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Re: [wsjtgroup] WSPR 2 issues

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  • Peter Frenning [OZ1PIF]
    Dave Ackrill skrev: g4ilo wrote: There is also an issue you will only notice on little-used bands, where if no stations are spotted, the list of stations
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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      Dave Ackrill skrev:
      g4ilo wrote:
      
        
      There is also an issue you will only notice on little-used bands, where if no stations are spotted, the list of stations previously heard on the right is never updated to change the color and eventually remove them from the list.
          
      Joe, K1JT, confirmed this as 'normal' to me when I mentioned it to him 
      the other day.
      
      WSPR needs another decode of a station before it updates the Band Map. 
      So, stations over 1 hour old will stay on the map if no new decodes have 
      been received.
      
      Dave (G0DJA)
        
      I can also confirm that the Linux version behaves the same way, So normal, but not necessarily ideal behaviour. But certainly a small thing, if you want to clear it click the "Erase" button, and it's gone (along with the content of the decoded window.

      -- 
      Vy 73 de OZ1PIF/5Q2M, Peter
      
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    • Dave Ackrill
      ... Joe, K1JT, did also mention that he might consider changing the system so that the band map was cleared out if no new decodes are received within a certain
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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        Peter Frenning [OZ1PIF] wrote:

        > I can also confirm that the Linux version behaves the same way, So normal, but
        > not necessarily ideal behaviour. But certainly a small thing, if you want to
        > clear it click the "Erase" button, and it's gone (along with the content of the
        > decoded window.

        Joe, K1JT, did also mention that he might consider changing the system
        so that the band map was cleared out if no new decodes are received
        within a certain time frame.

        Once you know that's what it does, it isn't a big problem though.

        Dave (G0DJA)
      • Joe Taylor
        Hi Julian and all, ... 1. Select another band, and then select the original band once more. - OR - 2. Hit F7 and then click Update rig frequency . ... From
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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          Hi Julian and all,

          g4ilo wrote:
          > I noticed a couple of issues with WSPR 2.
          >
          > If a band is already shown as selected in the menu then clicking
          > it again does nothing. This is not helpful if you have changed
          > the rig frequency manually and want to reset it to the correct
          > frequency or if you have just started WSPR 2 and want to use
          > the same band you last used but in the meantime the transceiver
          > has been used on another frequency.

          1. Select another band, and then select the original band
          once more.

          - OR -

          2. Hit F7 and then click "Update rig frequency".

          > There is also an issue you will only notice on little-used bands,
          > where if no stations are spotted, the list of stations previously
          > heard on the right is never updated to change the color and
          > eventually remove them from the list.

          From the WSPR 2.0 User's Guide, page 5:

          "Calls in red have been seen within 15 minutes of the last
          line of decoded text; yellow callsigns are 15-30 minutes
          old, light gray 30-45 minutes, and darker gray 45-60
          minutes. Callsigns more than an hour older than the most
          recent one are removed from the Band Map."

          This is the way WSPR's Band Map has always worked. Arguably
          it might be more logical to "time out" the callsign colors
          relative to actual current time. On the other hand, when a
          band has been dead for several hours it may still be
          interesting to see what stations were being decoded when it
          was still open. I opted for the latter behavior, more than
          a year ago, and never heard any contrary suggestions.

          -- 73, Joe, K1JT
        • Dave Ackrill
          ... Both work on frequency, but not transmission mode on the TS2000(X). Earlier I d nipped off to listen to some beacons on 10GHz via rain scatter and, on
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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            Joe Taylor wrote:

            > 1. Select another band, and then select the original band
            > once more.
            >
            > - OR -
            >
            > 2. Hit F7 and then click "Update rig frequency".
            >

            Both work on frequency, but not transmission mode on the TS2000(X).

            Earlier I'd nipped off to listen to some beacons on 10GHz via rain
            scatter and, on running WSJT again, the frequency changed but the mode
            stayed on 'CW'.

            I also noticed that the 'Force transmission of a 6-digit locator' option
            has to be reselected every time you re-run WSPR.

            Dave (G0DJA)
          • Joe Taylor
            Hi Dave (G0DJA) and all, ... Indeed. As described in the User s Guide, WSPR makes no attempt to set any rig parameters beyond T/R status and frequency. There
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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              Hi Dave (G0DJA) and all,

              >> 1. Select another band, and then select the original band
              >> once more.
              >>
              >> - OR -
              >>
              >> 2. Hit F7 and then click "Update rig frequency".
              >>
              >
              > Both work on frequency, but not transmission mode on the TS2000(X).
              >
              > Earlier I'd nipped off to listen to some beacons on 10GHz via rain
              > scatter and, on running WSJT again, the frequency changed but the mode
              > stayed on 'CW'.

              Indeed. As described in the User's Guide, WSPR makes no
              attempt to set any rig parameters beyond T/R status and
              frequency. There is no plan for WSPR to replace the
              operator. :-)

              > I also noticed that the 'Force transmission of a 6-digit locator' option
              > has to be reselected every time you re-run WSPR.

              This behavior, too, is intentional. If 6-digit locators are
              used because of a compound callsign, WSPR remembers the
              necessary information on program restart. If 6-digit
              locators were forced while using a normal callsign, you must
              re-select "Force transmission of 6-digit locator" after
              program restart. This behavior helps to emphasize that such
              use is discouraged unless you really need 6-digit position
              accuracy.

              -- 73, Joe, K1JT
            • Dave Ackrill
              ... I wasn t saying it should, just warning people that the CAT commands in WSPR don t do what many dedicated CAT control systems do... In fact, the emphasis
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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                Joe Taylor wrote:

                > Indeed. As described in the User's Guide, WSPR makes no
                > attempt to set any rig parameters beyond T/R status and
                > frequency. There is no plan for WSPR to replace the
                > operator. :-)
                >

                I wasn't saying it should, just warning people that the CAT commands in
                WSPR don't do what many dedicated CAT control systems do...

                In fact, the emphasis in most of the CAT control forums tends towards
                people wanting the CAT control to detect when a DX station appears on
                the DXCluster, change frequency and mode and then turn the rotator
                towards the DX station, work it, print the QSL and/or send it to LoTW
                and receive the reply then update their 'worked' score online.

                There was a skit published in a UK magazine where the story went that
                someone won the Football (Soccer) pools, this was written before the
                Lottery came to the UK, and set up a station to do just this and spent
                the time saved going out socialising instead. Soon you may not need to
                win the pools/lottery. ;-)

                Dave (G0DJA)
              • Dave Ackrill
                ... Personally, I think the Map system on http://wsprnet.org shows why, even on HF, 6 digits are the minimum required. It uses the 6 digit locator provided by
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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                  Joe Taylor wrote:

                  > program restart. This behavior helps to emphasize that such
                  > use is discouraged unless you really need 6-digit position
                  > accuracy.

                  Personally, I think the Map system on http://wsprnet.org shows why, even
                  on HF, 6 digits are the minimum required. It uses the 6 digit locator
                  provided by each user to locate them and you can see that, in some
                  squares, there can be more than one operator active.

                  For instance, G4MBN and I are in IO93, but he's near Sheffield and I'm
                  further south between Worksop and Nottingham. When I lived up near
                  Leeds, in a place called Wakefield about 30 miles north of here, I was
                  still in IO93. There are a number of conurbations between here and
                  Leeds, which is also in IO93, in which are located quite a number of
                  stations.

                  Also, if you look round the world at other four digit squares, some are
                  larger than IO93... The problem with just a 4 digit locator is that
                  there can be significant topographic differences across a 4 digit
                  square. If you look to the east of me, and just to the south of G4MBN,
                  there is a large range of hills. Anyone on top of those might be a
                  better signal on 10M or even 15M than someone down in the valley near
                  Huddersfield, but they all could be, just about, in the same IO93 square.

                  In fact, on the upper UHF and the SHF bands people have already moved to
                  8 digit locators, finding that 6 digits locators are just not good enough.

                  Dave (G0DJA)
                • Joe Taylor
                  Hi Dave and all, ... If you need 6-digit accuracy, then use it. That s why it s there. The vast majority of WSPR usage does not require 6-digit locators to be
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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                    Hi Dave and all,

                    G0DJA wrote:

                    >> This behavior helps to emphasize that such use [of 6-digit
                    >> locators] is discouraged unless you really need 6-digit position
                    >> accuracy.
                    >
                    > Personally, I think the Map system on http://wsprnet.org shows why, even
                    > on HF, 6 digits are the minimum required.

                    If you need 6-digit accuracy, then use it. That's why it's
                    there.

                    The vast majority of WSPR usage does not require 6-digit
                    locators to be included in the transmission. The WSPRnet
                    mapping facility knows and uses your 6-digit locator anyway.
                    For reasons of improved sensitivity, the basic message
                    with 4-digit locators is always preferred for normal use.

                    > In fact, on the upper UHF and the SHF bands people have already moved to
                    > 8 digit locators, finding that 6 digits locators are just not good enough.

                    The WSPR protocol is designed for LF, MF, and HF use. It is
                    marginally useful on the VHF bands, although aircraft
                    reflections can be a significant problem. The WSPR mode is
                    not generally useful for tropospheric propagation on our UHF
                    or SHF bands.

                    -- Joe, K1JT
                  • Dave Ackrill
                    ... Point taken Joe, I ve seen the problems with Aircraft Reflections on 6M and I guess 23cm would be even worse, even if you could get a reliable 2 minute
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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                      Joe Taylor wrote:

                      > The WSPR protocol is designed for LF, MF, and HF use. It is
                      > marginally useful on the VHF bands, although aircraft
                      > reflections can be a significant problem. The WSPR mode is
                      > not generally useful for tropospheric propagation on our UHF
                      > or SHF bands.
                      >

                      Point taken Joe,

                      I've seen the problems with Aircraft Reflections on 6M and I guess 23cm
                      would be even worse, even if you could get a reliable 2 minute 'window'
                      on that band for WSPR anyway.

                      However, even on LF/MW and HF accurate location is important. Even back
                      in the ZN41j (yes, that was my old locator down in Birmingham) days you
                      still sent your address on the QSL card, so that people could pinpoint
                      where you where.

                      The IARU locator system took out the replication of squares problem.

                      I still am of the opinion that 6-digits are the minimum requirement for
                      HF work and, strangely, more important on LF where people are widely
                      dispersed, so knowing to greater precision where people are located is
                      needed.

                      Dave (G0DJA)
                    • Bruce Walker
                      ... Also, please be aware that if you put a 6-char locator in your station info in the WSPR program, that full location information is still sent to the web
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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                        On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Dave Ackrill <dave.g0dja@...> wrote:

                        > Personally, I think the Map system on http://wsprnet.org shows why, even
                        > on HF, 6 digits are the minimum required. It uses the 6 digit locator
                        > provided by each user to locate them and you can see that, in some
                        > squares, there can be more than one operator active.
                        >

                        Also, please be aware that if you put a 6-char locator in your station
                        info in the WSPR program, that full location information is still sent
                        to the web site along with all your spots and station status even if
                        you are not transmitting the special new on-air 6-char format. We've
                        been getting the 6-char locator resolution for the last 18 months or
                        so for most stations this way. Always put in the 6-digit grid, but
                        only transmit it in the special format if you need to (there may be
                        reasons, such as portable/mobile operation, or multiple station QTHs
                        on air at the same time, with which we've always had a hard time
                        dealing).

                        --bruce W1BW
                      • k0og
                        Joe, Thanks for the new version of WSPR - I like the upgrade - especially the CAT control! One minor point relevant to changing bands: I was on 40m this
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 25, 2009
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                          Joe,

                          Thanks for the new version of WSPR - I like the upgrade - especially the CAT control!

                          One minor point relevant to changing bands: I was on 40m this morning and in the middle of a cycle changed from 40m to 10m and all went well. However, when I looked at the online database, I saw that a station (VE3FAL) which was actually on 40m was logged as a 10m observation by my station.

                          So, I suggest that when the band is changed, somehow you should prevent uploads from any data in the current cycle to preclude erroneous data.

                          ...And NO I did NOT observe VE3FAL on 10m this morning! False alarm! Hopefully it will open a bit later today - I'll leave my station parked there to see what happens.

                          73,
                          -Joe-

                          --- In wsjtgroup@yahoogroups.com, Joe Taylor <joe@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Julian and all,
                          >
                          > g4ilo wrote:
                          > > I noticed a couple of issues with WSPR 2.
                          > >
                          > > If a band is already shown as selected in the menu then clicking
                          > > it again does nothing. This is not helpful if you have changed
                          > > the rig frequency manually and want to reset it to the correct
                          > > frequency or if you have just started WSPR 2 and want to use
                          > > the same band you last used but in the meantime the transceiver
                          > > has been used on another frequency.
                          >
                          > 1. Select another band, and then select the original band
                          > once more.
                          >
                          > - OR -
                          >
                          > 2. Hit F7 and then click "Update rig frequency".
                          >
                          > > There is also an issue you will only notice on little-used bands,
                          > > where if no stations are spotted, the list of stations previously
                          > > heard on the right is never updated to change the color and
                          > > eventually remove them from the list.
                          >
                          > From the WSPR 2.0 User's Guide, page 5:
                          >
                          > "Calls in red have been seen within 15 minutes of the last
                          > line of decoded text; yellow callsigns are 15-30 minutes
                          > old, light gray 30-45 minutes, and darker gray 45-60
                          > minutes. Callsigns more than an hour older than the most
                          > recent one are removed from the Band Map."
                          >
                          > This is the way WSPR's Band Map has always worked. Arguably
                          > it might be more logical to "time out" the callsign colors
                          > relative to actual current time. On the other hand, when a
                          > band has been dead for several hours it may still be
                          > interesting to see what stations were being decoded when it
                          > was still open. I opted for the latter behavior, more than
                          > a year ago, and never heard any contrary suggestions.
                          >
                          > -- 73, Joe, K1JT
                          >
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