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On The Recent Killings In Israel

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  • Jack Malki
    I ve always thought of Israeli leaders as a generally intelligent group. But it never ceases to amaze me that these leaders keep blaming the Palestinians for
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 2, 2001
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      I've always thought of Israeli leaders as a generally intelligent
      group.

      But it never ceases to amaze me that these leaders keep blaming the
      Palestinians for the suicide killings in Israel.

      Yes, these killings are atrocious and horrible and perpetrated by
      Palestinians, but the Israelis can end these desperate killings very
      quickly by doing something only they can do... end their brutal
      occupation of the Palestinian people.

      I don't know of any people in the history of mankind who has not
      fought against their occupiers by whatever means they had at their
      disposal. Palestinians are no different. You'd think Israel's leaders
      would learn from history.

      Here's an excellent article from a Palestinian-American, if you are
      interested.

      Jack

      -----------------------------



      Bombs and Wreaths

      by Ali Abunimah

      December 2, 2001

      Once again Israelis are shocked and horrified that innocent men,
      women and children have been blown up by suicide bombers in the
      heart of Jerusalem and in the mixed Palestinian-Jewish city of
      Haifa. No decent person can refrain from condemning such attacks in
      the strongest terms. Such deeds harm not only their innocent
      victimsin this case also likely to include Palestinian citizens of
      Israel--but debase the just cause of Palestine which is one that has
      no need to stoop to the levels of cruelty and dehumanization that
      Israel has routinely used against us.

      Yet I find myself starting to feel cynical and jaded even in the
      face of such horror and misery. As a Palestinian I find that the
      media asks and challenges me about views on such horrific bombings.
      I dutifully repeat my condemnation, and state that I oppose the
      targeting and killing of all innocent civilians regardless of
      whether they are Israelis or Palestinians.

      I wonder why I am so rarely asked by the same media how I feel when
      Palestinians are killed. No one asked how I felt last week when five
      Palestinian schoolboys were killed by a bomb planted by the Israeli
      occupation forces in their refugee camp in Gaza. I wonder why it is
      not demanded of Israelis and pro-Israeli Jews who appear on TV to
      condemn the violence that is committed in their name against
      Palestinians the way I am asked to condemn violence by Palestinians
      against Israelis.

      I watch in amazement the latest US envoy General Anthony Zinni
      laying a wreath in Jerusalem at the site of the bombings there in
      memory and mourning for yet more innocent dead. But where was the
      American wreath for the five boys killed in Gaza? Why do twenty-six
      dead Israelis make a crisis that mobilizes the whole world and
      saturates the media, while the targeting and killing of hundreds of
      unarmed Palestinian civilians, one third of them children, and the
      suffocation by siege of three million more is simply background
      noise unworthy of attention?

      In response to the attacks, US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
      said that "the only way to defend against terrorists is to go after
      the terrorists."

      This can only be understood as an endorsement of Israels policy of
      extrajudicial executions which last week took the life of a senior
      Hamas leader, put an end to a tacit ceasefire with Hamas, and
      directly triggered the latest round of suicide bombings. Perhaps
      Rumsfeld is giving a green light for even greater atrocities that
      have yet to unfold. After a brief meeting with President Bush,
      Israels prime minister Ariel Sharon is flying back from Washington
      to direct the vengeance operations in person. What will it be this
      time? More F-16 attacks? More death squad killings? More shelling of
      refugee camps? More houses destroyed? More kidnappings? More
      torture? An even tighter blockade of the occupied territories? These
      are the regular items on the Israeli menu.

      None of these are likely to satisfy the Israeli governments
      appetite, after all, all have been tried and continue to be tried
      relentlessly and without mercy. Perhaps this time Sharon will order
      the specialto fulfill his dream and either kill Yasir Arafat or
      at least send him back into exile. After all, as US Secretary of
      State Colin Powell put it this morning, this is the "moment of
      truth" for Arafat. (When, Mr. Powell, does Israels moment of truth
      arrive?)

      My response to all of this is a big shrug. So they send Arafat back
      to Tunis or assassinate him, the occupation will still be there.
      The Israelis will be the losers because they will no longer have the
      decrepit old man, their "bin Laden" to blame for all their problems.
      They will come face to face with the fact that it is their
      occupation and their attempt to crush all opposition to it that is
      the fuel of the conflict. Palestinians will be neither better off
      nor worse off. Some even think that a return to direct military
      occupation without the intermediary of the Palestinian Authority can
      only sharpen the confrontation and hence bring it to its conclusion
      more rapidly.

      Certainly no serious person believes that Arafat and his
      lieutenants, nominally controlling a few divided scraps of land in
      the occupied West Bank and Gaza, bombed daily by the Israeli army,
      can through coercion, arrests and torture do what Israel with all
      its might has failed to dobring about an unconditional end to all
      resistance against the occupation or attacks on Israeli civilians.
      Rumsfeld revealed that even he doubts that Arafat can succeed when
      he told NBCs "Meet the Press" that Arafat "is not a particularly
      strong leader, and I don't know that he has good control over the
      Palestinian situation." But Zionist orthodoxy in the United States,
      enforced by Israels intransigent and powerful lobby, demands that
      all the ugly symptoms of 53 years of relentless and unspeakably
      brutal dispossession and repression of millions of people by Israel,
      and decades of US collusion and support for these policies, be
      blamed on one man. All too aware of its assigned role, the
      Palestinian Authority has declared a "state of emergency." This
      amounts to little in practice since all the means of repression and
      arbitrary rule at the disposal of the PA are already in full use
      while none of the means that could actually improve the lives of
      Palestinians are granted to it by the Israeli occupier.

      This morning the BBC World Service asked Mr. Rolf Mayer, a former
      minister in the last Apartheid government of South Africa whether
      from his experience he thought that the onus was on the Israeli
      government or the Palestinians to act to end this conflict. Mayer
      said that it was not until the Apartheid governmentthe side with
      the powergave up the dream of perpetuating white rule that South
      Africa could move forward, and that therefore it was up to
      Israelthe side with the powerto decide to end its occupation.
      Mayer said that negotiations take place in the context of conflict
      and therefore the demand that all violence be stopped as a
      precondition for negotiations was one which would have doomed the
      South African peace talks to failure.

      Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, Apartheid South Africa and Israel
      were close military and political allies. So it is saying something
      when even Israels former Apartheid friends are telling it to see
      reality in a different way. And it is remarkable to think that when
      everyone in the world sees things clearly, only the United States
      government and media pretend they do not.

      So last week the burden of death fell on Palestinians. This week on
      Israelis. The only surprise will be if in the coming week dozens
      more innocent people are not killed.

      Mr. Zinni said he will stay in the region until he succeeds in
      getting a ceasefire. But if US policy is going to continue to ignore
      the root causes of the conflict, then I advise Mr. Zinni to do two
      things: start looking for a comfortable house and find a reliable
      supplier of wreaths.

      Ali Abunimah
    • mole333@hotmail.com
      No. There is a BIG difference between fighting against your occupiers and targeting civilians. The Palestinians who throw rocks at Israli soldiers are fighting
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 3, 2001
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        No. There is a BIG difference between fighting against your occupiers
        and targeting civilians. The Palestinians who throw rocks at Israli
        soldiers are fighting their occupiers. The bombings of malls and buses
        are terrorist acts. The Palestinians lose ALL credibility when these
        things happen. The Arab world condemns America for attacking the
        Taliban for their support of bin Laden and his war on America, but
        somehow the bombing of Israli malls and buses are simply a war against
        occupiers.

        Up until now I have been sympathetic to the Palestinians, though I am
        pro-Israel in general. Now I feel that until the Palestinians and their
        sympathizers STOP THE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS, any peace process is
        impossible. The bombing of civilians by Palestinians MUST STOP or peace
        is impossible. Right or wrong, that is a political fact. These bombings
        do more to harm the Palestinian cause than help it. I for one was
        previously sympathetic to the Palestinians, but now I am forced to
        admit that that evil bastard Sharon is right on this one issue. The
        Palestinians must FIRST stop the terrorists, THEN the peace process can
        resume.

        David
        http://home.talkcity.com/YosemiteDr/mole333/index.html

        --- In wtcattack@y..., "Jack Malki" <custom@p...> wrote:
        > I've always thought of Israeli leaders as a generally intelligent
        > group.
        >
        > But it never ceases to amaze me that these leaders keep blaming the
        > Palestinians for the suicide killings in Israel.
        >
        > Yes, these killings are atrocious and horrible and perpetrated by
        > Palestinians, but the Israelis can end these desperate killings very
        > quickly by doing something only they can do... end their brutal
        > occupation of the Palestinian people.
        >
        > I don't know of any people in the history of mankind who has not
        > fought against their occupiers by whatever means they had at their
        > disposal. Palestinians are no different. You'd think Israel's leaders
        > would learn from history.
        >
        > Here's an excellent article from a Palestinian-American, if you are
        > interested.
        >
        > Jack
        >
        > -----------------------------
        >
      • Ian C Naish
        Arafat, Sharon, Rumsfield, et al. will all meet up in hell, wher they can compare notes. Ian ________________________________________________________________
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 3, 2001
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          Arafat, Sharon, Rumsfield, et al. will all meet up in
          hell, wher they can compare notes.

          Ian

          ________________________________________________________________
          Nokia 5510 looks weird sounds great.
          Go to http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ discover and win it!
          The competition ends 16 th of December 2001.
        • Jack Malki
          David, You sound very much like me. I am not against any people. I just want to see both Israelis and Palestinians live in peace. Please let me offer some
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 4, 2001
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            David,
            You sound very much like me. I am not against any people. I just want
            to see both Israelis and Palestinians live in peace. Please let me
            offer some alternate thoughts to some of what you said, however.


            "There is a BIG difference between fighting against your occupiers and
            targeting civilians. The Palestinians who throw rocks at Israeli
            soldiers are fighting their occupiers. The bombings of malls and buses
            are terrorist acts. The Palestinians lose ALL credibility when these
            things happen."

            David, you are right about the loss of support for the Palestinian
            cause. The suicide bombers are desperate and short-sighted
            politically. However, I can understand how people can be driven to
            that point of desperation by such a hideous occupation that has gone
            on now for decades with no end in sight.


            "Now I feel that until the Palestinians and their sympathizers STOP
            THE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS, any peace process is impossible. The
            bombing of civilians by Palestinians MUST STOP or peace is
            impossible."

            Again, I agree. However, Israel is probably making one of it's most
            stupid, self-defeating decisions right about now. It is considering
            getting rid of Arafat. If the Israelis do that they will be getting
            rid of a secular leader. That will inevitably strengthen the hands of
            the fanatic religious leaders who, until recently, have never had the
            support of more than 20% of the Palestinians. The result for Israel
            will be even more attacks on civilians.


            "I for one was previously sympathetic to the Palestinians, but now I
            am forced to admit that that evil bastard Sharon is right on this one
            issue."

            Thanks for calling Sharon an evil bastard. My feelings exactly. But he
            is also a very shrewd leader. My guess is that his real goal is to
            realize the ultimate Zionist dream of Eretz Israel. That dream, which
            many extreme rightists like Sharon harbor, is to get rid of all
            non-Jews in Israel and expand Israel's borders to where they were in
            biblical times. Sounds unrealistic, to be sure. But Sharon and quite a
            few others in Israeli leadership feel that way. The Tourism Minister
            who was recently killed was a prime example of that mindset, and
            that's one of the main reasons the Palestinians targeted him.

            So, it may be that Sharon's real objective is to strengthen the hands
            of the religious fanatics among the Palestinians. That way the
            Palestinian cause loses all respectability in the world and Israel can
            commence it's verson of "ethnic cleansing." I am not positive, and a
            smart guy like Sharon would never admit it in public, but I am pretty
            sure that is exactly what he's after based on his past behaviour.


            "The Palestinians must FIRST stop the terrorists, THEN the peace
            process can resume."

            This seems reasonable, but there are a couple of reasons why I don't
            think it is realistic.

            First, before this Intifada started about a year ago, when there was
            some hope for a real peace, you may remember that Palestinians were
            relatively peaceful. But, even while they were talking peace, the
            Israelis were doing something very sinister: they were very actively
            building new illegal settlements, paving new Jewish only roads, and
            generally doing the exact opposite of what a peace partner should do.
            Ha'aretz newspaper, one of Israel's better ones, reported that during
            this "peace process" period, Israel did more illegal settlement
            building than at any other time in it's history. So, to Palestinians,
            the Israeli call for them to "stop the fighting and then we'll talk
            peace" is a sham.

            Secondly, the collapse of the talks, the the installation in Israel of
            an extreme right-wing Arab-hating leader, coupled by a hideous
            occupation of hostile military rule, rapidly expanding Jewish
            settlements, brutal reprisals against Palestinians, bulldozers,
            checkpoints, Jewish only roads, and no sign of an end to this
            nightmare makes it almost impossible for people to sit back and put
            their trust in genuine good motives from the Israelis. In other words,
            too many Palestinians now believe that Israel is not really interested
            in peace. If she was interested in peace, many ask, then why did she
            pursue all those peace-killing policies during the peaceful period
            before the Intifada began, such as the expedited settlement
            constructions, etc.

            ----------

            David, I believe that Israel holds the key to peace. It's really
            simple: end the occupation. Let the Palestinians breath free. By doing
            so the Israelis will have extinguished the fuel of injustice and
            hostile occupation which keeps the Palestinians fighting.

            So, in a sense, I blame Israel for the killing of her own citizens,
            because her policies are only creating enemies that are more desperate
            and determined, and she keeps the fuel of injustice filled to the
            brim.

            Jack
          • michad03
            In many ways I agree with you. I blame Sharon for the collapse of the Clinton-based peace process, though the Palestinian millitants sure helped him along. But
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 6, 2001
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              In many ways I agree with you. I blame Sharon for the collapse of the
              Clinton-based peace process, though the Palestinian millitants sure
              helped him along. But the more violent Hamas becomes, the more I cannot
              help but see things from Sharon's view. Until Hamas is stopped, how can
              there be peace?

              As for Israel targeting Arafat, I think I agree that this seems to be a
              blunder. It seems like they may be attacking the only comparatively
              moderate force on the Palestinian side. I wouldn't be surprised if
              Sharon really just wants to destroy or push out all Palestinians. But
              Hamas is giving him all the ammunition he needs. In fact, if the
              Palestinians had simply shrugged off Sharon's cynical power play where
              he went to the Temple Mount with a huge show of force, Sharon wouldn't
              even be in power now. But instead they handed him power on a plate and
              continue to do so. The future of the area SHOULD lie with Peres, Barak
              and maybe Arafat, but currently the future is being determined by
              Sharon and Hamas. THAT is scary.

              David
              http://home.talkcity.com/YosemiteDr/mole333/index.html

              --- In wtcattack@y..., "Jack Malki" <custom@p...> wrote:
              > David,
              > You sound very much like me. I am not against any people. I just want
              > to see both Israelis and Palestinians live in peace. Please let me
              > offer some alternate thoughts to some of what you said, however.
              >
              >
              > "There is a BIG difference between fighting against your occupiers and
              > targeting civilians. The Palestinians who throw rocks at Israeli
              > soldiers are fighting their occupiers. The bombings of malls and buses
              > are terrorist acts. The Palestinians lose ALL credibility when these
              > things happen."
              >
              > David, you are right about the loss of support for the Palestinian
              > cause. The suicide bombers are desperate and short-sighted
              > politically. However, I can understand how people can be driven to
              > that point of desperation by such a hideous occupation that has gone
              > on now for decades with no end in sight.
              >
              >
              > "Now I feel that until the Palestinians and their sympathizers STOP
              > THE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS, any peace process is impossible. The
              > bombing of civilians by Palestinians MUST STOP or peace is
              > impossible."
              >
              > Again, I agree. However, Israel is probably making one of it's most
              > stupid, self-defeating decisions right about now. It is considering
              > getting rid of Arafat. If the Israelis do that they will be getting
              > rid of a secular leader. That will inevitably strengthen the hands of
              > the fanatic religious leaders who, until recently, have never had the
              > support of more than 20% of the Palestinians. The result for Israel
              > will be even more attacks on civilians.
              >
              >
              > "I for one was previously sympathetic to the Palestinians, but now I
              > am forced to admit that that evil bastard Sharon is right on this one
              > issue."
              >
              > Thanks for calling Sharon an evil bastard. My feelings exactly. But he
              > is also a very shrewd leader. My guess is that his real goal is to
              > realize the ultimate Zionist dream of Eretz Israel. That dream, which
              > many extreme rightists like Sharon harbor, is to get rid of all
              > non-Jews in Israel and expand Israel's borders to where they were in
              > biblical times. Sounds unrealistic, to be sure. But Sharon and quite a
              > few others in Israeli leadership feel that way. The Tourism Minister
              > who was recently killed was a prime example of that mindset, and
              > that's one of the main reasons the Palestinians targeted him.
              >
              > So, it may be that Sharon's real objective is to strengthen the hands
              > of the religious fanatics among the Palestinians. That way the
              > Palestinian cause loses all respectability in the world and Israel can
              > commence it's verson of "ethnic cleansing." I am not positive, and a
              > smart guy like Sharon would never admit it in public, but I am pretty
              > sure that is exactly what he's after based on his past behaviour.
              >
              >
              > "The Palestinians must FIRST stop the terrorists, THEN the peace
              > process can resume."
              >
              > This seems reasonable, but there are a couple of reasons why I don't
              > think it is realistic.
              >
              > First, before this Intifada started about a year ago, when there was
              > some hope for a real peace, you may remember that Palestinians were
              > relatively peaceful. But, even while they were talking peace, the
              > Israelis were doing something very sinister: they were very actively
              > building new illegal settlements, paving new Jewish only roads, and
              > generally doing the exact opposite of what a peace partner should do.
              > Ha'aretz newspaper, one of Israel's better ones, reported that during
              > this "peace process" period, Israel did more illegal settlement
              > building than at any other time in it's history. So, to Palestinians,
              > the Israeli call for them to "stop the fighting and then we'll talk
              > peace" is a sham.
              >
              > Secondly, the collapse of the talks, the the installation in Israel of
              > an extreme right-wing Arab-hating leader, coupled by a hideous
              > occupation of hostile military rule, rapidly expanding Jewish
              > settlements, brutal reprisals against Palestinians, bulldozers,
              > checkpoints, Jewish only roads, and no sign of an end to this
              > nightmare makes it almost impossible for people to sit back and put
              > their trust in genuine good motives from the Israelis. In other words,
              > too many Palestinians now believe that Israel is not really interested
              > in peace. If she was interested in peace, many ask, then why did she
              > pursue all those peace-killing policies during the peaceful period
              > before the Intifada began, such as the expedited settlement
              > constructions, etc.
              >
              > ----------
              >
              > David, I believe that Israel holds the key to peace. It's really
              > simple: end the occupation. Let the Palestinians breath free. By doing
              > so the Israelis will have extinguished the fuel of injustice and
              > hostile occupation which keeps the Palestinians fighting.
              >
              > So, in a sense, I blame Israel for the killing of her own citizens,
              > because her policies are only creating enemies that are more desperate
              > and determined, and she keeps the fuel of injustice filled to the
              > brim.
              >
              > Jack
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