance makes me angry.
                          >
                          > If their sales drop, they *might* rethink their strategy, but frankly,
                          > I don't think they would do anything radical like bringing back their
                          > most popular model for sale. They would probably modify their latest
                          > model to better fit for the enthusiasts. It may still be not enough;
                          > They will probably still force you to use their own software that
                          > doesn't communicate with CWOP and others and keep the protol a secret
                          > - again.
                          >
                          > For the Peet Bros PWS, it not yet in use. I received it yesterday,
                          > along with the package number 1 from the USA, containing the parts not
                          > available right away from Germany. I'm still waiting for package 2,
                          > containing the rain gauge I ordered a week ago. At first I have to
                          > take down the LaCrosse station before I can install the Peet Bros
                          station.
                          >
                          > Once I get it online, I'll download the latest Beta version and notify
                          > about it here. The station will transmit weather data to AWEKAS, CWOP
                          > and Weather Underground, as does my WS-2305 station right now.
                          >
                          > My station IDs are CW4473 for CWOP and IUUSIMAA2 for WU.
                          >
                          > Best Regards,
                          > Juha
                          > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                          > Helsinki, Finland
                          > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                          >
                          > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                          > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                          > > with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                          > > luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                          > > software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                          > > will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                          > > bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                          > > that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                          > > meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                          > > different with Davis but considering the price,
                          > > especially in a country like ours it's out of
                          > > discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                          > > successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                          > > lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                          > > enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                          > > for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                          > > rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                          > > their products are not so expensive and reliable
                          > > people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                          > > they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                          > > clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                          > > you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                          > > what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                          > > congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                          > > Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                          > > data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                          > > the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                          > >
                          http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oradea
                          > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Eugen,
                          > > >
                          > > > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                          > > > LaCrosse and Oregon
                          > > > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                          > > > standard customers (or
                          > > > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                          > > > perfectly
                          > > > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                          > > > aggravating than first
                          > > > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                          > > > officially asking for
                          > > > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                          > > > e-mail back that says
                          > > > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                          > > > for an advice as to
                          > > > who to contact for the information, you get no
                          > > > response at all (it's
                          > > > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                          > > > to help you").
                          > > >
                          > > > As we get little or no response from their tech
                          > > > support the only way
                          > > > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                          > > > is to start
                          > > > telling people how their products are made, how they
                          > > > work and where
                          > > > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                          > > > that they're
                          > > > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                          > > > tech support.
                          > > > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                          > > > station they really
                          > > > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                          > > > their ways.
                          > > >
                          > > > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                          > > > bought my station
                          > > > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                          > > > Elektronik GmbH
                          > > > (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived
                          > > > today.
                          > > > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                          > > > going will be
                          > > > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                          > > > station but it will
                          > > > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                          > > > Davis station.
                          > > >
                          > > > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                          > > > state and fast.
                          > > > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                          > > > only their level
                          > > > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                          > > > good intentions,
                          > > > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                          > > > reverse-engineering.
                          > > >
                          > > > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                          > > > in more people
                          > > > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                          > > > weather data,
                          > > > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                          > > > more money for them.
                          > > > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                          > > > LaCrosse thanks
                          > > > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                          > > > by e-mailing back
                          > > > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                          > > > details of anything,
                          > > > because you are an end-user".
                          > > >
                          > > > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                          > > > alike if they don't
                          > > > change their ways.
                          > > >
                          > > > Best Regards,
                          > > > Juha
                          > > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                          > > > Helsinki, Finland
                          > > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                          > > > Eugen
                          > > > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                          > > > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                          > > > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                          > > > absolutely
                          > > > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                          > > > > better but the problem is the price and the
                          > > > shipping
                          > > > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                          > > > products
                          > > > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                          > > > my
                          > > > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                          > > > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                          > > > least
                          > > > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                          > > > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                          > > > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                          > > > Crosse
                          > > > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                          > > > find
                          > > > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                          > > > matter.
                          > > > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                          > > > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                          > > > request.
                          > > > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                          > > > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                          > > > if
                          > > > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                          > > > agree ?
                          > > > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                          > > > you !
                          > > > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                          > > > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > Hi Eugen.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                          > > > WS-3650,
                          > > > > > as it is
                          > > > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                          > > > difference
                          > > > > > is the USB to
                          > > > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                          > > > > > protocols are unchanged.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                          > > > but
                          > > > > > anything else out
                          > > > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                          > > > > > will probably not be
                          > > > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                          > > > either
                          > > > > > reverse engineer the
                          > > > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                          > > > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                          > > > > > on their hands and give details of the
                          > > > protocols.
                          > > > > > Somehow I'm not
                          > > > > > seeing the latter happening...
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                          > > > producing
                          > > > > > and selling, I've
                          > > > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                          > > > LaCrosse
                          > > > > > will pull the plug
                          > > > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                          > > > next
                          > > > > > 3-5 years despite
                          > > > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                          > > > leave
                          > > > > > the shelves and
                          > > > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                          > > > they
                          > > > > > will still have
                          > > > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                          > > > but
                          > > > > > for how long are
                          > > > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                          > > > like
                          > > > > > this? They may
                          > > > > > keep them available for several years after
                          > > > WS-2308
                          > > > > > is pulled off the
                          > > > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                          > > > > > decisions and looking at
                          > > > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                          > > > > > LaCrosse, we are
                          > > > > > heading for troubled times.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                          > > > > > started developing a
                          > > > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                          > > > stations.
                          > > > > > When (and I
                          > > > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                          > > > > > community will feel the
                          > > > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                          > > > > > station is located
                          > > > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                          > > > have
                          > > > > > tons of LaCrosse
                          > > > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                          > > > weather
                          > > > > > data to CWOP and
                          > > > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                          > > > of
                          > > > > > them when LaCrosse
                          > > > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                          > > > WS-2300/3600
                          > > > > > line of products.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                          > > > > > underway: I'm switching to
                          > > >
                          > > === message truncated ===
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > __________________________________________________________
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