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Re: [wuhu_software_group] Re: WMR-100 Support

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  • D Doty
    Thank You, (Keith, I think) WUHU-Software. I am a relatively new member of the weather community, although I have studied the weather for many years as an
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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      Thank You, (Keith, I think) WUHU-Software.
      I am a relatively new member of the weather community, although I have studied the weather for many years as an active pilot.
      I am currently running a OS WMR 968 after having had several problems with my La Cross 2308 including a total failure of the rain gauge.
      The WMR 968 is performing well but I have doubts of the accuracy.
      I will return (briefly) to the US from Asia next month. I fully intend to obtain a Davis Pro system to bring back with me on my return.
      I also have a close friend who lives in Colorado (Deer Trail) outside of Denver. I have advised him that the Davis Pro is the system to get. He will obtain and install the system this year.
      Please continue your efforts to support all systems, but I understand your frustrations in trying to support systems that do not contribute to your efforts.
      All need to understand that most users WANT to contribute their data to anyone in the world who is interested.
      Dennis Doty
      IZAMBALE1
      CWOP 7056
      oldcessna21@...

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...>
      To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 1:49:26 PM
      Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: WMR-100 Support

      Tony,

      I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big for
      their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests for
      their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried at
      least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even tried
      to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.

      At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU will no
      longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
      stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports that
      protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have reverse
      engineered their protocol through hours of toil.

      The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations. Mr
      WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
      technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
      their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
      that does have have a published protocol.

      The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is not
      making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours trying
      to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.

      My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
      like Davis or Peet Brothers.

      You can however purchase one of the other two commercial packages,
      apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.

      I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.

      Best of luck.

      --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, "Tony" <is0hha@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Dear WUHU.
      > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support for
      the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
      > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use WUHU
      Software.
      > I hope in this feature.
      > Thanks in advance.
      >
      > Tony
      >




      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
    • wuhu_software
      Eugen, I do not know if the new stations emulate the protocol of the WS-23XX or WS-36XX series. I did see a screen shot of new software that was not HW or HW
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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        Eugen,

        I do not know if the new stations emulate the protocol of the WS-23XX
        or WS-36XX series. I did see a screen shot of 'new' software that was
        not HW or HW Pro, so who knows what La Crosse has brewed up this time.

        If they have changed their protocol yet again, you might be stuck
        with 1 minute updates using the currdat.lst monitoring method. I will
        not be supporting them or OS or anyone else that does not open up
        their station.

        Thanks.


        --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
        <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the WUHU
        > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What new
        > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
        > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my station is
        > already active will it continue to send data due to
        > the WUHU software in the future ?
        > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
        > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon concerning
        > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu, Oradea,
        > Romania
        > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Tony,
        > >
        > > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently
        > > OS is too big for
        > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to
        > > the requests for
        > > their protocol from software developers like myself.
        > > I have tried at
        > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
        > > once. I even tried
        > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
        > >
        > > At this point I would like to make the announcement
        > > that WUHU will no
        > > longer support any OS weather stations other than
        > > the WMR-9X8
        > > stations that it current supports. The only reason
        > > WUHU supports that
        > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
        > > that have reverse
        > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
        > >
        > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
        > > Crosse stations. Mr
        > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr.
        > > free La Crosse
        > > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently
        > > unworthy of
        > > their protocol) will no longer support any station
        > > from La Crosse
        > > that does have have a published protocol.
        > >
        > > The same will be true for any other station
        > > manufacturers who is not
        > > making their protocol available. I have spent hours
        > > upon hours trying
        > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially
        > > done with it.
        > >
        > > My advice is to find station that has a well
        > > documented protocol,
        > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
        > >
        > > You can however purchase one of the other two
        > > commercial packages,
        > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
        > >
        > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
        > >
        > > Best of luck.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony"
        > > <is0hha@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
        > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add
        > > the support for
        > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
        > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
        > > continue to use WUHU
        > > Software.
        > > > I hope in this feature.
        > > > Thanks in advance.
        > > >
        > > > Tony
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        ______________
        > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
        > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
        >
      • wuhu_software
        Dennis, I will have the Davis VP2 support done soon. The support will be there within the next week at the current pace. I have already added support for the
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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          Dennis,

          I will have the Davis VP2 support done soon. The support will be
          there within the next week at the current pace.

          I have already added support for the live data, I need to now study
          the logging capability of the Davis.

          From what I see so far, you cannot go wrong with a Davis.

          Thanks.


          --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, D Doty <oldcessna21@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thank You, (Keith, I think) WUHU-Software.
          > I am a relatively new member of the weather community, although I
          have studied the weather for many years as an active pilot.
          > I am currently running a OS WMR 968 after having had several
          problems with my La Cross 2308 including a total failure of the rain
          gauge.
          > The WMR 968 is performing well but I have doubts of the accuracy.
          > I will return (briefly) to the US from Asia next month. I fully
          intend to obtain a Davis Pro system to bring back with me on my
          return.
          > I also have a close friend who lives in Colorado (Deer Trail)
          outside of Denver. I have advised him that the Davis Pro is the
          system to get. He will obtain and install the system this year.
          > Please continue your efforts to support all systems, but I
          understand your frustrations in trying to support systems that do not
          contribute to your efforts.
          > All need to understand that most users WANT to contribute their
          data to anyone in the world who is interested.
          > Dennis Doty
          > IZAMBALE1
          > CWOP 7056
          > oldcessna21@...
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...>
          > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 1:49:26 PM
          > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: WMR-100 Support
          >
          > Tony,
          >
          > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big
          for
          > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests for
          > their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried
          at
          > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even tried
          > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
          >
          > At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU will
          no
          > longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
          > stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports
          that
          > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have reverse
          > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
          >
          > The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations.
          Mr
          > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
          > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
          > their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
          > that does have have a published protocol.
          >
          > The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is
          not
          > making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours
          trying
          > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.
          >
          > My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
          > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
          >
          > You can however purchase one of the other two commercial packages,
          > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
          >
          > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
          >
          > Best of luck.
          >
          > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, "Tony" <is0hha@>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Dear WUHU.
          > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support for
          > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
          > > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use
          WUHU
          > Software.
          > > I hope in this feature.
          > > Thanks in advance.
          > >
          > > Tony
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Juha Jäntti
          Hi Eugen. I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650, as it is practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference is the USB to RS232 converter that
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Eugen.

            I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650, as it is
            practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference is the USB to
            RS232 converter that comes with the station. The protocols are unchanged.

            I know you all will hate me for saying all this, but anything else out
            of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations will probably not be
            supported unless someone is kind enough to either reverse engineer the
            new protocols these new stations are using or LaCrosse stops sitting
            on their hands and give details of the protocols. Somehow I'm not
            seeing the latter happening...

            Looking at the stations they are currently producing and selling, I've
            starting to have a distinct feeling that LaCrosse will pull the plug
            on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the next 3-5 years despite
            community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305 leave the shelves and
            next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course, they will still have
            the USB to serial converted models available, but for how long are
            they going to last if the current situation is like this? They may
            keep them available for several years after WS-2308 is pulled off the
            shelf completely. We are dependant on their decisions and looking at
            how much we, as a community can do to persuade LaCrosse, we are
            heading for troubled times.

            I sincerely hope people start or have already started developing a
            contigency/backup plans for their weather stations. When (and I
            emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather community will feel the
            impact within a year or two, depending where the station is located
            and what kind of climate they're put into. We have tons of LaCrosse
            stations located around the globe, sending weather data to CWOP and
            other services. I fear we will lose a big number of them when LaCrosse
            decides to give a killing blow on their WS-2300/3600 line of products.

            I have a contigency plan set up and already underway: I'm switching to
            Peet Bros and all for a good reason. I'm utterly dissappointed with
            LaCrosse's support and their strange decisions for removal of weather
            station models without any prior warning. What makes my plan
            interested is that my forthcoming station is probably the first Peet
            Bros Ultimeter 2100 station in Finland (According to searches by
            Google and references to other nearby stations, which are mostly Davis
            and LaCrosse models).

            Please do remember, that these are only my predictions and opinions of
            things to come. I have no idea, what's going on at LaCrosse or what
            their plans really are but using common sense and logic, I came up
            with this prediction.

            Best Regards,
            Juha
            Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
            Helsinki, Finland
            CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2


            --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
            <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the WUHU
            > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What new
            > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
            > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my station is
            > already active will it continue to send data due to
            > the WUHU software in the future ?
            > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
            > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon concerning
            > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu, Oradea,
            > Romania
            > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Tony,
            > >
            > > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently
            > > OS is too big for
            > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to
            > > the requests for
            > > their protocol from software developers like myself.
            > > I have tried at
            > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
            > > once. I even tried
            > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
            > >
            > > At this point I would like to make the announcement
            > > that WUHU will no
            > > longer support any OS weather stations other than
            > > the WMR-9X8
            > > stations that it current supports. The only reason
            > > WUHU supports that
            > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
            > > that have reverse
            > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
            > >
            > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
            > > Crosse stations. Mr
            > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr.
            > > free La Crosse
            > > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently
            > > unworthy of
            > > their protocol) will no longer support any station
            > > from La Crosse
            > > that does have have a published protocol.
            > >
            > > The same will be true for any other station
            > > manufacturers who is not
            > > making their protocol available. I have spent hours
            > > upon hours trying
            > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially
            > > done with it.
            > >
            > > My advice is to find station that has a well
            > > documented protocol,
            > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
            > >
            > > You can however purchase one of the other two
            > > commercial packages,
            > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
            > >
            > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
            > >
            > > Best of luck.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony"
            > > <is0hha@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
            > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add
            > > the support for
            > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
            > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
            > > continue to use WUHU
            > > Software.
            > > > I hope in this feature.
            > > > Thanks in advance.
            > > >
            > > > Tony
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
            >
          • Radu Eugen
            Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I m absolutely sure
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
              those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
              their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm absolutely
              sure that american brands weather stations are far
              better but the problem is the price and the shipping
              across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse products
              because I have a distributor of their products in my
              own town. Oregon products are not available in our
              country, they have no interest to come here, at least
              that's what they said. In case that things will go
              wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
              Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La Crosse
              guys and express my concern and I'm interested to find
              out what is their point of view regarding this matter.
              I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
              convince them maybe they will hear people's request.
              After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
              product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you, if
              not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you agree ?
              All the best and I would like to hear more from you !
              Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
              --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:

              > Hi Eugen.
              >
              > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650,
              > as it is
              > practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference
              > is the USB to
              > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
              > protocols are unchanged.
              >
              > I know you all will hate me for saying all this, but
              > anything else out
              > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
              > will probably not be
              > supported unless someone is kind enough to either
              > reverse engineer the
              > new protocols these new stations are using or
              > LaCrosse stops sitting
              > on their hands and give details of the protocols.
              > Somehow I'm not
              > seeing the latter happening...
              >
              > Looking at the stations they are currently producing
              > and selling, I've
              > starting to have a distinct feeling that LaCrosse
              > will pull the plug
              > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the next
              > 3-5 years despite
              > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305 leave
              > the shelves and
              > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course, they
              > will still have
              > the USB to serial converted models available, but
              > for how long are
              > they going to last if the current situation is like
              > this? They may
              > keep them available for several years after WS-2308
              > is pulled off the
              > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
              > decisions and looking at
              > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
              > LaCrosse, we are
              > heading for troubled times.
              >
              > I sincerely hope people start or have already
              > started developing a
              > contigency/backup plans for their weather stations.
              > When (and I
              > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
              > community will feel the
              > impact within a year or two, depending where the
              > station is located
              > and what kind of climate they're put into. We have
              > tons of LaCrosse
              > stations located around the globe, sending weather
              > data to CWOP and
              > other services. I fear we will lose a big number of
              > them when LaCrosse
              > decides to give a killing blow on their WS-2300/3600
              > line of products.
              >
              > I have a contigency plan set up and already
              > underway: I'm switching to
              > Peet Bros and all for a good reason. I'm utterly
              > dissappointed with
              > LaCrosse's support and their strange decisions for
              > removal of weather
              > station models without any prior warning. What makes
              > my plan
              > interested is that my forthcoming station is
              > probably the first Peet
              > Bros Ultimeter 2100 station in Finland (According to
              > searches by
              > Google and references to other nearby stations,
              > which are mostly Davis
              > and LaCrosse models).
              >
              > Please do remember, that these are only my
              > predictions and opinions of
              > things to come. I have no idea, what's going on at
              > LaCrosse or what
              > their plans really are but using common sense and
              > logic, I came up
              > with this prediction.
              >
              > Best Regards,
              > Juha
              > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
              > Helsinki, Finland
              > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
              >
              >
              > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
              > Eugen
              > <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the
              > WUHU
              > > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What
              > new
              > > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
              > > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my
              > station is
              > > already active will it continue to send data due
              > to
              > > the WUHU software in the future ?
              > > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
              > > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon
              > concerning
              > > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu,
              > Oradea,
              > > Romania
              > > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Tony,
              > > >
              > > > I sure would have supported the WMR100,
              > apparently
              > > > OS is too big for
              > > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond
              > to
              > > > the requests for
              > > > their protocol from software developers like
              > myself.
              > > > I have tried at
              > > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
              > > > once. I even tried
              > > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
              > > >
              > > > At this point I would like to make the
              > announcement
              > > > that WUHU will no
              > > > longer support any OS weather stations other
              > than
              > > > the WMR-9X8
              > > > stations that it current supports. The only
              > reason
              > > > WUHU supports that
              > > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
              > > > that have reverse
              > > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
              > > >
              > > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
              > > > Crosse stations. Mr
              > > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka,
              > Mr.
              > > > free La Crosse
              > > > technical support, aka "home user" who is
              > apparently
              > > > unworthy of
              > > > their protocol) will no longer support any
              > station
              > > > from La Crosse
              > > > that does have have a published protocol.
              > > >
              > > > The same will be true for any other station
              > > > manufacturers who is not
              > > > making their protocol available. I have spent
              > hours
              > > > upon hours trying
              > > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am
              > officially
              > > > done with it.
              > > >
              > > > My advice is to find station that has a well
              > > > documented protocol,
              > > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
              > > >
              > > > You can however purchase one of the other two
              > > > commercial packages,
              > > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La
              > Crosse.
              > > >
              > > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
              > > >
              > > > Best of luck.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
              > "Tony"
              > > > <is0hha@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
              > > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to
              > add
              > > > the support for
              > > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
              > > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
              > > > continue to use WUHU
              > > > Software.
              > > > > I hope in this feature.
              > > > > Thanks in advance.
              > > > >
              > > > > Tony
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              === message truncated ===



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            • Juha Jäntti
              Eugen, Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with LaCrosse and Oregon Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as standard customers (or consumers ,
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Eugen,

                Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with LaCrosse and Oregon
                Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as standard customers (or
                "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I perfectly
                understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more aggravating than first
                sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and officially asking for
                information and after *days* of waiting, get an e-mail back that says
                "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking for an advice as to
                who to contact for the information, you get no response at all (it's
                all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going to help you").

                As we get little or no response from their tech support the only way
                we can really convince them to change their behavior is to start
                telling people how their products are made, how they work and where
                applicable, make negative reviews, telling people that they're
                practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse tech support.
                Eventually people will start looking for a weather station they really
                can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change their ways.

                Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I bought my station
                from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und Elektronik GmbH
                (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived today.
                The price with all the needed supplies to get you going will be
                somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600 station but it will
                still be less than what you would have to pay for a Davis station.

                I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy state and fast.
                LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's only their level
                of service and closed attitude toward people with good intentions,
                like Heath and those involved in protocol reverse-engineering.

                Heath has made a software that has likely resulted in more people
                investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send weather data,
                which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and more money for them.
                Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and LaCrosse thanks
                him answering to a kind and perfectly official query by e-mailing back
                the words: "No, we're not going to give you any details of anything,
                because you are an end-user".

                They will start losing customers and enthusiasts alike if they don't
                change their ways.

                Best Regards,
                Juha
                Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                Helsinki, Finland
                CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2

                --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm absolutely
                > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                > better but the problem is the price and the shipping
                > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse products
                > because I have a distributor of their products in my
                > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                > country, they have no interest to come here, at least
                > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La Crosse
                > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to find
                > out what is their point of view regarding this matter.
                > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                > convince them maybe they will hear people's request.
                > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you, if
                > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you agree ?
                > All the best and I would like to hear more from you !
                > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi Eugen.
                > >
                > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse WS-3650,
                > > as it is
                > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only difference
                > > is the USB to
                > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                > > protocols are unchanged.
                > >
                > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this, but
                > > anything else out
                > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                > > will probably not be
                > > supported unless someone is kind enough to either
                > > reverse engineer the
                > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                > > on their hands and give details of the protocols.
                > > Somehow I'm not
                > > seeing the latter happening...
                > >
                > > Looking at the stations they are currently producing
                > > and selling, I've
                > > starting to have a distinct feeling that LaCrosse
                > > will pull the plug
                > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the next
                > > 3-5 years despite
                > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305 leave
                > > the shelves and
                > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course, they
                > > will still have
                > > the USB to serial converted models available, but
                > > for how long are
                > > they going to last if the current situation is like
                > > this? They may
                > > keep them available for several years after WS-2308
                > > is pulled off the
                > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                > > decisions and looking at
                > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                > > LaCrosse, we are
                > > heading for troubled times.
                > >
                > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                > > started developing a
                > > contigency/backup plans for their weather stations.
                > > When (and I
                > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                > > community will feel the
                > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                > > station is located
                > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We have
                > > tons of LaCrosse
                > > stations located around the globe, sending weather
                > > data to CWOP and
                > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number of
                > > them when LaCrosse
                > > decides to give a killing blow on their WS-2300/3600
                > > line of products.
                > >
                > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                > > underway: I'm switching to
                > > Peet Bros and all for a good reason. I'm utterly
                > > dissappointed with
                > > LaCrosse's support and their strange decisions for
                > > removal of weather
                > > station models without any prior warning. What makes
                > > my plan
                > > interested is that my forthcoming station is
                > > probably the first Peet
                > > Bros Ultimeter 2100 station in Finland (According to
                > > searches by
                > > Google and references to other nearby stations,
                > > which are mostly Davis
                > > and LaCrosse models).
                > >
                > > Please do remember, that these are only my
                > > predictions and opinions of
                > > things to come. I have no idea, what's going on at
                > > LaCrosse or what
                > > their plans really are but using common sense and
                > > logic, I came up
                > > with this prediction.
                > >
                > > Best Regards,
                > > Juha
                > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                > > Helsinki, Finland
                > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                > > Eugen
                > > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello, as I understand do you intend to cease the
                > > WUHU
                > > > assistance to stations like La Crosse too ? What
                > > new
                > > > modells do you think of ? Will LC 3600 or 3650
                > > > continue to work with WUHU software ? If my
                > > station is
                > > > already active will it continue to send data due
                > > to
                > > > the WUHU software in the future ?
                > > > I share your bitterness towards the narrow minded
                > > > people who manufacture La Crosse or Oregon
                > > concerning
                > > > the protocol issue. All the best, Eugen Radu,
                > > Oradea,
                > > > Romania
                > > > --- wuhu_software <wuhu_software@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > Tony,
                > > > >
                > > > > I sure would have supported the WMR100,
                > > apparently
                > > > > OS is too big for
                > > > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond
                > > to
                > > > > the requests for
                > > > > their protocol from software developers like
                > > myself.
                > > > > I have tried at
                > > > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond
                > > > > once. I even tried
                > > > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
                > > > >
                > > > > At this point I would like to make the
                > > announcement
                > > > > that WUHU will no
                > > > > longer support any OS weather stations other
                > > than
                > > > > the WMR-9X8
                > > > > stations that it current supports. The only
                > > reason
                > > > > WUHU supports that
                > > > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals
                > > > > that have reverse
                > > > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
                > > > >
                > > > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La
                > > > > Crosse stations. Mr
                > > > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka,
                > > Mr.
                > > > > free La Crosse
                > > > > technical support, aka "home user" who is
                > > apparently
                > > > > unworthy of
                > > > > their protocol) will no longer support any
                > > station
                > > > > from La Crosse
                > > > > that does have have a published protocol.
                > > > >
                > > > > The same will be true for any other station
                > > > > manufacturers who is not
                > > > > making their protocol available. I have spent
                > > hours
                > > > > upon hours trying
                > > > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am
                > > officially
                > > > > done with it.
                > > > >
                > > > > My advice is to find station that has a well
                > > > > documented protocol,
                > > > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
                > > > >
                > > > > You can however purchase one of the other two
                > > > > commercial packages,
                > > > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La
                > > Crosse.
                > > > >
                > > > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
                > > > >
                > > > > Best of luck.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "Tony"
                > > > > <is0hha@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
                > > > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to
                > > add
                > > > > the support for
                > > > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
                > > > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want
                > > > > continue to use WUHU
                > > > > Software.
                > > > > > I hope in this feature.
                > > > > > Thanks in advance.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Tony
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > === message truncated ===
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                >
              • Radu Eugen
                Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today with the local distributor of La Crosse products and luckily all the modells he sells can be used with
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                  with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                  luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                  software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                  will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                  bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                  that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                  meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                  different with Davis but considering the price,
                  especially in a country like ours it's out of
                  discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                  successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                  lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                  enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                  for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                  rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                  their products are not so expensive and reliable
                  people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                  they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                  clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                  you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                  what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                  congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                  Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                  data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                  the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                  http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oradea
                  --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:

                  > Eugen,
                  >
                  > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                  > LaCrosse and Oregon
                  > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                  > standard customers (or
                  > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                  > perfectly
                  > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                  > aggravating than first
                  > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                  > officially asking for
                  > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                  > e-mail back that says
                  > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                  > for an advice as to
                  > who to contact for the information, you get no
                  > response at all (it's
                  > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                  > to help you").
                  >
                  > As we get little or no response from their tech
                  > support the only way
                  > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                  > is to start
                  > telling people how their products are made, how they
                  > work and where
                  > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                  > that they're
                  > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                  > tech support.
                  > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                  > station they really
                  > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                  > their ways.
                  >
                  > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                  > bought my station
                  > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                  > Elektronik GmbH
                  > (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived
                  > today.
                  > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                  > going will be
                  > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                  > station but it will
                  > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                  > Davis station.
                  >
                  > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                  > state and fast.
                  > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                  > only their level
                  > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                  > good intentions,
                  > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                  > reverse-engineering.
                  >
                  > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                  > in more people
                  > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                  > weather data,
                  > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                  > more money for them.
                  > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                  > LaCrosse thanks
                  > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                  > by e-mailing back
                  > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                  > details of anything,
                  > because you are an end-user".
                  >
                  > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                  > alike if they don't
                  > change their ways.
                  >
                  > Best Regards,
                  > Juha
                  > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                  > Helsinki, Finland
                  > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                  >
                  > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                  > Eugen
                  > <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                  > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                  > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                  > absolutely
                  > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                  > > better but the problem is the price and the
                  > shipping
                  > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                  > products
                  > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                  > my
                  > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                  > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                  > least
                  > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                  > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                  > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                  > Crosse
                  > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                  > find
                  > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                  > matter.
                  > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                  > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                  > request.
                  > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                  > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                  > if
                  > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                  > agree ?
                  > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                  > you !
                  > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                  > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Hi Eugen.
                  > > >
                  > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                  > WS-3650,
                  > > > as it is
                  > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                  > difference
                  > > > is the USB to
                  > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                  > > > protocols are unchanged.
                  > > >
                  > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                  > but
                  > > > anything else out
                  > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                  > > > will probably not be
                  > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                  > either
                  > > > reverse engineer the
                  > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                  > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                  > > > on their hands and give details of the
                  > protocols.
                  > > > Somehow I'm not
                  > > > seeing the latter happening...
                  > > >
                  > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                  > producing
                  > > > and selling, I've
                  > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                  > LaCrosse
                  > > > will pull the plug
                  > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                  > next
                  > > > 3-5 years despite
                  > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                  > leave
                  > > > the shelves and
                  > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                  > they
                  > > > will still have
                  > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                  > but
                  > > > for how long are
                  > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                  > like
                  > > > this? They may
                  > > > keep them available for several years after
                  > WS-2308
                  > > > is pulled off the
                  > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                  > > > decisions and looking at
                  > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                  > > > LaCrosse, we are
                  > > > heading for troubled times.
                  > > >
                  > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                  > > > started developing a
                  > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                  > stations.
                  > > > When (and I
                  > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                  > > > community will feel the
                  > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                  > > > station is located
                  > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                  > have
                  > > > tons of LaCrosse
                  > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                  > weather
                  > > > data to CWOP and
                  > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                  > of
                  > > > them when LaCrosse
                  > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                  > WS-2300/3600
                  > > > line of products.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                  > > > underway: I'm switching to
                  >
                  === message truncated ===



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                • RS Moreland
                  Hi Mr WUHU, First, Thank you for your work on this program. I use it and think it s GREAT. I ve bought one of the other programs and found it lacking in many
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Mr WUHU,
                    First, Thank you for your work on this program. I use it and think
                    it's GREAT. I've bought one of the "other" programs and found it
                    lacking in many ways.
                    Second, as to pws and support. I'm concerned as to where the whole
                    industry is going. Profit dives the manufacture. Interest drives the
                    user/customer, and weather interest drives a wholes set of providers
                    (WU, W4Y, and CWOP), and us, the hobbist. Makers don't seen, yet, to
                    be concerned about the software that's needed to link the hobbist to
                    the weather providers and that has left us to wander in the great WWW
                    on our own.
                    Currently two software developers, that I'm aware of, and have bought
                    or tried, sell their programs with all kinds of ui's to do all kinds
                    of things with different degrees of success imo.
                    In your thinking of going commerical, I will support you in that. I
                    guess the question for you is, "do I want to make this big of a
                    comitment?" Some how I think that timewise you already have.
                    Best wishes to you in whatever you decide.
                    Regards, Bob




                    --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
                    <wuhu_software@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Tony,
                    >
                    > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big
                    for
                    > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests for
                    > their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried
                    at
                    > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even tried
                    > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
                    >
                    > At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU will
                    no
                    > longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
                    > stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports
                    that
                    > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have reverse
                    > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
                    >
                    > The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations.
                    Mr
                    > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
                    > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
                    > their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
                    > that does have have a published protocol.
                    >
                    > The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is
                    not
                    > making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours
                    trying
                    > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.
                    >
                    > My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
                    > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
                    >
                    > You can however purchase one of the other two commercial packages,
                    > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
                    >
                    > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
                    >
                    > Best of luck.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <is0hha@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Dear WUHU.
                    > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support for
                    > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
                    > > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use
                    WUHU
                    > Software.
                    > > I hope in this feature.
                    > > Thanks in advance.
                    > >
                    > > Tony
                    > >
                    >
                  • wuhu_software
                    Bob, I am not sure on the commerical idea yet. I appreciate your support. Thanks for the compliments. ... the ... providers ... to ... to ... WWW ... bought
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bob,

                      I am not sure on the commerical idea yet.

                      I appreciate your support.

                      Thanks for the compliments.


                      --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "RS Moreland"
                      <bobmoreland@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Mr WUHU,
                      > First, Thank you for your work on this program. I use it and think
                      > it's GREAT. I've bought one of the "other" programs and found it
                      > lacking in many ways.
                      > Second, as to pws and support. I'm concerned as to where the whole
                      > industry is going. Profit dives the manufacture. Interest drives
                      the
                      > user/customer, and weather interest drives a wholes set of
                      providers
                      > (WU, W4Y, and CWOP), and us, the hobbist. Makers don't seen, yet,
                      to
                      > be concerned about the software that's needed to link the hobbist
                      to
                      > the weather providers and that has left us to wander in the great
                      WWW
                      > on our own.
                      > Currently two software developers, that I'm aware of, and have
                      bought
                      > or tried, sell their programs with all kinds of ui's to do all
                      kinds
                      > of things with different degrees of success imo.
                      > In your thinking of going commerical, I will support you in that. I
                      > guess the question for you is, "do I want to make this big of a
                      > comitment?" Some how I think that timewise you already have.
                      > Best wishes to you in whatever you decide.
                      > Regards, Bob
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
                      > <wuhu_software@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Tony,
                      > >
                      > > I sure would have supported the WMR100, apparently OS is too big
                      > for
                      > > their britches to have the courtesy to respond to the requests
                      for
                      > > their protocol from software developers like myself. I have tried
                      > at
                      > > least 4 times, they have not bothered to respond once. I even
                      tried
                      > > to reach "HQ" in Asia without success.
                      > >
                      > > At this point I would like to make the announcement that WUHU
                      will
                      > no
                      > > longer support any OS weather stations other than the WMR-9X8
                      > > stations that it current supports. The only reason WUHU supports
                      > that
                      > > protocol is due to the dedication of individuals that have
                      reverse
                      > > engineered their protocol through hours of toil.
                      > >
                      > > The same can be said of the yet to be release La Crosse stations.
                      > Mr
                      > > WUHU (as I am affectionately refered to, aka, Mr. free La Crosse
                      > > technical support, aka "home user" who is apparently unworthy of
                      > > their protocol) will no longer support any station from La Crosse
                      > > that does have have a published protocol.
                      > >
                      > > The same will be true for any other station manufacturers who is
                      > not
                      > > making their protocol available. I have spent hours upon hours
                      > trying
                      > > to reverse engineer these protocols, I am officially done with it.
                      > >
                      > > My advice is to find station that has a well documented protocol,
                      > > like Davis or Peet Brothers.
                      > >
                      > > You can however purchase one of the other two commercial
                      packages,
                      > > apparently they have an "in" with OS and La Crosse.
                      > >
                      > > I am thinking maybe WUHU needs to go commerical.
                      > >
                      > > Best of luck.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <is0hha@>
                      wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Dear WUHU.
                      > > > In the future, do you think it's possible to add the support
                      for
                      > > the regon WMR-100 Stations ?
                      > > > I want to buy this weather station and i want continue to use
                      > WUHU
                      > > Software.
                      > > > I hope in this feature.
                      > > > Thanks in advance.
                      > > >
                      > > > Tony
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Juha Jäntti
                      Eugen, What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when our local
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Eugen,

                        What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my
                        view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when
                        our local distributor announced that WS-2300 and 2305 are no longer
                        available for sale and only WS-2308 was available. What I have seen is
                        that WS-230x stations are the best if you have a COM port on your
                        computer. I expect people will suffer some ill effects with the new
                        WS-2350 station, which is effectively the same as WS-2300, but it is
                        shipped with a USB-RS232 converter.

                        It's a nice handout from LaCrosse, but I've heard that the converter
                        doesn't work with all people. Of course one can take the converter off
                        and use the normal COM port instead but it's not a good business
                        strategy for LaCrosse to raise the price of the station by
                        implementing something with the baseline station that isn't
                        extensively tested. So if the converter doesn't work, you paid extra
                        for nothing. The price paid may be marginal (a few dollars/euros), but
                        it's still your money.

                        I think LaCrosse doesn't give a good nickle about what the weather
                        enthusiasts need and hope and just push new models into markets and
                        expect people to happily accept anything they offer. This sort of
                        ignorance makes me angry.

                        If their sales drop, they *might* rethink their strategy, but frankly,
                        I don't think they would do anything radical like bringing back their
                        most popular model for sale. They would probably modify their latest
                        model to better fit for the enthusiasts. It may still be not enough;
                        They will probably still force you to use their own software that
                        doesn't communicate with CWOP and others and keep the protol a secret
                        - again.

                        For the Peet Bros PWS, it not yet in use. I received it yesterday,
                        along with the package number 1 from the USA, containing the parts not
                        available right away from Germany. I'm still waiting for package 2,
                        containing the rain gauge I ordered a week ago. At first I have to
                        take down the LaCrosse station before I can install the Peet Bros station.

                        Once I get it online, I'll download the latest Beta version and notify
                        about it here. The station will transmit weather data to AWEKAS, CWOP
                        and Weather Underground, as does my WS-2305 station right now.

                        My station IDs are CW4473 for CWOP and IUUSIMAA2 for WU.

                        Best Regards,
                        Juha
                        Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                        Helsinki, Finland
                        CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2


                        --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                        <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                        > with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                        > luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                        > software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                        > will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                        > bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                        > that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                        > meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                        > different with Davis but considering the price,
                        > especially in a country like ours it's out of
                        > discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                        > successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                        > lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                        > enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                        > for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                        > rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                        > their products are not so expensive and reliable
                        > people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                        > they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                        > clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                        > you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                        > what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                        > congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                        > Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                        > data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                        > the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                        > http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oradea
                        > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Eugen,
                        > >
                        > > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                        > > LaCrosse and Oregon
                        > > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                        > > standard customers (or
                        > > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                        > > perfectly
                        > > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                        > > aggravating than first
                        > > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                        > > officially asking for
                        > > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                        > > e-mail back that says
                        > > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                        > > for an advice as to
                        > > who to contact for the information, you get no
                        > > response at all (it's
                        > > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                        > > to help you").
                        > >
                        > > As we get little or no response from their tech
                        > > support the only way
                        > > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                        > > is to start
                        > > telling people how their products are made, how they
                        > > work and where
                        > > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                        > > that they're
                        > > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                        > > tech support.
                        > > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                        > > station they really
                        > > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                        > > their ways.
                        > >
                        > > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                        > > bought my station
                        > > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                        > > Elektronik GmbH
                        > > (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived
                        > > today.
                        > > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                        > > going will be
                        > > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                        > > station but it will
                        > > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                        > > Davis station.
                        > >
                        > > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                        > > state and fast.
                        > > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                        > > only their level
                        > > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                        > > good intentions,
                        > > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                        > > reverse-engineering.
                        > >
                        > > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                        > > in more people
                        > > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                        > > weather data,
                        > > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                        > > more money for them.
                        > > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                        > > LaCrosse thanks
                        > > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                        > > by e-mailing back
                        > > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                        > > details of anything,
                        > > because you are an end-user".
                        > >
                        > > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                        > > alike if they don't
                        > > change their ways.
                        > >
                        > > Best Regards,
                        > > Juha
                        > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                        > > Helsinki, Finland
                        > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                        > >
                        > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                        > > Eugen
                        > > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                        > > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                        > > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                        > > absolutely
                        > > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                        > > > better but the problem is the price and the
                        > > shipping
                        > > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                        > > products
                        > > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                        > > my
                        > > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                        > > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                        > > least
                        > > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                        > > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                        > > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                        > > Crosse
                        > > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                        > > find
                        > > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                        > > matter.
                        > > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                        > > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                        > > request.
                        > > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                        > > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                        > > if
                        > > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                        > > agree ?
                        > > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                        > > you !
                        > > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                        > > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > Hi Eugen.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                        > > WS-3650,
                        > > > > as it is
                        > > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                        > > difference
                        > > > > is the USB to
                        > > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                        > > > > protocols are unchanged.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                        > > but
                        > > > > anything else out
                        > > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                        > > > > will probably not be
                        > > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                        > > either
                        > > > > reverse engineer the
                        > > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                        > > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                        > > > > on their hands and give details of the
                        > > protocols.
                        > > > > Somehow I'm not
                        > > > > seeing the latter happening...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                        > > producing
                        > > > > and selling, I've
                        > > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                        > > LaCrosse
                        > > > > will pull the plug
                        > > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                        > > next
                        > > > > 3-5 years despite
                        > > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                        > > leave
                        > > > > the shelves and
                        > > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                        > > they
                        > > > > will still have
                        > > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                        > > but
                        > > > > for how long are
                        > > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                        > > like
                        > > > > this? They may
                        > > > > keep them available for several years after
                        > > WS-2308
                        > > > > is pulled off the
                        > > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                        > > > > decisions and looking at
                        > > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                        > > > > LaCrosse, we are
                        > > > > heading for troubled times.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                        > > > > started developing a
                        > > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                        > > stations.
                        > > > > When (and I
                        > > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                        > > > > community will feel the
                        > > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                        > > > > station is located
                        > > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                        > > have
                        > > > > tons of LaCrosse
                        > > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                        > > weather
                        > > > > data to CWOP and
                        > > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                        > > of
                        > > > > them when LaCrosse
                        > > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                        > > WS-2300/3600
                        > > > > line of products.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                        > > > > underway: I'm switching to
                        > >
                        > === message truncated ===
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                        > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                        >
                      • Radu Eugen
                        Dear Juha, I ve been thinking about this thing with La Crosse stations and somehow I guess they don t care too much about the people who want to use their
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear Juha, I've been thinking about this thing with La Crosse stations and somehow I guess they don't care too much about the people who want to use their stations to transmit data on the internet. I've noticed that they tried to improve the response of their stations between the base stations and the outside sensors. Compared to 2300 series 3600 heavy weather pro software is improved, especially in the graphic part. They address their products to the clients not bothering too much in what purpose the clients want to use their stations. It's a pity that they don't see further down the line but that's the conclusion I came to. So the message is, if you don't like buy from somebody else. Now let's talk a little bit about Peet Bros, well, I studied their offer and I'm a little bit puzzled, I couldn't figure it out what is the time response between the base unit and the outside sensors, and the pressure if I remember correctly is between 900 and some millibars and 1080 or so. If I decide to take this station to a higher altittude what I'm I going to do with it ?! And one more thing, can you use your anemometer at 10 meters high and the temperature sensor at 2 meters at the same time ?! I expressed these questions to them but so far I got no answer. If you will install your station, please, write me how it works and if you discovered some informations that I couldn't get from their presentation. All the best and happy weather watching ! Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania

                          Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote:
                          Eugen,

                          What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my
                          view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when
                          our local distributor announced that WS-2300 and 2305 are no longer
                          available for sale and only WS-2308 was available. What I have seen is
                          that WS-230x stations are the best if you have a COM port on your
                          computer. I expect people will suffer some ill effects with the new
                          WS-2350 station, which is effectively the same as WS-2300, but it is
                          shipped with a USB-RS232 converter.

                          It's a nice handout from LaCrosse, but I've heard that the converter
                          doesn't work with all people. Of course one can take the converter off
                          and use the normal COM port instead but it's not a good business
                          strategy for LaCrosse to raise the price of the station by
                          implementing something with the baseline station that isn't
                          extensively tested. So if the converter doesn't work, you paid extra
                          for nothing. The price paid may be marginal (a few dollars/euros) , but
                          it's still your money.

                          I think LaCrosse doesn't give a good nickle about what the weather
                          enthusiasts need and hope and just push new models into markets and
                          expect people to happily accept anything they offer. This sort of
                          ignorance makes me angry.

                          If their sales drop, they *might* rethink their strategy, but frankly,
                          I don't think they would do anything radical like bringing back their
                          most popular model for sale. They would probably modify their latest
                          model to better fit for the enthusiasts. It may still be not enough;
                          They will probably still force you to use their own software that
                          doesn't communicate with CWOP and others and keep the protol a secret
                          - again.

                          For the Peet Bros PWS, it not yet in use. I received it yesterday,
                          along with the package number 1 from the USA, containing the parts not
                          available right away from Germany. I'm still waiting for package 2,
                          containing the rain gauge I ordered a week ago. At first I have to
                          take down the LaCrosse station before I can install the Peet Bros station.

                          Once I get it online, I'll download the latest Beta version and notify
                          about it here. The station will transmit weather data to AWEKAS, CWOP
                          and Weather Underground, as does my WS-2305 station right now.

                          My station IDs are CW4473 for CWOP and IUUSIMAA2 for WU.

                          Best Regards,
                          Juha
                          Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                          Helsinki, Finland
                          CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2

                          --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, Radu Eugen
                          <eugenraduoradea@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                          > with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                          > luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                          > software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                          > will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                          > bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                          > that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                          > meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                          > different with Davis but considering the price,
                          > especially in a country like ours it's out of
                          > discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                          > successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                          > lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                          > enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                          > for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                          > rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                          > their products are not so expensive and reliable
                          > people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                          > they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                          > clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                          > you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                          > what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                          > congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                          > Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                          > data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                          > the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                          > http://www.wundergr ound.com/ cgi-bin/findweat her/getForecast? query=oradea
                          > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Eugen,
                          > >
                          > > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                          > > LaCrosse and Oregon
                          > > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                          > > standard customers (or
                          > > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                          > > perfectly
                          > > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                          > > aggravating than first
                          > > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                          > > officially asking for
                          > > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                          > > e-mail back that says
                          > > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                          > > for an advice as to
                          > > who to contact for the information, you get no
                          > > response at all (it's
                          > > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                          > > to help you").
                          > >
                          > > As we get little or no response from their tech
                          > > support the only way
                          > > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                          > > is to start
                          > > telling people how their products are made, how they
                          > > work and where
                          > > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                          > > that they're
                          > > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                          > > tech support.
                          > > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                          > > station they really
                          > > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                          > > their ways.
                          > >
                          > > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                          > > bought my station
                          > > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                          > > Elektronik GmbH
                          > > (http://www.wimo. com/frameset_ e.html) and it arrived
                          > > today.
                          > > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                          > > going will be
                          > > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                          > > station but it will
                          > > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                          > > Davis station.
                          > >
                          > > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                          > > state and fast.
                          > > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                          > > only their level
                          > > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                          > > good intentions,
                          > > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                          > > reverse-engineering .
                          > >
                          > > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                          > > in more people
                          > > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                          > > weather data,
                          > > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                          > > more money for them.
                          > > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                          > > LaCrosse thanks
                          > > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                          > > by e-mailing back
                          > > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                          > > details of anything,
                          > > because you are an end-user".
                          > >
                          > > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                          > > alike if they don't
                          > > change their ways.
                          > >
                          > > Best Regards,
                          > > Juha
                          > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                          > > Helsinki, Finland
                          > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                          > >
                          > > --- In wuhu_software_ group@yahoogroup s.com, Radu
                          > > Eugen
                          > > <eugenraduoradea@ > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                          > > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                          > > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                          > > absolutely
                          > > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                          > > > better but the problem is the price and the
                          > > shipping
                          > > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                          > > products
                          > > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                          > > my
                          > > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                          > > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                          > > least
                          > > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                          > > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                          > > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                          > > Crosse
                          > > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                          > > find
                          > > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                          > > matter.
                          > > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                          > > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                          > > request.
                          > > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                          > > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                          > > if
                          > > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                          > > agree ?
                          > > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                          > > you !
                          > > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                          > > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > Hi Eugen.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                          > > WS-3650,
                          > > > > as it is
                          > > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                          > > difference
                          > > > > is the USB to
                          > > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                          > > > > protocols are unchanged.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                          > > but
                          > > > > anything else out
                          > > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                          > > > > will probably not be
                          > > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                          > > either
                          > > > > reverse engineer the
                          > > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                          > > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                          > > > > on their hands and give details of the
                          > > protocols.
                          > > > > Somehow I'm not
                          > > > > seeing the latter happening...
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                          > > producing
                          > > > > and selling, I've
                          > > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                          > > LaCrosse
                          > > > > will pull the plug
                          > > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                          > > next
                          > > > > 3-5 years despite
                          > > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                          > > leave
                          > > > > the shelves and
                          > > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                          > > they
                          > > > > will still have
                          > > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                          > > but
                          > > > > for how long are
                          > > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                          > > like
                          > > > > this? They may
                          > > > > keep them available for several years after
                          > > WS-2308
                          > > > > is pulled off the
                          > > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                          > > > > decisions and looking at
                          > > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                          > > > > LaCrosse, we are
                          > > > > heading for troubled times.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                          > > > > started developing a
                          > > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                          > > stations.
                          > > > > When (and I
                          > > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                          > > > > community will feel the
                          > > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                          > > > > station is located
                          > > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                          > > have
                          > > > > tons of LaCrosse
                          > > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                          > > weather
                          > > > > data to CWOP and
                          > > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                          > > of
                          > > > > them when LaCrosse
                          > > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                          > > WS-2300/3600
                          > > > > line of products.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                          > > > > underway: I'm switching to
                          > >
                          > === message truncated ===
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                        • Juha Jäntti
                          Eugen, The hard cold fact is that LaCrosse is nothing more than a reseller for a manufacturer located in Asia and HeavyWeather (maybe alongside with the comms
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Eugen,

                            The hard cold fact is that LaCrosse is nothing more than a reseller
                            for a manufacturer located in Asia and HeavyWeather (maybe alongside
                            with the comms protocol) is done by a German subcontractor. This alone
                            makes it open to all kinds of risks like faulty or poorly written
                            software (=HeavyWeather and HW Publisher are good examples).

                            They did and succeeded in improving response times between WS-2300
                            series models, but they forgot to tell consumers, which of the
                            stations had this improved response time and the local distributor
                            couldn't tell the difference because the improved model was identical
                            to the older model. They did improve the humidity readout as well and
                            this one they *did* mention on the package.

                            Well, I just got the Peet Bros station out of the package and put it
                            to the test that everything, except the yet-to-arrive rain gauge, is
                            in working order.

                            In my tests I noticed that the anemometer readouts are pretty much
                            real-time and very sensitive. As I increased the airflow to the
                            anometer using compressed air, I saw the speed increase immediately
                            and as I decreased the airflow toward zero, I was able to get readouts
                            as low as 0,1 m/s. I've never seen that fast response and low readings
                            with LaCrosse sensors.

                            The outdoor temperature/humidity sensor seems to get readings every
                            5-10 seconds (I was only looking that the sensor was functioning and
                            reading temperature and humidity, I didn't time it).

                            For the barometric pressure, the range is between 931,3 and 1067,0 hPa
                            (698,5 to 800,0 mmHg / 27,5 to 31,5 inHg), so it's very suitable for
                            most environment, even higher altitudes).

                            You can use the anemometer that high and temperature sensor at 2
                            meters easily. The cables for the anemometer and temperature meter are
                            both separated from each other.

                            I will keep you informed how the installation goes, once I get it started.

                            Best Regards,
                            Juha
                            Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                            Helsinki, Finland
                            CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2


                            --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                            <eugenraduoradea@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Juha, I've been thinking about this thing with La Crosse
                            stations and somehow I guess they don't care too much about the people
                            who want to use their stations to transmit data on the internet. I've
                            noticed that they tried to improve the response of their stations
                            between the base stations and the outside sensors. Compared to 2300
                            series 3600 heavy weather pro software is improved, especially in the
                            graphic part. They address their products to the clients not bothering
                            too much in what purpose the clients want to use their stations. It's
                            a pity that they don't see further down the line but that's the
                            conclusion I came to. So the message is, if you don't like buy from
                            somebody else. Now let's talk a little bit about Peet Bros, well, I
                            studied their offer and I'm a little bit puzzled, I couldn't figure it
                            out what is the time response between the base unit and the outside
                            sensors, and the pressure if I remember correctly is between 900 and
                            some millibars and 1080 or so.
                            > If I decide to take this station to a higher altittude what I'm I
                            going to do with it ?! And one more thing, can you use your anemometer
                            at 10 meters high and the temperature sensor at 2 meters at the same
                            time ?! I expressed these questions to them but so far I got no
                            answer. If you will install your station, please, write me how it
                            works and if you discovered some informations that I couldn't get from
                            their presentation. All the best and happy weather watching ! Eugen
                            Radu, Oradea, Romania
                            >
                            > Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@...> wrote: Eugen,
                            >
                            > What I said about LaCrosse WS-2300 series stations are all based on my
                            > view of the situation and experience. I started to fear the worst when
                            > our local distributor announced that WS-2300 and 2305 are no longer
                            > available for sale and only WS-2308 was available. What I have seen is
                            > that WS-230x stations are the best if you have a COM port on your
                            > computer. I expect people will suffer some ill effects with the new
                            > WS-2350 station, which is effectively the same as WS-2300, but it is
                            > shipped with a USB-RS232 converter.
                            >
                            > It's a nice handout from LaCrosse, but I've heard that the converter
                            > doesn't work with all people. Of course one can take the converter off
                            > and use the normal COM port instead but it's not a good business
                            > strategy for LaCrosse to raise the price of the station by
                            > implementing something with the baseline station that isn't
                            > extensively tested. So if the converter doesn't work, you paid extra
                            > for nothing. The price paid may be marginal (a few dollars/euros), but
                            > it's still your money.
                            >
                            > I think LaCrosse doesn't give a good nickle about what the weather
                            > enthusiasts need and hope and just push new models into markets and
                            > expect people to happily accept anything they offer. This sort of
                            > ignorance makes me angry.
                            >
                            > If their sales drop, they *might* rethink their strategy, but frankly,
                            > I don't think they would do anything radical like bringing back their
                            > most popular model for sale. They would probably modify their latest
                            > model to better fit for the enthusiasts. It may still be not enough;
                            > They will probably still force you to use their own software that
                            > doesn't communicate with CWOP and others and keep the protol a secret
                            > - again.
                            >
                            > For the Peet Bros PWS, it not yet in use. I received it yesterday,
                            > along with the package number 1 from the USA, containing the parts not
                            > available right away from Germany. I'm still waiting for package 2,
                            > containing the rain gauge I ordered a week ago. At first I have to
                            > take down the LaCrosse station before I can install the Peet Bros
                            station.
                            >
                            > Once I get it online, I'll download the latest Beta version and notify
                            > about it here. The station will transmit weather data to AWEKAS, CWOP
                            > and Weather Underground, as does my WS-2305 station right now.
                            >
                            > My station IDs are CW4473 for CWOP and IUUSIMAA2 for WU.
                            >
                            > Best Regards,
                            > Juha
                            > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                            > Helsinki, Finland
                            > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                            >
                            > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu Eugen
                            > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Juha, I agree with you completely. I discussed today
                            > > with the local distributor of La Crosse products and
                            > > luckily all the modells he sells can be used with WUHU
                            > > software, excepting the LC 550 which I don't think it
                            > > will be too successful for someone who knows a little
                            > > bit about meteorology. Frankly I must say surprisingly
                            > > that even Rainwise is not fit to make standard
                            > > meteorological observations, things are a little bit
                            > > different with Davis but considering the price,
                            > > especially in a country like ours it's out of
                            > > discussion. If La Crosse will withdraw their most
                            > > successful modell, the 2300 series they will lose a
                            > > lot of clients, especially in the beginner meteo
                            > > enthusiasts segment. It depends what is their strategy
                            > > for the future. If their sell will drop they will
                            > > rethink their strategy. For the time being because
                            > > their products are not so expensive and reliable
                            > > people will continue to buy from them, it's a pity
                            > > they are so hard headed in communicating with their
                            > > clients. Write me more about your Peet Bros PWS, are
                            > > you sending data in the wunderground project? If so
                            > > what is your wunderground address ? I must absolutely
                            > > congratulate Heath for the WUHU software. Compared to
                            > > Heavy weather it's far better, I'm sorry I can't store
                            > > data through it otherwise I would use only WUHU. All
                            > > the best from Romania, Eugen Radu, Oradea
                            > >
                            http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oradea
                            > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Eugen,
                            > > >
                            > > > Looking back at the struggle Heath has had with
                            > > > LaCrosse and Oregon
                            > > > Scientific (OS) as a programmer, I think we as
                            > > > standard customers (or
                            > > > "consumers", as they refer to us) fare even worse. I
                            > > > perfectly
                            > > > understand Heath's frustration. Nothing's more
                            > > > aggravating than first
                            > > > sending e-mail to tech support and kindly and
                            > > > officially asking for
                            > > > information and after *days* of waiting, get an
                            > > > e-mail back that says
                            > > > "No, we're not going to give you anything". Asking
                            > > > for an advice as to
                            > > > who to contact for the information, you get no
                            > > > response at all (it's
                            > > > all equal to an e-mail stating "No, we're not going
                            > > > to help you").
                            > > >
                            > > > As we get little or no response from their tech
                            > > > support the only way
                            > > > we can really convince them to change their behavior
                            > > > is to start
                            > > > telling people how their products are made, how they
                            > > > work and where
                            > > > applicable, make negative reviews, telling people
                            > > > that they're
                            > > > practically on their own if they rely on LaCrosse
                            > > > tech support.
                            > > > Eventually people will start looking for a weather
                            > > > station they really
                            > > > can rely on, hopefully forcing LaCrosse to change
                            > > > their ways.
                            > > >
                            > > > Peet Bros products are sold in Europe nowadays. I
                            > > > bought my station
                            > > > from German electronics supplier WiMo Antennen und
                            > > > Elektronik GmbH
                            > > > (http://www.wimo.com/frameset_e.html) and it arrived
                            > > > today.
                            > > > The price with all the needed supplies to get you
                            > > > going will be
                            > > > somewhere double the price of a LaCrosse WS-3600
                            > > > station but it will
                            > > > still be less than what you would have to pay for a
                            > > > Davis station.
                            > > >
                            > > > I sincerely hope LaCrosse wakes up from it's dreamy
                            > > > state and fast.
                            > > > LaCrosse has potential producing good stations. It's
                            > > > only their level
                            > > > of service and closed attitude toward people with
                            > > > good intentions,
                            > > > like Heath and those involved in protocol
                            > > > reverse-engineering.
                            > > >
                            > > > Heath has made a software that has likely resulted
                            > > > in more people
                            > > > investing in LaCrosse stations that are able to send
                            > > > weather data,
                            > > > which has resulted in more sells for LaCrosse and
                            > > > more money for them.
                            > > > Heath hasn't earned a single cent in the process and
                            > > > LaCrosse thanks
                            > > > him answering to a kind and perfectly official query
                            > > > by e-mailing back
                            > > > the words: "No, we're not going to give you any
                            > > > details of anything,
                            > > > because you are an end-user".
                            > > >
                            > > > They will start losing customers and enthusiasts
                            > > > alike if they don't
                            > > > change their ways.
                            > > >
                            > > > Best Regards,
                            > > > Juha
                            > > > Finland Weather Exchange (FinWX)
                            > > > Helsinki, Finland
                            > > > CW4473 / IUUSIMAA2
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, Radu
                            > > > Eugen
                            > > > <eugenraduoradea@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Dear Juha, is there anything we can do to covince
                            > > > > those guys from La Crosse to be more flexible with
                            > > > > their products ? Concerning Peet Bros I'm
                            > > > absolutely
                            > > > > sure that american brands weather stations are far
                            > > > > better but the problem is the price and the
                            > > > shipping
                            > > > > across the ocean. I'm stuck with La Crosse
                            > > > products
                            > > > > because I have a distributor of their products in
                            > > > my
                            > > > > own town. Oregon products are not available in our
                            > > > > country, they have no interest to come here, at
                            > > > least
                            > > > > that's what they said. In case that things will go
                            > > > > wrong I will try eventually to buy an Irox from
                            > > > > Switzerland. But I will try to contact the La
                            > > > Crosse
                            > > > > guys and express my concern and I'm interested to
                            > > > find
                            > > > > out what is their point of view regarding this
                            > > > matter.
                            > > > > I guess that if more La Crosse clients will try to
                            > > > > convince them maybe they will hear people's
                            > > > request.
                            > > > > After all, all this is a business, you offer me a
                            > > > > product that satisfy my needs I will buy from you,
                            > > > if
                            > > > > not, I will buy from somebody else. Don't you
                            > > > agree ?
                            > > > > All the best and I would like to hear more from
                            > > > you !
                            > > > > Eugen Radu, Oradea, Romania
                            > > > > --- Juha Jäntti <jjantti2@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Hi Eugen.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I think WUHU will still work with LaCrosse
                            > > > WS-3650,
                            > > > > > as it is
                            > > > > > practically the same as WS-3600. The only
                            > > > difference
                            > > > > > is the USB to
                            > > > > > RS232 converter that comes with the station. The
                            > > > > > protocols are unchanged.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I know you all will hate me for saying all this,
                            > > > but
                            > > > > > anything else out
                            > > > > > of scope of the WS-23xx and 36xx series stations
                            > > > > > will probably not be
                            > > > > > supported unless someone is kind enough to
                            > > > either
                            > > > > > reverse engineer the
                            > > > > > new protocols these new stations are using or
                            > > > > > LaCrosse stops sitting
                            > > > > > on their hands and give details of the
                            > > > protocols.
                            > > > > > Somehow I'm not
                            > > > > > seeing the latter happening...
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Looking at the stations they are currently
                            > > > producing
                            > > > > > and selling, I've
                            > > > > > starting to have a distinct feeling that
                            > > > LaCrosse
                            > > > > > will pull the plug
                            > > > > > on WS-2300 and WS-3600 series models within the
                            > > > next
                            > > > > > 3-5 years despite
                            > > > > > community needs. We have seen WS-2300 and 2305
                            > > > leave
                            > > > > > the shelves and
                            > > > > > next one targeted will be the 2308. Of course,
                            > > > they
                            > > > > > will still have
                            > > > > > the USB to serial converted models available,
                            > > > but
                            > > > > > for how long are
                            > > > > > they going to last if the current situation is
                            > > > like
                            > > > > > this? They may
                            > > > > > keep them available for several years after
                            > > > WS-2308
                            > > > > > is pulled off the
                            > > > > > shelf completely. We are dependant on their
                            > > > > > decisions and looking at
                            > > > > > how much we, as a community can do to persuade
                            > > > > > LaCrosse, we are
                            > > > > > heading for troubled times.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I sincerely hope people start or have already
                            > > > > > started developing a
                            > > > > > contigency/backup plans for their weather
                            > > > stations.
                            > > > > > When (and I
                            > > > > > emphasize *WHEN*) they pull the plug, weather
                            > > > > > community will feel the
                            > > > > > impact within a year or two, depending where the
                            > > > > > station is located
                            > > > > > and what kind of climate they're put into. We
                            > > > have
                            > > > > > tons of LaCrosse
                            > > > > > stations located around the globe, sending
                            > > > weather
                            > > > > > data to CWOP and
                            > > > > > other services. I fear we will lose a big number
                            > > > of
                            > > > > > them when LaCrosse
                            > > > > > decides to give a killing blow on their
                            > > > WS-2300/3600
                            > > > > > line of products.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I have a contigency plan set up and already
                            > > > > > underway: I'm switching to
                            > > >
                            > > === message truncated ===
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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