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Please restore my faith

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  • Dave Phillips
    Each day the United States gathers more and more evidence against the terrorists who were responsible for the cowardly attacks that ended the lives of more
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 24, 2001
      Each day the United States gathers more and more evidence against the terrorists who were responsible for the cowardly attacks that ended the lives of more than 7,000 innocent, men, women and children, and ruined the lives, hopes and fortunes of thousands more, on September 11, 2001.

      The evidence clearly points to Al Qaeda, a terrorist group led by ex-Saudi businessmen and cult leader Usama bin Mohammed bin Laden. The evidence is incontrovertible.

      The cult that bin Laden leads is allegedly prominently Muslim but in reality this does not appear to be so. I am a Christian, not a Muslim, but in the time since the attacks I have been exposed daily to the teachings of the Quar'an, the holy book of Islam and I understand and acknowledge that Islam teaches peace not war. Almost every action taken by the Al Qaeda movement defies the Quar'an, and the more I am exposed to Islam the more I know that the Al Qaeda movement, and those cowardly hijackers are not Muslims. Indeed I consider that I am more Muslim than they are.

      What disturbs me is that in the face of the evidence so far gathered there is a large group of people who refuse to accept the identities of the hijackers, instead blaming another group, the Jews. So far there has been, at least to my knowledge, no evidence which links Jews to the events of September 11 and yet this group is being blamed, almost constantly it seems, on the Internet and in the traditional media for those events.

      The group that is spreading their racist, anti-Semitic beliefs have something in common. They claim not to support Usama bin Laden. They claim to be a peaceful people and they claim that the events of September 11 were the responsibility of Jews.

      While the rest of the world claims that the war is a war against terrorism these people claim that the war is a war against Islam.

      Surprisingly, these peaceful people are almost without exception Muslims and for the life of me I can't see why their hatred of Jews is so deep that they refuse to accept the evidence that points to the hijackers instead blaming the Jews. They have even been responsible for horrible rumours, like the one spread on the Internet by their supporters as well as thousands of gullible net users that claims 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work at the World Trade Center on September 11.

      I had hoped that this group were not representative of all Muslims but to date, I haven't seen or heard one Muslim refute the claims and say "No, Muslims do not believe that the Jews were responsible and we do not hate Jews." It's disturbing obviously and I really hope that there are Muslims who will come forward and restore my faith in Islam. There must be at least one out there.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • AliZ
      ... exception Muslims and for the life of me I can t see why their hatred of Jews is so deep that they refuse to accept the evidence that points to the
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 25, 2001
        --- In wtcattack@y..., "Dave Phillips" <itsnotmeitshim@y...>
        wrote:

        > Surprisingly, these peaceful people are almost without
        exception Muslims and for the life of me I can't see why
        their hatred of Jews is so deep that they refuse to accept
        the evidence that points to the hijackers instead blaming the
        Jews. They have even been responsible for horrible
        rumours, like the one spread on the Internet by their
        supporters as well as thousands of gullible net users that
        claims 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work at the World
        Trade Center on September 11.

        Yes it is an horrible rumour, and also a ridiculous one, and
        anyone who believes it is or forwards it must be a real
        moron.



        > I had hoped that this group were not representative of all
        Muslims but to date, I haven't seen or heard one Muslim
        refute the claims and say "No, Muslims do not believe that
        the Jews were responsible and we do not hate Jews." It's
        disturbing obviously and I really hope that there are Muslims
        who will come forward and restore my faith in Islam. There
        must be at least one out there.


        If you have read some of my emails, you'd know that I
        doon't hate jews (some are among my friends), that
        moroccans don't hate jews, that tens of thousands of jews
        live in Morocco and hold high posts in the government, that
        Morocco was the only country (with Netherlands) which
        refused to expell jews in spite of the german orders, (no
        one of them had to leave the country), and even that many
        moroccan-born israelis come every year to gather with their
        families, because we don't confuse individuals with politics.
      • adnan rana
        Muslims are basically against Israel because of there policies and terrorist acts against muslim population in palestine and neighboring mideast countries.
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 25, 2001
          Muslims are basically against Israel because of there policies and terrorist
          acts against muslim population in palestine and neighboring mideast
          countries.

          Majority of Muslims thinks Israel is responsible for this becaz they are the
          one getting most benifit out of this.

          Muslims in general dont hate jews, i am muslim and have freindly
          relationship with many jews. but when it comes to Israel, muslim dont have
          any other choice then hating what they did and are doing to muslim
          populations.

          Peace






          Each day the United States gathers more and more evidence against the
          terrorists who were responsible for the cowardly attacks that ended the
          lives of more than 7,000 innocent, men, women and children, and ruined the
          lives, hopes and fortunes of thousands more, on September 11, 2001.

          The evidence clearly points to Al Qaeda, a terrorist group led by ex-Saudi
          businessmen and cult leader Usama bin Mohammed bin Laden. The evidence is
          incontrovertible.

          The cult that bin Laden leads is allegedly prominently Muslim but in reality
          this does not appear to be so. I am a Christian, not a Muslim, but in the
          time since the attacks I have been exposed daily to the teachings of the
          Quar'an, the holy book of Islam and I understand and acknowledge that Islam
          teaches peace not war. Almost every action taken by the Al Qaeda movement
          defies the Quar'an, and the more I am exposed to Islam the more I know that
          the Al Qaeda movement, and those cowardly hijackers are not Muslims. Indeed
          I consider that I am more Muslim than they are.

          What disturbs me is that in the face of the evidence so far gathered there
          is a large group of people who refuse to accept the identities of the
          hijackers, instead blaming another group, the Jews. So far there has been,
          at least to my knowledge, no evidence which links Jews to the events of
          September 11 and yet this group is being blamed, almost constantly it seems,
          on the Internet and in the traditional media for those events.

          The group that is spreading their racist, anti-Semitic beliefs have
          something in common. They claim not to support Usama bin Laden. They claim
          to be a peaceful people and they claim that the events of September 11 were
          the responsibility of Jews.

          While the rest of the world claims that the war is a war against terrorism
          these people claim that the war is a war against Islam.

          Surprisingly, these peaceful people are almost without exception Muslims and
          for the life of me I can't see why their hatred of Jews is so deep that they
          refuse to accept the evidence that points to the hijackers instead blaming
          the Jews. They have even been responsible for horrible rumours, like the one
          spread on the Internet by their supporters as well as thousands of gullible
          net users that claims 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work at the World Trade
          Center on September 11.

          I had hoped that this group were not representative of all Muslims but to
          date, I haven't seen or heard one Muslim refute the claims and say "No,
          Muslims do not believe that the Jews were responsible and we do not hate
          Jews." It's disturbing obviously and I really hope that there are Muslims
          who will come forward and restore my faith in Islam. There must be at least
          one out there.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        • Nima Hazini
          This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states have done far more against the Muslims (and Palestinians) than the Jews and Israel could ever
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 26, 2001
            This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states have
            done far more against the Muslims (and Palestinians) than the "Jews"
            and "Israel" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
            coveniently side stepped by many Muslims and Palestinians as some
            sort of excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus
            continuing the demonization of the "Jew" and "Israel" in a vicious
            cycle, ad nauseum.
            Neither Israel nor the Jew has had anything to do with the
            deplorable 2nd class status that many Palestinian Muslims have found
            themselves in Arab countries - but those Arab governments do bare
            responsibility. Israel did not massacre several thousand Palestinian
            fedayin in the space of a few short weeks in Jordan in the early 70s,
            but the late King Hussein did. Israel did not commit practical
            genocide against Muslims and bulldoze to the ground the town of Hama
            in Syria in 1982, but the late Baathist President Hafiz al-Assad did.
            And so on and so forth.
            Yes, Israeli governments have committed some horrendous things
            against Palestinians, but compared to what the Arab states themselves
            have done to their own Muslims and Palestinian refugees, it is
            nothing - a night and day difference, as a matter of fact. Israel
            (which btw is not going to go away) is merely an excuse and crutch
            for many Muslims and Palestinians to vent upon, nothing more. To
            argue that America's support for Israel precipitated the 9-11
            terrorist attack on the WTC in NY, is not only offensive, but an
            outright red herring; a red herring no less which seeks to somehow
            tacitly endorse those attacks.

            cheers,
            Nima

            --- In wtcattack@y..., "adnan rana" <adnan_rana@h...> wrote:


            > Muslims are basically against Israel because of there policies and
            terrorist
            > acts against muslim population in palestine and neighboring mideast
            > countries.
            >
            > Majority of Muslims thinks Israel is responsible for this becaz
            they are the
            > one getting most benifit out of this.
            >
            > Muslims in general dont hate jews, i am muslim and have freindly
            > relationship with many jews. but when it comes to Israel, muslim
            dont have
            > any other choice then hating what they did and are doing to muslim
            > populations.
            >
            > Peace
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Each day the United States gathers more and more evidence against
            the
            > terrorists who were responsible for the cowardly attacks that ended
            the
            > lives of more than 7,000 innocent, men, women and children, and
            ruined the
            > lives, hopes and fortunes of thousands more, on September 11, 2001.
            >
            > The evidence clearly points to Al Qaeda, a terrorist group led by
            ex-Saudi
            > businessmen and cult leader Usama bin Mohammed bin Laden. The
            evidence is
            > incontrovertible.
            >
            > The cult that bin Laden leads is allegedly prominently Muslim but
            in reality
            > this does not appear to be so. I am a Christian, not a Muslim, but
            in the
            > time since the attacks I have been exposed daily to the teachings
            of the
            > Quar'an, the holy book of Islam and I understand and acknowledge
            that Islam
            > teaches peace not war. Almost every action taken by the Al Qaeda
            movement
            > defies the Quar'an, and the more I am exposed to Islam the more I
            know that
            > the Al Qaeda movement, and those cowardly hijackers are not
            Muslims. Indeed
            > I consider that I am more Muslim than they are.
            >
            > What disturbs me is that in the face of the evidence so far
            gathered there
            > is a large group of people who refuse to accept the identities of
            the
            > hijackers, instead blaming another group, the Jews. So far there
            has been,
            > at least to my knowledge, no evidence which links Jews to the
            events of
            > September 11 and yet this group is being blamed, almost constantly
            it seems,
            > on the Internet and in the traditional media for those events.
            >
            > The group that is spreading their racist, anti-Semitic beliefs have
            > something in common. They claim not to support Usama bin Laden.
            They claim
            > to be a peaceful people and they claim that the events of September
            11 were
            > the responsibility of Jews.
            >
            > While the rest of the world claims that the war is a war against
            terrorism
            > these people claim that the war is a war against Islam.
            >
            > Surprisingly, these peaceful people are almost without exception
            Muslims and
            > for the life of me I can't see why their hatred of Jews is so deep
            that they
            > refuse to accept the evidence that points to the hijackers instead
            blaming
            > the Jews. They have even been responsible for horrible rumours,
            like the one
            > spread on the Internet by their supporters as well as thousands of
            gullible
            > net users that claims 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work at the
            World Trade
            > Center on September 11.
            >
            > I had hoped that this group were not representative of all Muslims
            but to
            > date, I haven't seen or heard one Muslim refute the claims and
            say "No,
            > Muslims do not believe that the Jews were responsible and we do not
            hate
            > Jews." It's disturbing obviously and I really hope that there are
            Muslims
            > who will come forward and restore my faith in Islam. There must be
            at least
            > one out there.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > wtcattack-unsubscribe@y...
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
            http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
          • adnan rana
            Well for me these Arab countries governments are even worse than israel. Adnan Rana This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states have done far
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 26, 2001
              Well for me these Arab countries governments are even worse than israel.

              Adnan Rana


              This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states have
              done far more against the Muslims (and Palestinians) than the "Jews"
              and "Israel" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
              coveniently side stepped by many Muslims and Palestinians as some
              sort of excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus
              continuing the demonization of the "Jew" and "Israel" in a vicious
              cycle, ad nauseum.
              Neither Israel nor the Jew has had anything to do with the
              deplorable 2nd class status that many Palestinian Muslims have found
              themselves in Arab countries - but those Arab governments do bare
              responsibility. Israel did not massacre several thousand Palestinian
              fedayin in the space of a few short weeks in Jordan in the early 70s,
              but the late King Hussein did. Israel did not commit practical
              genocide against Muslims and bulldoze to the ground the town of Hama
              in Syria in 1982, but the late Baathist President Hafiz al-Assad did.
              And so on and so forth.
              Yes, Israeli governments have committed some horrendous things
              against Palestinians, but compared to what the Arab states themselves
              have done to their own Muslims and Palestinian refugees, it is
              nothing - a night and day difference, as a matter of fact. Israel
              (which btw is not going to go away) is merely an excuse and crutch
              for many Muslims and Palestinians to vent upon, nothing more. To
              argue that America's support for Israel precipitated the 9-11
              terrorist attack on the WTC in NY, is not only offensive, but an
              outright red herring; a red herring no less which seeks to somehow
              tacitly endorse those attacks.

              cheers,
              Nima

              --- In wtcattack@y..., "adnan rana" <adnan_rana@h...> wrote:


              > Muslims are basically against Israel because of there policies and
              terrorist
              > acts against muslim population in palestine and neighboring mideast
              > countries.
              >
              > Majority of Muslims thinks Israel is responsible for this becaz
              they are the
              > one getting most benifit out of this.
              >
              > Muslims in general dont hate jews, i am muslim and have freindly
              > relationship with many jews. but when it comes to Israel, muslim
              dont have
              > any other choice then hating what they did and are doing to muslim
              > populations.
              >
              > Peace
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Each day the United States gathers more and more evidence against
              the
              > terrorists who were responsible for the cowardly attacks that ended
              the
              > lives of more than 7,000 innocent, men, women and children, and
              ruined the
              > lives, hopes and fortunes of thousands more, on September 11, 2001.
              >
              > The evidence clearly points to Al Qaeda, a terrorist group led by
              ex-Saudi
              > businessmen and cult leader Usama bin Mohammed bin Laden. The
              evidence is
              > incontrovertible.
              >
              > The cult that bin Laden leads is allegedly prominently Muslim but
              in reality
              > this does not appear to be so. I am a Christian, not a Muslim, but
              in the
              > time since the attacks I have been exposed daily to the teachings
              of the
              > Quar'an, the holy book of Islam and I understand and acknowledge
              that Islam
              > teaches peace not war. Almost every action taken by the Al Qaeda
              movement
              > defies the Quar'an, and the more I am exposed to Islam the more I
              know that
              > the Al Qaeda movement, and those cowardly hijackers are not
              Muslims. Indeed
              > I consider that I am more Muslim than they are.
              >
              > What disturbs me is that in the face of the evidence so far
              gathered there
              > is a large group of people who refuse to accept the identities of
              the
              > hijackers, instead blaming another group, the Jews. So far there
              has been,
              > at least to my knowledge, no evidence which links Jews to the
              events of
              > September 11 and yet this group is being blamed, almost constantly
              it seems,
              > on the Internet and in the traditional media for those events.
              >
              > The group that is spreading their racist, anti-Semitic beliefs have
              > something in common. They claim not to support Usama bin Laden.
              They claim
              > to be a peaceful people and they claim that the events of September
              11 were
              > the responsibility of Jews.
              >
              > While the rest of the world claims that the war is a war against
              terrorism
              > these people claim that the war is a war against Islam.
              >
              > Surprisingly, these peaceful people are almost without exception
              Muslims and
              > for the life of me I can't see why their hatred of Jews is so deep
              that they
              > refuse to accept the evidence that points to the hijackers instead
              blaming
              > the Jews. They have even been responsible for horrible rumours,
              like the one
              > spread on the Internet by their supporters as well as thousands of
              gullible
              > net users that claims 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work at the
              World Trade
              > Center on September 11.
              >
              > I had hoped that this group were not representative of all Muslims
              but to
              > date, I haven't seen or heard one Muslim refute the claims and
              say "No,
              > Muslims do not believe that the Jews were responsible and we do not
              hate
              > Jews." It's disturbing obviously and I really hope that there are
              Muslims
              > who will come forward and restore my faith in Islam. There must be
              at least
              > one out there.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > wtcattack-unsubscribe@y...
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
              http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              wtcattack-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




              _________________________________________________________________
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            • Ron Klegman
              Could we please refer to the Jews or the Jew as The Jewish People .. it s a bit more respectful. Thanks Ron Klegman God Bless America ... From: adnan
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 26, 2001
                Could we please refer to the "Jews" or the "Jew" as "The Jewish People" ..
                it's a bit more respectful.
                Thanks

                Ron Klegman
                God Bless America

                -----Original Message-----
                From: adnan rana [mailto:adnan_rana@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 2:15 PM
                To: wtcattack@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [wtcattack] Re: Please restore my faith


                Well for me these Arab countries governments are even worse than israel.

                Adnan Rana


                This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states have
                done far more against the Muslims (and Palestinians) than the "Jews"
                and "Israel" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
                coveniently side stepped by many Muslims and Palestinians as some
                sort of excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus
                continuing the demonization of the "Jew" and "Israel" in a vicious
                cycle, ad nauseum.
                Neither Israel nor the Jew has had anything to do with the
                deplorable 2nd class status that many Palestinian Muslims have found
                themselves in Arab countries - but those Arab governments do bare
                responsibility. Israel did not massacre several thousand Palestinian
                fedayin in the space of a few short weeks in Jordan in the early 70s,
                but the late King Hussein did. Israel did not commit practical
                genocide against Muslims and bulldoze to the ground the town of Hama
                in Syria in 1982, but the late Baathist President Hafiz al-Assad did.
                And so on and so forth.
                Yes, Israeli governments have committed some horrendous things
                against Palestinians, but compared to what the Arab states themselves
                have done to their own Muslims and Palestinian refugees, it is
                nothing - a night and day difference, as a matter of fact. Israel
                (which btw is not going to go away) is merely an excuse and crutch
                for many Muslims and Palestinians to vent upon, nothing more. To
                argue that America's support for Israel precipitated the 9-11
                terrorist attack on the WTC in NY, is not only offensive, but an
                outright red herring; a red herring no less which seeks to somehow
                tacitly endorse those attacks.

                cheers,
                Nima

                --- In wtcattack@y..., "adnan rana" <adnan_rana@h...> wrote:


                > Muslims are basically against Israel because of there policies and
                terrorist
                > acts against muslim population in palestine and neighboring mideast
                > countries.
                >
                > Majority of Muslims thinks Israel is responsible for this becaz
                they are the
                > one getting most benifit out of this.
                >
                > Muslims in general dont hate jews, i am muslim and have freindly
                > relationship with many jews. but when it comes to Israel, muslim
                dont have
                > any other choice then hating what they did and are doing to muslim
                > populations.
                >
                > Peace
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Each day the United States gathers more and more evidence against
                the
                > terrorists who were responsible for the cowardly attacks that ended
                the
                > lives of more than 7,000 innocent, men, women and children, and
                ruined the
                > lives, hopes and fortunes of thousands more, on September 11, 2001.
                >
                > The evidence clearly points to Al Qaeda, a terrorist group led by
                ex-Saudi
                > businessmen and cult leader Usama bin Mohammed bin Laden. The
                evidence is
                > incontrovertible.
                >
                > The cult that bin Laden leads is allegedly prominently Muslim but
                in reality
                > this does not appear to be so. I am a Christian, not a Muslim, but
                in the
                > time since the attacks I have been exposed daily to the teachings
                of the
                > Quar'an, the holy book of Islam and I understand and acknowledge
                that Islam
                > teaches peace not war. Almost every action taken by the Al Qaeda
                movement
                > defies the Quar'an, and the more I am exposed to Islam the more I
                know that
                > the Al Qaeda movement, and those cowardly hijackers are not
                Muslims. Indeed
                > I consider that I am more Muslim than they are.
                >
                > What disturbs me is that in the face of the evidence so far
                gathered there
                > is a large group of people who refuse to accept the identities of
                the
                > hijackers, instead blaming another group, the Jews. So far there
                has been,
                > at least to my knowledge, no evidence which links Jews to the
                events of
                > September 11 and yet this group is being blamed, almost constantly
                it seems,
                > on the Internet and in the traditional media for those events.
                >
                > The group that is spreading their racist, anti-Semitic beliefs have
                > something in common. They claim not to support Usama bin Laden.
                They claim
                > to be a peaceful people and they claim that the events of September
                11 were
                > the responsibility of Jews.
                >
                > While the rest of the world claims that the war is a war against
                terrorism
                > these people claim that the war is a war against Islam.
                >
                > Surprisingly, these peaceful people are almost without exception
                Muslims and
                > for the life of me I can't see why their hatred of Jews is so deep
                that they
                > refuse to accept the evidence that points to the hijackers instead
                blaming
                > the Jews. They have even been responsible for horrible rumours,
                like the one
                > spread on the Internet by their supporters as well as thousands of
                gullible
                > net users that claims 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work at the
                World Trade
                > Center on September 11.
                >
                > I had hoped that this group were not representative of all Muslims
                but to
                > date, I haven't seen or heard one Muslim refute the claims and
                say "No,
                > Muslims do not believe that the Jews were responsible and we do not
                hate
                > Jews." It's disturbing obviously and I really hope that there are
                Muslims
                > who will come forward and restore my faith in Islam. There must be
                at least
                > one out there.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > wtcattack-unsubscribe@y...
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                wtcattack-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                _________________________________________________________________
                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • AliZ
                This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. European states have done far more against the jewish People than the muslims and the arabs could ever
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 28, 2001
                  This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. European states
                  have done far more against the jewish People than the "muslims"
                  and the "arabs" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
                  coveniently side stepped by many jews and israelis as some sort of
                  excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus continuing the
                  demonization of the "muslims" and "arabs" in a vicious cycle, ad
                  nauseum.
                  Neither Palestine nor the Arabs has had anything to do with the
                  deplorable 2nd class status that many Jewss have found themselves all
                  over Europe - but those European "beacons of civilisation" do bare
                  responsibility. Palestinians did not massacre several million jewish
                  civilians in the space of a few short years in Germany in the early
                  40s, but the late Fuhrer Hitler did. Palestine did not commit
                  practical genocide against Jews and bulldoze to the ground their
                  synaguoges, but the late Communist President Stalin did.
                  And so on and so forth.
                  Yes, palestinian warriors have committed some horrendous things
                  against Israelis, but compared to what the European states themselves
                  have done to their own jewish citizens, it is nothing - a night and
                  day difference, as a matter of fact. Palestine (which btw is not
                  going to go away) is merely an excuse and crutch for many jews to
                  seek revenge elsewhere, nothing more. To argue that arab support for
                  Palestine precipitated the clash of civilisations , is not only
                  offensive, but an outright red herring; a red herring no less which
                  seeks to somehow tacitly endorse a future genocide.

                  cheers,
                  Ali


                  --- In wtcattack@y..., "Nima Hazini" <lotusapt@w...> wrote:
                  > This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states have
                  > done far more against the Muslims (and Palestinians) than
                  the "Jews"
                  > and "Israel" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
                  > coveniently side stepped by many Muslims and Palestinians as some
                  > sort of excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus
                  > continuing the demonization of the "Jew" and "Israel" in a vicious
                  > cycle, ad nauseum.
                  > Neither Israel nor the Jew has had anything to do with the
                  > deplorable 2nd class status that many Palestinian Muslims have
                  found
                  > themselves in Arab countries - but those Arab governments do bare
                  > responsibility. Israel did not massacre several thousand
                  Palestinian
                  > fedayin in the space of a few short weeks in Jordan in the early
                  70s,
                  > but the late King Hussein did. Israel did not commit practical
                  > genocide against Muslims and bulldoze to the ground the town of
                  Hama
                  > in Syria in 1982, but the late Baathist President Hafiz al-Assad
                  did.
                  > And so on and so forth.
                  > Yes, Israeli governments have committed some horrendous things
                  > against Palestinians, but compared to what the Arab states
                  themselves
                  > have done to their own Muslims and Palestinian refugees, it is
                  > nothing - a night and day difference, as a matter of fact. Israel
                  > (which btw is not going to go away) is merely an excuse and crutch
                  > for many Muslims and Palestinians to vent upon, nothing more. To
                  > argue that America's support for Israel precipitated the 9-11
                  > terrorist attack on the WTC in NY, is not only offensive, but an
                  > outright red herring; a red herring no less which seeks to somehow
                  > tacitly endorse those attacks.
                  >
                  > cheers,
                  > Nima
                  >
                • martin22202@yahoo.com
                  I really think the best thing for everybody is just for the Palestinians to pick up and leave the State of Israel. They are certainly not doing anyone any
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 28, 2001
                    I really think the best thing for everybody is just for the
                    Palestinians to pick up and leave the State of Israel. They are
                    certainly not doing anyone any good staying there, and have created a
                    worldwide 'situation' by their presence. I understand that the UN
                    Charter provides people the right to self-determination, but it's just
                    not a practical solution for them to stay. The Arabian peoples need
                    to let go of this as an issue, and it will most definitely be better
                    for their mental health and everyone else's if they do so.

                    I can also understand the anger of the Palestinian people over
                    supposedly having their land stolen from them. However, having land
                    stolen is never an excuse for killing over. In the Christian world,
                    pride and envy are two of the greatest mortal sins, and Moslems seem
                    to be guilty of both. Pride, for not understanding their place in the
                    scheme of things, where life is never fair for anyone, and everyone is
                    getting screwed over at some time in their history. Sometimes, you
                    need just to accept your lot in life, even if it is not pleasant. The
                    best thing for the Palestinians to do is to go and live elsewhere to
                    try to make something of their lives. It makes no sense just to
                    fight, and it seems there will always be Palestinians who will just
                    want to fight.

                    I think the Jews would be willing to live in peace with the
                    Palestinians, if only the Palestinians would stop attacking the Jews.
                    But the Palestinians don't seem willing to do that. The simple fact
                    is that the Jews were screwed over repeatedly in more ways than the
                    Moslems ever were in history. Yes, the Europeans decided to give them
                    a break for once. But how much trouble is it really for the Moslem
                    world to let the Jews live in peace? It's like, the Moslems have half
                    of two whole continents, and the Jews just have this little tiny area,
                    but the Moslems want that too! This is not just anti-Zionism, it is
                    anti-Jew.
                  • MD
                    That one had this room full of people laughing. Excellent joke Martin. To quote my friend Bryan(or was it Bruce), not worthy of a response .
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 29, 2001
                      That one had this room full of people laughing. Excellent joke Martin.
                      To quote my friend Bryan(or was it Bruce), 'not worthy of a response'.
                    • Nima Hazini
                      I just saw this. I guess AliZ never heard of the late Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, a hero to most Palestinian nationalists, yet a Nazi
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 30, 2001
                        I just saw this. I guess AliZ never heard of the late Mufti of
                        Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, a hero to most Palestinian
                        nationalists, yet a Nazi collaborator who went to Berlin during WII
                        and whose ranting diatribes against Jews and the British alike was a
                        regular feature of the Arabic section of the Voice of Berlin. So put
                        that in your pipe and smoke it.

                        cheers,
                        Nima


                        --- In wtcattack@y..., "AliZ" <alizaoua2000@y...> wrote:
                        > This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. European states
                        > have done far more against the jewish People than the "muslims"
                        > and the "arabs" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
                        > coveniently side stepped by many jews and israelis as some sort of
                        > excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus continuing the
                        > demonization of the "muslims" and "arabs" in a vicious cycle, ad
                        > nauseum.
                        > Neither Palestine nor the Arabs has had anything to do with the
                        > deplorable 2nd class status that many Jewss have found themselves
                        all
                        > over Europe - but those European "beacons of civilisation" do bare
                        > responsibility. Palestinians did not massacre several million
                        jewish
                        > civilians in the space of a few short years in Germany in the early
                        > 40s, but the late Fuhrer Hitler did. Palestine did not commit
                        > practical genocide against Jews and bulldoze to the ground their
                        > synaguoges, but the late Communist President Stalin did.
                        > And so on and so forth.
                        > Yes, palestinian warriors have committed some horrendous things
                        > against Israelis, but compared to what the European states
                        themselves
                        > have done to their own jewish citizens, it is nothing - a night and
                        > day difference, as a matter of fact. Palestine (which btw is not
                        > going to go away) is merely an excuse and crutch for many jews to
                        > seek revenge elsewhere, nothing more. To argue that arab support
                        for
                        > Palestine precipitated the clash of civilisations , is not only
                        > offensive, but an outright red herring; a red herring no less which
                        > seeks to somehow tacitly endorse a future genocide.
                        >
                        > cheers,
                        > Ali
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In wtcattack@y..., "Nima Hazini" <lotusapt@w...> wrote:
                        > > This is a typical one sided view of the conflict. Arab states
                        have
                        > > done far more against the Muslims (and Palestinians) than
                        > the "Jews"
                        > > and "Israel" could ever hope to do, yet this fact is always
                        > > coveniently side stepped by many Muslims and Palestinians as some
                        > > sort of excuse to justify their angst-driven behavior, thus
                        > > continuing the demonization of the "Jew" and "Israel" in a
                        vicious
                        > > cycle, ad nauseum.
                        > > Neither Israel nor the Jew has had anything to do with the
                        > > deplorable 2nd class status that many Palestinian Muslims have
                        > found
                        > > themselves in Arab countries - but those Arab governments do bare
                        > > responsibility. Israel did not massacre several thousand
                        > Palestinian
                        > > fedayin in the space of a few short weeks in Jordan in the early
                        > 70s,
                        > > but the late King Hussein did. Israel did not commit practical
                        > > genocide against Muslims and bulldoze to the ground the town of
                        > Hama
                        > > in Syria in 1982, but the late Baathist President Hafiz al-Assad
                        > did.
                        > > And so on and so forth.
                        > > Yes, Israeli governments have committed some horrendous things
                        > > against Palestinians, but compared to what the Arab states
                        > themselves
                        > > have done to their own Muslims and Palestinian refugees, it is
                        > > nothing - a night and day difference, as a matter of fact. Israel
                        > > (which btw is not going to go away) is merely an excuse and
                        crutch
                        > > for many Muslims and Palestinians to vent upon, nothing more. To
                        > > argue that America's support for Israel precipitated the 9-11
                        > > terrorist attack on the WTC in NY, is not only offensive, but an
                        > > outright red herring; a red herring no less which seeks to
                        somehow
                        > > tacitly endorse those attacks.
                        > >
                        > > cheers,
                        > > Nima
                        > >
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