Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RH 4/3 Modes

Expand Messages
  • Randy Tipton
    Just a friendly reminder that starting tomorrow for the Random Hours the modes are FSK441B for 144 MHz and FSK441C for 50MHz. The change was implemented in the
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Just a friendly reminder that starting tomorrow for the Random Hours the
      modes are FSK441B for 144 MHz and FSK441C for 50MHz.

      The change was implemented in the Group Announcements and I think Bruce
      made mention of it last week. I have made numerous contacts using
      FSK441C on six meters & have found the slower speed decodes much better
      than the older mode A. My experience with FSK441B on two meters has been
      limited so we are looking forward to see how it does during the activity
      period.

      It would be nice to see some good rocks for the two meter session. Don't
      forget to look for the guys out west if you're within range of Arizona
      and New Mexico. It has been encouraging to see some new activity out in
      the West! I believe now that three stations have qualified for the
      "Random QSO Award"; good luck & good rocks.

      Now if this weather would clear up.

      Regards
      Tip
      WA5UFH
    • Walter Miller
      Hey Tip, Don t forget to put in a good word for those of us isolated even further west in CA, OR, WA and VE7. There is some life out here, but it is hard to
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 2, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey Tip,

        Don't forget to put in a good word for those of us isolated even further
        west in CA, OR, WA and VE7. There is some life out here, but it is hard to
        find QSO partners, especially when calling CQ. I'll give FSK441B and
        FSK441C a try in the morning.

        73,
        Walt
        AJ6T, CM87

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Randy Tipton" <wa5ufh@...>
        To: <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:43 PM
        Subject: [wsjtgroup] RH 4/3 Modes


        > Just a friendly reminder that starting tomorrow for the Random Hours the
        > modes are FSK441B for 144 MHz and FSK441C for 50MHz.
        >
        > The change was implemented in the Group Announcements and I think Bruce
        > made mention of it last week. I have made numerous contacts using
        > FSK441C on six meters & have found the slower speed decodes much better
        > than the older mode A. My experience with FSK441B on two meters has been
        > limited so we are looking forward to see how it does during the activity
        > period.
        >
        > It would be nice to see some good rocks for the two meter session. Don't
        > forget to look for the guys out west if you're within range of Arizona
        > and New Mexico. It has been encouraging to see some new activity out in
        > the West! I believe now that three stations have qualified for the
        > "Random QSO Award"; good luck & good rocks.
        >
        > Now if this weather would clear up.
        >
        > Regards
        > Tip
        > WA5UFH
        >
      • Catharinus PE1AHX in JO21OS
        Hi Tip, here in Europe we have done some more (but still limited) testing on 144MHz with the 441A, 441B & 441C modes. This is made easier because of the high
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 3, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Tip,

          here in Europe we have done some more (but still limited) testing on 144MHz
          with the 441A, 441B & 441C modes. This is made easier because of the high
          MS activity (several hundred stations within 1000 mile radius). This high
          level of activity also makes it more difficult to 'just use' the new modes
          on the calling frequency (144.370) because of the confusion that generates.

          This means most tests have been done on sked. The results (my personal
          ones as well as derived from comments on the 144MHz chat
          http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php ) is that FSK441C is definitely to
          slow for the shorter bursts as they occur very frequently during sporadic
          meteors. A 40ms burst becaomes useless.

          FSK441B suffers a lot less from the slowdown (only 23% or 4 characters
          decoded becomes 3) but the slowdown on short bursts is still
          noticable. The main 'advantage' of 441B - the error correction - does not
          show in real world testing. Many of us have not seen an improvement in
          accuracy or seen easier completion when using 441B over 441A. It appears
          that the higher speed of 441A together with the 'visual' filtering (or
          error correction) still generates the fastest QSO's with the least amount
          of errors.

          While saying this I must emphasize that we Europeans do NOT use Single Tone
          or Short Hand messages since these are to error prone. It may well be that
          441B or C in those situations works better. The problem with ST is that
          any birdie can result in a 'valid' report so error correction may well help
          that situation.

          For now - other than the occasional exception - all QSO's are (still) made
          in FSK441A since it works best for us.

          If any of you want to discuss this real-time you can often find me on the
          ON4KST chat together with many other enthousiasts.
          http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php

          73 & gd rocks!
          Catharinus PE1AHX JO21os


          At 15:43 02-04-2004 -0600, you wrote:
          >Just a friendly reminder that starting tomorrow for the Random Hours the
          >modes are FSK441B for 144 MHz and FSK441C for 50MHz.
          >
          >The change was implemented in the Group Announcements and I think Bruce
          >made mention of it last week. I have made numerous contacts using
          >FSK441C on six meters & have found the slower speed decodes much better
          >than the older mode A. My experience with FSK441B on two meters has been
          >limited so we are looking forward to see how it does during the activity
          >period.
          >
          >It would be nice to see some good rocks for the two meter session. Don't
          >forget to look for the guys out west if you're within range of Arizona
          >and New Mexico. It has been encouraging to see some new activity out in
          >the West! I believe now that three stations have qualified for the
          >"Random QSO Award"; good luck & good rocks.
          >
          >Now if this weather would clear up.
          >
          >Regards
          >Tip
          >WA5UFH
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
          >wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >Activity Periods http://www.qsl.net/wa5ufh/WSJTGROUP/WSJTGROUP.htm
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Randy Tipton
          Tnx Catharinus for your comments of the Modes being used in Europe. Today was the first day for us to use FSK441B for the two meter Random Hour activity
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 3, 2004
          • 0 Attachment

            Tnx Catharinus for your comments of the Modes being used in Europe. Today was the first day for us to use FSK441B for the two meter Random Hour activity period. In the past we have used the “A” mode. Time will tell which mode is preferred here for the Random Hour contacts but first we have to experience some good rocks. Today I had very few rocks and was not able to say if better or worse.

             

            I do think we all agree that FSK441C is too slow for two meters but it does seem to work well on six meters. You did not mention which mode is being used on six meters most often in Europe? Using the “C” mode on six meters I find that pings decode more often automatically with fewer errors in the decoding and less mouse activity is required to force decodes. This of course is my opinion & other NA operators might have another view.

             

            Thanks

            Tip

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Catharinus PE1AHX in JO21OS [mailto:pe1ahx@...]
            Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:40 AM
            To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] RH 4/3 Modes

             

            Hi Tip,

            here in Europe we have done some more (but still limited) testing on 144MHz
            with the 441A, 441B & 441C modes.  This is made easier because of the high
            MS activity (several hundred stations within 1000 mile radius).  This high
            level of activity also makes it more difficult to 'just use' the new modes
            on the calling frequency (144.370) because of the confusion that generates.

            This means most tests have been done on sked.  The results (my personal
            ones as well as derived from comments on the 144MHz chat
            http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php ) is that FSK441C is definitely to
            slow for the shorter bursts as they occur very frequently during sporadic
            meteors.  A 40ms burst becaomes useless.

            FSK441B suffers a lot less from the slowdown (only 23% or 4 characters
            decoded becomes 3) but the slowdown on short bursts is still
            noticable.  The main 'advantage' of 441B - the error correction - does not
            show in real world testing.  Many of us have not seen an improvement in
            accuracy or seen easier completion when using 441B over 441A.  It appears
            that the higher speed of 441A together with the 'visual' filtering (or
            error correction) still generates the fastest QSO's with the least amount
            of errors.

            While saying this I must emphasize that we Europeans do NOT use Single Tone
            or Short Hand messages since these are to error prone.  It may well be that
            441B or C in those situations works better.  The problem with ST is that
            any birdie can result in a 'valid' report so error correction may well help
            that situation.

            For now - other than the occasional exception - all QSO's are (still) made
            in FSK441A since it works best for us.

            If any of you want to discuss this real-time you can often find me on the
            ON4KST chat together with many other enthousiasts.
            http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php

            73 & gd rocks!
            Catharinus PE1AHX JO21os


            At 15:43 02-04-2004 -0600, you wrote:
            >Just a friendly reminder that starting tomorrow for the Random Hours the
            >modes are FSK441B for 144 MHz and FSK441C for 50MHz.
            >
            >The change was implemented in the Group Announcements and I think Bruce
            >made mention of it last week. I have made numerous contacts using
            >FSK441C on six meters & have found the slower speed decodes much better
            >than the older mode A. My experience with FSK441B on two meters has been
            >limited so we are looking forward to see how it does during the activity
            >period.
            >
            >It would be nice to see some good rocks for the two meter session. Don't
            >forget to look for the guys out west if you're within range of Arizona
            >and New Mexico. It has been encouraging to see some new activity out in
            >the West! I believe now that three stations have qualified for the
            >"Random QSO Award"; good luck & good rocks.
            >
            >Now if this weather would clear up.
            >
            >Regards
            >Tip
            >WA5UFH
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
            >wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >Activity Periods http://www.qsl.net/wa5ufh/WSJTGROUP/WSJTGROUP.htm
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >




            To unsubscribe, send an email to:
            wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Activity Periods http://www.qsl.net/wa5ufh/WSJTGROUP/WSJTGROUP.htm




          • Mike Hasselbeck
            The report of PE1AHX is extremely interesting. Just mentioning that there are HUNDREDS of MS operators within a 1000 mile radius makes me want to move back
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 3, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              The report of PE1AHX is extremely interesting. Just mentioning that
              there are HUNDREDS of MS operators within a 1000 mile radius makes me want
              to move back there! The comments about FSK441A vs FSK441B are valuable
              and I'd venture us North Americans would need the better part of a year to
              build up the experience and knowledge base the Europeans have now. My
              initial reaction (on 144 MHz only) is that FSK441B is faster and more
              reliable, but I'd tend to defer to the conclusions obtained from a much
              larger database.

              It was noted that ST/SH messages are not used in Europe, but I doubt the
              North Americans would ever want to stop using them! Does this suggest that
              FSK441A may be the better choice for messages 1 and 2 while FSK441B is
              more reliable for the SH messages?

              Thank you Catharinus for your note.

              Mike WB2FKO
              New Mexico, USA
            • Catharinus PE1AHX in JO21OS
              ... It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 4, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                At 11:05 03-04-2004 -0700, Mike, WB2FKO wrote:
                ><snip>
                >It was noted that ST/SH messages are not used in Europe, but I doubt the
                >North Americans would ever want to stop using them! Does this suggest that
                >FSK441A may be the better choice for messages 1 and 2 while FSK441B is
                >more reliable for the SH messages?
                ><snip>

                It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away
                from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
                indication as to their origin or destination. Once you guys finally get
                the activity going which you would like, you will get very confusing
                situations on a calling frequency.... Where did the RRR come from (or who
                is it for)? What if 2 (or more) QSO's are at a similar stage on the same
                frequency (happens a lot over here). How reliable do you want the info
                received to be? Some may use DF but doppler can wreak havoc there.

                I must say that I don't use 'pure' EU default messages either. Up to and
                including message 3 full calls are send because until a R has been received
                from 'the other side' it is not clear whether 'the other side' has received
                that info.

                I adapted message 4 to 'RRRR my-suffix' to indicate origin and to keep the
                message short enough for a (very) short burst. Same with message 5: '73
                my-suffix'.

                Unidentified messages are a pain when the frequency is busy. This is the
                main reason to not use singletone/shorthand messages. I hope it will get
                busy enough there that you guys will get the same prolems we have :))

                73
                Catharinus PE1AHX JO21os (also N4QXT)
              • Catharinus PE1AHX in JO21OS
                Hi all, I thought I had send this message out, however I have not seen it come back via the list. Don t know what happened so will try one more time.
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 4, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi all,

                  I thought I had send this message out, however I have not seen it come back
                  via the list. Don't know what happened so will try one more
                  time. Apologies for the possible duplicate.

                  At 11:05 03-04-2004 -0700, Mike, WB2FKO wrote:
                  ><snip>
                  >It was noted that ST/SH messages are not used in Europe, but I doubt the
                  >North Americans would ever want to stop using them! Does this suggest that
                  >FSK441A may be the better choice for messages 1 and 2 while FSK441B is
                  >more reliable for the SH messages?
                  ><snip>

                  It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away
                  from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
                  indication as to their origin or destination. Once you guys finally get
                  the activity going which you would like, you will get very confusing
                  situations on a calling frequency.... Where did the RRR come from (or who
                  is it for)? What if 2 (or more) QSO's are at a similar stage on the same
                  frequency (happens a lot over here). How reliable do you want the info
                  received to be? Some may use DF but doppler can wreak havoc there.

                  I must say that I don't use 'pure' EU default messages either. Up to and
                  including message 3 full calls are send because until a R has been received
                  from 'the other side' it is not clear whether 'the other side' has received
                  that info.

                  I adapted message 4 to 'RRRR my-suffix' to indicate origin and to keep the
                  message short enough for a (very) short burst. Same with message 5: '73
                  my-suffix'.

                  Unidentified messages are a pain when the frequency is busy. This is the
                  main reason to not use singletone/shorthand messages. I hope it will get
                  busy enough there that you guys will get the same prolems we have :))

                  73
                  Catharinus PE1AHX JO21os (also N4QXT)
                • Randy Tipton
                  Thanks Catharinus. Snip It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 5, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Thanks Catharinus… Snip It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away
                    from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
                    indication as to their origin or destination.  Once you guys finally get
                    the activity going which you would like, you will get very confusing
                    situations on a calling frequency....  (END of PASTE)

                     

                    You are right about the ST/SH messages on the recognized call frequencies and I believe we are at that point now!

                    Most stations are reframing from the use of this type message on the call frequencies of 50.260 and 144.140MHz

                    now.

                     

                    You asked “How reliable do you want the info received to be?” I think we all strive for 100% and WSJT can provide that

                    when the meteors are there but when ST & SH messages are being used on “Call Frequencies” there is doubt.

                     

                    For the NA Activity Periods (i.e. Random Hours) all uses of Short Hand Messages and Single Tones are discouraged for the reasons

                    that you have stated. In my humble opinion, we are at that point you have mentioned but this will continue to be an educational problem

                    because of the large influx of new operators. (This is a good problem to have!)

                     

                    Tip

                     

                     

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Catharinus PE1AHX in JO21OS [mailto:pe1ahx@...]
                    Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:01 AM
                    To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] RH 4/3 Modes

                     

                    Hi all,

                    I thought I had send this message out, however I have not seen it come back
                    via the list.  Don't know what happened so will try one more
                    time.  Apologies for the possible duplicate.

                    At 11:05 03-04-2004 -0700, Mike, WB2FKO wrote:
                    ><snip>
                    >It was noted that ST/SH messages are not used in Europe, but I doubt the
                    >North Americans would ever want to stop using them! Does this suggest that
                    >FSK441A may be the better choice for messages 1 and 2 while FSK441B is
                    >more reliable for the SH messages?
                    ><snip>

                    It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away
                    from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
                    indication as to their origin or destination.  Once you guys finally get
                    the activity going which you would like, you will get very confusing
                    situations on a calling frequency....  Where did the RRR come from (or who
                    is it for)? What if 2 (or more) QSO's are at a similar stage on the same
                    frequency (happens a lot over here).  How reliable do you want the info
                    received to be?  Some may use DF but doppler can wreak havoc there.

                    I must say that I don't use 'pure' EU default messages either.  Up to and
                    including message 3 full calls are send because until a R has been received
                    from 'the other side' it is not clear whether 'the other side' has received
                    that info.

                    I adapted message 4 to 'RRRR my-suffix' to indicate origin and to keep the
                    message short enough for a (very) short burst.  Same with message 5: '73
                    my-suffix'.

                    Unidentified messages are a pain when the frequency is busy.  This is the
                    main reason to not use singletone/shorthand messages.  I hope it will get
                    busy enough there that you guys will get the same prolems we have :))

                    73
                    Catharinus PE1AHX JO21os (also N4QXT) 




                    To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                    wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Activity Periods http://www.qsl.net/wa5ufh/WSJTGROUP/WSJTGROUP.htm



                  • Randy Tipton
                    ... From: Randy Tipton [mailto:wa5ufh@ykc.com] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:30 PM To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] RH 4/3 Modes Thanks
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 5, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment

                       

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Randy Tipton [mailto:wa5ufh@...]
                      Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:30 PM
                      To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] RH 4/3 Modes

                       

                      Thanks Catharinus… Snip It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away
                      from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
                      indication as to their origin or destination.  Once you guys finally get
                      the activity going which you would like, you will get very confusing
                      situations on a calling frequency....  (END of PASTE)

                       

                      You are right about the ST/SH messages on the recognized call frequencies and I believe we are at that point now!

                      Most stations are reframing from the use of this type message on the call frequencies of 50.260 and 144.140MHz

                      now.

                       

                      You asked “How reliable do you want the info received to be?” I think we all strive for 100% and WSJT can provide that

                      when the meteors are there but when ST & SH messages are being used on “Call Frequencies” there is doubt.

                       

                      For the NA Activity Periods (i.e. Random Hours) all uses of Short Hand Messages and Single Tones are discouraged for the reasons

                      that you have stated. In my humble opinion, we are at that point you have mentioned but this will continue to be an educational problem

                      because of the large influx of new operators. (This is a good problem to have!)

                       

                      Tip

                       

                       

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Catharinus PE1AHX in JO21OS [mailto:pe1ahx@...]
                      Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:01 AM
                      To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] RH 4/3 Modes

                       

                      Hi all,

                      I thought I had send this message out, however I have not seen it come back
                      via the list.  Don't know what happened so will try one more
                      time.  Apologies for the possible duplicate.

                      At 11:05 03-04-2004 -0700, Mike, WB2FKO wrote:
                      ><snip>
                      >It was noted that ST/SH messages are not used in Europe, but I doubt the
                      >North Americans would ever want to stop using them! Does this suggest that
                      >FSK441A may be the better choice for messages 1 and 2 while FSK441B is
                      >more reliable for the SH messages?
                      ><snip>

                      It would appear to me that NA stations at some point will have to move away
                      from ST/SH messages as the (default) messages 3,4 & 5 do not have any
                      indication as to their origin or destination.  Once you guys finally get
                      the activity going which you would like, you will get very confusing
                      situations on a calling frequency....  Where did the RRR come from (or who
                      is it for)? What if 2 (or more) QSO's are at a similar stage on the same
                      frequency (happens a lot over here).  How reliable do you want the info
                      received to be?  Some may use DF but doppler can wreak havoc there.

                      I must say that I don't use 'pure' EU default messages either.  Up to and
                      including message 3 full calls are send because until a R has been received
                      from 'the other side' it is not clear whether 'the other side' has received
                      that info.

                      I adapted message 4 to 'RRRR my-suffix' to indicate origin and to keep the
                      message short enough for a (very) short burst.  Same with message 5: '73
                      my-suffix'.

                      Unidentified messages are a pain when the frequency is busy.  This is the
                      main reason to not use singletone/shorthand messages.  I hope it will get
                      busy enough there that you guys will get the same prolems we have :))

                      73
                      Catharinus PE1AHX JO21os (also N4QXT) 




                      To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                      wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Activity Periods http://www.qsl.net/wa5ufh/WSJTGROUP/WSJTGROUP.htm




                      To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                      wsjtgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Activity Periods http://www.qsl.net/wa5ufh/WSJTGROUP/WSJTGROUP.htm




                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.