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RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

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  • Russ K2TXB
    The solution is easy. You need to listen to more than just the 73 and then you can tell easily. In case single tone 73 is being used (Note 1), there is
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 13, 2012
      The solution is easy.  You need to listen to more than just the 73 and then you can tell easily.  In case single tone 73 is being used (Note 1), there is nothing wrong with calling the station who's frequency it is, during the time the other station is sending 73.  WSJT can easily decode both, and the user can easily see the 73 on the screen.  We do this all the time on EME.  If you wish to call the other station (the one who did not call CQ) then it is advisable to move your TX frequency off a few hundred Hz or so, so as to not interfere with other callers who may be calling the CQ station.
       
      Adding data to the 73 is not desirable as it would drastically reduce the detection sensitivity of the 73 message.
       
      Note 1: Even if the 73 is not being sent via single tone you can call the station by moving your TX frequency far enough to not interfere.  WSJT can easily decode both as long as the operator observes your call and causes JT65 to decode it.
       
      73, Russ K2TXB


      From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ollieoxen27
      Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:53 AM
      To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

       

      It would be nice if when a station sends the 73 message there was a way to tell if the station you are listening to is sending the first 73 or the response 73. Perhaps adding designators after the 73 such as 731 and 732, or 73F and 73S.

      I never know when the station I am about to call has signed off or is waiting for the final response from the last station. It's not always possible to hear both sides of the qso.

      Tim

    • Russ K2TXB
      Kim, if you listen to the whole qso then you know who is first by what he is sending. For example if he sends RRR then he was first. If he sends RO he was
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 13, 2012
        Kim, if you listen to the whole qso then you know who is first by what he is sending.  For example if he sends RRR then he was first.  If he sends RO he was second.  Rarely does this get turned around.  If you did not listen to the whole QSO then you don't know who he is anyway so how can you call him?
         
        Of course there are a few beginners who seem to want to send all of the messages rather than alternating as per the protocol.  If you run into one of those then you must have listened to the whole QSO to know who started.
         
        > I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who started the one I'm picking up on.
         
        In that case you do not know who either station is, so you can't call them anyway.  Then you must wait for one of the stations to call CQ, or call QRZ or CQ yourself.
         
        73, Russ
         


        From: Kim Medley [mailto:ollieoxen27@...]
        Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:13 AM
        To: k2txb@...
        Subject: Re: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

        Russ,

        Following your suggestions you still don't know who the first caller was. I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who started the one I'm picking up on. Maybe the second station should always use the single tone 73?


        Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



        From: Russ K2TXB <k2txb@...>;
        To: 'ollieoxen27' <ollieoxen27@...>; <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com>;
        Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
        Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 11:58:22 AM

        The solution is easy.  You need to listen to more than just the 73 and then you can tell easily.  In case single tone 73 is being used (Note 1), there is nothing wrong with calling the station who's frequency it is, during the time the other station is sending 73.  WSJT can easily decode both, and the user can easily see the 73 on the screen.  We do this all the time on EME.  If you wish to call the other station (the one who did not call CQ) then it is advisable to move your TX frequency off a few hundred Hz or so, so as to not interfere with other callers who may be calling the CQ station.
         
        Adding data to the 73 is not desirable as it would drastically reduce the detection sensitivity of the 73 message.
         
        Note 1: Even if the 73 is not being sent via single tone you can call the station by moving your TX frequency far enough to not interfere.  WSJT can easily decode both as long as the operator observes your call and causes JT65 to decode it.
         
        73, Russ K2TXB


        From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ollieoxen27
        Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:53 AM
        To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

         

        It would be nice if when a station sends the 73 message there was a way to tell if the station you are listening to is sending the first 73 or the response 73. Perhaps adding designators after the 73 such as 731 and 732, or 73F and 73S.

        I never know when the station I am about to call has signed off or is waiting for the final response from the last station. It's not always possible to hear both sides of the qso.

        Tim

      • Barry Garratt
        Kim, If these are terrestrial QSO s then it s easy to know who is transmitting what because both calls are always shown. Also on HF single tones are never
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 13, 2012

          Kim,

           

          If these are terrestrial QSO’s then it’s easy to know who is transmitting what because both calls are always shown. Also on HF single tones are never used. I guess I shouldn’t say never because every now and then some will do it but that’s not even 1% of the time.

           

          If you are talking EME then that of course is a different story entirely.

           

          Barry KS7DX

           

           

          From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ K2TXB
          Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:01 AM
          To: 'ollieoxen27'; wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

           

           

          Kim, if you listen to the whole qso then you know who is first by what he is sending.  For example if he sends RRR then he was first.  If he sends RO he was second.  Rarely does this get turned around.  If you did not listen to the whole QSO then you don't know who he is anyway so how can you call him?

           

          Of course there are a few beginners who seem to want to send all of the messages rather than alternating as per the protocol.  If you run into one of those then you must have listened to the whole QSO to know who started.

           

          > I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who started the one I'm picking up on.

           

          In that case you do not know who either station is, so you can't call them anyway.  Then you must wait for one of the stations to call CQ, or call QRZ or CQ yourself.

           

          73, Russ

           

           


          From: Kim Medley [mailto:ollieoxen27@...]
          Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:13 AM
          To: k2txb@...
          Subject: Re: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

          Russ,

          Following your suggestions you still don't know who the first caller was. I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who started the one I'm picking up on. Maybe the second station should always use the single tone 73?

          Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

           


          From: Russ K2TXB <k2txb@...>;
          To: 'ollieoxen27' <ollieoxen27@...>; <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
          Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 11:58:22 AM

          The solution is easy.  You need to listen to more than just the 73 and then you can tell easily.  In case single tone 73 is being used (Note 1), there is nothing wrong with calling the station who's frequency it is, during the time the other station is sending 73.  WSJT can easily decode both, and the user can easily see the 73 on the screen.  We do this all the time on EME.  If you wish to call the other station (the one who did not call CQ) then it is advisable to move your TX frequency off a few hundred Hz or so, so as to not interfere with other callers who may be calling the CQ station.

           

          Adding data to the 73 is not desirable as it would drastically reduce the detection sensitivity of the 73 message.

           

          Note 1: Even if the 73 is not being sent via single tone you can call the station by moving your TX frequency far enough to not interfere.  WSJT can easily decode both as long as the operator observes your call and causes JT65 to decode it.

           

          73, Russ K2TXB

           


          From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ollieoxen27
          Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:53 AM
          To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

           

          It would be nice if when a station sends the 73 message there was a way to tell if the station you are listening to is sending the first 73 or the response 73. Perhaps adding designators after the 73 such as 731 and 732, or 73F and 73S.

          I never know when the station I am about to call has signed off or is waiting for the final response from the last station. It's not always possible to hear both sides of the qso.

          Tim

        • Russ K2TXB
          And I was trying to be nice by not posting to the group when you sent to me privately. Well this is the end. You are not a friendly ham, especially to
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 13, 2012
            And I was trying to be nice by not posting to the group when you sent to me privately.  Well this is the end.  You are not a friendly ham, especially to someone who is trying to help by explaining things to you.  I will no longer respond to you or to this thread.
             
            For what it's worth, I probably have more experience on WSJT than anyone here.  I have made thousands of contacts and worked sixty or seventy countries, all states, and all continents on 2 meters via JT65.  I can do the JT65 protocol in my sleep (and have done so :).  So I think I know what I am talking about.  It is time for me to get off this and let someone who has more time attempt to help.  Good luck to them!
             
            Russ K2TXB
             


            From: Kim Medley [mailto:ollieoxen27@...]
            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:11 PM
            To: Russ K2TXB
            Subject: Re: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

            Post all my responses in the group and I'll respond. You won't do that because you know you are in error.

            Tim

             


            From: Russ K2TXB <k2txb@...>
            To: 'Kim Medley' <ollieoxen27@...>
            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:36 PM
            Subject: RE: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

            It does not make sense.  If you want to call someone, you have to know their call.  In order to know their call you have to have copied one of their initial sequences.
             
            CQ K2TXB FN20
            K2TXB K1JT FN20
            K1JT K2TXB OOO
            RO
            RRR
            73
            73
             
            If you did not copy one of the first 3 sequences above then you have no idea who you want to call.  If you did copy one of those sequences then you do know the calls and you know who is first.  It's as simple as that!
             
            Insulting someone by saying they have no common sense is no way to be a friendly ham!
             
            73, Russ K2TXB
             
             


            From: Kim Medley [mailto:ollieoxen27@...]
            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:20 PM
            To: Russ K2TXB
            Subject: Re: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

            Russ,  

            If my suggestion and explanation don't make sense you have no common sense. I can't explain it any clearer.

            Tim


            From: Russ K2TXB <k2txb@...>
            To: 'ollieoxen27' <ollieoxen27@...>; wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:01 AM
            Subject: RE: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

            Kim, if you listen to the whole qso then you know who is first by what he is sending.  For example if he sends RRR then he was first.  If he sends RO he was second.  Rarely does this get turned around.  If you did not listen to the whole QSO then you don't know who he is anyway so how can you call him?
             
            Of course there are a few beginners who seem to want to send all of the messages rather than alternating as per the protocol.  If you run into one of those then you must have listened to the whole QSO to know who started.
             
            > I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who started the one I'm picking up on.
             
            In that case you do not know who either station is, so you can't call them anyway.  Then you must wait for one of the stations to call CQ, or call QRZ or CQ yourself.
             
            73, Russ
             


            From: Kim Medley [mailto:ollieoxen27@...]
            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:13 AM
            To: k2txb@...
            Subject: Re: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

            Russ,
            Following your suggestions you still don't know who the first caller was. I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who started the one I'm picking up on. Maybe the second station should always use the single tone 73?


            Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android


            From: Russ K2TXB <k2txb@...>;
            To: 'ollieoxen27' <ollieoxen27@...>; <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com>;
            Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
            Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 11:58:22 AM

            The solution is easy.  You need to listen to more than just the 73 and then you can tell easily.  In case single tone 73 is being used (Note 1), there is nothing wrong with calling the station who's frequency it is, during the time the other station is sending 73.  WSJT can easily decode both, and the user can easily see the 73 on the screen.  We do this all the time on EME.  If you wish to call the other station (the one who did not call CQ) then it is advisable to move your TX frequency off a few hundred Hz or so, so as to not interfere with other callers who may be calling the CQ station.
             
            Adding data to the 73 is not desirable as it would drastically reduce the detection sensitivity of the 73 message.
             
            Note 1: Even if the 73 is not being sent via single tone you can call the station by moving your TX frequency far enough to not interfere.  WSJT can easily decode both as long as the operator observes your call and causes JT65 to decode it.
             
            73, Russ K2TXB


            From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ollieoxen27
            Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:53 AM
            To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

             
            It would be nice if when a station sends the 73 message there was a way to tell if the station you are listening to is sending the first 73 or the response 73. Perhaps adding designators after the 73 such as 731 and 732, or 73F and 73S.

            I never know when the station I am about to call has signed off or is waiting for the final response from the last station. It's not always possible to hear both sides of the qso.

            Tim





          • Barry Garratt
            Tim, Sorry I miss spelled your name in my last response. No one said you were newbie or a lid or if they did I didn t see that nor did anyone infer that. I did
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 13, 2012
              Tim,

              Sorry I miss spelled your name in my last response.

              No one said you were newbie or a lid or if they did I didn't see that nor
              did anyone infer that. I did state that it's easy to know who is who by
              looking at the exchange which has both callsigns in it except of course when
              one station is calling CQ. For example:

              CQ KS7DX DM26
              KS7DX W7OUU DN22
              W7OUU KS7DX -10
              KS7DX W7OUU R-12
              W7OUU KS7DX RRR
              KS7DX W7OUU 73
              W7OUU KS7DX 73

              CQ KS7DX DM26

              What is so difficult to understand about that?

              It looks like KS7DX is calling CQ and then W7OUU answers.
              KS7DX sends him his report and W7OUU acknowledges that and sends his report.
              KS7DX send RRR
              W7OUU sends 73
              And KS7DX sends 73

              Then KS7DX calls CQ again.

              So in your own words "Having a way two distinguish between sender and
              resondent would make the mode easier to use and help prevent unintentional
              interference." Please explain to everyone how you think the mode could be
              made easier to distinguish who is sending and who is responding.

              Maybe I'm missing something but seeing both callsigns and what they are
              sending is all I need to know. So again please explain how you would like
              the mode to be changed to make it easier to use.

              Barry


              -----Original Message-----
              From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              ollieoxen27
              Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:52 PM
              To: Barry Garratt
              Subject: Re: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion

              Having a way two distinguish between sender and resondent would make the
              mode easier to use and help prevent unintentional interference.

              By the way I'm not a newbie or a lid thank you.
              If an idea is good it shouldn't matter who knows more or who is what. People
              like that ruin good ham sites. People who know everything is one of the
              reasons there are never any new ideas or suggestions. Hemlock, anyone?

              Tim

              --- In wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Garratt" <bgarratt@...> wrote:
              >
              > Kim,
              >
              >
              >
              > If these are terrestrial QSO's then it's easy to know who is transmitting
              > what because both calls are always shown. Also on HF single tones are
              never
              > used. I guess I shouldn't say never because every now and then some will
              do
              > it but that's not even 1% of the time.
              >
              >
              >
              > If you are talking EME then that of course is a different story entirely.
              >
              >
              >
              > Barry KS7DX
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf
              > Of Russ K2TXB
              > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:01 AM
              > To: 'ollieoxen27'; wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Kim, if you listen to the whole qso then you know who is first by what he
              is
              > sending. For example if he sends RRR then he was first. If he sends RO
              he
              > was second. Rarely does this get turned around. If you did not listen to
              > the whole QSO then you don't know who he is anyway so how can you call
              him?
              >
              >
              >
              > Of course there are a few beginners who seem to want to send all of the
              > messages rather than alternating as per the protocol. If you run into one
              > of those then you must have listened to the whole QSO to know who started.
              >
              >
              >
              > > I may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain
              > who started the one I'm picking up on.
              >
              >
              >
              > In that case you do not know who either station is, so you can't call them
              > anyway. Then you must wait for one of the stations to call CQ, or call
              QRZ
              > or CQ yourself.
              >
              >
              >
              > 73, Russ
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              >
              > From: Kim Medley [mailto:ollieoxen27@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:13 AM
              > To: k2txb@...
              > Subject: Re: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
              >
              >
              > Russ,
              >
              > Following your suggestions you still don't know who the first caller was.
              I
              > may be finishing another qso an even if I wasn't it's still uncertain who
              > started the one I'm picking up on. Maybe the second station should always
              > use the single tone 73?
              >
              >
              >
              > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              >
              > From: Russ K2TXB <k2txb@...>;
              > To: 'ollieoxen27' <ollieoxen27@...>; <wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com>;
              > Subject: RE: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
              > Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 11:58:22 AM
              >
              >
              > The solution is easy. You need to listen to more than just the 73 and
              then
              > you can tell easily. In case single tone 73 is being used (Note 1), there
              > is nothing wrong with calling the station who's frequency it is, during
              the
              > time the other station is sending 73. WSJT can easily decode both, and
              the
              > user can easily see the 73 on the screen. We do this all the time on EME.
              > If you wish to call the other station (the one who did not call CQ) then
              it
              > is advisable to move your TX frequency off a few hundred Hz or so, so as
              to
              > not interfere with other callers who may be calling the CQ station.
              >
              >
              >
              > Adding data to the 73 is not desirable as it would drastically reduce the
              > detection sensitivity of the 73 message.
              >
              >
              >
              > Note 1: Even if the 73 is not being sent via single tone you can call the
              > station by moving your TX frequency far enough to not interfere. WSJT can
              > easily decode both as long as the operator observes your call and causes
              > JT65 to decode it.
              >
              >
              >
              > 73, Russ K2TXB
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              >
              > From: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf
              > Of ollieoxen27
              > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:53 AM
              > To: wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [wsjtgroup] JT65A suggestion
              >
              >
              >
              > It would be nice if when a station sends the 73 message there was a way to
              > tell if the station you are listening to is sending the first 73 or the
              > response 73. Perhaps adding designators after the 73 such as 731 and 732,
              or
              > 73F and 73S.
              >
              > I never know when the station I am about to call has signed off or is
              > waiting for the final response from the last station. It's not always
              > possible to hear both sides of the qso.
              >
              > Tim
              >
            • Facility 406 DM09
              ... Makes sense, we use the same format for voice although callsigns are usually only said once or twice. Kurt
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 13, 2012
                : CQ KS7DX DM26
                : KS7DX W7OUU DN22
                : W7OUU KS7DX -10
                : KS7DX W7OUU R-12
                : W7OUU KS7DX RRR
                : KS7DX W7OUU 73
                : W7OUU KS7DX 73

                Makes sense, we use the same format for voice although callsigns are usually
                only said once or twice.

                Kurt
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